[00:00:30]
[1. CALL MEETING TO ORDER]
AND OF COURSE, I'LL PUT MY ACCOUNT AWAY.I WILL CALL THE APRIL 13TH, 2026 REGULAR MEETING OF THE MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP PLANNING COMMISSION TO ORDER AND WE WILL GO THROUGH ROLL CALL.
COMMISSIONER SHUESBERRY? PRESENT.
AND COMMISSIONER MCCONNELL? YOU'RE HERE.
AND THE CHAIR IS HERE, SO WE HAVE A FULL BOARD TODAY.
AND AT THIS MOMENT, I CAN MOVE TO ITEM THREE ON OUR AGENDA, WHICH IS POLICY.
MR. SHIRKY, DO WE HAVE ANY REMARKS? THERE ARE NO REMARKS.
[4. APPROVAL OF AGENDA]
THERE ARE NO REMARKS.WITH THAT, I WILL MOVE TO ITEM FOUR ON THE AGENDA, WHICH IS APPROVAL OF TODAY'S AGENDA.
DO WE HAVE ANY ADDITIONS, DELETIONS, OR AMENDMENTS TO THE APRIL 13, 2026 AGENDA? WE DO NOT.
HEARING NONE, I WOULD MOVE FOR A...
UH MOVE FOR OR IT ASKS FOR APPROVAL OF TODAY'S AGENDA SO MOVE SECOND SO MOVED BY COMMISSIONER MCCONNELL SECONDED BY VICE CHAIR MCCURTIS UH ALSO NOTE COMMISSIONER NAHUM WAS ALSO WILLING TO DO SO UM ALL IN FAVOR AYE AYE ANY OPPOSED VERY WELL WE WILL CONSIDER TODAY'S AGENDA APPROVED AND
[5. APPROVAL OF MINUTES]
WITH THAT WE WILL MOVE TO APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM THE MARCH 23RD 2026 MEETING ITEM 5 IN THE AGENDA ARE THERE ANY AMENDMENTS CHANGES DELETIONS TO THE MINUTES FROM OUR MARCH 23RD, 2026 MEETING.OKAY, HEARING NONE, I WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM THE MARCH 23RD AGENDA.
MOVED BY VICE CHAIRMAN CURTIS.
SECOND FROM COMMISSIONER SHUESBURY.
OPPOSED? AND THE MINUTES ARE APPROVED.
[6. COMMUNICATIONS]
WITH THAT, WE'LL MOVE TO NUMBER SIX.THERE IS A COMMUNICATIONS FROM BEN. I'M GOING TO GO WITH UGARHIDE.
REGARDING THE ZONING AMENDMENT 26002 THAT IS IN YOUR PACKET, AND THEN I HANDED OUT AN EMAIL FROM A RESIDENT ALSO ABOUT ZONING AMENDMENT NUMBER 26002.
I WILL NOTE THERE'S AN EMAIL HERE FROM NANCY, NANCY7654 AT GMAIL.COM, WHICH WE'VE BEEN HANDED.
CAN I ASK A QUESTION ABOUT THAT? COMMISSIONER BROOKS.
FOR WHEN WE GET COMMUNICATIONS, SO WHEN SOMEBODY COMES...
BEFORE THE COMMISSION MAKE A PUBLIC COMMENT, THEY USUALLY HAVE TO SAY THEIR NAME AND ADDRESS AT THE PODIUM.
SO IN EMAIL COMMUNICATION, IS THAT ALSO REQUIRED TO BE CONSIDERED AN OFFICIAL COMMENT? NO.
SO WE COULD GET AN EMAIL? I SAVE ALL THE EMAILS THAT I GET ON EVERYTHING.
I KEEP THEM ALL IN THE APPROPRIATE FOLDER.
AND I DON'T THINK THEY'RE REQUIRED TO GIVE THEIR NAME AND ADDRESS.
IT'S JUST WE ASK THEM TO DO SO.
I'M JUST CURIOUS ABOUT THE DIFFERENCES.
NO, IT'S A GOOD QUESTION, BUT NO, I KEEP ALL EMAILS.
THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE, BECAUSE YOU ARE FOIA-ABLE.
ANYTHING FURTHER ON COMMUNICATIONS ITEM SIX ON THE AGENDA? THERE IS NOT.
WE'LL JUST NOTE THAT WE HAVE THE TWO EMAILS NOTED,
[7.A. SUP #26007 – Tailgaters]
AND THEN WE CAN MOVE ON TO PUBLIC HEARINGS.THE FIRST BEING SUP 26007, TAILGATERS, SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
DOES THIS ONE WORK BETTER? YES.
SPECIAL USE PERMIT NUMBER 26007, TAILGATERS.
TO CONSTRUCT A TAILGATERS GAS STATION AND CONVENIENCE STORE SHOULD ALSO SAY A DRIVE-THRU AT 1614 AND 1622 GRAND RIVER AVENUE AND A VACANT PARCEL ON CENTRAL PARK DRIVE.
NOT A LOT TO SAY ON THE FIRST PAGE.
DIMENSIONALLY, DIMENSIONAL REGULATIONS, NOT A PROBLEM WITH IT.
SO WE ARE MAKING A MOVE TOWARD DIGITAL SUBMITTALS.
[00:05:02]
SO THE SITE PLAN THAT CAME WITH THE APPLICATION THAT YOU HAVE IN YOUR PACKET IS THE SECOND VERSION OF IT AND NOT THE MOST RECENT VERSION OF IT.THE 11 BY 17 IN FRONT OF YOU IS THE CURRENT SITE PLAN AND THE ONE THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE PACKET, IT WAS MISLABELED IN THE FOLDER.
IT IS PART OF THE LEARNING CURVE OF MOVING TO DIGITAL FILES.
STAFF APOLOGIZES FOR ANY CONFUSION.
BUT THE UPSHOT OF IT IS THEIR PARKING DOES COMPLY WITH OUR WITH ON THE CURRENT PLAN.
IT COMPLIES WITH ALL OUR ORDINANCES.
THERE IS ONE SMALL THING THAT STAFF HAS NOTED IN THE UPDATE TO THE LATEST AND GREATEST SITE PLAN.
THEY DIDN'T UPDATE THEIR BIKE PARKING.
I'VE HAD A CONVERSATION WITH THE APPLICANT.
THEY'RE GOING TO GIVE US TWO MORE BIKE PARKING SPACES.
THEY DO NOT HAVE TO REQUEST A VARIANCE FOR PARKING.
HOWEVER, THE STANDARDS FOR GAS STATIONS IN THE C2 ZONE STATE THAT YOU CAN HAVE NO MORE THAN 10 VEHICLE FUELING STATIONS.
NOW, A VEHICLE FUELING STATION IS NOT THE PUMP.
A PUMP HAS TWO STATIONS BY DEFINITION IN THE ORDINANCE.
FOR THIS SITE PLAN TO GO THROUGH AS PROPOSED, THEY'LL HAVE TO CONCURRENTLY, IF THEY GET THE SITE PLAN APPROVAL, THEY'LL HAVE TO CONCURRENTLY APPLY FOR A ZONING VARIANCE.
FOR THE SIX EXTRA FUELING STATIONS.
SO ANY RESOLUTION OF APPROVAL THAT MIGHT HAPPEN, THAT'LL BE A CONDITION OF APPROVAL.
OTHER THAN THAT, STAFF POINTS OUT THEY DID SUBMIT A TRAFFIC STUDY.
THE STUDY WILL HAVE TO BE APPROVED BY BOTH THE INGHAM COUNTY ROAD DEPARTMENT AND BY MICHIGAN DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION.
THE STUDY DOES HAVE A SERIES OF SUGGESTIONS.
THOSE ARE SHOWN ON THE SITE PLAN.
OTHER THAN THAT, STAFF REALLY HAS NO COMMENT.
WE'VE BEEN TALKING TO THE APPLICANT FOR A WHILE.
THEY'VE HEARD ALL OF THE, THEY'VE TAKEN OUR SUGGESTIONS.
THE PLAN IS, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER ENVIRONMENTALLY SENSITIVE AREAS OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY THERE ARE, THEY'RE WORKING AROUND THEM, THEY'RE FOLLOWING OUR ORDINANCES.
THEY JUST NEED THE ONE VARIANCE AND THE TWO PARKING SPACES.
THEY ARE REPRESENTED, AND I CAN ANSWER QUESTIONS, OR YOU CAN HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT.
QUESTIONS FOR MR. SHORKEY? IS THIS THE SAME PARCEL THAT WE HAD PREVIOUSLY LOOKED AT FOR A POTENTIAL STORAGE UNIT FACILITY? YES, IT IS, AND A MARIJUANA DISPENSARY.
UM, CAN YOU PULL UP THE LOCATION AND LIKE THE PARCEL HERE? I JUST WANT TO SEE WHERE THE CLOSEST RESIDENCES ARE.
I SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF THAT.
IF YOU'LL GIVE ME A MOMENT, I'M GOING TO SHUT SOME OF THIS STUFF OFF.
THANKS TRAINS AND LOCAL ROADS IT IS YEAH, YEAH BECAUSE IT COMES OUT ON CENTRAL PARK DRIVE, THANK YOU IT'S THIS PIECE AND THESE TWO PIECES SO ON THE SITE PLAN HOLD ON THE SITE PLAN IS ORIENTED WITH NORTH TO THE LEFT, SO IF YOU TURN IT SIDEWAYS, THE DETENTION AREA IS SHOWN AS PROPOSED ON THIS, SO THEY'RE NOT PROPOSING ANY DEVELOPMENT UP HERE OFF OF CENTRAL PARK DRIVE.
THEY DO HAVE A DRIVE COMING OUT HERE, AND THAT'S WHY THE INGHAM COUNTY ROAD DEPARTMENT WILL HAVE TO GET INVOLVED.
THEY DO SHOW AN INGRESS-INGRESS ON CENTRAL PARK DRIVE.
THE DEVELOPMENT, THE THE CONVENIENCE STORE, GAS STATION, ETC.
COMES UP IN THIS AREA HERE, SO YOU DON'T SEE ANY DEVELOPMENT HERE IN JUST KIND OF THE GENERAL OVERVIEW.
ON THE PLAN THAT WE HAVE HERE AT APPEARS TO CONNECT TO THE STREET AT THE NORTH SIDE WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
[00:10:02]
SAY THAT ONE MORE TIME.LIKE, IF YOU TURN IT THIS WAY, WHERE IT SAYS EVERWOOD LANE PRIVATE, IS THAT GOING TO CONNECT TO THIS LITTLE STUB HERE? I'M GOING TO, THEY, MY UNDERSTANDING, AND I'LL LET THEM TALK ABOUT THIS, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THEY'VE APPROACHED GRAND RESERVE ABOUT MAKING THAT CONNECTION.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S SET IN STONE YET AT ALL.
THEY CAN ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT WHERE THEY STAND ON THAT.
AND IT'S NOT A CONNECTION THAT THE TOWNSHIP'S REQUIRING, IT'S ONE THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING.
SO IT'S NOT REQUIRED FOR PUBLIC SAFETY? IT'S NOT, NO.
THEY HAVE TWO INS AND OUTS ON THE SITE.
LOOKS LIKE THERE'S ALSO ANOTHER STUB ON THE NORTHWEST, OR IS THAT LIKE A TURNAROUND THING? WE CAN HEAR FROM THE OUTSKIRTS, I'M SORRY.
YES, THAT'S NOT GOING TO GO IN SOME PLACE.
I HAVEN'T HEARD OF ANY OTHER DEVELOPMENT PROPOSAL GOING IN THAT DIRECTION, BUT IT'S SIMPLY JUST A POTENTIAL TURNAROUND FOR EMERGENCY VEHICLES, I ASSUME.
APOLOGIES FOR MY INTERRUPTION.
ARE THE NEIGHBORS INFORMED? LIKE THE 300 FEET? OF COURSE THEY ARE.
THEY ARE? OKAY, SO THE FACT THAT THEY AREN'T HERE MEANS THEY WERE INFORMED.
PUBLIC NOTIFICATION LAWS APPLY.
IN THE CASE OF GRAND RESERVE, IT IS TECHNICALLY ONE BIG PARCEL, I WILL SAY THIS.
THEY DID RECEIVE A COPY OF THE LEGAL NOTICE AND WAS TOLD TO HANG IT UP IN THEIR OFFICE.
AND THAT'S STANDARD PROCEDURE FOR APARTMENT COMPLEXES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO ADDITIONAL GAS PUMPING STATIONS, I KNOW YOU SAID THAT WOULD REQUIRE A VARIANCE.
IS THERE ANY CONCERN ABOUT THAT, GIVEN THE AMOUNT OF ADDITIONAL? BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IS WHAT IS ZONED FOR, WHAT, YOU SAID EIGHT? TEN.
THE ZONING CATEGORY C2 ALLOWS UP TO TEN FUELING STATIONS, FIVE PUMPS.
WE'LL JUST TALK IN TERMS OF PUMPS.
THERE'S NO CONCERN FROM IT FROM A ZONING PERSPECTIVE, AND THEIR TRAFFIC ASSESSMENT HAS TAKEN THAT INTO ACCOUNT WHEN THEY'VE LOOKED AT POTENTIAL TRAFFIC ON THE SITE.
I MEAN, IT'S ZONED FOR FIVE PUMPS, BUT THEY WANT AN ADDITIONAL...
AND BY DEFINITION, THAT'S SIX ADDITIONAL FUEL STATIONS.
BECAUSE EACH PUMP HAS TWO STATIONS.
THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT.
MY SECOND QUESTION WAS ABOUT THE TRAFFIC.
BECAUSE OF THE ADDITIONAL FUELING STATIONS AND IT'S COMING OFF GRAND RIVER JUST LIKE SPEEDWAY DOES.
BUT JUST WHAT DOES THE, HAS THE TRAFFIC ASSESSMENT BEEN DONE AND WHAT, YOU KNOW? YES, IT HAS.
AND THOSE KIND OF, THOSE ARE NOT PACKAGED.
IT MAKES THE RECOMMENDATIONS, AS BULLET POINTED IN MY MEMO HERE, THESE ARE SHOWN ON THE PLAN.
SO ON GRAND RIVER SPECIFICALLY, THEY HAVE A RIGHT IN, THEY'RE PROPOSING A RIGHT IN, RIGHT OUT.
I WOULDN'T WANT TO TRY TO MAKE A LEFT TURN OUT OF THAT.
COMMISSIONER NEAL? ANOTHER QUESTION.
SO ARE WE SUPPOSED TO BE EVALUATING THE SITE PLAN WITH THE EXPECTATION THAT THEY WILL GET THIS VARIANCE, OR ARE WE SUPPOSED TO BE EVALUATING IT? UNDER THE...
NO, GO AHEAD AND EVALUATE THE SITE PLAN.
SO THE SITE PLAN AS IS, AS BEFORE.
MR. SHORKEY, CAN YOU, BECAUSE WE'VE DONE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT KINDS OF THINGS THAT WERE LIKE SPECIAL USE PERMIT RECENTLY, BUT WEREN'T EXACTLY A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, I FEEL LIKE, CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH WHY IS THIS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT RATHER THAN SOMETHING ELSE? WE'RE JUST NOT EVEN REQUIRING A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
WE REQUIRE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR GAS STATIONS IN THE C2 DISTRICT, AND WE REQUIRE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR ALL DRIVE-THRUS IN THE TOWNSHIP.
SO THEN, SO IF, SO SINCE THIS LOOKS LIKE THREE PARCELS.
IF IT WASN'T A GAS STATION OR WASN'T A DRIVE-THRU, THEN THERE COULD BE THIS BUILDING THAT WOULD TAKE UP, THAT WOULD GO ACROSS ALL THREE PARCELS.
YEAH, WE'D PROBABLY REQUIRE THEM TO COMBINE THE PARCELS AS PART OF THE SITE PLAN APPROVAL.
WE'VE DONE THAT WITH OTHER PEOPLE.
[00:15:01]
TO, BUT I LEAVE THAT UP TO THEM.I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.
TYPICALLY, IN A MULTI-PARCEL, LIKE GRAND RESERVE IS A GOOD EXAMPLE, RIGHT? THEY HAD TO JOIN THOSE PARCELS TOGETHER, AND THAT'S ONE BIG PARCEL NOW.
DOES THE PLANNING COMMISSION, I JUST, I'M SORRY, THIS IS A BASIC QUESTION.
DOES THE PLANNING COMMISSION GET INVOLVED WHEN? MULTIPLE PARCELS HAVE TO BE JOINED? NO, THAT'S A LAND COMBINATION.
THAT'S AN ADMINISTRATIVE FUNCTION.
I JUST CAN'T REMEMBER IF WE'D EVER DONE THAT OR IF I HAD DONE THAT.
WAS THERE ANY CONSIDERATION REGARDING THE PARKING IN HERE AND THE POSSIBILITY OF THE ORDINANCE CHANGES THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY LOOKING AT? I LOOKED AT THE CHANGES.
SO WE'RE NOT PROPOSING ANY CHANGES TO THE PARKING STANDARDS.
WE ALREADY DID THAT LAST YEAR.
SO THE PARKING NUMBERS ARE THE CURRENT PARKING NUMBERS.
AS FAR AS THE PARKING LAYOUT, I DON'T SEE ANY PROBLEMS IN TERMS OF ANY OF THE PROPOSED CHANGES.
EVEN FOR LIKE THE BUFFER ZONES? YEP.
WOULD HATE TO CREATE A NONCONFORMITY ON THIS.
I THOUGHT I WAS JUST TRYING TO, LIKE, JUST SAYING.
I THINK I KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS, BUT WHEN WE SEE THE RIGHT TERM TAPER, I MEAN IT'S JUST CUT IN A WAY WHERE YOU CAN ONLY, TO PREVENT FOLKS FROM DOING THIS LEFT TERM THING.
IT KIND OF CUTS TO THE RIGHT SO THAT YOU CAN GET OVER AND THEN OUT OF THE MAIN LINE OF TRAFFIC.
SO THE EXIT THOUGH, BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE A NO LEFT TURN SIGN.
RIGHT NOW, LIKE WHERE BANK OF AMERICA IS, YOU CAN ONLY TURN HERE I CAN SHOW YOU THE WAY THAT IS CUT EVEN THOUGH I SEE PEOPLE WHO GO BACK SOMETIMES.
IT MIGHT BE ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE AND WE DON'T WANT TO BE JUDGED.
THIS DOESN'T HAVE IT AS CLEARLY DELINEATED AS THE PLAN IN FRONT OF YOU, BUT THE BASIC IDEA, YOU HAVE THIS TAPER HERE GOING IN HERE, THIS WOULD BE A RIGHT TURN IN, AND THEN THE RIGHT TURN OUT WOULD, YOU'D.
YOU'D HAVE TO GET IN, I THINK, YEAH, YOU'D HAVE TO GET INTO THE TRAFFIC.
BUT, I MEAN, THAT'S A CONFIGURATION THAT WE SEE AROUND THE TOWNSHIP IN PLACES.
COMMISSIONER BROOKS? WAS THERE ANY DISCUSSION ABOUT NOT HAVING ANY ENTRYWAY OFF OF GRAND RIVER? NO.
THEY'RE JUST WIDENING IT AND UTILIZING IT.
OKAY, SO IT'S NOT, THERE'S NO ADDITIONAL CURB CUT.
IT'S HAPPENING ACROSS ALL THE TWO PARTIALS THAT ARE ON THE SOUTH SIDE.
THEY'RE KEEPING THEIR ACCESS IN THE SAME LOCATION.
WHY? ACTUALLY, MAYBE THEY'RE NOT.
IT WOULD HAVE GONE TO THIS HOUSE THAT IS SHOWN ON OUR PARCEL VIEWER THAT'S SINCE BEEN DEMOLISHED.
YOU KNOW WHAT? RATHER THAN GUESSING, GIVE ME A SECOND.
COME ON UP AND INTRODUCE YOURSELF.
THEY'RE GOING TO ASK QUESTIONS OF YOU ANYWAY.
I'M FROM TAILGATERS, 1622 WEST GRAND RIVER.
TO CLEAR THIS UP, I BELIEVE THERE'S TWO CURRENT CURB CUTS, AND WE'RE PROPOSING TO GO DOWN TO ONE.
SO FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES, YOU'D BE SHARING WITH BANK OF AMERICA? NO, NO.
THAT'S A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SITE.
SO THERE'S THE TWO OLD HOMES THAT WERE DEMOLISHED ON THE SITE.
THERE WAS, EACH ONE OF THOSE WAS SERVICED BY ITS OWN DRIVE.
[00:20:01]
OH, OKAY.IS THERE THE POSSIBILITY THAT WE WOULD JUST CONSOLIDATE THE CURB CUTS? I MEAN, SO IN THIS DRAWING HERE, THE PAPER ONE, THERE'S ALREADY TWO CURB CUTS.
WE'RE GOING TO REPLACE THE ONE ON THE LEFT WITH A BIGGER ONE, BUT THERE'S ALREADY ONE JUST TO THE WEST OF THAT ON THE OTHER PARCEL.
BUT IT'S STILL JUST A MAIN ENTRANCE TO A C2 SPACE.
SO IS THERE ANY WAY THAT WE CAN JUST HAVE USED THAT AND SO WE DON'T HAVE MULTIPLE CURB CUTS IN THAT SAME AREA? YOU DON'T HAVE MULTIPLE CURB CUTS.
THEY'RE GOING FROM TWO TO ONE.
I'M SAYING IF WE THINK ABOUT THIS AS A COLLECTIVE AREA, IT'S NOT.
OH, YOU MEAN LIKE WITH BANK OF AMERICA, ETC.? WE CAN'T MAKE THEM CONNECT.
WE CAN'T FORCE AN ACCESS EASEMENT ON AN ADJACENT PROPERTY.
YEAH, I'M NOT PROPOSING THAT, THAT WE CAN FORCE ANYONE.
BUT I DON'T, I MEAN, WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT THE TRAFFIC, AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT HOW THERE'S GOING TO BE MORE TRAFFIC, AND THERE'S GOING TO BE REQUIREMENTS FOR PEOPLE TO TURN OFF AND ON INTO THIS DEVELOPED SPACE.
THERE'S ALREADY A DEVELOPED SPACE RIGHT NEXT TO IT.
WHY DO WE NEED TWO ENTRY POINTS TO COMMERCIAL AREA? I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION.
SO YOU'VE GOT THIS ACCESS HERE THAT GOES TO THIS SITE.
YOU'VE GOT THIS ACCESS THAT GOES TO THE SPARROW.
THERE ARE TWO DRIVES ON THE PROPERTY RIGHT NOW.
THINK OF IT AS ONE PROPERTY, ALTHOUGH IT'S JUST TWO PARCELS.
THEY'RE PROPOSING TO TAKE TWO.
DRIVES AND MAKE ONE OUT OF IT, ALBEIT A LARGER COMMERCIAL.
WE CAN'T FORCE INTERCONNECTIVITY BETWEEN PRIVATE LANDOWNERS.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN.
IT LOOKS LIKE THEY HAVE A ROAD CONNECTING THE TWO PARKING LOTS, IF I'M READING THE SITE LINE CORRECTLY.
THEY HAVE A PROPOSED ROAD THAT WOULD CONNECT THE TWO.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN? NO, I BELIEVE THAT WAS REQUIRED BY THE TOWNSHIP, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN.
BUT WE CERTAINLY DON'T NEED IT.
IS THERE NOT AN ORDINANCE THAT CALLS FOR IT? I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK TO SEE.
THAT MIGHT BE A REQUIREMENT OF THE CORRIDOR IMPROVEMENT.
THERE'S A CORRIDOR IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY DISTRICT.
THAT'S GOING ON HERE HAS TO DO WITH ACCESS, BUT THEY STILL NEED THEIR OWN ENTRANCE.
I MEAN, A LITTLE FOLLOW-UP ON THIS IS MDOT, I'VE WORKED EXTENSIVELY WITH MDOT OVER THE LAST YEAR AS WE'VE LOOKED AT THIS SITE.
THEY'RE WELL AWARE OF THE TRAFFIC STUDY.
THE WAY THE THE APPROACH IS DESIGNED RIGHT NOW WAS RIGHT OUT OF MDOT'S BOOK.
THEY SENT ME A BOOK OF DESIGNS AND SAID, USE THIS DESIGN.
AND I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT AS WELL.
AND I'M TRYING TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX SLIGHTLY HERE AND SAYING THAT ONE OF THE UNDERLYING GOALS IS TO REDUCE CURB CUTS.
AND BECAUSE THE MORE CURB CUTS WE HAVE, THEN THE MORE ENTRY POINTS THERE ARE, WHERE THERE'S MORE PEOPLE SLOWING DOWN ON GRAND RIVER, WHERE YOU'RE GOING OVER 45.
SO IF THERE'S A PLACE THAT'S GETTING READY TO BE DEVELOPED, AND THERE'S ALMOST NO DEVELOPMENT ON IT, AND THERE IS ALREADY A CURB CUT, THAT ACCORDING TO THIS DESIGN, IT CAN'T BE...
WELL, I DON'T KNOW HOW FAR AWAY IT IS.
IT MAY BE 20 FEET AWAY ON THE WEST SIDE.
I DON'T REALLY SEE WHY THERE COULDN'T BE A POSSIBILITY OF A SHARED ENTRYWAY INTO THESE AREAS.
WE CAN'T MAKE BANK OF AMERICA SHARE THEIR ENTRANCE.
THEY'RE REQUIRED TO HAVE THEIR OWN ENTRANCE.
I UNDERSTAND WE CAN'T MAKE THEM DO IT.
SO I'M THROWING THIS OUT THERE.
AND THE PUBLIC HEARING AS A POSSIBILITY.
[00:25:08]
IN THE MEANTIME, I THINK, COMMISSIONER MCCONNELL, YOU'VE BEEN WAITING.I FEEL REALLY PICKY NOW THAT I'VE FOCUSED MY EYES ENOUGH TO SEE THAT THAT'S A CONCRETE PATHWAY RUNNING VERY FAINTLY THROUGH THE DRAWING.
PATHWAY IS SHOWN ON THE PLAN THANK YOU WE SHOW A PATHWAY FROM THE GRAND RESERVE AS WELL AS FROM GRAND RIVER AS WELL WE LOVE SIDEWALKS I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR YOU EXPLAIN CIRCULATION ON THIS SITE IS THAT SOMETHING WE CAN MOVE TO YES I WILL SAY AND WHATEVER ELSE YOU'D LIKE TO YEAH PERFECT A LITTLE HISTORY ABOUT ME IS I OPERATE THE OTHER FOUR TAILGATERS IN THE LANSING AREA WE'VE GOT A FIFTH ONE UNDER CONSTRUCTION HERE IN WILLIAMSTON I'VE BEEN IN THE BUSINESS FOR 26 YEARS NOW I STARTED IN HIGH SCHOOL, GREW UP HERE IN MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP, LIVED THE FIRST 32 YEARS HERE IN MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP.
I'VE ALWAYS LOVED THIS COMMUNITY, ALWAYS WISHED TO HAVE A STORE SOMEWHERE IN HERE, AND THIS LOOKS LIKE A GREAT OPPORTUNITY HERE.
SO YOUR QUESTION ABOUT THE CIRCULATION OF THE SITE, THIS SITE IS VERY, VERY SIMILAR TO THE LAST TWO SITES THAT WE'VE DONE.
THE BUILDING SIZE IS GOING TO BE JUST UNDER 10,000 SQUARE FEET AGAIN, I THINK 9,800.
SAME NUMBER OF FUELING STATIONS AS THE LAST TWO THAT WE'VE DONE.
SO THE DELTA TOWNSHIP PROJECT THAT OPENED IN 2025 ALSO HAD THE 16 FUELING STATIONS.
AND THEN SAME WITH THE ONE IN WILLIAMSTON.
THAT ONE'S ALSO BEING BUILT RIGHT NOW WITH 16 FUELING STATIONS.
THAT'S WHAT HELPS MAKE THE SITE ECONOMICALLY VIABLE FOR US.
ANYTHING LESS THAN THAT AND IT WOULD BECOME COST PROHIBITIVE.
THE COST OF BUILDING NOWADAYS IS...
I MEAN, YOU PROBABLY KNOW IT'S EXTREME, SO THAT JUST ADDS TO THE BOTTOM LINE FOR US.
I'M ALSO SUPER CURIOUS ABOUT THE BUSINESS ITSELF.
WHEN I HEAR DRIVE-THRU, WHAT SORTS OF PRODUCTS CAN YOU PICK UP DRIVE-THRU? SO WE PRIDE OURSELVES ON BEING A ONE-STOP SHOP, WHETHER IT'S GROCERY, CONVENIENCE ITEMS. AT SOME OF OUR OTHER LOCATIONS, WE'VE GOT A FULL-SERVICE DUNKIN' DONUTS WITH A DRIVE-THRU.
WE HAVE NOT IDENTIFIED THE RESTAURANT USER AT THIS SITE YET, BUT IT'LL BE A NATIONAL BRAND, SOMEBODY THAT YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH, SOMEBODY THAT YOU'LL BE PROUD OF, AND OBVIOUSLY YOU'LL HEAR ABOUT THAT WHEN WE GO TO SITE PLAN APPROVAL.
YOU DO SELL LIQUOR? WE DO, YEP.
THE PACK IS OUT THE FRONT DOOR.
WHAT WAS THAT? DOES THAT DRIVE THROUGH AS WELL? NO, IT'S A PACKAGED LIQUOR INSIDE SALES ONLY.
YEAH, THE MICHIGAN LIQUOR CONTROL COMMISSION WOULD HAVE THEIR WORK.
I THINK A BUDDY OF MINE GREW UP SOMEPLACE WHERE THAT WAS A THING.
BUT IF YOU COULD TALK MORE ABOUT THE CONNECTIVITY THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT, THE PATHWAYS AND STUFF.
SO WE'RE A BIG FAN OF SIDEWALKS, AND WE'VE GOT A SIDEWALK COMING FROM GRAND RIVER FOR ANY OF THE GUESTS THAT WANT TO VISIT US FROM THE APARTMENTS ACROSS THE STREET.
WE HAVE NOT REACHED A DEAL WITH THE PROPERTY OWNER OF THE GRAND RESERVE, BUT WE'VE REACHED OUT TO HIM AND SUGGESTED THE PATHWAY AND THE ACCESS AGREEMENT WITH THE ROAD.
WE DON'T THINK IT'LL BE A PROBLEM, BUT WE'RE WORKING WITH HIM.
IS THAT THE EVERWOOD LANE? IT IS, YEP.
AND THEN YOU CAN SEE THAT WE'VE GOT AN ACCESS DRIVE TO CENTRAL PARK AS WELL.
SO JUST LIKE MDOT, I'VE WORKED VERY CLOSELY WITH INGHAM COUNTY ROAD DEPARTMENT, GIVING THEM PRELIMINARY LOOKS, ASKING FOR FEEDBACK ON WHAT THE APPROACH SHOULD LOOK LIKE, AND WE'VE INCORPORATED ALL OF THOSE THINGS INTO THAT APPROACH AS WELL.
COMMISSIONER MCCONNELL? AND THE OTHER SMALL STEP THAT WE'RE THINKING MIGHT BE A TURNAROUND, IS THAT LIKE FOR SNOW CLEARANCE OR SOMETHING? IT'S JUST KEEPING AN OPEN MIND TO WHAT THAT MIGHT BE IN THE FUTURE.
THERE'S NO PLANS WHATSOEVER FOR THAT VACANT PIECE.
ALONG CENTRAL PARK, BUT JUST KEEPING OUR OPTIONS OPEN.
SO YOU COMPARED THIS A LITTLE BIT TO THE DELTA TOWNSHIP NEW BUILD FROM A COUPLE YEARS AGO? YEP.
IF I'M REMEMBERING THE DELTA TOWNSHIP ONE, THERE'S NOT A TON AROUND THAT ONE.
THERE'S KIND OF, YOU'VE GOT A FREEWAY, RIGHT, AND THAT'S JUST KIND OF YOU GUYS RIGHT THERE, RIGHT? YES.
SO TO ME, THIS IS A LITTLE MARKEDLY DIFFERENT BECAUSE IT'S IN...
A PRETTY HIGH TRAFFIC AREA ALREADY, SO I DON'T KNOW IF I'M NECESSARILY ASKING A QUESTION, BUT I GUESS I'M JUST CHALLENGING THE IDEA THAT IT'S SIMILAR BECAUSE IT IS, TO ME, JUST GEOGRAPHICALLY DIFFERENT.
SO WHEN THE TRAFFIC STUDY WAS COMPLETED, THE SAME ENGINEER THAT DID THAT TRAFFIC STUDY WAS THE ONE THAT DID THE TRAFFIC STUDIES FOR ALL...
[00:30:02]
ALL THREE OF OUR PREVIOUS LOCATIONS.SO HE'S VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE TRAFFIC COUNTS THAT WE GENERATE AND TOOK EVERYTHING LIKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION.
I WAS WITH THE COMMISSIONER MCCONNELL WHO'S OUR RESIDENT TRAFFIC STUDY BECAUSE AS THE UNDERSTAND THIS BUT I KEEP I WAS AT THE FRONT THERE'S TWO TRAFFIC STUDIES THERE'S A STUDY AND THEN THERE'S A OR IN THE ORDINANCE THERE'S A TRAFFIC ASSESSMENT ASSESSMENT AND THEN THERE'S A STUDY AND THEN IF THE ASSESSMENT SHOWS THAT A LOT THAT THEY PROPOSE IF THE POTENTIAL TRAFFIC RISES TO A CERTAIN LEVEL THAT WHOLE BLOWN STUDY THAT GOES TO A STUDY.
OKAY, WE DID IT IN A MORE TECH YOU WENT RIGHT TO STUDY WE WENT RIGHT TO THE STUDY BECAUSE I REACHED OUT TO THEM FOR PRELIMINARY GUIDANCE AND THEY SAID DO THE STUDY STUDY THE WHAT I USUALLY DO IN YOUR PACKET TO KEEP THE PAGES DOWN.
I TAKE ALL THE APPENDIX IS OUT THERE THIS WAS A THIS WAS A FULL STUDY.
YEAH I SAY THAT ALL SAYING THAT I WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND, LIKE I CAN READ THE TRAFFIC STUDIES AS MANY TIMES AS I WANT.
I DON'T COME OUT WITH ANY GREATER UNDERSTANDING.
I'M LOOKING AT THE MEMO AND IT SAYS IT'S TWO PARCELS.
IS THAT ACTUALLY THREE PARCELS OR IS IT TWO? THERE ARE THREE PARCELS.
BUT THE ACREAGE, THE 2.4? ACCURATE IS THE 2.4 JUST THE TWO THAT FRONT ON GRAND RIVER AND THE UM...
CAN I ADDRESS SOMETHING THAT WAS BROUGHT UP EARLIER THAT PERTAINS TO THAT QUESTION? YES.
SO EARLIER IT WAS TALKED ABOUT THE THREE PARCELS AND YES WE INTEND TO COMBINE ALL THREE INTO ONE PARCEL.
AND THAT'S GOING TO BE THE TOTAL OF 8.665 ACRES OR SOMETHING RIGHT IN THAT BALLPARK.
AND THEN I KNOW YOU MENTIONED...
YOU DON'T HAVE PLANS YET FOR THAT BACK PARCEL UP FRONT ONTO CENTRAL PARK, BUT FOR MR. SHORKEY, IF THEY DO COMBINE THOSE THREE PARCELS AND THEN DECIDE TO BUILD, I SEE IT'S SORT OF FAINTLY THE SETBACKS ARE LISTED IN THAT BACK PART THERE.
WOULD THAT BE CONSIDERED LIKE ONE DEVELOPMENT AND THE TOTAL SQUARE FOOTAGE WOULD NEED TO BE CONSIDERED FOR USAGE, OR IS IT? TWO BUILDINGS, ONE PARCEL.
COMBINING THOSE PARCELS, WOULD THAT PUT ANY CONSTRAINTS ON WHAT COULD BE DEVELOPED? RIGHT.
SO IF THEY'RE GOING TO MOVE PARCEL LINES AROUND, THEY CAN GO TO THREE TO TWO.
IF YOU WENT TO THREE TO TWO, THEN IT WOULD SAVE THEM THE LAND DIVISION IN THE FUTURE.
AND THE SETBACKS WOULD BE CALCULATED FROM THE ONE OF THE SETBACKS THAT YOU'RE SEEING ON THERE IS THE REQUIRED 100-FOOT SETBACK.
FROM RESIDENTIAL, THAT'S A CONSTRAINT THAT'S INHERENT TO THE C2 ZONE.
THAT'S STILL GOING TO BE THERE, BUT OTHER THAN THAT...
AND MY APOLOGIES, YOU DID BRING UP A GOOD POINT.
WE DO INTEND TO SPLIT THIS INTO TWO PARCELS AND NOT ONE PARCEL.
THE GRAND RIVER AND THE CENTRAL PARK.
BUT IT'S A SIMPLE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS TO DO THAT.
BUT THE DETENTION AREA WOULD SPAN ACROSS THE TWO PARCELS RIGHT NOW COMBINED NO NO NO THAT WOULD STAY FULLY ON OUR PARCEL BUT WE ARE BUILDING A LITTLE EXTRA INTO OUR DETENTION POND FOR A POSSIBLE FOR WHATEVER THAT LAND MIGHT BE AT SOME POINT COMMISSIONER OH YEAH A NUMBER OF SMALL THINGS SO UM YOU HAVE HERE EVERWOOD LANE UM IS THAT THE SAME AS ELMWOOD ROAD ON THE PARCEL VIEWER BECAUSE I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT, UM...
UM, SO IF YOU, UM, IF YOU ZOOM OUT A LITTLE BIT, IT'S, UM...
YEAH, LET ME GET RID OF THE...
BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE THE OFFSHOOT FROM WOODLAND WAY IS...
YEAH, SO THERE'S ELMWOOD ROAD.
OKAY, AND IN THE SITE PLAN, IT'S CALLED EVERWOOD.
I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE ARE THE SAME THING.
ANOTHER THING IS, SO ON THE CONNECTION TO GRAND RIVER, HAMILTON ROAD IS, LIKE, DIRECTLY ACROSS FROM YOUR ENTRANCE.
ARE YOU EXPECTING PEOPLE TO COME FROM HAMILTON ROAD AND GO STRAIGHT ACROSS? GRAND RIVER AND ACCESS YOUR PROPERTY? SO I'M NOT TOO FAMILIAR WITH THAT, BUT THAT IS EXACTLY WHERE MDOT REQUIRED THE ONE ENTRANCE WE WERE PERMITTED.
THAT WAS JUST A HARD, YOU GET IT HERE AND THAT'S TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT.
NOW, MY QUESTION WAS CONCERNING BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THE ENTRANCE
[00:35:01]
FROM GRAND RIVER, YOU DON'T HAVE LIKE A LARGE TRIANGULAR MEDIAN TO LIKE FORCE RIGHT TURNS AS THE ONLY ACCESS.I'M JUST WORRIED THAT WITHOUT THAT, PEOPLE FROM HAMILTON MAY TRY TO LIKE JUST BEELINE ACROSS GRAND RIVER.
THEY WOULD BE CRAZIER THAN I AM.
SO JUST TO CLARIFY, WE ARE PERMITTED A LEFT TURN INTO THE SITE AS WELL FROM GRAND RIVER.
AND THAT'S WHY IT'S NOT COMPLETELY LIKE A PORK CHOP SHAPE LIKE YOU SEE SOME.
YOU'VE GOT A LEFT TURN MOVEMENT HERE.
AND THEN KIND OF THE LAST QUESTION I HAD IS, CAN YOU SPEAK TO WHY YOU NEED 10, OR SORRY, YEAH, 10 PUMPS INSTEAD OF...
EIGHT PUMPS, 16 STATIONS INSTEAD OF 10.
SO JUST BASED ON MARKET RESEARCH THAT WE'VE DONE FROM OTHER...
YOU KNOW, I WORK INSIDE EACH OF THE LOCATIONS EVERY DAY.
I SEE HOW MANY VEHICLES ARE FUELING.
YOU GUYS HAVE A GREAT COMMUNITY HERE.
I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE A BUSY LOCATION FOR US.
I THINK ANYTHING LESS THAN 16 FUELING STATIONS WOULD BE UNDERSERVED AND REALLY DETRACT FROM THE ECONOMIC BENEFIT OF PUTTING A SITE HERE.
WHAT'S THE ECONOMIC BENEFIT FOR PUTTING THE SITE HERE? JUST BECAUSE IT'S GOOD, I BELIEVE IT'S GOING TO BE A GOOD LOCATION.
I THINK THE COMMUNITY IS GOING TO BENEFIT FROM IT.
I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE OUR SERVICES.
WE PROVIDE A CLEAN, BRIGHT, WELL-KEPT ESTABLISHMENT, THE BEST LANDSCAPING, THE BEST FACILITIES.
I THINK YOUR COMMUNITY WOULD EMBRACE IT.
I THINK THERE'S A REASON WHY THERE'S NOBODY HERE NOT SUPPORTING OR SHOWING.
I INTEND TO COME BACK TO THAT QUESTION.
ONE OF THE BENEFITS THAT THE TOWNSHIP DOES SEE IN THIS, AND I THINK I NOTED IN THE STAFF REPORT, THIS IS THE FIRST GAS STATION ON THE NORTH SIDE OF GRAND RIVER BETWEEN WILLIAMSTON AND EAST LANSING.
SO AT THE MOMENT, IF YOU'RE TRAVELING WEST ON GRAND RIVER AND YOU NEED TO STOP FOR GAS, EVERY ONE OF THOSE MOVEMENTS IS A LEFT TURN.
WE SEE IT AS A TREMENDOUS BENEFIT FOR TRAVELERS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A NORTH SIDE ACCESS AND MAKE A SIMPLE RIGHT TURN INTO SOMETHING.
I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO SPECIFICS.
THEY'RE NOT THE ONLY ONES THINKING ABOUT THIS.
THEY'RE JUST THE FIRST ONE THROUGH THE DOOR.
THIS IS PROBABLY BETTER FOR YOU BECAUSE THIS GOES BACK TO WHAT I'M GOING TO CALL THE NOTICE PROVISION YOU KIND OF MENTIONED.
GRAND RESERVE BY PROBABLY NOTICING THE MANAGEMENT COMPANY, RIGHT? BECAUSE THAT'S AN APARTMENT COMPLEX.
I SENT IT TO THEIR MAIN OFFICE ON SITE.
WERE THERE ANY OTHER RESIDENCES, HOMES, THINGS THAT WERE WITHIN THAT 300 FOOT? HOW ABOUT THIS? LET ME TRY THIS ANOTHER WAY.
HOW MANY LETTERS DID YOU SEND OUT? OFFHAND IN THE...
YOU CAN SEE THAT THAT'S ONE, THAT'S ONE, TWO, THREE, YOU KNOW, IT'S SPARROW, DRAIN COMMISSION.
AND THEN OF COURSE THE PUBLIC NOTICE.
IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU FULLY COMPLIED WITH THE NOTICE REQUIREMENT, BUT I WAS JUST THINKING A LITTLE BIT LIKE, YES, I NOTICE.
WHEN YOU PUT SOMETHING IN A DEPARTMENT COMPLEX, YOU PUT IT IN A PLACE WHERE YOU EXPECT RESIDENTS TO GO.
IT'S NOT AN INDIVIDUAL NOTICE TO EACH RESIDENT.
AND THERE REALLY IS NO OTHER TRULY RESIDENTIAL AREA.
MY FIRST QUESTION TO THE APPLICANT WAS POORLY PHRASED.
PLANNER SHIRKY, COULD YOU PULL UP THE SITE PLAN AGAIN, PLEASE? I'LL PULL IT UP.
KIND OF ZOOM IN ON KIND OF THE MAIN BUILDING SITE THAT SHOWS THE ENTRANCES AND EXITS.
ZOOM OUT JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE, PLEASE.
YOU OR THE APPLICANT COULD HELP US UNDERSTAND HOW A CAR COMES IN SOUTHBOUND ON GRAND RIVER, OR WESTBOUND ON GRAND RIVER, AND GETS GAS AND THEN GOES THROUGH OR GOES THROUGH THE DRIVE-THRU.
[00:40:02]
AND HOW IT THEN LEAVES THAT WOULD REALLY HELP I THINK BECAUSE THIS IS SMALL AND I THINK I UNDERSTAND IT BUT I DON'T.SO EVERYTHING ON OUR SITE IS TAILGATER SIZES I LIKE TO SAY THESE ARE NOT 24 FOOT WIDE DUAL WAY DUAL TRAFFIC EVERYTHING ON THE SITE IS DESIGNED TO BE BIG AND COMFORTABLE AND SPACIOUS THERE'S PLENTY OF ROOM TO TURN AROUND EVERYWHERE YOU LOOK MOST DRIVE AISLES ON COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENTS ARE 24 FEET THEY TRY AND PACK EVERYTHING IN THERE SO TIGHT AND AND SAVE SPACE.
THAT'S NOT THE WAY THIS SITE IS DESIGNED.
THIS SITE IS DESIGNED SPACIOUSLY, AND I DON'T THINK IT'S TOO MUCH SPACE.
IF I'M COMING DOWN THIS MAP, COMING INTO EAST LANSING OR INTO MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP, AND I TURN RIGHT OFF OF GRAND RIVER AND GO TO THE DRIVE-THRU, CAN YOU? I THINK I SEE LIKE SIX CARS STACKED AT THE DRIVE-THRU.
IS THAT CORRECT? AND THEN THERE'S A SERVICE STATION THAT SHOWS ONE CAR, AND THEN THERE'S A PASS-THROUGH FOR PEOPLE WHO AREN'T USING THE DRIVE-THROUGH, WHO ARE JUST LEAVING THE SITE.
AM I UNDERSTANDING THAT CORRECTLY? SORRY, I'M HAVING A LITTLE TROUBLE FOLLOWING WHERE YOU WERE GOING WITH THAT.
I THINK YOU'RE READING IT RIGHT.
SO YOU COME IN AND YOU GET YOUR GAS, RIGHT? YOU'RE GOING TO COME AROUND THIS SIDE OF THE BUILDING, SO THIS WOULD BE THE EAST SIDE OF THE BUILDING.
I THINK THAT'S ACTUALLY THE EXIT.
THIS IS DRIVE-THROUGH STACKING SPACE.
THAT'S WHERE THEY'RE STACKING, WAITING FOR THEIR...
WELL, NO, THIS IS LANDSCAPING.
OKAY, THAT'S THE PICKUP RIGHT THERE.
IT IS A DUAL DRIVE-THROUGH, JUST LIKE MCDONALD'S HAS, WHERE YOU CAN ORDER FROM TWO DIFFERENT POINTS.
DOES THAT HELP? THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
BECAUSE THAT MAKES SO MUCH MORE SENSE FOR HOW YOU WOULD THEN LEAVE THE SITE.
IF I HAD TO GO IN THE OTHER WAY, YOU'D BE DRIVING IN CIRCLES.
VICE CHAIRMAN CURTIS? YEAH, SO IF I'M TRAVELING EAST ON GRAND RIVER, WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO ENTER? YOU CAN TURN RIGHT IN OR YOU CAN TURN LEFT IN FROM THE CENTER LANE.
BUT THE WAY THAT, SO THE ENTRANCE, BECAUSE YOU GOT THE EXIT LANE THAT'S CUT WHERE YOU'RE LEAVING, YOU'RE FORCED TO MAKE A RIGHT TURN.
SO THIS RIGHT HERE, IF YOU CAN SEE THE CURSOR, IS THE EXIT ONTO GRAND RIVER.
AND THEN IF YOU WERE COMING EAST ALONG GRAND RIVER, HEADING UP THIS WAY, YOU CAN TURN LEFT IN HERE, SAME AS SOMEBODY TURNING RIGHT.
AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WAS LOOKING AT.
I WAS JUST MAKING SURE THAT THE WAY THAT YOU'RE TRAVELING WEST AND YOU'RE TURNING RIGHT, THAT THAT'S NOT JUST FOR THE PEOPLE TURNING RIGHT.
YOU NEED TO HAVE, IS THAT GOING TO BE BIG ENOUGH FOR FOLKS TO TURN LEFT? IT IS.
NOT AT THE SAME TIME, OBVIOUSLY.
BUT THE REASON I'M ASKING THAT QUESTION IS BECAUSE, AND I KNOW YOU ALL DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS, BUT LIKE THE BANK OF AMERICA SITE.
THAT'S AWKWARD WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO TURN IN LEFT.
AND SO THAT'S WHAT I WAS ASKING, IS THAT AWKWARDNESS IS GOING TO BE THERE? I DON'T KNOW IF BANK OF AMERICA, YOU CAN TURN LEFT IN THERE.
YEAH, I DON'T THINK IT'S ALLOWED AT BANK OF AMERICA.
YEAH, WELL, ALLOWED VERSUS DONE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
I MEAN, WHEN PEOPLE DRIVE GOING TRAVELING WEST, EAST, AM I SAYING THAT RIGHT? YEAH, TRAVELING EAST ON GRAND RIVER.
IN TO BANK OF AMERICA, I GOTTA GO TO THE BANK.
I MEAN THAT, YOU KNOW, I'VE DONE IT.
I HOPE MR. SHURKEY YOU DO NOT RELEASE THESE VIDEOS TO THE MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP POLICE DEPARTMENT.
THE POLICE CHIEF IS NOT WATCHING.
YOU'RE LIKE, OKAY, LEFT TURN, YOU'RE IN THE CENTER LANE.
ANYWAY, YOU ANSWERED MY QUESTION.
I WATCH PEOPLE TURN LEFT OUT OF MEYER ON A RAPID RATE.
FOR THE, CAN YOU, SO YOU'RE, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE PARKING AND THE, THAT YOU WANT TO HAVE, THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE A SPACIOUS SPACE.
AND THE REASON IS NOT BECAUSE I THINK, I DON'T WANT TO DICTATE WHAT IS ON THIS SPOT, BUT BECAUSE SOME OF THE GOALS IN OUR MASTER PLAN ARE TO MAINTAIN OUR ENVIRONMENT HERE
[00:45:02]
LOCALLY AND SO THE MORE PARKING LOTS WE HAVE, THAT LEADS TO MORE RUNOFF FROM ASPHALT.AND SO MY GOAL IS TO TRY AND REDUCE PARKING BY AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
SO THIS NEXT QUESTION IS, FOR THE OTHER TAILGATERS THAT YOU HAVE AROUND THE LANSING AREA, WHAT IS THE UTILIZATION OF THE PARKING LOTS THAT YOU HAVE? SO DEWITT IS 106.
DELTA TOWNSHIP HAS 65, BUT DELTA TOWNSHIP ALSO HAS A MUCH LARGER PARKING LOT WITH IMPERVIOUS SURFACES.
THE OKEMOS LOCATION I DIDN'T EVEN COUNT JUST BECAUSE IT SHARES A LOT WITH CULVER'S, AND THAT WOULD BE A LOT HARDER TO JUDGE OFF OF.
BUT THOSE THREE SITES ARE JUST A RESTAURANT USER, A TAILGATERS GAS STATION, AND THAT'S WHY I INCLUDED THOSE.
AND SO WE ARE PROPOSING 80 HERE, AND I BELIEVE THAT'S JUSTIFIED BECAUSE THIS IS A MUCH BUSIER CORRIDOR.
I THINK THAT THIS LOCATION WILL GENERATE MORE TRAFFIC THAN THOSE OTHER ONES.
YEAH, SO THERE MAY BE MORE TRAFFIC THAN THE OTHER ONES, BUT MY QUESTION, THOUGH, IS WHAT'S YOUR UTILIZATION OF THE PARKING AT THE OTHER LOCATIONS? SO HOW OFTEN IS THAT PARKING LOT ACTUALLY FULL TO THE MAXIMUM CAPACITY? SO I FEEL REGULARLY ENOUGH TO DICTATE PUTTING IN 80 SPOTS.
IT'S EXPENSIVE TO STORE THE WATER THAT THAT IMPERVIOUS SURFACE GENERATES.
I DON'T WANT TO PUT IN ANY MORE PARKING SPOTS THAN I NEED.
YES? MY NAME IS EMILY JOHNSON.
YOU'VE GOT TO SAY YOUR ADDRESS.
I'VE WORKED AT TAILGATERS FOR 10 YEARS, AND I'VE WORKED AT EVERY SINGLE LOCATION.
I CAN TELL YOU VERY CONFIDENTLY THAT 80 SPACES WILL BE UTILIZED, HANDS DOWN.
ON A BUSY SATURDAY, WE CAN EMPLOY BETWEEN 15 AND 20 PEOPLE, PEAK HOURS.
AND ON TOP OF THAT, IF YOU COME FOR BREAKFAST, I DON'T KNOW IF ANY OF YOU HAVE EVER COME FOR BREAKFAST TO ANY OF OUR LOCATIONS ON A WEEKEND.
THE PARKING IS JUSTIFIED, I CAN PROMISE YOU.
IF NOT, WE COULD EVEN BENEFIT FROM MORE.
CAN I, I KNOW THIS IS NOT RELEVANT, SORRY I'M NOT A GOOD PUBLIC SPEAKER.
CAN I TOUCH ON THE BENEFIT TO THE COMMUNITY THAT WAS ASKED A LITTLE BIT? SO I'M NOT FROM HERE, BUT I LIVED AT HAMILTON TRACE FOR FOUR YEARS.
I WENT TO COLLEGE HERE TOO IN EAST LANSING.
I KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE A COLLEGE STUDENT, AND I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF COLLEGE STUDENTS IN THE AREA.
WHEN I LIVED THERE, THERE'S GAS STATIONS, BUT THERE'S NOTHING LIKE A TAILGATERS.
THERE'S NOTHING LIKE GOING TO A TAILGATERS, BEING ABLE TO FIND YOUR LUNCH, HAVE A PLACE TO DO YOUR HOMEWORK, GET A COFFEE, GET A JOB.
AND FOR PEOPLE THAT LIVE AT GRAND RESERVE, I KIND OF THINK BACK TO MY CHILDHOOD.
I USED TO GO ON BIKE RIDES TO GO GET ICE CREAM WITH MY MOM.
I SEE PEOPLE DOING THAT WITH GRAND RESERVE.
I CAN TOTALLY SEE FAMILIES SAYING, HEY, LET'S GET ON OUR BIKES, LET'S GO TO TAILGATERS FOR A SPECIAL TREAT TONIGHT.
AND I SEE THE HUGE BENEFIT TO A COMMUNITY HERE.
YOU KNOW, WE'RE MORE THAN JUST A GAS STATION.
JEFF GOT INTO THIS AS A RESULT OF HIS FATHER, WHO'S BEEN IN THE BUSINESS EVEN LONGER.
EVERY SINGLE STORE IS OPERATED BY A FAMILY MEMBER.
WE'RE OBVIOUSLY OUT OF FAMILY MEMBERS AT THIS POINT.
BUT HIM AND I STILL GO TO EVERY STORE.
MADDIE OVER HERE, SHE'S WORKED WITH US FOR JUST AS LONG.
WE HIRED HER AS A HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT, AND WE WOULD LOVE TO HIRE MORE HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS.
IT'S A GREAT EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE AREA.
I MEAN, ESPECIALLY FOR HIGH SCHOOL KIDS IN THIS AREA, COLLEGE KIDS IN THIS AREA, WHO CAN TAKE THE BUS, WHO CAN WALK FROM THEIR HOUSE AT THEIR APARTMENT NEARBY, OR RIDE THEIR BIKE FROM GRAND RESERVE.
I SEE A LOT OF BENEFIT HERE FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.
COMMISSIONER NEUMANN? YEAH, TWO QUESTIONS.
SO I DON'T SEE ANY ADDITIONAL SIGNAGE LISTED ON YOUR SITE PLAN.
ARE YOU GOING TO ONLY HAVE SIGNAGE ATTACHED TO THE BUILDING, ESPECIALLY THE FUELING CANOPY, I PRESUME? THERE WILL BE SIGNAGE ON THE BUILDING, THE FUEL CANOPY, AND THEN THERE SHOULD BE A MONUMENT SIGN PROPOSED, AND THAT MIGHT JUST NOT BE SHOWN ON YOUR, IF YOU LOOK ON THE 11 BY 14 THAT YOU WERE HANDED.
YOU CAN SEE A TINY LITTLE DOT RIGHT IN THE FRONT OF THE SITE.
THAT'S MORE VISIBLE AND CALLED OUT ON OTHER SITE PLANS THAT ARE PROBABLY NOT IN YOUR PACKET, BUT YOU'VE GOT ACCESS
[00:50:01]
TO THEM.THE OTHER QUESTION IS, IS THERE ANY ELECTRIC VEHICLE CHARGING AT ANY OF YOUR TAILGATER LOCATIONS? IS THAT SOMETHING YOU WOULD CONSIDER? SO NOT AT THIS POINT, BUT WE DO HAVE CONDUIT INSTALLED UNDERNEATH THE CONCRETE FOR FUTURE USE SHOULD THE NEED EVER ARISE.
RIGHT NOW WE JUST HAVEN'T SEEN THE BENEFIT OR THE PAYOFF, SO WE HAVEN'T DONE IT YET, BUT WE DO HAVE THE ABILITY AT SOME OF THE LOCATIONS TO INSTALL THAT.
YEAH, BECAUSE IF PEOPLE ARE COMING THERE FOR MEALS, I CAN IMAGINE THAT THERE MIGHT BE DEMAND FOR THAT, BUT YEAH THAT'S SOMETHING YEP, YOU'RE RIGHT ON.
DO YOU INTEND TO PUT THAT SAME, I'M GOING TO CALL IT AN OUTLET, AN OUTLET TO BUILD OUT AT THE SITE? YOU SAID YOU MENTIONED HAVING THE EVS.
YOU HAVE EVABILITY AT OTHER SITES, RIGHT? IS THAT WHAT YOU WERE SAYING? BUT YOU NEED TO BUILD IT OUT TO GET THERE.
WE HAVE TO INSTALL THE INFRASTRUCTURE UNDERGROUND.
WE'VE GOT EXTRA CAPACITY ON OUR TRANSFORMER AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
BUT, NO, WE HAVE NOT ACTUALLY PULLED THE TRIGGER ON ANY INFRASTRUCTURE YET.
SAME INTENT HERE, OR ARE YOU SAYING THIS IS...
WE HAVEN'T SEEN THE VALUE IN INSTALLING IT JUST YET.
BUT WE'RE ALWAYS EVALUATING AND NOT OPPOSED TO IT IN ANY WAY.
COMMISSIONER MCCONNELL? PLEASE COME BACK AND TALK MORE ABOUT BIKE RACKS.
SERIOUSLY, MORE OF A SUGGESTION.
I VERY MUCH SEE AN UPTICK IN MY OWN NEIGHBORHOOD.
A MILE AWAY IN KIDS AND PARENTS RIDING BIKES.
MORE AND MORE AND MORE ELECTRIC.
SO AS YOU BUILD OUT THAT INFRASTRUCTURE, PROBABLY A GOOD IDEA TO THINK ABOUT WHERE THEY'LL PUT THOSE VEHICLES WHEN THEY GET THERE.
IT'S GETTING PEOPLE OUT AND ABOUT, AND THAT'S GREAT.
YEAH, BRIAN BROUGHT THAT UP RIGHT BEFORE THE MEETING, AND WE AGREED TO INSTALL EIGHT BIKE RACKS INSTEAD OF WHATEVER'S ON THE PLAN AT SIX.
TWO FOR ME, MS. JOHNSON WAS IT? THAT WAS A GREAT STORY.
SO KEEP YOUR PUBLIC SPEAKING UP.
YOU HAD ME AT THE BIKING TO GET ICE CREAM.
I THINK THAT'S A WONDERFUL WAY TO DO IT.
AND THEN I DON'T KNOW IF MR. SHIRKY TOLD YOU, SIR, I GET BIG ON RESTAURANTS.
SO YOU SAY A NATIONAL RECOGNIZABLE RESTAURANT, KEEP IT IN THE BACK OF YOUR HEAD, MAYBE SOMETHING LOCAL, GOD HELP US.
I SAY THAT NOT FOR YOU TO ANSWER, BUT I'M JUST PUTTING IT OUT THERE.
YOU REALLY WANT TO SEE JEFF'S CHICKEN SHACK? WE HAVE ENOUGH CHICKEN SHACKS.
IF I'M OPENING SOMETHING, IT'S GOING TO BE LIKE A CI BOWLS BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S A MARKET FOR THAT.
I KEEP ASKING FOR BETTER RESTAURANTS.
SO ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSIONERS? I HAVE ONE.
SO THE ONLY SIGN THAT YOU MENTIONED, THE ONLY MONUMENT SIGN IS OFF OF GRAND RIVER, NO ADDITIONAL SIGNAGE OFF OF CENTRAL PARK TO DIRECT PEOPLE IN OFF THAT ENTRANCE? GOOD POINT, YES.
WE WOULD BE PROPOSING ONE SOMEWHERE ALONG CENTRAL PARK AS WELL, AS LONG AS THAT'S, I'D HAVE TO CHECK WITH THE SIGN FOLKS, BUT YEAH.
ALL THE SIGNAGE, OF COURSE, WOULD BE FINALIZED DURING THE SITE PLAN REVIEW, BUT IT'S A GOOD QUESTION, SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND.
OBVIOUSLY IT MAKES SENSE, YOU KNOW, DIRECT PEOPLE OFF OF CENTRAL PARK.
CENTRAL PARK RATHER THAN TURN ON THE GRAND RIVER TO FIND IT.
NOW THAT YOU PUT THE IDEA IN MY HEAD, THE OTHER PLACE I WOULD CRAVE WOULD BE TO HAVE A SONIC.
I REALLY WANT A CHERRY LIMEADE IN THE WORST WAY, LIKE DAILY.
SHOULD WE ALL PUT IN OUR SUGGESTIONS? YES.
RESTAURANTS FROM A HAT, WE'LL JUST PUT THEM IN THERE AND WE'LL PULL.
SIR, I THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND ANSWERING THE COMMISSIONER'S QUESTIONS.
AND I UNDERSTAND UH THIS IS JUST THE INITIAL PUBLIC HEARING AND WE HAVE TO BRING THIS BACK AT THE NEXT MEETING SOUNDS GOOD I I APPRECIATE EVERYTHING AND UH YEAH I THINK YOU'LL BE PLEASED WITH THE DEVELOPMENT IN PARTICULAR YOU UH JEFF MR UH BOMB BACK I THINK I THINK WE'RE WE WILL NOT DISAPPOINT YOU YOU WILL NOT DISAPPOINT ME AND I HOPE THIS UH YEAH THAT'S ALL I WANT TO SAY THANKS, BRIAN.
IS THAT A HINT? CAN YOU GET A LIMEADE? YOU GOING ON THE WAY HERE EVERY DAY? I'M ALL ABOUT CHERRY LIMEADES.
YEAH, THEY GOT ONE IN LANSING, RIGHT? THEY GOT THE SONIC IN LANSING, DIDN'T THEY? NO? NO.
I THOUGHT THERE WAS ONE IN LANSING.
TYPICALLY, YOU GIVE STAFF SOME DIRECTION.
UM, SO THIS WOULD BE, THIS IS WHAT WE CALL A SOFT, OR A...
ALL RIGHT, SO, BECAUSE I DO HAVE TO WRITE A RESOLUTION FOR YOUR NEXT MEETING.
SO, A STRAW POLL FOR THOSE COMMISSIONERS THAT WOULD BE
[00:55:01]
VOTING TO APPROVE THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR 260.I'M NOT GOING TO SAY, YOU KNOW, PLANNING COMMISSION INDICATED BY STRAWPOLE.
YEAH, AND I'LL WRITE A RESOLUTION.
THAT'S ALL THE MINUTES WILL SAY.
I'M STILL LEARNING THIS JOB, MR. SCHERKE.
WE WELCOME YOU BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO.
[7.B. ZA #26002 – Chicken Regulation Update ]
BUT THANK YOU.AND WITH THAT WE CAN MOVE TO B UNDER PUBLIC HEARING.
UNLESS YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT CHICKEN ORDINANCES.
THIS IS PRETTY SELF-EXPLANATORY.
THERE'S NO CHANGES FROM THE DRAFT.
I DO HAVE SOME NUMBERS I WANT TO SHARE, THOUGH.
I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT THE EFFECT OF ADDING DISTRICTS.
SO WE CURRENTLY ALLOW BACKYARD CHICKENS IN OUR RAAA, RAA, AND RA ZONES.
THAT'S ON THE BOOKS, OKAY? WE CURRENTLY HAVE ROUGHLY 08,770 PARCELS THAT OUR ORDINANCE APPLIES TO.
THAT THEY'RE ELIGIBLE TO APPLY FOR BACKYARD CHICKENS.
NOTE THAT THAT'S OVER HALF OUR PARCELS IN OUR TOWNSHIP.
IF THIS PASSES IN ITS FORM, YOU'D BE ADDING THE RB AND THE RX DISTRICTS.
THAT'S ANOTHER 1,800 OR SO PARCELS.
SO YOU'D GO FROM 87.7 TO 10.6.
AGAIN, THAT'S NOT, I THOUGHT THAT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE, YOU KNOW, IS THIS A LOT OF EFFECT, IS THIS NOT A LOT OF EFFECT? ROUGH MATH, IS THAT 15, 17% SOMEWHERE IN THERE? WHAT? THE EXPANSION.
SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ADDING 800 TO 8700.
USING PARCELS, THOUGH, IS THE MATH A LITTLE DIFFICULT, THOUGH, BECAUSE THEY'RE DIFFERENT SIZES.
SO IT'S PROBABLY MAYBE MORE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT THE ACTUAL SPACE RAMIFICATIONS ARE.
THE 800 NUMBER WAS 1,000 ACRES, AND THEN THIS ADDITIONAL GROUP RAISED THAT 1,000 ACRES TO 02,000 ACRES.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT IS THE OUTCOME.
THEY CAN ONLY PUT CHICKEN PER ACRE.
THIS WAS A QUICK AND EASY CALCULATION.
CHICKEN PER ACRE? I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT...
YES, THE MATH IS A LOT HARDER.
I WOULD TURN IT OVER TO OUR GIS PROFESSIONAL AND ASK THEM TO DO SOME KIND OF ANALYSIS AT THAT POINT, BUT THIS WAS A QUICK AND EASY QUESTION.
MR. CHERKY, AS A RB AND RX ON A COMPARATIVE DENSITY TO RAA AND RA, ARE RB AND RX MORE DENSE OR LESS DENSE? THEY ARE MORE DENSE.
SINGLE FAMILY IN BOTH OF THOSE DISTRICTS IS 8,000 SQUARE FEET.
THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE IN THE RA DISTRICT IS 10,000 SQUARE FEET, AND THEN IT GOES UP FROM THERE.
SO THE RV DISTRICT, IS THAT WHAT WE WERE PROPOSING FOR THE...
LARGE AREA THAT WAS JUST NORTH OF THE TAILGATERS PROPERTY THAT WE JUST LOOKED AT, OR NORTH AND EAST.
THE I DEVELOPMENT? THE I DEVELOPMENT.
WE WERE PROPOSING THAT THAT WAS GOING TO BE AN RV DISTRICT.
NO, THAT WAS A MULTIFAMILY DISTRICT.
WELL, IT'S MORE DENSE BECAUSE IT'S MULTIFAMILY.
YEAH, IT'S RD MULTIFAMILY, RIGHT? YEAH, THAT I DEVELOPMENT ON CENTRAL PARK DEVELOPMENT, THAT WAS A MULTIFAMILY DENSITY.
THIS IS NOT INCLUDING MULTIFAMILY DISTRICTS.
THE PROPERTY THAT IS ALREADY...
[01:00:03]
TO THE MULTIFAMILY PROPOSAL, THAT'S ZONED RB, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS ZONED...YEAH, SO ALREADY ALLOWED THERE.
AND, I MEAN, FOR ME HERE, THOSE HOUSES LOOK PRETTY CLOSE TOGETHER.
CHICKENS IN A ON A SMALLER LOT THAN THAT YEAH YEAH THAT WAS PARTIALLY THE SAME THE SAME STANDARDS APPLY THOUGH RIGHT YOU HAVE 10 FOOT SIDE SETBACKS FOR CHICKEN COOPS AND THEY GOT YOU KNOW YOU'RE LIMITED TO FOUR AND THEY'VE GOT TO BE ENCLOSED AND ALL OF THE THINGS UH ONE OF THE POINTS THAT WAS RAISED AT OUR LAST CONVERSATION IS IF THE STANDARD THANK YOU.
IF THEY CAN MEET THE STANDARDS, YOU KNOW, EVEN IF IT'S A SMALLER LOT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A STANDARD IN PLACE.
OH, SO LIKE EVEN IF THE ZONING ALLOWS IT, CAN YOU PRACTICALLY DO IT ON YOUR...
IF YOU CAN'T MEET THAT 10-FOOT SETBACK, THEN WE'RE NOT GOING TO GIVE YOU THE PERMIT.
I DO WANT TO POINT OUT, AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS CONVERSATION, WE'VE SINCE REVAMPED OUR WEBSITE.
YOU I DID COME ACROSS, YOU KNOW, WE DO PERMIT, WE DO HAVE A PERMIT.
WE HAVE A PERMIT THAT HAS TO BE SENT IN.
SO SOMEWHERE WE MUST HAVE A RECORD OF HOW MANY LEGAL CHICKENS WE HAVE IN THE TOWNSHIP.
THIS IS NOT A CONVERSATION I'VE HAD IN A LONG TIME.
MAYBE MORE EXTREMELY HUNGRY IN LEGAL CHICKENS.
BUT THIS JUST, BUT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET YOUR PERMIT IF YOU CAN'T MEET THE SETBACKS.
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET THE PERMIT IF YOU CAN'T PUT THEM IN A, WHATEVER OTHER RESTRICTIONS THERE ARE.
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET A PERMIT IF YOUR HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION DOESN'T ALLOW IT.
MY QUESTION IS, HOW MANY HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS EVEN ALLOW CHICKENS? I DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA.
I WOULD GUESS THAT, BUT I DO NOT KNOW.
IT SEEMS LIKE THE INCREASE IS MARGINAL AT BEST.
IN TERMS OF GOING FROM 8,000, WHATEVER, 100, TO 10,000, WHATEVER.
YES, TECHNICALLY THE ZONING SAYS IT'S ALLOWED.
I WOULD SUSPECT THEY'VE GOT A HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATION THAT SAYS, NO, YOU'RE NOT, AND THAT WOULD TRUMP.
THE COMMUNICATION THAT YOU HANDED OUT TODAY SEEMS TO TAKE A DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION OF THE NUMBER OF RESTRICTIONS THAN I DID AS WE WERE DISCUSSING THIS, SAYING THAT YOU KNOW, IT ONLY COUNTS CHICKENS OF EGG-LAYING AGE, AND THEREFORE IF THEY GOT TOO OLD TO LAY EGGS, THEN YOU COULD HAVE AS MANY AS YOU WANTED, AND THEY WOULDN'T COUNT.
THERE'S A MINIMUM AGE WE COUNT THEM, AND THEN WE CONTINUE TO COUNT THEM.
DO YOU FEEL THAT THERE'S ANY NEED TO CLARIFY THAT? NO.
SO AN EGG-LAYING AGE, I MEAN, I DIDN'T TAKE IT THAT WAY, AND AS LONG AS THE PERMITTING PEOPLE ARE NOT TAKING IT THAT WAY, OR THE, YOU KNOW.
I FEEL VERY CONFIDENT THAT WE UNDERSTAND THAT ONCE THEY'RE...
THAT INSTRUMENT NEEDS FOR THAT PERSON.
HERE'S WHERE I PERSONALLY GET CAUGHT BECAUSE, AS I'VE MENTIONED, I JUST LEFT THE PRESIDENCY OF MY HOA BOARD, BUT I CONSISTENTLY POINTED TO ORDINANCES TRUMPING HOA BOARD RULES.
IF WE WERE GOING TO GO FORWARD WITH THIS, I KNOW THIS IS PROBABLY LATE IN THE PROCESS, BUT I WOULD HAVE SOMETHING THAT JUST SAYS, YOU KNOW...
THIS ORDINANCE IS SUBSERVIENT TO ANY HOA.
LIKE, PUT IT OUT THERE SPECIFICALLY.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO SAY IT, BECAUSE IT JUST IS.
AND I HESITATE TO PUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN BLACK AND WHITE IN AN ORDINANCE.
I DON'T WANT TO GET THE WRONG IMPRESSION, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IF OUR ORDINANCE IS MORE RESTRICTIVE, THEN, YOU KNOW.
BECAUSE IT'S LIKE, I'M JUST THINKING SOMEBODY FILES FOR THEIR CHICKEN PERMIT, THEY GET...
THEIR PERMIT FOR THE CHICKEN PERMIT.
THEY WALK TO THEIR HOA AND THEY SAY, HEY, I'M PUTTING CHICKENS IN.
I'VE ALREADY GOT MY ORDINANCE PERMIT.
OUR BYLAWS FOR WHERE I LIVE DO NOT SPECIFICALLY PROHIBIT CHICKEN COOPS.
THEY DO HAVE REGULATIONS AROUND STRUCTURES.
ONE OF THE SUGGESTIONS AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF THIS CONVERSATION IS, SHOULD THERE BE A REQUIREMENT THAT IF YOU LIVE IN AN HOA THAT YOUR APPLICATION COME WITH A LETTER, EMAIL, OR SOME KIND OF COMMUNICATION FROM YOUR HOA SAYING IT'S OKAY? AND YOU DIDN'T WANT TO DO THAT.
THAT SEEMED OKAY, NOT A PROBLEM.
[01:05:03]
WE DON'T DO THIS IN A VACUUM.VACUUM, RIGHT? SO WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT THE ADDRESS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO PUT ON YOUR APPLICATION, AND WE'LL TELL YOU, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GO CHECK WITH YOUR HOA, BUT HERE YOU, YOU KNOW.
IN THAT CASE, I DO FEEL LIKE IT IS NOT THE TOWNSHIP'S RESPONSIBILITY TO ENFORCE HOA POLICY.
YOU WOULD GET YOUR PERMIT BECAUSE YOU'RE LEGALLY ALLOWED IN THE TOWNSHIP TO HAVE THIS.
IF YOUR HOA TO WHICH YOU SUBSCRIBED AND AGREED TO THEIR BYLAWS OR THEIR COVENANTS WHATEVER SAYS YOU CAN'T AND THEN THEY'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR TAKING ACTION AGAINST YOU SO I DON'T FEEL LIKE WE SHOULD HAVE TO BE UNDERSTANDING THE NUANCES OF AN HOA NO WE'LL GIVE THEM A WARNING TO GO CHECK THEIR HOA BUT WE CAN'T HOLD UP A ONE OF OUR PERMITS OVER AN HOA YEAH I MEAN I THINK IT WOULD BE KIND AND NICE TO PEOPLE WHO ARE APPLYING FOR A PERMIT TO SAY YOU MAY ALSO WANT TO CHECK WITH YOUR HOA BECAUSE WE HAVE POLICIES THAT MAY ALSO APPLY IN ADDITION TO THE PERMITTING THAT YOU NEED TO DO WITH US.
BUT I DON'T WANT THE TOWNSHIP TO BE IN THE BUSINESS OF ENFORCING IT.
NO, I LIKE WHAT YOU DID THERE.
I HAVE ALWAYS UNDERSTOOD THE PROCESS OF KEEPING CHICKENS LEGALLY TO BE A MATTER OF NOTIFYING THE TOWNSHIP.
THAT I AM AWARE OF THE RULES AND THAT I'M GOING TO ABIDE BY THEM AND I SIGN MY NAME AND THAT IS A NOTICE OF REGISTRATION.
I'VE NOT HEARD BEFORE THAT A PERMIT AS SUCH IS ISSUED.
MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT WHEN THERE'S A COMPLAINT, RIGHT, THE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER THEN SAYS, DO YOU OR DO YOU NOT, DID YOU OR DID YOU NOT NOTIFY US? AND IF YOU DID, ARE YOU ACTUALLY COMPLYING WITH THE RULES YOU SIGNED ON TO? RIGHT.
AND IF YOU'RE NOT, YOU CAN'T DO THIS ANYMORE.
I'M GOING TO CUT A WEIRD THING BECAUSE NOW I'M RETHINKING AGAIN AND THIS IS MY FAULT.
WHEN YOU SAY, WHEN I HEARD THE TERM PERMIT, THAT'S ONE THING.
PUTTING INTO THE TEST WITH A NEW WEBSITE.
I THINK I LIKE THE WAY IT WORKS AND STILL GOT THE GREAT CONTENT.
CHICKEN AND RABBIT REGISTRATION APPLICATION.
SEE, HERE'S NAME, ADDRESS, TELEPHONE, EMAIL, AND THEN HERE'S ALL THE THINGS AND LIKE COMMISSIONER MCCONNELL WAS SAYING, YOU'RE GOING TO SIGN YOU'VE READ AND UNDERSTAND THE REGULATION SIGN AND DATE.
BUT IT DOES SPECIFY WHAT ZONES? YES.
SO THIS WOULD HAVE TO BE UPDATED TO INCLUDE THE RB AND RX.
HERE'S THE LINE I'M POTENTIALLY DRAWING HERE.
THERE IS, IN MY MIND, A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A PERMIT AND A REGISTRATION PROCESS.
BECAUSE A PERMIT, TO ME, IS AN ACTIVE PROCESS BY WHICH THE TOWNSHIP WOULD HAVE APPROVED A CHICKEN VERSUS A REGISTRATION, WHICH IS JUST, I'M TELLING YOU I HAVE THESE AND I'M GOING TO COMPLY.
OKAY, BUT YOU'RE GETTING TO THE SAME PLACE.
YOU'RE GIVING US A PIECE OF PAPER SAYING THAT I'M GOING TO FOLLOW THESE RULES.
I MEAN, I'M SORRY IF I USE A DIFFERENT WORD.
BECAUSE I'M JUST THINKING WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IN MY SUBDIVISION IF SOMEBODY'S GOING TO COME BACK WITH, IF SOMEBODY COMES IN WITH A PERMIT FROM THE TOWNSHIP, THAT'S ONE THING, RIGHT? I HAVE A PERMITTED THING TO DO X VERSUS.
I REGISTERED WITH THE TOWNSHIP AND THEN I WOULD AGREE THAT THE HOA COULD TAKE SEPARATE ACTION.
IF THE HOA SAYS YOU CAN'T HAVE CHICKENS IN THE BACKYARD, I DON'T CARE IF YOU GOT A PERMIT FROM US OR NOT.
YOU KNOW, YOU CAN COME IN AND GET A BUILDING PERMIT AND SAY, OKAY, I'M GOING TO BUILD THIS GARAGE.
BY OUR RULES, YOU NEED TO MAKE IT SMALLER.
AND I'VE SEEN THAT HAPPEN A LOT IN MY CAREER.
SOMEHOW I THINK CHICKENS MIGHT BE MORE CONTROVERSIAL THAN AN OVERSIZED GARAGE, BUT WE'LL TAKE THAT FOR ANOTHER DAY.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR QUESTIONS FOR MR. SHARKEY? DID I HEAR YOU VOLUNTEERED TO HAVE THE GIS FOLKS DO A PER ACRE CALCULATION? NO, I DIDN'T VOLUNTEER.
[01:10:01]
BROOKS ASKED FOR IT.SO AT THIS POINT WOULD WE BE, SO THIS IS UNFINISHED BUSINESS, THEORETICALLY WE WOULD FINISH THIS BUSINESS TODAY WITH A VOTE.
I WILL COME BACK TO THE NEXT MEETING WITH A RESOLUTION IF THAT'S OKAY WITH YOU.
WITH THAT, WE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 739.
NOT SURE I EVER OPENED IT WITH A SPECIFIC TIME,
[8.A. ZA #26001 – Parking Ordinance Update]
BUT WE'LL DO THAT AT 7.39, AND THEN WE CAN MOVE TO PARKING ORDINANCE UPDATES UNDER OUR INSURANCE BUSINESS.I WATCHED THE MEETING REALLY CLOSE.
I TRIED TO GIVE SOME INFORMATION WHERE IT SEEMED LIKE YOU NEEDED IT.
I DIDN'T HEAR A LOT OF QUESTIONS.
I DID NOTE THIS ON THE THING ABOUT THE PARKING MAXIMUMS. SINCE OUR LAST MEETING, I DID ATTEND THE DDA MEETING AND THEY RAISED THESE POINTS.
YOU KNOW, INITIATING A PARKING MAXIMUM WILL INCREASE NUMBER OF VARIANCES.
NEW PARKING MAXIMUM WILL CREATE SEVERAL NON-CONFORMING USES.
DEVELOPERS AND BUSINESS PEOPLE GENERALLY KNOW HOW MUCH TRAFFIC TO EXPECT.
WE'VE DISCUSSED THAT, ETC., ETC.
WE ALREADY HAVE A PARKING MAXIMUM FOR A LOT OF OUR DEVELOPMENTS.
THIS WAS IN OUR PARKING ORDINANCE, AND THEN IT WAS STILL IN OUR PARKING ORDINANCE WHEN WE UPDATED OUR NUMBERS LAST YEAR.
WHAT WE DID UPDATE WERE THE SIZE OF THE CENTERS.
WE WENT FROM LIKE FOUR OR FIVE BUSINESS CENTERS TO TWO.
BUT THE NUMBERS ARE BASICALLY FIVE TO FIVE AND A HALF SPACES FOR 1,000 FEET, OR FOR THE LARGER ONES, OVER 25,000 SQUARE FEET, WHICH ARE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, BY THE WAY, FOUR TO FOUR AND A HALF SPACES PER 01,000 SQUARE FEET.
THAT IS WHY TRADER JOE'S HAD TO GET A VARIANT.
I AM NOT IN A POSITION TO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO YOU.
HOWEVER, STAFF NO LONGER SEES A NEED FOR THE 20% MAXIMUM.
WE HAVE THIS MECHANISM IN OUR ORDINANCE, AND WE'VE GOT TWO BOARDS THAT ARE NOT IN FAVOR OF IT.
HAVING SAID THAT, IT IS YOUR ORDINANCE, NOT THEIRS.
I HAVE NO OTHER COMMENT ON THIS ORDINANCE AT THIS TIME, AND I'M OPEN TO MORE QUESTIONS.
I APPRECIATE ALL THE EFFORT THAT'S BEEN TAKEN AND LOOKED AT THIS, AND DEFINITELY TALKING TO THE DDA AND CIA, AND I APPRECIATE ALL THE WORK THAT'S GONE INTO IT, SO THANK YOU.
I'M GOING TO BE SLIGHTLY ANNOYING PROBABLY WITH MY COMMENTS, BUT HOPEFULLY NOT TOO ANNOYING.
SO I HEAR THE ARGUMENT AGAINST THE PARKING MAXIMUM, AND I THINK THAT MOST OF THE POINTS AGAINST THE PARKING MAXIMUM CAN ALSO BE MADE ABOUT PARKING MINIMUM.
SO WHENEVER WE CHANGE THE PARKING ORDINANCE, IT'S GOING TO CREATE NON-CONFORMING PROPERTIES, RIGHT? CHANGING THE ORDINANCE BY CHANGING THE MAXIMUM OR MINIMUM IS GOING TO CHANGE THE VARIANCES POTENTIALLY ON THE NUMBER OF VARIANCES THAT WE GET.
AN ORDINANCE CREATES A CERTAIN LEVEL OF SLOWDOWN, AND SO PEOPLE HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANT TO PUSH BACK AGAINST THAT OR NOT, AND MANY PEOPLE DON'T.
IT HAPPENS THE SAME THING WITH THE SIGN ORDINANCE.
SO WE HAVE SIGN ORDINANCES, AND SOME GROUPS ASK FOR VARIANCES AND SOME DON'T, AND THEY JUST MOVE ON WITH IT.
[01:15:05]
THE POINT THAT DEVELOPERS AND BUSINESS PEOPLE ARE GENERALLY KNOW HOW MUCH TRAFFIC TO EXPECT AND ARE CAPABLE OF DETERMINING HOW MUCH PARKING THEY NEED, I THINK I'VE ADDRESSED THAT AS WELL REGARDING THE PARKING MINIMUMS. THERE ARE COMMUNITIES THAT ARE GETTING RID OF THE MINIMUMS, AND THE SAME THING COULD BE SAID FOR THE MAXIMUM.BUT THE PURPOSE OF A MAXIMUM IS TO HAVE AN ORDINANCE MECHANISM ACROSS THE BOARD THAT WOULD BASICALLY ALLOW US TO CREATE A BARRIER TO THE PARKING BECAUSE WE HAVE LIMITED SPACE HERE IN THE COMMUNITY AND WE'RE BUILT IN A SWAMPY AREA.
AND SO THE IDEA OF LIMITING THE ASPHALT SEEMS LIKE A GOOD LONG-TERM THING TO TRY AND DO.
AND AT LEAST IN MY MIND, THE PARKING MAXIMUM AT THIS POINT SEEMS LIKE A REASONABLE WAY OF DOING THAT.
THE LIMITATION ON THE DEVELOPER CONSTRUCTING EXTRA PARKING IN CASE OF FUTURE EXPANSION, I THINK THAT'S STILL ON THE TABLE IF THEY NEED TO REQUEST A VARIANCE.
THE POINT ABOUT STRINGENT ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATIONS FOR THIS AREA, I THINK SOME OF THOSE THINGS DO COME FROM THE DRAIN COMMISSIONER'S OFFICE AND WE ALSO HAVE OUR OWN.
I'M NOT DISPUTING THAT WE HAVE THOSE IN PLACE IN ORDER TO PROTECT THE COMMUNITY AND ALSO TO SUPPORT THE MASTER PLAN'S INITIATIVES.
AND THEN THE LAST POINT ABOUT MANDATORY PARKING REQUIREMENTS BASED ON OTHER REGULATORY REQUIREMENTS AND THE CONFLICT THERE, THAT IS ALSO POSSIBLE AND CAN ALSO, I THINK, BE SAID ABOUT ANY OTHER ORDINANCE THAT WE WOULD DETERMINE TO PUT IN PLACE.
IF THERE ARE SPECIFIC ONES THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED, I THINK THAT WOULD BE...
WORTHWHILE TO EXPLORE, BUT I DON'T KNOW OF ANY ONE SPECIFICALLY.
SO WITH ALL THAT BEING SAID, I HEAR WHAT FOLKS ARE SAYING, AND I THINK THAT THE 20% COULD BE MOVED UP OR DOWN.
I THINK IT IS A GOOD MECHANISM TO HAVE IN PLACE.
SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THOSE COMMENTS.
MR. MCCONNELL? I, TOO, SCRATCHED MY HEAD A BIT ABOUT OTHER REGULATORY REQUIREMENTS.
ARE WE AWARE OF ANY OTHER REGULATORY REQUIREMENTS? THE CONCERN WAS BROUGHT UP BY THE OWNER OF...
I'M SORRY, THE HAIR PLACE IN THE OKEMOS AREA.
DOUGLAS J., THANK YOU, THANK YOU.
THEY'RE LICENSED BY THE STATE, AND THEY HAVE TO HAVE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES PER CHAIR.
IT TURNS OUT THEY HAVE 22 CHAIRS RIGHT NOW.
IS THAT ALSO COMMON TO MEDICAL LICENSE? I DON'T KNOW.
I'VE NEVER HEARD THAT BEFORE, BUT APPARENTLY IT'S A THING.
NOW, IN HER SPECIFIC CASE, THEY HAVE A BIG SHARED PARKING.
THAT'S NOT AN ISSUE FOR HER PER SE, BUT IT MIGHT BE FOR ANOTHER.
AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE THOSE REGULATORY REQUIREMENTS WOULD BE.
I'VE NEVER HEARD OF THAT BEFORE, BUT NOW THAT IT'S SOMETHING I HAVE HEARD OF, I DON'T KNOW WHERE ELSE THAT MIGHT CROP UP IN THE FUTURE.
I MEAN, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THERE COULD BE A STATEMENT IN THE ORDINANCE THAT SAYS SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF, IF STATE OR FEDERAL LEVEL PARKING REQUIREMENTS PUSH UP THE MAXIMUM OR GO
[01:20:01]
BEYOND THE MAXIMUM PERCENTAGE, THEN STAFF MAY ACT ACCORDINGLY? THIS MAXIMUM MAY BE WAIVED IF MORE PARKING IS REQUIRED BY OUTSIDE REGULATORY AGENCIES.GETTING TO THE VERY LAST NOTE, NOT THE BULLET, BUT THE TEXT BELOW THE BULLET WHERE IT NOTED THAT SEVERAL COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENTS, INCLUDING RETAIL USES, FALL UNDER THE GENERAL COMMERCIAL CATEGORY AND THAT IT'S ALREADY THERE.
HOW MANY COMMERCIAL USES WOULDN'T NECESSARILY, BECAUSE WE'D BE REGULATING ON THE MARGINS IF WE DID THIS.
TALKING ABOUT THE CHICKENS, DOES IT ADD, WE'RE COVERING JUST A SMALL PERCENTAGE MORE, BECAUSE MOST OF THEM ARE ALREADY COVERED BY THIS? SO TAILGATERS IS A GOOD EXAMPLE.
FACILITY, RIGHT? SO YOU HAVE TO DO THE PARKING SEPARATE AND ADD IT TOGETHER.
SO THERE IS A STANDARD FOR RESTAURANTS, AND THAT IS PART OF THEIR CALCULATION, BUT THE CONVENIENCE STORE IS THIS, AND THAT'S WHERE THEY GOT THE FIVE TO FIVE AND A HALF FOR THAT PART OF THEIR CALCULATION.
SO ANY RETAIL STORE IS GOING TO BE THIS.
RESTAURANTS HAVE THEIR OWN STANDARD.
SO JUST TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND THE BIG PICTURE, SO WE ARE PROPOSING CHANGES TO THE ORDINANCE THAT WOULD THEN BE BROUGHT TO THE TOWNSHIP BOARD FOR THEM TO PASS INTO LAW, CORRECT? CORRECT.
SO I SPOKE WITH ONE OF THE BOARD MEMBERS AT THEIR LAST MEETING, AND THEY AREN'T AWARE THAT WE'RE DOING ANY OF THIS DISCUSSION.
IS THIS SOMETHING THAT WE WANT TO SOLICIT THEIR FEEDBACK ON? NO.
OKAY, NOW I WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND.
NO, WE HAVE TO MAKE ALL THE OTHER BOARDS MAD, AND THEN WE MAKE THEM MAD.
I WASN'T SURE IF WE SOLICITED ANY...
I SEE WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM, BUT NO.
THEY'LL GET THEIR TURN AT BAT.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, CONCERNS? SO IT SOUNDS LIKE WE HAVE A REQUEST FOR AT LEAST ONE MORE, WHAT I WOULD CALL A PRO FORMA AMENDMENT.
IF IT'S THE WILL OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION, I CAN WRITE THAT CAVEAT INTO THE ORDINANCE AND THEN BRING IT BACK.
ARE YOU READY FOR A RESOLUTION WITH THAT CHANGE? THERE ARE NO OTHER QUESTIONS.
YOU ARE NOT BRINGING UP, I'M NOT THROWING SHADE, BUT YOU'RE NOT BRINGING UP OTHER QUESTIONS.
IS IT WORTH THAT DRAFT GOING TO THE FOLKS WHO GAVE US THE INPUT TO SEE IF WE...
NO, YOU ARE THE APPROVING BODY.
AND THAT WAS ACTUALLY MENTIONED AT ONE POINT DURING THE DDA MEETING.
IT WAS LIKE, AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S YOUR ORDINANCE.
ARE YOU SURE THAT THE STATE REQUIRES MINIMUM SPACES? NO.
I AM GOING OFF WHAT I AM TOLD.
I JUST FIND THAT REALLY HARD TO BELIEVE.
AND AI IS TELLING ME OTHERWISE.
I STILL THINK IT'S KIND OF A GOOD SAFETY NET.
WHAT MADE ME THINK OF, LIKE, HUGE MEDICAL ESTABLISHMENTS THAT FORCE YOU TO PARK IN A PAID PARKING GARAGE.
LIKE, IT SEEMS LIKE THIS DAY WOULD REGULATE THAT, TOO.
IF YOU NEED MEDICAL CARE, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY TO PARK.
I DON'T KNOW, BUT I FOUND THAT.
LET'S SEE IF YOU CAN RAM THAT THROUGH BEFORE YOU DIAL, RIGHT? THANKS FOR COMING.
YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR CAR BACK BECAUSE YOU'RE BROKE.
WE DON'T CARE IF YOU'RE BLEEDING OUT.
YEAH, AND I JUST WANT TO, I APPRECIATE THAT RESEARCH AS WELL, BECAUSE I WANT TO REITERATE THAT ANY LANGUAGE I WOULD SAY IS, I'D BE WILLING TO SUPPORT LANGUAGE THAT SUPPORTS OR PULLS IN STATE.
LEVEL REGULATORY GUIDANCE, NOT JUST SORT OF LIKE ANY SORT OF LICENSING BODIES THAT ARE NON-PROFITS OR PRIVATE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
SO, AT THE STATE OR FEDERAL LEVEL, THEN WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
YEAH, BECAUSE YOU COULD TECHNICALLY GO TO THE...
THE COUNTY CAN GET A BUSINESS LICENSE, I GUESS.
I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT'S WHERE LICENSES COME FROM, BUT WE DO GET BUSINESS LICENSES.
[01:25:01]
OKAY, THAT'S A CLARIFICATION.WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT HOW, YOU KNOW, IF SOMETHING...
SUPERSEDES SOMETHING ELSE IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE EXPLICITLY MADE MENTION OF IN THE ORDINANCE LIKE IT DOESN'T REALLY SEEM NECESSARY IF STATE REGULATORY AGENCIES HAVE A STANDARD THEN THAT'S THE STANDARD JUST LIKE WITH HOAS YOU KNOW LIKE RIGHT AND I'D HATE TO HAVE TO MAKE THEM GO THROUGH THE VARIANCE PROCESS FOR THAT JUST TO GET A RUBBER STAMP BECAUSE OF RIGHT THIS GETS THEM OUT OF THAT PROCESS I DO NOT KNOW THAT THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN.
I'M GOING TO BE REALLY HONEST.
I DO NOT KNOW THAT I'M GOING TO FACE THIS AGAIN.
HOWEVER, I THREW IT OUT THERE BECAUSE I APPRECIATE THE FEEDBACK AND I'M ALSO WILLING TO COMPROMISE WITH GROUPS AND TO TRY AND MAKE THINGS AMENABLE TO EVERYONE.
BUT I THINK THAT YOU BOTH ARE MAKING GOOD POINTS ABOUT IT.
WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS NECESSARY.
IT MADE ME THINK OF THE ADA COMPLIANCE.
DON'T WE HAVE ACCESSIBILITY CODE THAT'S LISTED IN THERE, WHICH TECHNICALLY ISN'T REQUIRED? WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT'S NOT REQUIRED? WE HAVE TO FOLLOW ADA STANDARDS.
BUT I'M SAYING I THOUGHT THERE WAS A CONVERSATION THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE TO EXPRESSLY LIST THOSE.
YEAH, YOU CAN DO IT BY REFERENCE, AND THEN DURING BUILDING PERMITTING PROCESS, THEY'LL LOOK AT DO YOU HAVE ENOUGH HANDICAP SPOTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
SORRY, I'M RECALLING SOMETHING I SAID IN THE LAST MEETING.
THE IDEA BEING IT WOULD GIVE...
THE TOWNSHIP SOME LEEWAY TO MAKE THINGS FASTER FOR DEVELOPERS TO NOT GO THROUGH THESE PROCESSES? I THINK I MAY BE ABLE TO BACK AND FORTH ABOUT THIS.
AS PROPOSED, DOES THE AMENDED ORDINANCE EMPOWER THE TOWNSHIP TO DO SO UNDER WHAT WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US? DID THAT MAKE ITS WAY IN? NO, I CAN'T BUILD A MECHANISM IN TO GET YOU AROUND.
A VERY, LIKE, THE 20% APPLIES UNLESS WE DON'T LIKE, I MEAN, UNLESS WE FEEL LIKE IT'S OKAY.
I'M JUST, LIKE I SAID, I'M GOING THROUGH, REMEMBERING.
YEAH, WE DID HAVE THAT CONVERSATION.
OR WE WOULD HAVE TO STIPULATE SPECIFIC PROPERTY TYPES SIMILAR TO THE PARKING MINIMUMS WHERE THEY'RE ALL LISTED OUT.
WHICH I DON'T WANT TO PROPOSE, TO BE CLEAR.
SO WOULD THIS BE ANOTHER INSTANCE WHERE WE WOULD DO THE STRAW POLL? THE QUESTION AS I'M HEARING IT RIGHT NOW IS, ARE YOU AS A BODY OKAY WITH A 20% NUMBER, 20% MAXIMUM WITH THE LANGUAGE THAT SAYS...
THIS IS WAIVABLE IF NECESSARY BECAUSE OF STATE OR FEDERAL REGULATORY RULES.
I WILL BRING YOU A RESOLUTION AND FINISH ORDINANCE.
MR. SORKIN, PLEASE BRING US A RESOLUTION THAT REFLECTS THIS CONVERSATION.
DOES IT REQUIRE SWAP VOTES? SHOULD WE DO THAT? I MEAN, I'M...
YEAH, TYPICALLY THERE IS AN INFORMAL VOTE.
IT'S A SHOW OF HANDS KIND OF A THING.
INFORMALLY, SHOW OF HANDS, WHO WOULD BE WILLING, WHO WOULD BE VOTING IN FAVOR OF SUCH A RESOLUTION? I THINK YOU HAVE YOUR NUMBERS, MR.
[9.A. Mass Timber Construction Discussion ]
FARFEE.MOVE ON TO OTHER BUSINESS, NUMBER NINE ON THE AGENDA, MASS TIMBER CONSTRUCTION DISCUSSION.
AT OUR LAST MEETING, WE BROUGHT THIS UP FOR DISCUSSION, AND TWO POINTS WERE RAISED.
YOU ASKED FOR INFORMATION ON MASS TIMBER.
[01:30:02]
ATTACHMENTS AND I GAVE YOU TWO DIFFERENT WEBSITES TO CHECK OUT.AND THEN YOU ASK FOR SUGGESTED UPDATES.
IT IS PRETTY EASY TO PUT THIS INTO AN MPUD ORDINANCE OR A COMMERCIAL PLANNED UNIT.
PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE, THOSE HAVE AMENITIES, LISTS OF AMENITIES, AND IT WOULD BE EASY TO PUT THIS IN THERE.
YOU KNOW, YOU DO THIS AND WE'LL GIVE YOU A WAIVERS LIST, OKAY? GOING BEYOND THAT IS A LONGER PROCESS.
LIKE, YOU'D HAVE TO CREATE A PROCESS.
LIKE, IF YOU SAID, I WANT IT IN ALL C2 ZONES, MMM.
I'M GOING TO HAVE TO SIT DOWN AND THINK ABOUT HOW TO DO THAT.
THIS GETS TO A LOT OF WHAT WAS CONCERNED WITH, BUT STAFF IS PREPARED TO GO IN WHATEVER DIRECTION YOU WANT ON THIS.
COMMISSIONER MCAULIFFE? THANKS.
I THINK I SUPPORT THE IDEA OF DIPPING OUR TOES IN THE WATER.
UNDER THE PUD ORDINANCE, IT SEEMS FAIRLY STRAIGHTFORWARD AND PROBABLY ONE OF THE SPOTS WHERE IT'S MOST LIKELY TO BE UTILIZED.
AND I WOULD SUPPORT THAT CHANGE AS A FIRST STEP.
AND IF WE WANT TO KEEP SCRATCHING OUR HEADS ABOUT HOW WE DO IT IN OTHER ZONES, THEN WE CAN KEEP SCRATCHING OUR HEAD.
COMMISSIONER SHUSBERG? JUST SO I UNDERSTAND CLEARLY, WE WOULD BE DOING THIS TO INCENTIVIZE ITS USE.
CURRENTLY THAT PREVENTS ITS USE IN ANY CONSTRUCTION.
IT'S JUST WE'RE LOOKING AT WAYS TO TRY TO ENCOURAGE THE DEVELOPER TO CONSIDER IT.
YEAH, SO AN MU-PED COMES IN, HAZLET VILLAGE, FOR INSTANCE.
ONE OF THEIR AMENITIES IS, WHAT ARE THEY, LIKE ART? OH, THE TRAILHEAD, YES, THE TRAILHEAD.
OK, WE WOULD BE ADDING TWO AMENITIES.
OF COURSE, SPECIFICS HAVE TO BE BANGED OUT.
LIKE I NOTED IN MY MEMO, THERE'S THREE LEVELS OF AMENITIES.
WHERE DOES THIS FIT? WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE BUILDING HAS TO BE? THINGS LIKE THAT.
THERE'S CONVERSATIONS TO BE HAD, BUT STAFF CAN...
WE'LL BRING THE LIST TO YOU AND TAKE IT FROM THERE, I GUESS.
MR. SHUSBECK? I'D BE REALLY CURIOUS TO SEE IF THERE ARE OTHER PLACES IN MICHIGAN OR ELSEWHERE THAT HAVE DONE THIS SUCCESSFULLY, LIKE PUT IT INTO THEIR CODE AND HOW THEY'VE DONE IT.
YOU KNOW, IF THEY'VE DONE SOMETHING LIKE WHAT WE'VE TRIED TO DO.
I BELIEVE EAST LANSING DID, AND THAT'S WHAT GOT IT ON THE CIA'S...
THEY PUT IT IN AN ORDINANCE THAT ISN'T REALLY ANALOGOUS TO OURS BECAUSE IT'S FOR DOWNTOWN REDEVELOPMENT AND ALLOWING EXTRA STORIES ON A DOWNTOWN BUILDING, YOU KNOW, SO IT'S NOT EXACTLY, I CAN'T JUST CUT AND PASTE THAT, BUT THEY DID AMEND THEIR ORDINANCE TO ALLOW MASS TIMBER CONSTRUCTION AS A BENEFIT, AS A WAY TO GET EXTRA SPACE.
SURE, I CAN LOOK MORE INDEFINITELY INTO THAT.
THERE ARE PLACES THAT ARE KIND OF CUTTING EDGE OR DOING IT SUCCESSFULLY.
AND LIKE, WE TRIED THIS, IT DIDN'T REALLY BRING IN WHAT WE THOUGHT, SO WE DID THIS, YOU KNOW, ANECDOTALLY.
I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER IF IT WAS HERE.
WE HEARD ABOUT A RESIDENCE HALL BEING BUILT IN GRAND RAPIDS, THE BIGGEST MASS TIMBER BUILDING IN THE STATE.
I THINK IT WAS AN EIGHT-STORY RESIDENTIAL BUILDING.
IT WAS NOT GRAND RAPIDS EXACTLY, BUT IN THAT AREA.
AND THE IDEA HERE THEN IS STILL THAT THE PUD OR THE MUPUD CAN BE DONE ALONG THE GRAND RIVER CORRIDOR, RIGHT? YEAH, YOU CAN DO AN MPUD ANYWHERE YOU'VE GOT THE APPROPRIATE ZONING FOR IT.
[01:35:06]
OKAY.OKAY, SO THEN A FOLLOW-UP QUESTION TO THAT FOR THE NEXT TIME WE TALK ABOUT THIS WOULD BE IS, BECAUSE THE CIA WAS INTERESTED IN THIS, DOES THAT INCLUDE ALL OF THE GRAND RIVER CORRIDOR? NO, NO, AND THAT'S THE POINT I MADE.
TO PUT THIS INTO THE MUP, THE ORDINANCE AS AN AMENITY, IS ONE THING.
NOT, I DON'T WANT TO SAY FIX, IT'S AN EASY ADDITION.
EVERYTHING IN THE CORRIDOR, TO MAKE IT AN AMENITY, TO MAKE IT LIKE AN INCENTIVE IN THE CORRIDOR, THAT'S GOING TO TAKE MORE WORK BECAUSE WHAT'S THE TRADEOFF? THERE IS NO MECHANISM IN PLACE FOR AMENITIES AND WAIVERS, LIKE IN THE MUPD ORDINANCE.
I'M NOT SAYING IT CAN'T BE CREATED, BUT THAT IS CREATING SOMETHING.
POTENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, MORE DISCUSSION.
OTHERS? WHAT'S YOUR NAME? SO, YEAH, LOOKING AT THE MPUD ORDINANCE, I THINK, YEAH, THROWING IT IN AT MAYBE LEVEL TWO SEEMS REALLY REASONABLE TO ME.
YEAH, SO IF I HAD TO VOTE ON SOMETHING RIGHT NOW, THAT'S PROBABLY WHERE I WOULD THINK WOULD BE A REASONABLE PLACE TO PUT IT.
CAN YOU SHOW US THOSE THREE LEVELS? YES.
WHERE DO YOU SEE CODES AND ORDINANCES? HERE WE GO.
YEAH, SO BEFORE I GET THERE, WHERE IS IT LOCATED? MUPD PROJECTS ARE PERMITTED IN THE C2, C3, CR ZONING DISTRICTS.
AND PERMITTED PO AND C1 WHEN ADJACENT AND THERE'S CONDITIONS.
JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA, THAT QUESTION CAME UP.
AMENITIES, SO PROJECT FEATURES COUNT AS THREE AMENITIES.
SO I THINK I CALLED THESE LEVEL THREE AMENITIES DURING THE HASLITT VILLAGE.
LEED CERTIFICATION, MULTI-LEVEL PARKING DECKS.
20% TOTAL UNITS, AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
YOU GET DOWN HERE, THESE COUNT AS TWO AMENITIES.
75% OF ALL BUILDINGS, NATURAL MATERIALS ON THEIR FACADES, GREEN ROOFS, EV STATIONS, OUTDOOR SEATING PLAZAS, AND THEN THESE ARE SINGLE AMENITIES.
GREEN SPACE, E-SCOOTER PARKING, WIRELESS ACCESS POINTS.
SO YEAH, ADDING UNDER THIS, ADDING 10 MASS TIMBER CONSTRUCTION, AND THEN ON WHAT PERCENT OF THE BUILDINGS, ET CETERA, THINGS LIKE THAT.
THAT'S A CONVERSATION WORTH HAVING, RATHER THAN JUST SAYING MASS TIMBER CONSTRUCTION, KIND OF NAILING IT DOWN A LITTLE BIT.
I'M GUESSING THE FOLKS AT MSU WOULD BE HAPPY TO SUGGEST DRAFT ORDINANCE LANGUAGE.
I CAN REACH OUT TO THEM AND ASK.
NOTHING WOULD THEN REQUIRE A VOTE TONIGHT, RIGHT? NO.
AND DO YOU HAVE THE GUIDANCE THAT YOU NEED? YEAH.
THESE AMENITIES AND A BULLET POINT AND UPDATED MEMO.
I MENTIONED THAT WE HAVE AMENITIES IN THE COMMERCIAL PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT.
I DON'T KNOW THAT WE HAVE ANYBODY USE THAT.
BUT IF WE'RE GOING TO OPEN THE HOOD, I'LL PUT THOSE THERE TOO BECAUSE WHY NOT? THAT SOUNDS RIGHT.
AND THEN IF YOU WANT TO TAKE THIS FURTHER,
[01:40:01]
WE CAN.NOT AT THE NEXT MEETING, BUT THE MEETING AFTER THAT.
[10.A. Township Board update ]
THANK YOU, MR. SHARKEY.SO WITH THAT, WE CAN MOVE ON TO 10, REPORTS AND ANNOUNCEMENTS, TOWNSHIP BOARD UPDATE.
APRIL 7TH, UNDER CONSENT AGENDA, THE TOWNSHIP BOARD DID AN APPOINTMENT FOR THE BROWNFIELD.
DID APPOINTMENTS FOR THE BROWNFIELD REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY AND THE ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSION.
I'M SURE YOU CAN TALK ABOUT THAT MORE SPECIFICALLY.
BOARD DISCUSSION ITEMS INCLUDED THE CAPSTONE PROJECT ON HANNA BOULEVARD AND THE JOLLY ROAD-TEXANDANI REZONING.
AND THEY ALSO DISCUSSED DATA CENTERS AND BATTERY STORAGE FACILITIES MORATORIUM.
THE DRAFT AGENDA FOR THE NEXT MEETING SHOWS THE CAPSTONE AND
[10.B. Liaison reports ]
THE TEXANDANI REZONING MOVING FORWARD.I FORGET WHO LIAISES AT THIS POINT.
I LIAISE WITH THE DBA, BUT THE DBA DIDN'T MEET THIS MONTH.
ANY OTHER LIAISON REPORTS? AT THE LAST MEETING OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSION, THANKS FOR THROWING ME UNDER THE BUS, WE HEARD THAT THERE MIGHT BE SOME NEW APPOINTMENTS TO BE MADE, BUT WE ALSO REVIEWED APPLICATIONS FOR THE GREEN GRANT PROGRAM FUNDED BY THE BOARD. I AND ANOTHER COMMISSIONER WERE RECUSED FROM THE CONVERSATION BECAUSE WE WERE BOTH MEMBERS OF HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS WHO HAD SUBMITTED APPLICATIONS FOR FINANCING GREEN INFRASTRUCTURE. AND INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, A CRITERION APPLIED TO PAST APPLICATIONS FROM HOAS WAS THAT THE AREA WHERE THE PROJECT WORK WAS DONE WOULD BE ACCESSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC. AND WE SHALL SEE HOW THAT PLAYS OUT WITH THOSE HOAS. HE SAYS OMINOUSLY. IF I MIGHT, MY HOA HAS SOME... ARCHAIC RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS. AS FAR AS I KNOW, THEY'RE NOT REALLY ILLEGAL AS SOME OTHERS, BUT THEY ARE. AND OUR PRACTICE IS REGULARLY TO DEFER TO TOWNSHIP ORDINANCE BECAUSE THERE'S A CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER. YOU CAN GO KNOCK ON THE DOOR. RATHER THAN GOING AND FILING A SUIT AND HIRING SOMEBODY TO BE SERVED AND TRY AND TAKE THEM TO COURT, WHICH DIFFERENT GROUPS HAVE DIFFERENT PROCESSES. OURS IS...
IN GREAT NEED OF REFORM. MY HOA BYLAWS, WHERE I LIVE, HAVE NOT BEEN REWRITTEN SINCE 1986. AND IRONICALLY, THAT'S WHEN THEY WERE WRITTEN THE FIRST TIME. IF ANYBODY WANTS TO GEEK ON HOMEOWNERSHIP, HOA RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS, I'D BE HAPPY TO DO THAT OFFLINE. ANY OTHER LIAISON REPORTS? PROJECT UPDATES? I BELIEVE I DID NOT SEE A PROJECT UPDATE. NO, NOTHING THIS MONTH. NOTHING
[13. COMMISSIONER COMMENTS]
COMING THROUGH. PUBLIC REMARKS? THERE ARE NO MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC. COMMISSIONER COMMENTS? COMMISSIONER NAHUM? SO A QUICK THING ABOUT THE DISCUSSION FROM THE TOWNSHIP BOARD ABOUT THE POSSIBLE DATA CENTER MORATORIUM. THE DISCUSSION SEEMED TO BE THE CASE THAT THEY WERE CONSIDERING A MORATORIUM TO GIVE TIME TO CONSIDER WHAT IS THE APPROPRIATE SORT OF REGULATION FOR DATA CENTERS AND BATTERY STORAGE CENTERS WITHIN THE TOWNSHIP. AND I PRESUME THAT SORT OF REGULATION WOULD PROBABLY BE COMING TO US TO HAVE TO COME UP WITH THAT.SO JUST SOMETHING TO KEEP ON YOUR AGENDA THAT WE MAY HAVE THAT COMING TOWARDS US. MY RESIGNATION WILL BE SHORTLY BEFORE THAT. COMMISSIONER NEWHAM, DO I RECALL THAT WE WERE WAITING TO SEE IF YOU WERE GOING TO BE DAD BY THIS MEETING? YES, I AM NOT DAD BY THIS MEETING, BUT I EXPECT TO BE TOMORROW. I EXPECT TO BE TOMORROW. WELL, CONGRATULATIONS. ANY OTHER COMMISSIONER COMMENTS? HEARING NONE, I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ADJOURN. SO MOVED. SECOND.
WE HAVE MOVED BY COMMISSIONER BROOKS, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER MCCONNELL. I THINK I HEARD FIRST. ALL IN FAVOR, AYE. AYE. OPPOSED? YAY. THAT VOTE SHOULD BE YAY. YAY.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.