[00:00:01] GOOD EVENING. IT IS 6:30PM AND WE ARE GOING TO OFFICIALLY CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER [INAUDIBLE] EVERYTHING. ALL RIGHT. GOOD EVENING. IT IS WEDNESDAY, JUNE 18TH, 2025. WELCOME TO THE CHARTER TOWNSHIP MERIDIAN ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS MEETING. FIRST, WE WILL BEGIN WITH A ROLL CALL. IT'S OKAY. I WAS LIKE BRANT. I SAID MY FIRST NAME. I'M HERE. I ASKED EARLIER TO. I SAID BETTER EARLIER. THEY'RE LIKE, NO, IT'S BROOKS, I APOLOGIZE. THAT'S OKAY AND ALL RIGHT. NOW THAT WE GOT ALL THE AWKWARDNESS OUT OF THE WAY. WELL, I'M LOOKING FOR APPROVAL OF TONIGHT'S AGENDA. [2. APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA] IF ANYBODY HAS ANY APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA AS PRESENTED. I'LL SECOND. OKAY. ANY THOUGHTS ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA? IF NOT, THIS IS A VOTE TO APPROVE TONIGHT'S AGENDA. TONIGHT'S AGENDA HAS BEEN APPROVED, SO WE'LL MOVE ON TO RATIFICATION OF MINUTES, OF WHICH WE HAVE NONE. THIS. I'M ASSUMING THAT'S GOING TO BE FOR OUR NEXT MONTH, WE'LL GET. WE'LL HAVE BOTH. OKAY. SOUNDS GOOD AND THAT BRINGS US TO COMMUNICATIONS, WHICH I BELIEVE WE TRY TO TYPICALLY ROLL INTO OUR NEW [4. COMMUNICATIONS] BUSINESS AS IT COMES UP. WOULD THAT BE SAFE TO SAY, MR. CHAPMAN? CORRECT. OKAY. WE WILL ACKNOWLEDGE WE HAVE TWO COMMUNICATIONS THAT ARE ATTACHED TO ZBA. CASE NUMBER 25-04. WE HAVE NO UNFINISHED BUSINESS, SO WE MOVE DIRECTLY INTO NEW BUSINESS. [6.A. ZBA CASE NO.: 25-04 (2952 Footman), David & Luanne Price, 2952 Footman Drive, East Lansing, MI 48823] WHICH BRINGS US TO ZBA CASE NUMBER 25- 04 2952 FOOTMEN DAVID AND LUANN PRICE 2952 FOOTMAN DRIVE, EAST LANSING, 48823. GO AHEAD, MR. CHAPMAN. OKAY, SO THE APPLICANT'S INTENDING TO ENCLOSE AN EXISTING ON ENCLOSED DECK LOCATED ON THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF THEIR EXISTING SINGLE FAMILY HOME. THIS WILL BE ON AN ENCLOSED PORCH AND MEASURES APPROXIMATELY 16FT BY 17FT IN AREA. THE APPLICANT INTENDS TO REPLACE THE ENCLOSED PORCH WITH THE NEW ENCLOSED PORCH SLASH THREE SEASON ROOM, WHICH MEASURES 16FT BY 17FT, 3.5IN IN AREA AND THIS WOULD ENCROACH INTO THE REQUIRED REAR YARD SETBACK. THE EXISTING ENCLOSED PORCH IS PERMITTED UNDER 86 564B TO ENCROACH INTO THE REAR SETBACK EIGHT FEET. IT'S LOCATED 21FT EIGHT INCHES AT ITS CLOSEST POINT FROM THE REAR PROPERTY LINE, AND ENCROACHES EIGHT FEET SIX INCHES INTO THE REAR YARD SETBACK. THE PROPOSED ENCLOSED PORCH WILL BE CONSTRUCTED IN PLACE OF THE EXISTING ENCLOSED BASICALLY, THE ENCLOSED PORCHES ARE CONSIDERED AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE PRINCIPAL BUILDING, SO THEY HAVE TO MEET THE SAME SETBACKS WHICH IN THIS CASE IS THE REAR YARD SETBACK OF THE UNDERLYING ZONING DISTRICT, AND THE SETBACK IS 30FT IN THIS CASE. THE LOT HAS A DEPTH OF 124FT, AND THE ENCLOSED PORCH IS PROPOSED TO BE LOCATED IN PLACE OF THE EXISTING ENCLOSED PORCH AND IS SETBACK 21FT, SIX INCHES FROM THE REAR PROPERTY LINE. WHICH IS LOCATED EIGHT FEET SIX INCHES INTO THAT REQUIRED REAR YARD SETBACK. SO A VARIANCE OF EIGHT FEET SIX INCHES IS REQUESTED. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, MR. CHAPMAN. WOULD THE APPLICANT OR THE APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATIVE LIKE TO COME UP AND SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THIS CASE? WHO'S UP? COME ON UP TO THE PODIUM. YOU'RE GOING TO STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD. PLEASE, SIR. MY NAME IS MATT NELSON, AND OUR ADDRESS FOR THE BUSINESS IS 707051 WEST PARKS ROAD IN SAINT JOHN'S, MICHIGAN. SO, ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE TO ADD TO WHAT MR. CHAPMAN PRESENTED TO US? JUST. I MEAN, WE DID WRITE OUT THERE'S A THING IN THERE. I WROTE UP KIND OF TALKING ABOUT THE REQUEST. THEY HAVE AN EXISTING ADDITION, AND THIS IS BASICALLY THE SAME DEPTH INTO THE SETBACK AREA THAT IS, I THINK IT'S A ONE FOOT ADDITIONAL JUST BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE DESIGN IS FOR THE STRUCTURE TO BE ABLE TO TIE IN PROPERLY. [00:05:03] SO, YOU KNOW, THE MAIN GOAL IS TO GIVE THEM BETTER LIVING SPACE. THEY HAVE A FORESTED AREA BEHIND THEM THAT HAS A LOT OF BUGS AND MOSQUITOES, AND IT'S A LITTLE HARD TO USE THE OUTDOOR SPACE. SO THE GOAL OF THE PROJECT IS TO GIVE THEM A PROPER ENCLOSED PORCH SPACE THAT THEY CAN USE KIND OF MORE THROUGHOUT THE NICE SEASONS OF THE YEAR. SO THAT SAID, THERE'S NO SURROUNDING NEIGHBORS THAT ARE IN VIEW OF THIS, YOU KNOW, THE NEIGHBORS THAT THEY DO HAVE, I THINK THEY GOT LETTERS FROM STATED THAT THEY AGREE WITH THEIR APPROVAL OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE PROJECT AS WELL. SO YEAH. ALL RIGHT. WOULD ANYBODY ELSE LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS CASE THIS EVENING? IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD, WE'LL JUST, HAVE YOU STAY UP HERE, MR. NELSON, AND WE'LL BE ABLE TO ASK SOME QUESTIONS. ANY QUESTIONS? OKAY. ANYBODY ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS CASE THIS EVENING? IF NOT, WE'RE GOING TO CLOSE PUBLIC COMMENT AND GET INTO BOARD TIME. ALL RIGHT. PUBLIC COMMENT IS CLOSED FOR THE MOMENT AND WE WILL GO INTO BOARD TIME. ANY QUESTIONS OR ANYTHING TO START OFF WITH? I WOULD ACKNOWLEDGE TO JUST FOR THE MINUTES THAT WE DID RECEIVE COMMUNICATIONS FROM REUBEN AND SHANNON MESA AND RON AND LORRAINE [INAUDIBLE] BOTH THAT SUPPORTED THIS VARIANCE. SO THAT IS NOTED FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD. THEY ARE NEIGHBORS THAT ARE IN SUPPORT OF, THIS PARTICULAR VARIANCE. SO, ANY QUESTIONS? YES, MA'AM. I THINK THIS IS FOR MR. CHAPMAN. LOOKING AT THE DESIGN, IT APPEARS THIS HOUSE IS ALREADY INTRUDING ONTO THE SETBACK ON THE EAST SIDE. IS THAT TRUE? YEAH. IT IS. I MEAN, IT WAS BUILT IN 1978, SO I CAN'T REALLY SPEAK. I DON'T HAVE ANY VARIANCES THAT WERE FOR THIS PROPERTY, SO I CAN'T REALLY SPEAK ON HOW THAT HAPPENS. SO FOR ALL INSTANCES, IT'S NON-CONFORMING. SHOULD THIS APPLICATION BE AMENDED TO INCLUDE THAT? NO. I PERSONALLY DON'T HAVE A LOT OF STRUCTURAL QUESTIONS. I THINK THAT I COULD ADDRESS YOU KNOW, MINIMUM ACTION. OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE REPLACING WHAT EXISTS WITH SOMETHING MORE PERMANENT. SO I DO UNDERSTAND THE NEED FOR THE ORDINANCE. I'M CURIOUS IF ANYBODY HAS ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT WHEN WE START TO APPLY THE CRITERIA. SO IF THAT WILL HELP WITH QUESTIONS, I CAN START WITH CRITERIA THAT SOUND GOOD. ALL RIGHT. SO THE FIRST CRITERIA WOULD BE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES EXIST THAT ARE PECULIAR TO THE LAND OR STRUCTURE THAT ARE NOT APPLICABLE TO OTHER LAND OR STRUCTURES IN THE SAME ZONING DISTRICT AND THESE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE NOT SELF-CREATED. I THINK THE ANSWER THAT WAS GIVEN BY THE APPLICANT, BY MR. NELSON'S LETTER HERE IS THAT BECAUSE THEY'RE REPLACING, LET'S SEE, REPLACING A DECK, REPLACING A DECK, AND UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES BEING THAT THEY ONLY HAVE ONE NEIGHBOR AND ONE NEIGHBORING HOUSE AND THE PROPOSED ADDITION IS HIDDEN. SO IT'S NOT OBSTRUCTING ANYONE'S VIEW. IT'S ALSO SURROUNDED BY THE TOWER WOULD PRESERVE. SO THERE'S NO YOU KNOW, NO SIGHTLINES FROM THE ROAD OR ANYTHING TO THAT NATURE. SO UNIQUENESS IS IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING. YEAH. WHICH IS NICE. I GUESS I HAD A QUESTION FOR THE BUILDER. SURE. SOME PLACES DESCRIBED THIS AS A BUILT ON DECK STYLE. YEAH. SO WE'RE BUILDING AN ENCLOSED ROOM, SO IT'LL HAVE, LIKE, WINDOWS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, BUT IT'S NOT LIKE A HEATED AND COOLED ROOM. THEY'RE JUST USING IT AS, LIKE A THREE SEASON TYPE SPACE. BUT IT IS BUILT ON LIKE A DECK FRAME. SO INSTEAD OF HAVING LIKE A FULL CONCRETE FOUNDATION THAT'S GOING TO UPSET, YOU KNOW, SOIL AND EVERYTHING ELSE, WE'RE JUST GOING TO BE DIGGING HOLES FOR POSTS LIKE WE WOULD WITH A TYPICAL DECKER, OFTEN DONE WITH THREE SEASON AND FOUR SEASON TYPE BUILDS. SO THE ONLY ONLY THING WE'RE GOING TO UPSET WITH ANY OF THE SOIL OR NATURAL, YOU KNOW. DRAIN INTO THE PROPERTY OR ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE WOULD BE JUST DIGGING THOSE HOLES AND REFILLING THEM SO YOU DON'T YOU WON'T HAVE A BIG FOUNDATION THAT WE'RE PULLING OUT, DIGGING AND CHANGING THE GRADE AND FLOW OF THE, YOU KNOW, NATURAL WATER AND EVERYTHING OUT THERE. THAT'S HOW I INTERPRET IT. SO THIS WILL NOT BE ENCLOSED UNDERNEATH THE ROOM? [00:10:05] NO, IT'LL BE OPEN. YEP. IT WILL HAVE LIKE A LATTICEWORK. IT WILL HAVE LIKE A LATTICE WORK DOWN THERE. BUT IT WON'T BE LIKE FULLY ENCLOSED OR ANYTHING. SO. RIGHT. IS THE ORIGINAL PORCH OR IS THE CONCRETE PAD PORCH? IS THAT FROM THE ORIGINAL HOUSE? YEAH. SO THE SECTION LIKE ON THE SITE PLAN, YOU CAN SEE TO WHAT I BELIEVE IS THE I DON'T SEE THE NORTH INDICATOR, BUT I BELIEVE IT'S TO THE SOUTH OF THE ADDITION THAT WE HAVE. THAT'S THE SOUTH OF YOUR EDITION. CORRECT? THE EDITION. WE'RE DOING YOUR EXISTING ADDITIONS TO THE. YOU SCROLL DOWN A LITTLE BIT MORE. KEITH. YEAH. NORTH. SO IT'S TO THE EAST. THE ADDITIONS. I'M SORRY. THE ADDITIONS TO THE EAST WAS IF IT WAS AN EDITION OR PART OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE IS ALREADY THERE AND IT HAS A CONCRETE FOUNDATION UNDER IT. SO THAT'S THERE CURRENTLY AND THAT'S WHAT THEIR EXISTING DECK WHERE WE'RE BUILDING THE NEW EDITION, THAT'S WHERE THE EXISTING SECTION DECK IS THE SAME SIZE AS THE EDITION THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY BUILDING AND IT'S ATTACHED TO THE EXISTING HOUSE ON BOTH THOSE SIDES. SO IT'S NOT CONCRETE. IT'S A DECK. CORRECT. YEAH. WELL, THAT EXISTING PART OF THE HOUSE TO THE EAST. SO OKAY, SO THAT SECTION WHERE KEITH'S HOVERING OVER THAT IS EXISTING NOW AND THAT'S ON A CONCRETE FOUNDATION. OKAY. THAT IS OH, THAT'S ANOTHER ADDITION YOU DID AT A PREVIOUS TIME THEY WERE ASSUMING IT WAS THERE. OKAY. AND YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN IN YOUR HOUSE NEXT TO IT? I SEE. OKAY. HOW LONG HAVE YOU GUYS BEEN IN YOUR HOUSE? SEVEN OR SO. YEAH. PREEXISTING [INAUDIBLE]. NOW, IS THAT A DECK THERE THAT'S ELEVATED THAT YOU'RE REPLACING? YEAH. THE DECK IS THE SAME. IT'S THE SAME HEIGHT AS THE FLOOR OF THE HOUSE AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE REPLACING. WE'RE REPLACING THAT DECK WITH THIS. YEAH. HIGH OFF THE GROUND IS THAT. APPROXIMATELY. IT'S LIKE FOUR FOOT OFF THE GROUND. THE GROUND? LIKE THE GRADING DROPS IN THE YARD, SO, LIKE, UP TOWARDS THE HOUSE IS PROBABLY LIKE, THREE FEET AND THEN WHEN YOU GET OUT TO THEN IT'S PROBABLY LIKE 4 TO 5FT. THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE. YEAH. OKAY. THANK YOU. JUST KEEP SCROLLING DOWN FROM THERE. OKAY. SO THE EDGE OF THEIR PROPERTY LINE, YOU'RE PROBABLY MORE LIKE SIX FOOT DOWN FROM THE HOUSE OR BETTER. ALL RIGHT. SO AS FAR AS UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES GO IT'S, AN EXISTING STRUCTURE. SO IT'S SOMETHING THEY'RE TRYING TO WORK WITH. WHAT THEY HAVE. I COULD MEAN UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES BASED ON THAT MEMBER. YEAH, I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE SPLITTING UP AGAINST THAT NATURE PRESERVE OF THE WOODS. I MEAN, WE'VE GOT HOUSES LIKE THAT OVER THE TOWNSHIP THAT DO THAT, SO I WOULDN'T CONSIDER THAT UNIQUE. HOWEVER, I DO AGREE WITH YOU, MADAM CHAIR, THAT I THINK THE UNIQUENESS OF THIS IS THAT THERE'S AN EXISTING PART OF THE STRUCTURE THAT WHO KNOWS WHEN THAT WAS BUILT. THERE HAS NO VARIANCE ON THAT'S ALREADY ENCROACHING INTO THE SETBACK. RIGHT. THIS IS AN EXISTING DECK THAT THEY'RE NOT. THE STRUCTURE ITSELF IS NOT EVEN THOUGH IT'S BEING COVERED ENCLOSED. IT'S NOT EXPANDING. RIGHT. SO THAT TO ME IS I MEAN I KNOW THESE SOME OF THESE CRITERIA ARE A LITTLE SUBJECTIVE. SO THAT TO ME IS THE SUBJECTIVE PART OF IT IS, YOU KNOW, COULD THERE BE A UNIQUE SITUATION? I MY BELIEF IS THERE IS JUST BECAUSE PART OF THAT BUILDING AND I KNOW YOUR NEIGHBOR AT 2940, IT LOOKS LIKE PART OF THEIR BACK OF THEIR BUILDING IS AWFULLY CLOSE TO BEING IN THAT SETBACK AS WELL. SO AND BUT IT'S NOT EVERY BUILDING. SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S PARTICULAR TO THIS PROPERTY. WELL, I THINK MR. CHAPMAN POINTED OUT TO YOU IF THESE HOMES WERE BUILT BEFORE, PRIOR TO THIS CODE. SO NOW THEY'RE NOW NON-CONFORMING. SO ISH. KIND OF LOOKING LIKE IT MIGHT BE, BUT PRIOR TO THESE SETBACKS EXISTENCE. SO THE CODE THE BASIC CODE IS 1960. SO AFTER BUT IF IT WAS REZONED AT SOME POINT IN TIME, WHICH I DIDN'T COME ACROSS EITHER. OKAY. I'M NOT SURE. INTERESTING. YEAH. BUT AS MR. CANNON POINTED OUT, THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR LOOKS LIKE IT IS. YEAH. SO IF SOMETHING HAPPENED, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED WITH THOSE BUILDERS. I THINK I REMEMBER LOOKING AT THE CODE. I THINK THE PART OF THE ORDINANCE, IF. CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, MR. CHAPMAN. BUT I THOUGHT IT SAID SOMETHING ABOUT WHICH, AGAIN, LIKE I SAID LAST MEETING ONE THING IN THE CODE THAT I'VE NEVER SEEN IT ANYWHERE ELSE I'VE WALKED OR SEE, I'VE NEVER SEEN THIS, YOU KNOW, ON ENCLOSED PORCHES AND THAT CAN BE EIGHT FEET INTO A SETBACK. I'VE NEVER SEEN THAT BEFORE, BUT THAT'S IN OUR CODE, SO THAT'S GOOD. BUT I THOUGHT THAT WAS A RELATIVELY NEWER I REMEMBER SEEING THAT OR WAS THAT I THOUGHT IT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS AMENDED IN 2022, OR MAYBE I WAS LOOKING AT THE WRONG PIECE OF THE CODE. SO SPECIFICALLY WE DID AMEND A PORTION OF IT. [00:15:01] YEAH. NOT THAT REGARDING THAT HAS BEEN THERE FOR A WHILE, BECAUSE WE TOOK THE REST OF THAT SECTION I THINK WAS FROM 74. YEAH. OKAY. SO I CAN LOOK BUT YEAH, I KNOW SOMETHING WAS 2022, BUT I COULDN'T REMEMBER. I THINK WE AMENDED THE CODE AS IT APPLIED TO THE LAKE LANSING OVERLAY DISTRICT. BUT THERE'S SOMETHING SPECIFIC IN THERE FOR THAT BACK. YEAH. ON DICK'S ON DICK'S PARTICULAR. SO WE DID AMEND THE NUMBER OF DECKS YOU COULD HAVE ON YOUR HOUSE AND I BELIEVE THAT WAS 2022 TOO, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, BECAUSE IT WAS LIMITED TO TWO AND WE GOT RID OF THAT. YEAH, I DON'T THINK THAT WAS IT THOUGH. I DID SEE SOMETHING IN THERE THAT I THINK I FOUND AS WELL THAT HAD TO DO WITH DAX. AND THIS WAS SPECIFIC TO THIS PARTICULAR CODE BY EIGHT FOOT. SO I MEAN. SO THERE YOU GO. I MEAN, WE'RE AT EIGHT SIX. SO REALLY IT'S LIKE YOU'RE AT SIX INCHES OVER WHICH CODE NUMBER. AGAIN, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MINIMUM ACTION 564 IS WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR. IF YOU GO DOWN TO BE WHAT WAS I LOOKING AT. SO YEAH. SEE THE SO YEAH THE B ROOFED ENCLOSED ROOF. YEAH. C IS REQUIRED SIDE OF REAR DISTANCE NOT TO EXCEED NOT TO. SO THAT LOOKS LIKE SECTION B WAS AMENDED. SO THAT'S A RELATIVELY RECENT WAY I'M READING THIS A RELATIVELY RECENT ORDINANCE REQUIREMENT TO ALLOW IT TO BE EIGHT FEET, WHICH ALLOW IT TO BE, WHICH IS A GOOD THING THAT'S ACTUALLY HELPING YOUR CASE OUT. YEAH, RIGHT. AND THE REST OF IT'S ALL FROM 1970. BUT YEAH. SO THIS WAS IT WAS AMENDED BECAUSE THERE WAS A REQUIREMENT THAT SAID YOU COULD ONLY HAVE TWO ON YOUR HOUSE. THAT WAS ALL THAT WAS TAKEN. SO IT WAS JUST REMOVED. YEAH. THAT MAKES SENSE. OKAY. I'M BEATING THAT ONE DEAD HORSE SO WE CAN MOVE ON. WELL, THE NEXT SECTION TALKS ABOUT ENCLOSED PORCHES ON SOLID FOUNDATIONS, AND I QUESTION WHETHER A POST IS A SOLID FOUNDATION. YEAH. SO AS AN ENCLOSED STRUCTURE WITH A SOLID FOUNDATION RATHER AS WELL, IT SAYS ENCLOSED EITHER ONE STORY OR AN ENCLOSED HAVING A SOLID FOUNDATION. SO ENCLOSED CHANGES THAT. SO THAT'S WHERE WE FIND THE NEED FOR VARIANCE. ALRIGHT. WELL THEN I THINK LOOKING AT THE CODE WE CAN GO TO CRITERIA NUMBER TWO WHICH IS STRICT INTERPRETATION AND ENFORCEMENT OF THE LITERAL TERMS AND PROVISIONS OF THIS CHAPTER, WOULD RESULT IN PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES THAT WOULD PREVENT THE OWNER FROM USING THE PROPERTY FOR A PERMITTED PURPOSE. I MEAN, I THINK WE CAN SEE HERE, IF WE'RE LOOKING AT WHAT THEY HAVE EXISTING, THEY'RE SIX INCHES OVER THERE AND ACTUALLY NOT WHAT'S EXISTING. YOU'RE ADDING A FOOT, IS THAT CORRECT? SO WHAT'S EXISTING IS SEVEN SIX? YEAH. COMPARED TO THE EXISTING STRUCTURE WE'RE ONE FOOT FOOT FURTHER, WHICH IS MOSTLY FOR JUST WHAT'S EXISTING IS NOT THAT PORTION IS NOT NON-CONFORMING. WELL, THE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY WOULD BE IF THEY WANTED TO ENCLOSE THEIR PORCH AND STAY OUTSIDE THESETBACK, IT WOULD BE A VERY NARROW ENCLOSED PORCH. YEAH. YEAH. WE DID LOOK AT LIKE, OTHER AVENUES FOR A DESIGN THAT WOULD WORK WITH WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. WE'D BE DOWN TO A DESIGN THAT REALLY WOULDN'T FUNCTION. IT'S NOT FUNCTIONAL. YOU KNOW. YEAH. AT ALL. REALLY? FOR THE INTENDED PURPOSE? YEAH. YEAH. I COULD SEE THAT AS BEING A PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY, NOT BEING ABLE TO USE THE STRUCTURE IN AND OF ITSELF. YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE NOT ABLE TO EVEN SIT OUT THERE AND MAKE IT A SPACE THAT YOU CAN USE. WHY TAKE AND SPEND THE MONEY ON ENCLOSING IT? RIGHT. I COULD SEE A PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY THERE. CURIOUS IF ANYBODY ELSE CAN JOIN ME IN MEETING THAT CRITERIA? I BELIEVE SO. I WOULD ASSUME WHEN IT COMES TO BUILDING DECKS AND ENGINEERING IN GENERAL, THAT, YOU KNOW, IT COMES DOWN TO INCHES AND FEET SOMETIMES TO MAKE IT WORK. SO IF IT JUST HAPPENS TO GO OVER BY SIX INCHES, IF THAT'S WHAT'S NEEDED TO WORK. YEAH. RIGHT. AND IN THIS CASE, THAT'S WHY IT KIND OF HAS THE UNIQUE DEPTH THAT IT DOES IS JUST BECAUSE THE WAY WE WERE TYING IT IN, GETTING THE ROOF WORK, SINCE THEY HAVE THE EXISTING PART OF THEIR HOUSE COMING OUT THERE NOW, WE JUST WANTED TO TIE IN OUR WAY WHERE THE WATER SHIED AWAY FROM THERE PROPERLY AND, YOU KNOW, TO GET AND THAT'S THE FULL SIZE OF THE EXISTING DECK AND EVERYTHING LIKE THAT. SO CHANGING IT, YOU KNOW, TO COME IN FURTHER, THEY HAVE LIKE AN EXISTING WINDOW ON THEIR HOUSE NOW. SO WE'D HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, WE'D HAVE TO SPEND MORE MONEY, TO REPLACE AND REMOVE THAT WINDOW AND, YOU KNOW, IT END UP JUST BEING A SMALL ROOM AND A HIGHER COST TO TRY AND REALLY DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT. AND THAT'S KIND OF THE CHALLENGES WE'RE FACING WITH THAT. [00:20:04] I WOULD POINT OUT THAT THIS ISN'T A SIX INCH VARIANCE. IT'S AN 8.5FT VARIANCE. RIGHT? IT'S ONLY SIX INCHES, MAYBE LONG, DEEPER THAN THE EXISTING DECK. RIGHT. BUT THERE'S DIFFERENT RULES, CORRECT? YEAH. I CAN SEE THE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY WITH THAT, WITH THE BUILDING CONCEPT OF IT AS WELL. IF YOU'RE TRYING TO MATCH UP WITH THE BACK OF THE EXISTING HOME AND TRYING TO TIE IN THE ROOFLINE, I MEAN, THAT DOES GET TO BE MORE COMPLEX AND DEFINITELY COULD BE SOME PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES FOR BUILDING AND FOR USE. SO I CAN MEET THE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY STANDARD THERE. ALL RIGHT. THIRD CRITERIA IS GRANTING THE VARIANCE IS THE MINIMUM ACTION NECESSARY THAT WOULD CARRY OUT THE SPIRIT OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE, SECURE PUBLIC SAFETY AND PROVIDE SUBSTANTIAL JUSTICE AND I DO THINK THAT, AGAIN, AS I JUST POINTED OUT, IT'S A 8.5FT VARIANCE BECAUSE IT'S ENCLOSED. RIGHT? WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT. YOU KNOW, IT'S THIS IS AS MINIMUM AS IT GETS. I WOULD SAY, I THINK IF THIS WAS A STRUCTURE THAT WAS PROTRUDING 20FT INTO THE BACK OF THEIR YARD. WITH NO APPARENT RHYME OR REASON TO IT. IT WOULD, YOU KNOW, NOT FEEL MINIMUM. BUT CONSIDERING THAT IT'S USING THE EXISTING FOOTPRINT, MATCHING UP THE YOU KNOW, THE REAR OF THE HOME THAT'S ALREADY EXISTING. I COULD SEE THAT THIS WOULD BE A MINIMUM ACTION MEMBER. WELL, THE OTHER THING IS THAT I THINK I'D HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION IF THIS WAS AN ENCLOSED FOUNDATION DOWN TO THE GROUND, BUT THIS IS NOT REALLY INFRINGING ON ANY OF THE WATER FLOW OR ANYTHING ELSE. SO I THINK THAT'S MINIMAL. YEAH, I THINK THAT'S A GREAT POINT. ALL RIGHT. CRITERIA NUMBER FOUR IS GRANTING THE VARIANCE WILL NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT ADJACENT LAND OR THE CENTRAL CHARACTER OF THE VICINITY OF THE PROPERTY. I WOULD THINK THAT BASED ON THE COMMUNICATIONS THAT WE RECEIVE FROM NEIGHBORS AND ALSO KNOWING THAT IT IS SURROUNDED ON, YOU KNOW, THREE, 2 OR 3 SIDES BY THAT NATURE RESERVE. OBVIOUSLY, THIS ISN'T A IN ANYBODY'S SIGHTLINES OR, YOU KNOW, IN ANY WAY GOING TO NEGATIVELY AFFECT. SO I WOULD SAY IT WOULD NOT. IT WOULD IT COULD MEET THAT CRITERIA THAT WILL NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT ADJACENT LAND. AND CRITERIA NUMBER FIVE IS GRANTED. THE VARIANCE WILL GENERALLY CONSIST WITH PUBLIC INTEREST AND THE PURPOSES AND INTENT OF THIS CHAPTER. I THINK WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THE CODE, I THINK I CAN SEE, THE REASON FOR IT TO BE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE ENCLOSED AND THE ENCLOSED PORCHES. BUT I DO THINK THAT THIS GRANTING THIS VARIANCE WILL STAY WITHIN THAT SPIRIT, JUST BASED ON THE FACT THAT THIS IS, AGAIN, MATCHING UP TO THE EXISTING HOME, NOT AN EGREGIOUSLY LARGE, YOU KNOW, ADDITION AND IT'S NOT GOING TO DISRUPT OR INTERRUPT ANY OF THE NEIGHBORING HOMES OR NEGATIVELY AFFECT THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO I CAN MAKE CRITERIA. FINE. ANY THOUGHTS OR CONCERNS ON ANY OF THOSE CRITERIA. ALL RIGHT. WELL, IN THAT CASE, WE HAVE A MOTION. MEMBER EXERCISE. I MOVE THAT WE GRANT THE ZONING VARIANCE REQUESTED FOR 25- 04 2952 FOOTMAN FOR DAVID AND LLOYD PRICE. 2952 FOOTMAN DRIVE, EAST LANSING. OKAY, I'LL SECOND THAT. ALL RIGHT. LET'S SEE. NO. GO AHEAD. I'LL SECOND THE MOTION. OKAY. SECONDED BY MEMBER BENWELL. ALL RIGHT. ANY DISCUSSION OR CONCERNS ON THE MOTION? ALL RIGHT. THEN WE'LL GO AHEAD AND VOTE ON THE MOTION TO APPROVE THIS VARIANCE. SO YOUR VARIANCE HAS BEEN APPROVED. THANK YOU SO MUCH. APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. I'M SORRY. DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR US, SENATOR? YOU ARE ALL SET. THANK YOU SO MUCH, YOU GUYS. THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANKS FOR WORKING WELL WITH THE TOWNSHIP. AND GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR ENCLOSED PORCH. THAT'S GREAT. YOU TOO. THANK YOU. YEAH. OKAY. THEN WE'LL BRING US TO ZBA CASE NUMBER 25-05 AND LET'S SEE IT IS. [6.B. ZBA CASE NO.: 25-05 (1942 Wilder), Robert P. Filter, 1942 Wilder Court, Haslett, MI 48840] LET ME GET BACK TO MY AGENDA. THERE WE GO. 1942 WILDER, ROBERT FILTER. [00:25:03] 1942 WILDER COURT HASLETT MICHIGAN, 48840. AND I'M GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO MEMBER KOENIG FOR JUST A MOMENT. WHO WANTS TO PUT SOMETHING ON THE RECORD? YES. THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. SO I WANTED TO MAKE IT CLEAR FOR THE RECORD THAT I DO KNOW THE APPLICANT, MR. FILTER. I DON'T KNOW HIM SUPER WELL, BUT I KNOW HIM WELL ENOUGH TO BE DANGEROUS. HE LIVES ON THE SAME CUL DE SAC. SO I'VE GONE GOLFING WITH HIM A FEW TIMES, AND I'M FAMILIAR WITH THIS PROJECT AND WHAT HE'S INTENDING TO DO, SO. ALRIGHT. JUST FOR SAFETY'S SAKE AND DUE PROCESS SO EVERYONE CAN BE FAIR. I DID WANT TO RECUSE MYSELF FROM VOTING ON THIS TONIGHT. SO PACK UP AND STEP OUT WHILE YOU GUYS. ALL RIGHT. WE JUST NEED A QUICK VOTE. OKAY. SO WE THIS IS A VOTE TO APPROVE. MEMBER KOENIG. ABSTAINING FROM FROM VOTING ON THIS CASE. NUMBER 25-05. OKAY. THANK YOU. GET OUT OF HERE. ALL RIGHT. IN THAT CASE, NOW THAT WE'VE TAKEN CARE OF OUR BUSINESS. MR. CHAPMAN, GO AHEAD AND TELL US ALL ABOUT IT. YEAH. SO THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING TO CONSTRUCT AN ATTACHED CARPORT ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE SINGLE FAMILY HOME. THE WORK WAS STARTED WITHOUT A PERMIT, AND STAFF NOTIFIED THE APPLICANT IN APRIL. THE CARPORT IS PROPOSED TO BE TEN FEET BY 21FT IN SIZE. THE ATTACHED CARPORT IS SHOWN FIVE FEET FROM THE WEST PROPERTY LINE AT ITS CLOSEST POINT. THE ZONING ORDINANCE REQUIRES ADDITIONS TO THE PRINCIPAL STRUCTURE TO BE SEVEN FEET FROM THE SIDE PROPERTY LINE. SO A TWO FOOT VARIANCE FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE ATTACHED CARPORT IS REQUESTED. OKAY. WOULD THE APPLICANT OR THE APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATIVE LIKE TO COME UP AND SPEAK ON THE CASE? JUST STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE. YES. GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS BOB FILTER. I RESIDE AT 1942 WILDER COURT, HASLETT, MICHIGAN, 48840. WELCOME, MR. FILTER. ALL RIGHT. WOULD YOU LIKE TO ADD ANYTHING TO WHAT MR. CHAPMAN SAID. YEAH, JUST ONE THING. THE DIMENSIONS THAT HE HAD IN THERE WERE INCORRECT. IT'S 13.5FT BY 24.5FT. ARE YOU MEASURING FROM THE POST OR THE ROOF? I'M MEASURING FROM THE POST TO THE HOME. YEAH. CAN YOU SAY THAT ONE MORE TIME, MR. FILTER? YEAH. THE DIMENSIONS OF THE CARPORT ARE 13.5FT BY 24.5FT AND A HALF BY 24.5. OKAY. SORRY. I'M TRYING TO FIND. WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE. I THINK I MENTIONED THAT IN MY DOCUMENTATION, TOO, THAT THE WIDTH OF THE PROPOSED CARPORT IS 13.5FT. OKAY. OKAY. SO, MR. CHAPMAN, THE DISCREPANCY BETWEEN THE TWO. BY THE TEN FOOT. BY 21FT. YEAH. I'M DOING SOME CALCULATION HERE. OKAY, I'LL GIVE YOU A SECOND. IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU'D LIKE TO ADD? WHILE WE'RE DOING A LITTLE BIT OF. YEAH. NO, I JUST I HAVE TREMENDOUS RESPECT FOR WHAT YOU'RE DOING AS BOARD MEMBERS HERE. I'M CURRENTLY ON LEAVE FROM THE MICHIGAN INTERSCHOLASTIC GOLF COACHES ASSOCIATION, WHERE THEY'RE DOING AN ALL-STATE SELECTION ON THE OTHER SIDE OF TOWN. I SERVE AS THE CHAIRMAN OF THE GOVERNING BOARD AT SAINT LOUIS LUTHERAN CHURCH. SO I KNOW THE WORK THAT YOU'RE DOING IS THANKLESS AND LOW PAID IF PAID AT ALL. SO I APPRECIATE ALL OF YOU AND WHAT YOU DO. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. SO 13.5 BY 14.5 IS WHAT THE STRUCTURE WILL BE. 13.5 BY 24 BY 24. THANK YOU MA'AM. I WANT TO MAKE SURE I HAVE THE RIGHT. ESPECIALLY SINCE THE DEPTH MAKES ANY DIFFERENCE. THE WIDTH? IS RIGHT. THE WIDTH IS THE THE ISSUE. SO IT'S A 5.5FT VARIANCE. OKAY. YEAH. OKAY. INSTEAD OF TWO FEET. INSTEAD OF TWO FEET, IT'S FIVE AND A HALF. OKAY. THANK YOU. THAT'S HELPFUL. ALL RIGHT. SO IF THERE'S NOTHING MORE TO ADD, I'M GOING TO GO AHEAD AND GET INTO BOARD TIME. QUESTIONS, THOUGHTS, CONCERNS ON ANY OF THESE? I CAN SAY RIGHT NOW. I'M LOOKING AT THE LAST PHOTO IN THE PACKET. THE SITE MAP. IS IT JUST ME OR IS HALF YOUR HOUSE IN THE 1950S? 1950 WILDER COURT. THIS IS INACCURATE. SO. OKAY. I WAS LIKE THIS. IS THAT SHIFTED? THAT'S SHIFTED OVER TO THE RIGHT. [00:30:04] THE RED LINES SHOULD BE FARTHER TO THE LEFT. OKAY. YEAH, YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE'S A BOULDER RETAINING WALL IN MY BACKYARD THERE BECAUSE OF THAT SLOPED GRADE AND THAT'S ALL WITHIN MY YARD. IT'S NOT. OKAY, SO WHERE THE NEIGHBOR'S YARD, WHERE THE EDGE OF THAT RETAINING WALL IS KIND OF WHERE WE CAN DRAW OUR IMAGINARY RED LINE. IS THAT ROUGHLY. YEAH. THE RETAINING WALL, I THINK, ENDS WITHIN ABOUT A FOOT OF MY PROPERTY LINE. SO THAT GIVES US A LITTLE BIT BETTER OF A VISUAL, BECAUSE LOOKING AT THIS, I'M LIKE, I DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND HOW WE'RE. AND YOU CAN SEE ALSO THAT THERE IS AN EXISTING SIDE DRIVE ON THE HOME. THE CARPORT WOULD BE COVERING THE EXISTING SIDE DRIVE THAT'S THERE. OKAY. SO THE EXISTING DRIVE IS ALREADY THERE. CORRECT. OKAY. THAT'S HELPFUL. IS THAT WHERE YOU'VE BEEN PARKING YOUR TRUCK? YES. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THAT GETS A LITTLE BIT MORE CLARITY. THANK YOU. THERE WE GO. THAT DOESN'T HAVE THE THAT DOESN'T HAVE THE NEWER DRIVEWAY ON IT. BUT THAT ONE RIGHT THERE. OH THERE WE GO. THERE DOES HAVE THE DRIVEWAY. THERE WE GO. FANTASTIC. OKAY. THAT'S HELPFUL. WHAT WAS THE PREVIOUS IMAGE THAT WE JUST SAW? THAT'S GOT TO BE QUITE OLD BECAUSE THERE'S A LARGE PINE TREE IN THAT PREVIOUS IMAGE. THAT HAS BEEN GONE FOR SOME YEARS NOW, SO. OKAY. THAT'S HELPFUL. THANK YOU, MR. CHAPMAN. OKAY. I WILL START UNLESS ANYBODY ELSE HAS ANY THOUGHTS. BUT I JUST IN READING THROUGH THE CRITERIA AND LOOKING THROUGH I DO THINK THIS CAN BE WE CAN FIND A UNIQUENESS TO ANY SITUATION, BUT I CAN FIND IT WITH THIS ONE. ESPECIALLY WITH THE SHAPE OF THIS LOT AND TRYING TO FIND A SPOT WITHIN THE SLOT TO ADD ANY MORE COVERAGE FOR A VEHICLE. IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE YOU CAN GO TO THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION. NO, AND I'VE EXPLORED SOME OTHER OPTIONS OF POSSIBLY PUTTING AN ACCESSORY BUILDING OFF THE LEFT REAR CORNER OF THE EXISTING HOME, AND THERE WAS NOT ANY ROOM WITH REAR SETBACKS THERE TO DO IT AS WELL. SO. RIGHT. EITHER ON EITHER WAY, JUST BECAUSE OF THE SHAPE OF YOUR. CORRECT. AND THE OTHER SIDE WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE ANYWAY. DUE TO THE LANDSCAPING IN MY NEIGHBOR'S HOME ON THAT SIDE. YEAH. YOU'D BE TOO CLOSE AND THEIR HOUSES LOOKS INCREDIBLY CLOSE TO THEIR LINES AS WELL. OKAY. I MEAN, I CAN KIND OF START TO SEE THAT. I DO. I THINK WHEN WE START GETTING INTO THE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES WITH NEEDING A NEEDING A SPACE TO HOLD A LARGER VEHICLE, WE'RE IN. WHAT YEAR WAS THIS HOUSE BUILT? 1987. SO WE'RE THINKING, I MEAN, I AND I READING YOUR PACKET, I WAS LIKE, YEAH, CARS WERE SMALLER, YOU KNOW, UNLESS YOU HAD ONE OF THOSE BIG. YEAH. MY CURRENT GARAGE IS ABOUT 20FT IN DEPTH, AND I HAVE A FULL SIZE CHEVY PICKUP TRUCK THAT JUST WON'T FIT IN THE GARAGE ANYMORE. I HAD A MIDSIZE TRUCK AND I GOT REALLY CREATIVE AND FIGURED OUT HOW TO GET IT IN THERE WHEN I HAD TO, BUT THIS TRUCK IS JUST IMPOSSIBLE TO FIT IN THE CURRENT GARAGE THAT WE HAVE. IN ADDITION, THE CURRENT GARAGE WE HAVE IS BELOW THE THE RESIDENCE, AND SO THE CEILING IS ALSO EXTREMELY LOW AND WE HAVE A SUPPORTING BEAM IN THERE. SO I MAY BARELY CLEAR THAT SUPPORTING BEAM WITH THE CURRENT VEHICLE I HAVE, BUT I WOULDN'T WANT TO TRY IT OFTEN. RIGHT? YEAH. AND YOU KNOW, TRUCKS ARE NOT GETTING SMALLER. TRUCKS ARE NOT GETTING ANY SMALLER. I CAN SEE THEIR BIG PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES HERE WITH NEEDING OR HAVING THE ABILITY TO KEEP YOUR PROPERTY AND KEEP YOUR, VEHICLES COVERED. MEMBER [INAUDIBLE]. WHO'S NOT HERE WOULD BE ONE THAT WOULD DEFINITELY AGREE WITH ME ON THAT ONE. BUT ANY OTHER THOUGHTS OR QUESTIONS REGARDING THIS? I HAVE A QUESTION. YES. MISTER CHAPMAN IS THE. WHEN YOU'RE FOR A CARPORT VERSUS LIKE A GARAGE WHERE YOU'RE MEASURING FOR THE SETBACK, DOES THAT CHANGE? IS IT THE ROOF? NO, IT'S THE ACTUAL POST. YEAH, IT'S THE POST. OKAY. YEAH. SO IT'D BE THE WALL IF IT WERE. [00:35:04] IT'D BE THE WALL. THE GARAGE ITSELF. OKAY. AND IT'S THAT CORNER, RIGHT? CORRECT. SO IT WOULD BE THE LOWER LEFT CORNER OF THE PROPOSED CARPORT ON THE SITE PLAN THERE. RIGHT. AND THEN AND SO IT'S 5.5FT. SO BY THE END, BY THE OTHER END OF THE CARDBOARD, IT'S TOTALLY WITHIN SETBACK. YES. YEAH. AS YOU GO DOWN. YEAH. BECAUSE THE BECAUSE OF THE SLANT OF THE PROPERTY LINE. DOES THE DRIVEWAY IS THERE LIKE A SETBACK FOR DRIVEWAYS? IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE TWO FEET AND IT IS. WHEN THE DRIVEWAY WAS POURED, IT WAS MEASURED TWO FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE AT THE BEND RIGHT THERE WHERE YOU SEE THE BEND IN THE DRIVEWAY. THE CLOSEST PORTION IS AT TWO FEET. MY DRAWING PROBABLY DOESN'T DO IT. WHEN WAS THE DRIVEWAY? EXTRA DRIVEWAY ADDED 2012. I BELIEVE. SO I'M ASSUMING YOU HAVE BEEN PARKING YOUR VEHICLE THERE? CORRECT. THAT IS OPEN AND CORRECT. YEAH. AND MAY I ALSO ASK WHAT FOR YOU IS THE ADVANTAGE OF A CARPORT OVER, SAY, DOING A GARAGE? THE ADVANTAGE OF THE CARPORT IS ON THE LESS WEAR AND TEAR ON MY VEHICLE OF HAVING IT EXPOSED TO THE WEATHER. IT'S CURRENTLY BEEN PARKED OUTSIDE FOR THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF, AND I'D LIKE TO KEEP MY VEHICLE, YOU KNOW, IN BETTER CONDITION BY HAVING IT COVERED. ALSO, SNOW REMOVAL NOT HAVING TO CLEAR THE VEHICLE OFF. I'M A TEACHER, SO GETTING UP IN THE MORNING TO HEAD TO SCHOOL AND NOT HAVING TO SCRAPE MY WINDOW OFF BEFORE I HEAD IN IS ADVANTAGEOUS. I ALSO TEACH HER AND ALSO REALLY LIKE PARKING MY GARAGE FOR THAT REASON. IT REALLY HELPS. MAY I ASK THOUGH? I GUESS MY QUESTION MORE SPECIFICALLY WHY A CARPORT VERSUS DOING, LIKE, AN ENCLOSED GARAGE? JUST YOU KNOW, TO HAVE A CARPORT THERE TO HAVE SOMETHING WHERE I CAN STILL LEAVE SIGHTLINES OPEN SO THAT I'M NOT COMPLETELY IMPEDING EVERYBODY'S VIEW. WE DO HAVE A LARGE WETLAND AREA BEHIND THE HOME AND I WOULD PREFER NOT TO ENCLOSE IT IN COMPLETELY JUST SO THAT PEOPLE CAN STILL SEE THROUGH IT. YOU KNOW, THERE'S WE HAVE A LOT OF WILDLIFE IN THE AREA, TOO AND YOU KNOW, TO CREATE ANOTHER STRUCTURE THAT'S GOING TO IMPEDE WILDLIFE IN ANY WAY. I APPRECIATE THAT. ALL RIGHT. I'M GONNA ASK THIS QUESTION. SO IT SAYS IN THE IN OUR NOTES THAT WORK WAS STARTED WITHOUT A PERMIT, AND STAFF NOTIFIED THE APPLICANT IN APRIL. CAN YOU TALK THROUGH WHAT THAT MEANS? CERTAINLY. SO I HAD TALKED TO 2 OR 3 OTHER RESIDENTS IN MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP THAT HAD ADDED COVERED PARKING OFF THE SIDE OF THEIR EXISTING STRUCTURE. THEY TOLD ME THAT THERE WAS NO PERMIT PULLED, THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING IN ORDER TO DO THAT. SO LAST FALL I BEGAN POURING CONCRETE ALONG THE OUTSIDE EDGE FOR THE POSTS. SO ALL THE POSTS HAVE YOU KNOW, FOUR FEET DOWN TO BE BELOW THE FROST LINE. AND THEN I HAD PUT UP FOUR BEAMS ON THE OUTSIDE AND THEN CROSS BEAMS OVER TO THE HOUSE, AND I'D STOPPED WORK FOR THE WINTER. AND THEN IN THE SPRINGTIME I BELIEVE RON RAO HAD CONTACTED ME AND TOLD ME THAT A PERMIT WAS NECESSARY. SO AT THAT TIME, I DID COME IN AND TALK TO YOU, THE PEOPLE IN THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT, AND GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF FILING FOR THE PERMIT. ALL RIGHT. I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THIS WAS NOT AN EXTENSION OF THE PRINCIPAL BUILDING, AND THAT THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT WOULD NOT REQUIRE A PERMITTING PROCESS, THAT I WAS JUST COVERING MY EXISTING DRIVEWAY. SO. DID YOU TALK TO YOUR NEIGHBOR ABOUT BUILDING THIS AT ALL? YES. SO THE NEIGHBOR DIRECTLY TO THE LEFT THERE IS BOB AND COURTNEY HORNBERGER. I BELIEVE BOB TOLD ME THAT HE HAD SENT YOU AN EMAIL, THAT HE HAD NO PARTICULAR OBJECTION TO THIS, BUT IS THAT RECENTLY? THAT'S THE ONE YOU SENT THIS AFTERNOON? OH, YEAH. THAT'S. YEAH, I FORWARDED. SO THAT'S WE'LL READ THAT INTO THE RECORD THEN. YEAH. IF YOU SAW THIS AND HIS GARAGE IS ALSO ON THAT SIDE DIRECTLY ADJACENT TO WHERE I'M PROPOSING THIS CARPORT TO. THAT'S THE NEIGHBOR. JUST TO THE LEFT. OKAY. THE CARDBOARD. CAN'T BE SEEN AT ALL. FROM MY NEIGHBOR TO THE RIGHT. RIGHT. OKAY. THANK YOU FOR THAT QUESTION. I HAD THE SAME. [00:40:05] I HAD IT WHEN I READ THE BACK END. I FORGOT ALL ABOUT IT. SO. YEAH. BRINGING THAT UP. APPRECIATE THAT. ANY OTHER THOUGHTS OR SHOULD I GET TO [INAUDIBLE]. WELL I WAS OUT THERE TODAY. YEAH I LIKE TO GO LOOK AT THE SITES WHEN THINGS WHEN YOU CAN AND I DID SEE THAT THERE ARE YOU'VE GOT YOUR GAS METER I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE I DIDN'T SEE YOUR ELECTRIC METER BUT IT'S PROBABLY DIRECTLY NEXT. YEAH. IT'S NEXT TO IT. SO IT HAS TO BE A LITTLE BIT PUSHED OUT FROM THE CORRECT IN ORDER TO GET A CAR IN THERE. THERE'S ALSO A DOORWAY THERE THAT COULDN'T OPEN IF THE CAR WAS RIGHT TIED TO IT. SO YEAH. MY PRIMARY CONCERN, I THINK, WAS THE UTILITIES MORE THAN ANYTHING. THE DRIVEWAY ITSELF IS ALREADY HAS A THREE FOOT SPACE WITH SOME LANDSCAPING IN IT FROM THE HOME OUT TO THE DRIVEWAY AND THAT WAS DONE INTENTIONALLY TO KEEP AWAY FROM THOSE UTILITIES SO THAT THERE WAS NO CHANCE OF ANY MISHAP. OKAY, THAT'S HELPFUL BECAUSE I KNOW THAT WAS IN THE PACKET. SO YOU WAS ABLE TO VERIFY. YEAH. SO THERE'S A AS FAR AS PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES CONCERNED, THERE IS A CONCERN. YES. SOMETHING THAT CAN BE ADDRESSED WITH THE VARIANCE. OKAY. WELL I THINK I WILL START READING CRITERIA THEN. UNLESS WE HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR THOUGHTS. OKAY. NUMBER ONE WOULD BE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES EXIST THAT ARE PECULIAR TO THE LAND OR STRUCTURE THAT ARE NOT APPLICABLE TO OTHER LAND OR STRUCTURES IN THE SAME ZONING DISTRICT, AND THESE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE NOT SELF-CREATED. TO SHAPE THE LOT. YEAH, SHAPE OF THE LOT? IN AND OF ITSELF. I CAN DEFINITELY MEET THAT CRITERIA. YEAH. I MEAN, IF THIS WAS NOT A CORNER LOT LIKE THAT IN ANOTHER LOCATION, I THINK THERE WOULD BE MORE. THERE WOULD POTENTIALLY BE MORE SPACE. WELL, YEAH, IF IT WAS A RECTANGULAR LOT, YOU WOULD HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE FLEXIBILITY AS FAR AS WHERE YOU COULD PUT A STRUCTURE. BUT THE I MEAN, THE SHAPE OF THE LOT IN THAT TRIANGLE SHAPE IS JUST. WELL HE'S GOT A 50 FOOT FRONT FRONTAGE, RIGHT AND 122 IN THE REAR. SO. RIGHT. THAT'S A REALLY SIGNIFICANT CUL DE SAC. YEAH. LIMITATION. YEAH I CAN DEFINITELY MEET THE UNIQUENESS OF THAT CRITERIA. CRITERIA TWO SAYS THE STRICT INTERPRETATION AND ENFORCEMENT OF THE LITERAL TERMS OR PROVISIONS OF THIS CHAPTER WOULD RESULT IN PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES THAT WOULD PREVENT THE OWNER FROM USING THE PROPERTY FOR THE PERMITTED PURPOSE AND AGAIN, JUST SPEAKING TO MEMBERS THIS EXPERIENCE IN YOUR NOTES. MR. FILTER THE WITH THE UTILITIES BEING THERE AND A DOOR BEING THERE ANY CLOSER IN BEYOND THAT 5.5FT VARIANCE IS GOING TO MAKE IT NEARLY. I MEAN IT'S NOT GOING TO BE USABLE TO PUT YOUR VEHICLE SO I CAN DEFINITELY MEET THAT CRITERIA. ANY THOUGHTS OR CONCERNS ON THAT ONE? I AGREE. CRITERIA THREE IS GRANTING THE VARIANCE IS THE MINIMUM ACTION NECESSARY THAT WOULD CARRY OUT THE SPIRIT OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE, SECURE PUBLIC SAFETY, AND PROVIDE SUBSTANTIAL JUSTICE. AND I DO THINK THAT DESPITE AND I DO, YOU KNOW THAT WAS A RED FLAG FOR ME WHEN I READ THE PACKET WAS JUST WHY DON'T WE START WORK WITH OUT AND THIS GOES TO SHOW ALL OF OUR TOWNSHIP RESIDENTS ALWAYS CHECK WITH THE TOWNSHIP FIRST JUST TO BE ON THE SAFE SIDE. I'M A LIFELONG LEARNER, SO I'M LEARNING LOTS OF LESSONS RIGHT NOW, INCLUDING HOW TO BUILD AND HOW TO FIGURE OUT MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP CODE. SO. YES AND IT'S JUST A GOOD IT'S A GOOD RULE OF THUMB, RIGHT? JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE DIDN'T GET A PERMIT OR ANY VARIANCE BEFORE DOESN'T MEAN THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE. RIGHT. YES. I'M ALSO DISCOVERING THAT. YES. YEAH. THAT'S YEAH, LOTS OF PEOPLE DO LOTS OF THINGS AND THE HARD PART IS WHEN IT GOES UNNOTICED, IT'S FRUSTRATING AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE, WELL, HOW ARE THEY? BUT WE HOPE THAT, YOU KNOW, OUR TOWNSHIP BUILDING AND OUR INSPECTORS WILL SEE THOSE THINGS AND GO HOLD ON TO KEEP IT FAIR AND KEEP IT EQUITABLE FOR EVERYBODY IN THE TOWNSHIP. SO WE DO ENCOURAGE DOING FOLLOWING THE STEPS. BUT THAT SAID, YOU DID WHEN YOU WERE MADE AWARE AND TOOK THE STEPS TO COME IN AND, WE APPRECIATE THAT AND THAT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO AND SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO GET A VARIANCE. AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE. ABSOLUTELY. SO AS FAR AS MINIMUM ACTION GOES AGAIN, I CAN SEE THE CORNER OF THAT IS IS GOING TO BE INTO THAT SETBACK. BUT AS SOON AS YOU GET TO THE BACK CORNER, IT'S NOT. SO AS FAR AS MINIMUM ACTION GOES, THIS CLEARS THOSE UTILITIES AND OR MAKES IT USABLE AND ALSO IT'S 5.5FT. SO IF IT'S NOT BOTHERING THE NEIGHBOR AND IT LOOKS LIKE THAT'S A GOOD TIME TO GET THAT INTO THE RECORD. [00:45:10] THAT SAID, I WILL TAKE A MOMENT TO ADD TO THE RECORD A EMAIL THAT WE RECEIVED FROM NEIGHBOR AT 1950 WILDER COURT THAT MR. HORNBERGER SAYS THAT HE HAS NO ISSUES WITH THE CARPORT BEING BUILT, AND THAT CARPORT IS DIRECTLY NEXT TO HIS DRIVEWAY. SO I FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS THAT GOES I CAN MEET THAT. THAT WOULD BE A MINIMUM OF ACTION AND CARRYING OUT THE SPIRIT OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE. I DO UNDERSTAND IT. IT'S JUST A UNIQUE SHAPE OF A LOT THAT ISN'T GOING TO GIVE MUCH LEEWAY FOR ANYTHING ELSE THERE SO I CAN MEET THE MINIMUM ACTION. CRITERIA. FOR IS GRANTING THE VARIANCE. SORRY, I CAN'T COMMENT ON THE. OH, SURE. MINIMUM CRITERIA. SO FOR THE MINIMUM ACTION NECESSARY, I DO WANT TO STATE THAT I GET WE'VE HAD MULTIPLE INSTANCES NOW WHERE PEOPLE HAVE COMMUNICATED THAT VEHICLES ARE GETTING LARGER. AND I DO THINK THAT VEHICLE CHOICE IS PRESENT HERE AND THAT VEHICLES AREN'T ALWAYS GOING TO BE THE SAME SIZES. GRANTED, THIS HOUSE WAS BUILT IN THE 80S AND VEHICLES WERE DIFFERENT SIZES OVER THE DECADES. THEY CHANGED. THERE'S NOW FAIRLY POPULAR MID-SIZED TRUCKS THAT PEOPLE ARE ALSO BUYING, SO I DO THINK THAT THERE COULD BE A SLIGHTLY LESS MINIMUM ACTION NECESSARY HERE TO BUILD THIS, BUT I'M STILL OKAY WITH IT, GIVEN THAT THE DRIVEWAY WAS BUILT OVER A DECADE AGO. AND SO THIS IS JUST HOW THE PROPERTY IS AT THIS POINT. YEAH, BUT I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT OUT LOUD. OKAY. I APPRECIATE THAT. AND I THINK THE IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER, TOO, IS THAT IT GOES WITH THE PROPERTY. SO, YOU KNOW, THAT IS PERHAPS SOMETHING TO CONSIDER, THAT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY. I DON'T KNOW, WE ALSO LIVE IN MICHIGAN. SO WE GET WHATEVER VEHICLES YOU KNOW ARE WITH THE TIMES, WE GET THE NEWEST, LARGEST VEHICLES. EVEN MORE SO THAN MAYBE OTHER PLACES JUST BECAUSE OF OUR PROXIMITY TO. AND WE ALSO JUST PURCHASED A BOAT RECENTLY, AND SO PULLING THE BOAT WITH ANYTHING SMALLER THAN THAT WOULDN'T WORK. SO THE VEHICLE CHOICE HAD MORE TO DO WITH OUR BOAT PURCHASE PROBABLY, THAN IT HAD TO DO WITH ANYTHING ELSE. YEAH. OKAY. YEAH. AND I DO THINK THE PART OF THE VARIANCE IS, THAT, THEY GO WITH THE, THE BUILDING. SO IF SOMEBODY BROUGHT, YOU KNOW, YOU SOLD THE HOUSE, SOMEBODY BROUGHT HOME A PRIUS, THE PRIUS WOULD STILL FIT. THE PRIUS WOULD STILL FIT. SO I DO, IT IS A MINIMUM I THINK IS WHERE WE'RE WHERE THE WONDER IS. RIGHT. IS THIS A MINIMUM ACTION. IS THIS LIKE ADDRESSING THE SIZE OF THE VEHICLE. OH THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. I THINK OF AND DEFINITELY KEEP IN MIND FOR FUTURE. YEAH, I WOULD SAY THAT IF MY OPINION MIGHT BE DIFFERENT IF THIS WAS AN ENCLOSED GARAGE. WHICH IS SIGHTLINES AND ALL THAT. IT WOULD BE MORE INTRUSIVE ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAN THE CARPORT, SO I CAN LIVE WITH THAT. YEAH. AND I DO THINK THE APPLICANT SEEMS TO HAVE TAKEN THAT INTO CONSIDERATION AS AND IS BEING A LITTLE BIT MORE THOUGHTFUL, APPLYING THAT TO TO THE DECISION TO DO IT IN THIS WAY. SO I CAN MEET THE CRITERIA. I DEFINITELY THINK THAT MEMBER BROOKS, DO YOU HAVE A GOOD POINT IN JUST KEEPING IN MIND ALSO, ESPECIALLY GOING FORWARD, IF WE'RE SEEING THIS REPEATEDLY, IS THAT SOMETHING WE WANT TO SET A PRECEDENT FOR? SO. CAN I ASK ONE MORE QUESTION ABOUT THAT? SURE. GO FOR IT. SO IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S GOING TO BE HOW TALL IS THE CARPORT GOING TO BE? THE OPENING IS TEN FEET. OKAY. IF IT HAD BEEN A GARAGE, IT WOULD HAVE PROBABLY HAD A LOWER OPENING. I THINK MOST GARAGES ARE SET AT ABOUT SEVEN FEET, SOMETIMES TALL. GARAGE DOORS ARE EIGHT FEET. THIS ONE'S SET AT TEN FEET. OKAY. THERE ARE A FEW TIMES WHERE WE DO BRING OUR BOAT HOME FROM UP NORTH AND I WOULD BACK THE BOAT UNDERNEATH THERE. AND JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT IT WOULD CLEAR THE BOAT, I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT IT WAS UP AT TEN FEET. BUT WHEN WE HAVE IT HOME FOR A WEEKEND TO USE ON LAKE LANSING. [00:50:03] IT'S SOMETHING. IF YOU OWN A BOAT, YOU'D PREFER THAT IT'S COVERED RATHER THAN BEING EXPOSED TO THE ELEMENTS. SO. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. AND THEN WE GET TO CRITERIA NUMBER FOUR, WHICH IS GRANTING THE VARIANCE WILL NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT ADJACENT LAND OR THE CENTRAL CHARACTER OR THE VICINITY OF THE PROPERTY. AGAIN I CAN ADDRESS JUST BASED ON THE COMMUNICATION WE'VE HAD FROM NEIGHBOR, FROM TALKING TO MR. FILTER AND FROM YOU KNOW, VARIOUS BOARD MEMBER COMMENTS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, NOT BEING INTRUSIVE TO THE PROPERTY OR TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD EXISTING AND NOT AFFECTING SIGHT LINES AND THINGS. SO I DON'T SEE WHERE IT WOULD ADVERSELY AFFECT THE ADJACENT LAND. GO AHEAD. I WOULD LIKE TO ADD THAT BECAUSE THE DRIVEWAYS ARE DRIVEWAYS ALREADY THERE. IT KIND OF GOES IN THE SPIRIT OF THE DRIVEWAYS JUST ADDING A CARPORT. YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT LIKE YOU'RE THROWING SOMETHING IN THERE THAT ALREADY ISN'T PART OF THE, BUILDING AND GOES FROM UNCOVERED PARKING TO COVERED PARKING. YEAH. GREAT. ALL RIGHT. AND CRITERIA NUMBER FIVE IS GRANTING. THE VARIANCE WILL BE GENERALLY CONSISTENT WITH THE PUBLIC INTEREST AND THE PURPOSES AND INTENT OF THIS CHAPTER. AND I DON'T HAVE ANY CONCERNS OR QUESTIONS ABOUT CRITERIA NUMBER FIVE. I CAN MEET THAT QUITE EASILY. WHICH IS NICE. WELL, I DO TOO, BUT IT'S PRIMARILY BECAUSE IF THE ALTERNATIVE IS TO PARK ON THAT VERY TIGHT CUL DE SAC THAT IS DEFINITELY ADVERSE TO PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION AND I DON'T KNOW WHEN YOU VISITED, PERHAPS, BUT YOU SEE THAT IT ONLY TAKES A FEW VEHICLES PARKED OUT ON THAT CUL DE SAC FOR IT TO BECOME DANGEROUS. EVEN SO. RIGHT. THAT'S PRETTY TIGHT. THE OTHER PART IS, IF YOU TRIED TO PARK A VEHICLE OR TWO IN THE DRIVEWAY, IT COULD ENCROACH ON THE SIDEWALK ALSO. YEAH. SO. YEAH MORE THAN ONE. I MEAN, ONE TRUCK IN THAT DRIVEWAY, IT'S LIKE, WELL, YEAH. BACK YOU UP TO THE SIDEWALK. SO. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. WELL, ON THAT NOTE. I WILL MOTION TO APPROVE. ZBA. CASE NUMBER 25-05, 1942. WILDER, ROBERT. FILTER, 1942. WILDER COURT HASLETT MICHIGAN 48840. AS PRESENTED. I'M SORRY, I WILL SAY AS THE 5.5FT VARIANCE IN THE SETBACK. I'LL SUPPORT. ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. THEN ANY QUESTIONS? THOUGHTS, CONCERNS ON THE MOTION ON THE TABLE. ALL RIGHT THEN. THIS IS A VOTE TO APPROVE. ZBA CASE NUMBER 2505 MEMBER BENOIT. DID WE GET A SECOND? I DID, OKAY. YES. SORRY, I MISSED THAT. YEAH. MEMBER. SORRY. VOTE TO APPROVE. SO YOUR VARIANCE HAS BEEN APPROVED. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. FISHER. AGAIN, I APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR PUBLIC SERVICE. I KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE. SO I JUST CAME OFF OF SIX YEARS ON MY CHURCH GOVERNING BOARD AND POLICY REVIEW CAN BE ONE OF THE WORST THINGS. SO I APPRECIATE ALL OF YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. AND THAT CASE, WE HAVE NO OTHER UNFINISHED BUSINESS. AND WE WILL OPEN THE FLOOR FOR PUBLIC REMARKS BACK TO THE PUBLIC, AND I WILL CLOSE PUBLIC REMARKS. OPEN BOARD MEMBER COMMENTS. ALL RIGHT. I JUST HAVE A QUESTION. [9. BOARD MEMBER COMMENTS] DOES A MEMBER GO FOR IT? DOES A SIDE DRIVEWAY REQUIRE A PERMIT? NO. SO, LIKE, SOMEBODY COULD PUT A DRIVEWAY ON THEIR PROPERTY. OKAY. YEAH. NO PERMITS REQUIRED FOR DRIVERS. YEAH. THE CODE IS TWO FEET FROM THE SIDE YARD AND THE SIDE YARD. IN MOST INSTANCES, IT'S 35% OF YOUR FRONT YARD. YEAH, BUT LIKE, LANSING IS DIFFERENT, RIGHT? OF COURSE IT IS. WHY WOULD IT NOT BE? IT'S LIKE LANSING. OH, I CAN'T WAIT FOR YOU TO HAVE SOME LAKE LANSING CASES. THAT'LL BE SO MUCH FUN. WELL, WE HAVEN'T SEEN. WE HAVEN'T SEEN ANY SINCE WE CHANGED THE ORDINANCE, SO. YEAH, IT SEEMS TO BE WORKING GOOD. YOU JUST GET A LOT OF THEM FOR DECKS. [00:55:02] OH, YEAH. DECKS? PORCHES. DRIVEWAYS? A COUPLE? YEAH. YEAH, BUT NOT RECENTLY. SO. ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER BOARD MEMBER COMMENTS? ALL RIGHT, THEN I'LL CLOSE OUR BOARD MEMBER COMMENTS, AND WE ARE OFFICIALLY ADJOURNED. NOT OUR FASTEST MEETING. * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.