[00:00:39] >> YOU SAID COMMISSIONER BROOKS WILL BE JOINING US A LITTLE BIT LATER. I GUESS I WILL CALL THE JUNE 9, [1. CALL MEETING TO ORDER] 2025 MEETING OF THE MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP COMMISSION TO ORDER. FIRST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS THE ROLL CALL. COMMISSIONER ROBERT. >> HERE. >> COMMISSIONER MCCURTIS. >> HERE. [LAUGHTER] >> REALLY NOT PUTTING YOU ON THE SPOT. >> COMMISSIONER SNYDER. >> HERE. >> COMMISSIONER MCCONNELL. >> PRESENT. >> COMMISSION FULLER. >> HERE. >> THE CHAIR IS HERE. COMMISSIONER BROOKS WILL BE JOINING US SHORTLY. THANK YOU. NEXT ON OUR AGENDA IS PUBLIC REMARKS. IF YOU ARE HERE TO SPEAK ON SOMETHING THAT IS NOT SUBJECT TO A PUBLIC HEARING, AND WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK NOW. PLEASE GO OUT A GREEN SHEET AND COME FORWARD. SEEING NOBODY, WE WILL WANT TO APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA. [4. APPROVAL OF AGENDA] [INAUDIBLE] A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA? >> I MOVE TO APPROVE THE AGENDA AS DISTRIBUTED. >> THANK YOU. >> SECOND. >> MOVED BY COMMISSIONER MCCONNELL, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER MCCURTIS. ALL IN FAVOR. >> AYE. >> AYE. >> ANY OPPOSED? NOW WE'RE TO APPROVAL OF [5. APPROVAL OF MINUTES] THE MINUTES OF THE APRIL 28 2520 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. [INAUDIBLE] A MOTION FOR THAT. >> I MOVE TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM APRIL 28. >> THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER MCCURTIS, IS THERE A SECOND? >> SUPPORT. >> [INAUDIBLE] >> I LIKE IT. ANY DISCUSSION ABOUT THE MINUTES? SEEING NONE. ALL IN FAVOR OF APPROVAL AS WRITTEN. SAY AYE. >> AYE. >> AYE. >> ANY OPPOSED? TAKE A REAL QUICK POINT OF PRIVILEGE TO SAY AS I WAS REVIEWING THE MINUTE. I REALIZE COMMISSIONER MCCONNELL, THAT IT ISN'T NOTED THAT WE FORMALLY WELCOMED YOU TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION. I WOULD LIKE TO TODAY CORRECT THE RECORD. NOT FOR THOSE MINUTES, BUT TO TODAY WELCOME YOU TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION. >> THANK YOU. >> WE'RE GLAD TO HAVE YOU HERE AND LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU MORE. THANK YOU. COMMUNICATIONS. >> WE HAVE NONE. >> THANK YOU. NOW WE ARE ON TO ITEM 7, PUBLIC HEARINGS. [7.A. SUP #25009 – Ace Hardware Outdoor Storage] ITEM 7A IS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT NUMBER 25009 FOR ACE HARDWARE OUTDOOR STORAGE. >> ZOOM IN HERE. SPECIAL USE PERMIT, NUMBER 25009 ITEM IS ACE HARDWARE TO ALLOW OUTDOOR STORAGE AND RETAIL SALES AT AN EXISTING HARDWARE STORE AT 3544 MERIDIAN CROSSING DRIVE. IT'S PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD. THE HARDWARE STORE IS IN OPERATION FROM A ZONING PERSPECTIVE. THEY'RE ZONED COMMERCIAL. THEY'RE ALLOWED TO ASK FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO DO THE OUTDOOR STORAGE. THERE'S REALLY NO ISSUES EXCEPT WITH THE STANDARDS FOR OUTDOOR STORAGE. THERE'S TWO PICTURES THAT I'M GOING TO BRING TO YOUR ATTENTION THE STAFF TOOK. THIS IS FROM THE EAST SIDE OF THE BUILDING, AND I'VE ZOOMED IN AS MUCH AS I CAN, BUT THERE'S FENCING AROUND THIS MATERIAL. YOU CAN GET IN FROM THE STORE, AND THEN THERE'S A GATE ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE FENCING AS WELL. THIS IS ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE STORE AND THE MAIN ENTRANCE, AND YOU CAN SEE THESE PALLETS AND THESE CHAIRS AND SOME FIREWOOD STACKED THERE. BY THE STANDARDS OF SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR OUTDOOR STORAGE, IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE ENCLOSED IN ENCLOSURE. PART OF IT IS, PART OF IT IS NOT. BUT THE APPLICANT IS HERE CAN SPEAK TO THIS. THERE REALLY ISN'T AN ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUE OR TRAFFIC ISSUE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. LIKE I SAID, THE STORE IS IN OPERATION. REALLY, THAT'S WHAT I HAVE TO SAY. I CAN ANSWER QUESTIONS, I CAN TURN IT OVER TO THE APPLICANT. >> DOES ANYBODY HAVE QUESTIONS FOR MR. SHORKEY? [00:05:02] >> SMALL QUESTION. >> GO AHEAD. >> MAYBE IT'S FOR THE APPLICANT, BUT WILL THERE BE ANY TYPE OF ATTEMPT TO ENCLOSE THESE ITEMS ON THE SOUTH SIDE? >> JUST AN APPLICANT QUESTION. THERE WASN'T ANYTHING IN THE APPLICATION INDICATING THAT. [NOISE] >> I THOUGHT I READ SOMETHING ABOUT WOOD BEAMS, THAT THERE WAS SOME VERTICAL METAL BAR FENCE THAT CURRENTLY EXISTS, AND THEN THE SOUTH SIDE WAS GOING TO BE WOOD BEAMS. I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING THOSE RENDERINGS FROM THE APPLICANT. >> THAT WOULD BE A MORE ACCURATE STATEMENT THERE. >> YOU NOTED THAT AND I DON'T WANT TO CALL IT A VARIANCE, BUT WHATEVER THE LACK OF FENCING HERE DID NOT CAUSE STAFF A CONCERN WITH THE PERMIT. >> NO. IT DOESN'T MEET THE SUP STANDARDS. YOU MAY STILL APPROVE THE SUP. IT'S MY JOB IS A STAFF TO SAY, WE HAVE A STANDARD THAT OUTDOOR STORAGE HAS TO BE ENCLOSED. THIS IS NOT ENCLOSED. >> WE DO HAVE DISCRETION IN THIS MATTER? >> YES. YOU CAN FIND THAT THIS IS INTEGRAL TO THE OPERATION OF A HARDWARE STORE. YOU COULD COMPROMISE AND SAY THE STUFF ON THE SIDEWALK IS OKAY, GET IT OFF THE ENTRANCE SIDEWALK. THERE'S DIFFERENT WAYS TO GO AT THAT. >> MAYBE THIS IS A QUESTION FOR STAFF. I FEEL LIKE I DO SEE INSTANCES OF OUTDOOR STORAGE AND OTHER SITES IN THE TOWNSHIP SEASONAL, GROCERIES, AND OTHERS. BUT IT'S NOT A REGULAR CODE COMPLIANCE ISSUE. WHERE IS IT? >> IT'S NOT A CODE COMPLIANCE ISSUE THAT I'VE BEEN MADE AWARE OF AND OTHER LOCATIONS. I WAS ASKED TO COMPARE AND CONTRAST TO ANOTHER LARGER HARDWARE STORE IN THE TOWNSHIP. IN 1997, THE GARDEN CENTER AREA WAS APPROVED AND OUTDOOR STORAGE APPROVED FOR THE GARDEN CENTER AREA AT HOME DEPOT. THE CONDITION BEING THAT THAT IT REMAINED WITHIN THE ENCLOSURE, AND I HAVING WORKED AT THAT HOME DEPOT, I KNOW VERY WELL, THERE'S A LOT OF OUTDOOR STORAGE GOING ON THERE. THAT NEVER RECEIVED A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, NOR HAVE I FOUND ANY RECENT IN THE LAST THREE YEARS VIOLATIONS. >> THANK YOU. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS MR. SHORKEY HERE? WOULD WE LIKE TO HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT? >> I WOULD. >> WE DO THIS BEFORE WE START PUBLIC COMMENT, IF THERE'S ANYBODY HERE TO? YES. >> YOU DO HAVE SOMEONE HERE TO SPEAK TO THE NEXT APPLICATION. I DON'T HAVE ANY GREEN FORMS FOR THIS APPLICANT. >> PERFECT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF IF YOU WOULD. >> THANK YOU. GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS LAURA GENOVICH. I'M AN ATTORNEY WITH FOSTER SWIFT, AND I REPRESENT THE APPLICANT. I ALSO HAVE CUTLER MARTIN AND JOHN BROWN HERE FROM THE APPLICANT AS WELL, WHO HAVE A LOT OF THE ON THE SITE KNOWLEDGE, BUT I WANTED TO FIRST ECHO THE PLANNER'S COMMENTS THAT THIS IS, FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, LARGELY A STRAIGHTFORWARD APPLICATION WHERE THE RETAIL USE IS PERMITTED BY WRIGHT. BUT WE NEED THE SPECIAL LAND USE PERMIT JUST FOR THIS LIMITED OUTDOOR RETAIL USE THAT IS VERY COMMON WITH A HARDWARE STORE. PROBABLY ANY HARDWARE STORE, BIG OR SMALL THAT YOU'VE BEEN TO HAS SOME OUTDOOR SEASONAL SALES, AS YOU CAN SEE, THINGS LIKE LAWN CHAIRS OR MULCH, COMING INTO THE OTHER SEASONS, ICE MELT AND THINGS LIKE THAT. THOSE ARE INTEGRAL TO ACE HARDWARES OPERATIONS. I'LL FOCUS MY COMMENTS ON THE ENCLOSURE ISSUE. WE DID NOTE IN THE SUPPLEMENT TO THE APPLICATION THAT THE INTENTION FOR THAT COMPLIANCE FACTOR IS TO ENCLOSE, IF NECESSARY, AND UNLESS WEIGHED BY THIS PLANNING COMMISSION. THAT CURRENTLY UNENCLOSED AREA WITH WHAT WOULD BE CINDER BLOCKS WITH WOOD PLANKS IN BETWEEN THEM, WHICH ALLOWS IT TO BE CHANGED OUT, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THE INVENTORY THERE CHANGES WITH THE SEASONS, SO A PERMANENT INSTALLED FENCE WOULD MAKE IT SOMEWHAT DIFFICULT. BUT THAT WOULD, FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, SATISFY THE ORDINANCES REQUIREMENTS, MAKE SURE THERE'S SOME BLOCKING THERE, SO PEOPLE I SUPPOSE DON'T WALK INTO IT. BUT OTHERWISE, WE THINK THAT WOULD BE ADEQUATE TO MEET THE ORDINANCES LANGUAGE CONCERNING ENCLOSURE. ALTERNATIVELY, IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION WANTED TO WAIVE THAT REQUIREMENT OR WAIVE THE REQUIREMENT FOR PART OF IT. CERTAINLY, WE WOULD APPRECIATE THAT CONSIDERATION AS WELL. WE'RE HAPPY TO DO WHAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION REQUIRES TO MAKE SURE WE [00:10:03] CAN CONTINUE TO HAVE THESE IMPORTANT OUTDOOR RETAIL SALES. >> THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS FOR MISS GENOVICH. >> I WANT TO HEAR HOW YOU MOVE THE ROCKS. >> FOR SIDE OF BLOCKS? >> YEAH. >> THAT'S A JOHN QUESTION. [LAUGHTER] >> HOW YOU MOVE THE BLOCKS DID POST THE RAILS RUN THROUGH. >> CINDER. >> TRACE CINDER BLOCK. >> [OVERLAPPING] SINCE IT'S RECORDING, THEY MEET YOU AT THE MICROPHONE. >> THANK YOU. >> I KNOW. SORRY. [LAUGHTER] >> HE CAME ALL THIS WAY TO SEE THIS. >> GIVE US YOUR NAME IF YOU WOULD AND YOUR ADDRESS. >> MY NAME IS JOHN BROWN. TO ANSWER THE QUESTION, THE CINDER BLOCK. IF YOU TURN THEM SIDEWAYS. [OVERLAPPING] >> I JUST DID. >> THEY DO IN THEIR GARDEN CENTER IS THEY TAKE RAILROAD TIES BETWEEN THE TWO CINDER BLOCKS. IT CAN GO AS HIGH AS YOU NEED OR AS LOW AND MAKE OFFENSE. >> COOL. >> YOUR NAME, PLEASE. >> CUTLER MARTIN. >> THANK YOU. >> ONE IS LOCAL. WE APPRECIATE THE CONSIDERATION. WE'RE NOT LIKE HOME DEPOT, SO WE'RE A SMALL LOCALLY OWNED SHOP. TWO, WE WANTED TO SHOW AND WHEN WE TALKED TO THE TOWNSHIP INITIALLY, THIS IS HOW IT LOOKS NOW, AND THIS IS HOW THE OPERATIONS ARE NOW. IF YOU GUYS DO WAIVE IT, THE OPERATION WOULD CONTINUE AS IS IN THIS SPIRIT OR IN THIS SENSE. I THINK IT LOOKS BETTER. I CARE ABOUT THE AESTHETICS. WE CARE ABOUT OBVIOUSLY WHAT PEOPLE DRIVE BY, WHAT THEY THINK OF OUR STORE. WE WANT WELCOME TO COME IN. WE SWITCH THIS PRODUCT OUT DAILY, IF NOT MULTIPLE TIMES A WEEK. IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE SELL A PALETTE OF MULCH EVERY MONTH. SOMEONE MIGHT COME IN ON A SATURDAY AND NEED 15 BAGS AND THREE OR FOUR PEOPLE, AND IT'S GONE. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S CONSTANTLY ROTATING. WE'RE CONSTANTLY ROTATING THE SALES, AND IT IS AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE HARDWARE STORE. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, THOUGHTS, COMMENTS? >> MY I ASK A QUESTION. >> PLEASE, YES. >> DO YOU TAKE THE STUFF IN AT NIGHT OR DOES IT STAY OUT ON THE SIDEWALK? BECAUSE I BEING OUT THERE. I'D BE SURPRISED IF YOU'RE LEAVING THOSE LAWN CHAIRS OUT OVERNIGHT AND THINGS LIKE THAT. >> IT IS LEFT OUT OVERNIGHT. THESE TYPES OF ITEMS, WHETHER IT'S POTTING SOIL OR MULCH OR LAWN CHAIRS, EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE DURING THE DAY, WE MIGHT PUT SOME MORE VALUABLE ITEMS OUT LIKE A GRILL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WHICH IS IN THIS AREA. DEPENDS ON THE TIME OF YEAR WINTERTIME. THERE'S MUCH LESS THAT'S ON THE SIDEWALK. WE MIGHT HAVE A COUPLE CORE ITEMS THAT ARE OUT THERE. WEATHER DEPENDENT OBVIOUSLY. BUT NO, THIS IS LEFT OUT THERE. THOSE PALETTES ARE QUITE HEAVY, AND THERE'S NOT VERY MANY PLACES TO KEEP THEM. >> JUST CURIOUS. >> GOOD. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? >> I THINK THIS IS A QUESTION FOR STAFF. I'VE SEEN A NUMBER OF PLACES WHERE THEY HAVE OUTDOOR SIDEWALK, THINGS FOR SALE THAT DON'T APPEAR TO BE FENCED IN. IT DOES SEEM THAT OUR ENFORCEMENT OF THIS EITHER IS INCONSISTENT OR PEOPLE HAVE A LOT OF EXISTING GRANDFATHERING OF WAIVERS. I'M CURIOUS, DO YOU KNOW THE REASON FOR THE FENCING? IS IT AN AESTHETIC THING? IS IT A PROTECTION OF PEDESTRIAN THING? WHAT WAS THE RATIONALE BEHIND THE STANDARD? IF YOU DON'T KNOW, THAT'S OKAY. I'M JUST CURIOUS BECAUSE I HAVE NO IDEA, AND I'M NOT SURE. >> THERE'S NO NOTE IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE SAYING WHY THAT RESTRICTION AND WHY THAT STANDARD WAS PUT IN PLACE. I IMAGINE IT'S SOME OF ALL OF IT AND A OUTDOOR STORAGE OF SCALE, YOU WANT TO DELINEATE THAT AREA AND KEEP TRAFFIC FROM GOING IN THERE. FRANKLY, I DON'T THINK THAT'S A PROBLEM HERE. IT'S ON THE SIDEWALK. BUT YOU ALSO HAVE AN AESTHETIC THING. THIS ISN'T THE CASE HERE, BUT SOMETIMES YOU HAVE OUTDOOR STORAGE NEXT TO SOME MAYBE A MULTIFAMILY OR RESIDENTIAL SETTING. YOU WANT TO BEAUTIFY THAT. NOTHING'S COMING TO MIND UP IMMEDIATELY, BUT THERE ARE DIFFERENT REASONS. >> JUST NOT FAMILIAR ENOUGH WITH THE WHY TO KNOW THE IMPLICATIONS OR INFERENCES OF A WAIVER, IF WE SAID, "NO, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT," AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN IT BECAME REALLY UNATTRACTIVE, [00:15:03] IS THERE A RECOURSE THAT ONCE WE GRANT THIS, IS IT DONE DONE. >> ANOTHER TACT THAT YOU COULD IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE A PHILOSOPHICAL PROBLEM WITH WHAT YOU'RE SEEING IN THIS PICTURE, YOU COULD AS A CONDITION ATTACH A GEOGRAPHICAL AREA. WE'RE OKAY WITH IT, BUT IT CAN'T GO BEYOND X FEET FROM THE DOOR OR BEYOND THE SIDEWALK. CAN'T GO ONTO THE PAVE. THAT KIND OF THING. YOU COULD MITIGATE IT THAT WAY. >> JUST AS A COMMENT, IF YOU DON'T MIND, WE DO HAVE ONE AREA THAT WE'RE ASKING FOR THAT IS ON THE PAVEMENT, IT'S OFF TO THE SIDE. WE HAVE LIKE THREE OR FOUR PARKING SPACES, IS THAT CORRECT? I'LL GIVE SOME CONTEXT TO THIS. THIS IS A SMALL STORE. A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE ARE COMING IN FOR THE CONVENIENCE ASPECT OF IT. PEOPLE ARE IN AND OUT. OUR PARKING IS NOT AN ISSUE. TYPICALLY, PEOPLE ARE COMING IN SPENDING 10, 20 MINUTES AT THE TOP AND PROBABLY HAD TO STORE THE SIZE. WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF THE PARKING ISSUES THAT SOME OF THE OTHER RETAILERS MAY HAVE. ON THE SIDE, WHICH WOULD BE THE WEST SIDE OF THE BUILDING, I THINK IT IS IN OUR APPLICATION, WE HAVE ASKED FOR, I THINK, THREE OR FOUR PARKING SPACES. WE'RE NOT PLANNING ON USING IT IN ANY IMMEDIATE FUTURE, BUT WE'RE ASKING FOR IT NOW IF THE CASE MAY BE IN THE FUTURE, IF WE DO NEED SOME OVERFLOW FOR THAT APPROVAL, WHICH WE CAN ALSO PUT THE BEAMS AROUND AND ENCLOSE IT OFF AS IF IT'S IN THE FENCE AREA. IN TERMS OF HOW PEOPLE USE THE FRONT WALKWAY, IT'S A UNIQUE SETUP. IT'S THREE WIDE SIDEWALK, SO WE STILL HAVE THE CENTER SIDEWALK THAT PEOPLE CAN WALK THROUGH. IN A LOT OF WAYS, IT'S EASIER FOR THEM TO GRAB THE SOIL, OR GRAB THE MULCH WITHOUT HAVING AN ENCLOSURE AROUND IT. OBVIOUSLY, THAT WOULD BE THE PREFERRED MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE KEEPING IT NEAT AND TIDY IS OUR RULE OF THUMB FOR OUR PEOPLE, BUT MORE OR LESS, OBVIOUSLY, WHAT DO YOU DECIDE? IF YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND IN THE FUTURE >> GIVE ME A CALL. [LAUGHTER] >> GIVE JOHN CALL, I SHOULD SAY. [LAUGHTER] >> ANY OTHER THOUGHTS, QUESTIONS? TODAY IS JUST A PUBLIC HEARING, SO I THINK THIS WON'T BE DECIDED TONIGHT. >> I HAVE A QUESTION. IN THIS PICTURE NUMBER 2, I SEE THE HANDICAP PARKING SPACE. WHERE ARE THE OTHER HANDICAP PARKING SPACE IS AT? >> I BELIEVE THERE'S ANOTHER ONE TO THE LEFT OF WHAT YOU SEE THERE. THERE'S A NUMBER OF THEM THROUGHOUT THE CENTER. THIS IS PART OF A 60,000, I THINK SQUARE FOOT RETAIL CENTER. THERE WERE THREE TENANTS BEFORE WE TOOK THE SPACE. WE'RE IN ABOUT 11, 12,000 SQUARE FEET OF THE CENTER. OUR PARKING WRAPS AROUND ON THE SIDE. THERE'S A NUMBER OF HANDICAPPED SPACES DEPENDING ON WHERE SOMEONE'S GOING TO ACCESS FROM. >> SURE. I DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN MAYBE SCROLL UP BUT PICTURE 1. I DON'T RECALL. I DON'T SEE ANY THERE. >> THAT'S NOT THE MAIN ENTRANCE. >> THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. I GUESS THE MAIN ENTRANCE WOULD BE A SECOND PICTURE. >> THAT IS CORRECT. >> THAT WOULD BE ONE OF POTENTIALLY TWO SPOTS. WE JUST CAN'T SEE THE OTHER ONE TO THE LEFT, IS THAT CORRECT? >> JOHN, DO YOU KNOW IF THERE'S TWO OR THREE SPACES? >> THEY ARE ACTUALLY THREE ON THAT SIDE AND THEN THERE'S ANOTHER TWO ON THE LEFT SIDE. >> IF YOU COULD COME TO THE MIC, SO IT GETS ON THE RECORDING. [LAUGHTER] >> IF I RECALL TO THE LEFT OF THAT, THERE'S TWO THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING. THEN IF YOU WERE TO GO ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE BUILDING, THERE'S AN ADDITIONAL TWO THERE. >> MY ONLY CONCERN LOOKING AT THIS IS JUST THE IF I WERE PULLING INTO THAT PARKING SPOT OR EVEN THE NON HANDICAPPED SPOT ON THE FAR RIGHT, WHICH LOOKS LIKE NEXT TO A PALETTE OF MIRACLE GROW. [LAUGHTER] I USE A LOT OF THAT MYSELF. AS A CONSUMER, I MIGHT FIND THAT A LITTLE CUMBERSOME, TRYING TO OPEN MY DOOR THERE. BUT THAT'S HOW YOU WANT TO SET THAT UP. BUT I'M MORE CONCERNED WITH THE HANDICAPPED PARKING SPACE THERE, IS ALL. COULD YOU STILL KNOW THE INSIDE OF THE VEHICLE WHEN SOMEONE IS PULLING INTO THAT SPOT, HOW THEY NEED TO USE THAT SPOT GETTING A PASSENGER IN AND OUT OF THAT SIDE, IT JUST LOOKS IMPOSSIBLE TO ME. >> CERTAINLY IT WOULD NOT BE IN A HARBA'S BEST INTEREST FOR CUSTOMERS TO NOT BE ABLE TO GET OUT AS WELL. THAT WOULD BE SITUATED SO THEY COULD. I THINK PARKING WOULD HAVE BEEN REVIEWED AS PART OF THE APPROVAL OF THE USE BY RIGHT FOR THE RETAIL. I KNOW STAFF DID A REVIEW OF ADEQUATE PARKING FOR THAT. [00:20:03] THE OTHER GOING BACK TO THE COMMENT BEFORE ON AESTHETICS, IF THERE WERE A CONCERN ABOUT THE AESTHETICS AND IT'S BEAUTIFUL NOW, BUT WHAT IF IT LOOKS LIKE NOT AS BEAUTIFUL IN NINE MONTHS. ANOTHER OPTION AS PART OF THAT CONDITION IS A PERIODIC REVIEW, WHERE WE CAN COME IN WITH PHOTOS AND SAY, LOOK, IT'S BEEN 12 MONTHS, 24 MONTHS. THIS IS HOW IT'S GOING. IF THERE WERE A CONCERN OR COMPLAINTS OR THE AESTHETICS CHANGE, THIS PLANNING COMMISSION COULD DECIDE, YES, YOU DO NEED TO HAVE THAT BARRIER. >> THE OTHER THING I'LL ADD JUST ON THE PARKING SPACE. PEOPLE SEEM TO USE THAT PARKING SPACE WITH HOW IT'S SET UP AND I'VE SEEN PEOPLE PARK THERE PERSONALLY. WE'VE NEVER HEARD A COMPLAINT, BUT OBVIOUSLY, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT PASSENGERS CAN GET OUT THEIR VEHICLE SAFELY. >> THANK YOU. >> JUST FOR FUN. >> YES. >> CAN YOU SAY A FEW MORE WORDS ABOUT HOW TRAFFIC TENDS TO CIRCULATE ON THE SITE? WE LOOK AT DIFFERENT SHOPPING CENTERS AND THINGS, AND I'M JUST CURIOUS PERSONALLY, HOW DO MOST PEOPLE COME IN AND HOW DO THEY GO AROUND AND WHAT'S YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH THAT? >> I WOULD SAY THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE COME IN OFF OF OKEMOS ROAD. I THINK THAT THERE'S A RIGHT HAND IN, RIGHT HAND OUT THERE. I PERSONALLY SEE A LOT OF PEOPLE COME IN AND OUT THAT WAY. YOU DO GET PEOPLE ON OFF JOLLY THAT TURN IN THE ENTRANCE IS PROBABLY, I'M GOING TO GUESS HERE, BUT A COUPLE HUNDRED FEET DOWN. THEY FEED UP. STARBUCKS IS ON THE FAR END AND THE ENTRYWAY IS PROBABLY IN THE MIDDLE BETWEEN US AND STARBUCKS SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINES. I'D SAY LESS FILTER IN THAT WAY, BUT A NUMBER STILL FILTER IN THERE, AND WE'LL SEE PEOPLE PARKED ON THE SIDE. MOST PEOPLE PARK OUT FRONT. THERE'S ANOTHER ROW OF PARKING. ALMOST POINT OF VIEW WHERE THE CAMERA IS SITUATED HERE. THERE'S PROBABLY 15 PARKING SPACES PLUS OR MINUS ALONG THE ROW THERE. IT'S NEVER REALLY TOO CROWDED IN TERMS AND THIS IS REALLY, MAYBE PEAK SEASON, HOPEFULLY, CONTINUE TO GROW AND GET MORE TRAFFIC, OBVIOUSLY. BUT I WOULD SAY THAT THE PARKING SITUATION IS QUITE SPREAD OUT FOR WHEN PEOPLE ARE VISITING THE STORE. MORE OFF OKEMOS AND THEN A NUMBER OFF JOLLY, BUT I'D SAY LESS SO, WOULD YOU AGREE, JOHN? >> YEAH. >> YOUR ADDRESS IS ON MERIDIAN CROSSINGS? >> I BELIEVE THE CENTER IS CALLED MERIDIAN CROSSINGS. I'M NOT SURE. >> THE STREET ADDRESS IS MERIDIAN CROSSINGS. >> THE STREET ADDRESS IS MERIDIAN CROSSINGS. >> SOME PEOPLE MAY ACCESS THE SITE COMING THAT WAY FOR [INAUDIBLE]. DOES THAT EVER HAPPEN? >> DO YOU WANT TO SPEAK TO THAT? I DON'T SEE MANY PEOPLE COME OFF THE BACK SIDE OF IT. I'M SURE PEOPLE DO FILTER THROUGH, ESPECIALLY LOCALS, AS THEY KNOW IT, BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE TRAVERSING COMING OFF THE MAIN ROADS, OKEMOS I'D SAY THE MAIN POINTS. BUT FROM TIME TO TIME, PEOPLE ARE ON THE BACK SIDE, I WOULD IMAGINE. WE JUST DON'T SEE THEM AS MUCH BECAUSE WE HAVE PRODUCT ALONG THE WALL, SO WE CAN'T SEE THEM. >> THANK YOU. >> SURE. >> ANYONE ELSE HAVE THOUGHTS, QUESTIONS? I GUESS THERE'S NOBODY HERE TO DO PUBLIC COMMENT FOR THIS ITEM. THEN WE CAN CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. >> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I APPRECIATE IT AT 6:50. >> [INAUDIBLE] [LAUGHTER] THANK YOU. >> THIS WOULD BE THE POINT WHERE WE WOULD NORMALLY DO A STRAW POLL TO HELP MR. SHORKEY KNOW WHAT TYPE OF RESOLUTION TO BRING TO US AT OUR NEXT MEETING, PEOPLE WILL FEEL READY TO DO THAT OR IS THERE MORE THAT YOU'D LIKE TO DISCUSS? >> I GUESS I'M JUST CURIOUS WITH THIS SUP, I GUESS, IS IT JUST INHERENT IN THE SUP THAT THE EXPECTATION IS THAT THERE'S OFFENSE. I'M STILL NOT CLEAR ON THAT. IT DOESN'T SEEM FAIR CONSIDERING THERE ARE SO MANY ESTABLISHMENTS THAT DON'T HAVE THEM. I DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND [OVERLAPPING] >> IT'S LEGIT QUESTION BECAUSE I LITERALLY SNAPPED SOMEWHERE ON MY WAY HERE THAT HAD STUFF ALL UP. I DIDN'T ON THEIR SIDEWALK AND [OVERLAPPING] >> THERE'S SO A FEW WITH FENCING, I WOULD NEVER HAVE KNOWN THAT THAT WAS A THING WE WERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE. >> AGREED. >> MY JOB IS TO TELL YOU WHAT THE STANDARD IS. YOU'VE BEEN GIVEN OPTIONS IF YOU DIDN'T WANT TO MAKE THEM PUT A FENCE IN ON THEIR SIDEWALK AND BLOCK PEOPLE FROM THEIR ENTRANCE, I GET THAT. BUT YOU'VE BEEN GIVEN OPTIONS ON HOW TO HANDLE THIS. I'M NOT PREPARED TO SPEAK ABOUT OTHER SITES IN THE TOWNSHIP BY PREPARING TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS ONE. >> I DON'T WANT TO THROW ANY OTHER GREAT RETAIL UNDER THE BUS, EITHER. [LAUGHTER] [00:25:01] >> I'M NOT TRYING TO DO THAT EITHER. >> IT HAS BEEN INCONSISTENT. MY PERSONAL FEELING IS THAT TO TRY TO PUT FENCING IN THE SPACE WHERE WE HAVE PICTURE NUMBER 2, WOULD ACTUALLY CREATE MORE OF THE ISSUE THAT COMMISSIONER SNYDER WAS TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF RESTRICTING ACCESS AROUND AND LIMIT. IT WOULD MAKE IT LESS FUNCTIONAL AND PROBABLY MORE CUMBERSOME. >> LESS AESTHETICALLY PLEASING. >> YES. ALL OF THOSE THINGS. BUT THEN WHEN I HEAR PART OF THE REQUEST IS FOR POTENTIALLY EXPANDING INTO SOME PARKING SPACES ON ANOTHER SIDE OF THE BUILDING, THEN I WOULD WANT TO SEE FENCING SURROUNDING ANYTHING THAT WAS IN AN AREA WHERE A VEHICLE MIGHT TRAVERSE SO THAT SOMEBODY AT NIGHT, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE COULD? >> ABSOLUTELY. >> I WOULD LOVE TO SUGGEST THAT AS AN OPTION, IF OTHERS WOULD BE WILLING TO ENTERTAIN THAT AS A COMPROMISE SOLUTION. >> THAT MAKES SENSE TO ME. >> I WAS GOING TO COMMENT THAT I SWITCH SOME WAY FOR THIS NOT EVEN TO FALL UNDER BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF EASE OF ENFORCEMENT. IT'S NOT AN EASY THING TO ENFORCE. I'M AGAINST MORE FENCING. I NOTE THE IDEA OF A CINDER BLOCK AND ROAD TIE OF LIKE SIX MONTHS DOWN THE ROAD IN MICHIGAN WEATHER, THAT LOOKS TERRIBLE. IT GETS DIRTY, AND IT JUST SAYS, NO FENCE. YOU GUYS, I'M SURE YOU'D MAINTAINED A BITS BUT THERE'S ONLY SO MUCH YOU CAN DO. I REMAIN ANTI-FENCE. >> I LIKE THE FENCING THAT'S SHOWN IN PICTURE NUMBER 1 THAT'S PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT, I THINK. IT GIVES IT A NICE CLEAN LOOK, BUT I THINK TOO. >> I DO WONDER IF IN LOOKING AT PICTURE NUMBER 2, IF IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE TO RELOCATE THOSE PALETTES OFF OF THAT PENINSULA. JUST AGAIN, POTENTIALLY FOR ACCESSIBILITY REASONS AND ESPECIALLY IF THERE IS GOING TO BE PRODUCT EXPANSION INTO THOSE THREE OR SO PARKING SPOTS ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE BUILDING. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S GOING TO BE MORE PROBLEMATIC FOR THE BUSINESS. IT'S NOT MY INTENT. >> WELL, JUST TO CLARIFY, AND YOU CAN'T TELL IT A LOT FROM THE PICTURE, BUT THIS, OF COURSE, IS ACCESSIBLE FROM THE FRONT. THERE ARE ACCESSIBLE SIDE RAMPS AS WELL. IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY. THIS IS CURB. YOU'RE NOT GETTING UP ON THAT CURB ANYWAY WITH THE MOBILITY ISSUE. >> SURE. >> IN THIS CASE, THEY COULD COME OUT AND GO AROUND OR THEY'D COME IN AND GO THIS WAY LIKE LIKE THE WALKWAYS DESIGNED. >> SURE. I UNDERSTAND THAT. >> I'M NOT I'M NOT TRYING TO SAY YOU'RE WRONG. I'M JUST POINTING OUT THAT MAYBE THE PICTURE IS NOT CLEAR. >> I ECHO OTHER COMMENTS. I'VE HEARD FROM OTHER COMMISSIONERS THAT I CAN THINK OF MANY PLACES THAT I FIND FIREWOOD FOR SALE OUTSIDE THE FRONT DOOR. I BELIEVE THAT THAT CAGE IS PROBABLY GAS BOTTLES THAT ARE BEING PURCHASED OR EXCHANGED. I'M PRETTY RELUCTANT TO START IMPOSING STANDARDS THAT WE ARE ALL FAMILIAR WITH A LOT OF WHAT WOULD THEN BE NON-COMPLIANCE? I CAN ALMOST IMAGINE AN ARGUMENT FOR A SAFETY STANDARD THAT THE STACKS NOT BE TOO HIGH. IF I'M GOING TO ACCIDENTALLY OPEN MY DOOR, I'D MUCH RATHER BE A BAG OF FERTILIZER THAN A FENCE. [LAUGHTER] I THINK WE ARE SCRATCHING OUR HEADS, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, IS THIS AN ISSUE WE WANT TO REGULATE AND IF SO, HOW? BEFORE WE START GRANTING A WONDERFUL OFFER TO PUT UP SOME FENCING THAT YOU DON'T NORMALLY SEE. THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS AT THIS POINT. >> WELCOME [OVERLAPPING] >> I THINK WE SHOULD ASSIGN TOWNSHIP STAFF TO DO A SURVEY OF EVERY RETAIL ESTABLISHMENT. >> WE JUST HIRED AN INTERN. >> THAT SOUNDS LIKE A WONDERFUL SUMMER PROJECT. DOES THAT GIVE YOU ENOUGH DIRECTION TO BE ABLE TO WRITE A RESOLUTION? WELL, WE HAVEN'T EVEN DONE A STRAW POLL YET, BUT NO. >> BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE I'LL PUT TOGETHER A RESOLUTION ON THE SOUTH SIDE, KEEP IT ON THE PAVED AREA, MAINTAIN PEDESTRIAN ACCESS, AND ON THE WEST SIDE, [00:30:02] IF YOU DO EXPAND TEMPORARY FENCING, AS EXPLAINED, THE CINDER BLOCKS AND THE BEAMS [OVERLAPPING] FOR THE DURATION OF THE EXPANSION OF THAT OF THAT OUTDOOR. THIS IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, ORDINANCES PHILOSOPHICALLY. A LOT OF TIME, WELL, MAYBE IT IS SLIDING ON UNDER THE RADAR, BUT NOW YOU WANT TO DO SOMETHING. WELL, NOW YOU'VE GOT TO BRING EVERYTHING UP TO STANDARDS. IT'S NOT JUST OUTDOOR RETAIL AT THAT POINT, IT'S EVERYTHING HAS TO COME UP. >> THAT'S WHY WE HAVE VARIANCES SOMETIMES. BUT ANYWAY, IF THAT SOUNDS LIKE A PATH FORWARD, THAT'S WHAT I'M HEARING OUT OF THIS CONVERSATION. IF YOU WANT TO DO A MORE FORMAL STRAW POLL VOTE THAT'S FINE, BUT I CAN PUT THAT RESOLUTION TOGETHER. >> I DON'T KNOW THAT WE NEED TO DO A STRAW POLL [OVERLAPPING]. >> THE PROCESS, THIS WAS THE PUBLIC HEARING. THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO ACTUALLY MAKE A FORMAL VOTE TONIGHT. I'M GOING TO GO BACK. I'M GOING TO WRITE A RESOLUTION. WE'LL BE BACK IN TWO WEEKS. THAT'S WHEN THEY'LL VOTE. THE PUBLIC HEARING HAS BEEN HAD, SO THAT'S NOT GOING TO REOPEN. YOU HEARD THE CONVERSATION AND WHAT I'M GOING TO PUT TOGETHER. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WELCOME, COMMISSIONER BROOKS. >> HI. APOLOGIES FOR BEING SO LATE. >> WE APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE AT ALL. THIS IS GREAT. >> WE WON'T TAKE YOUR IF YOU DON'T STICK AROUND. [LAUGHTER] [OVERLAPPING] >> YOU'RE WELCOME TO LEAVE. THANK YOU FOR COMING. WE APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. GOOD CALL. WE ARE NOW ON TO ITEM 7B ON OUR AGENDA, [7.B. PUD #25012 – Hulett Road Estate] WHICH IS PLAN UNIT DEVELOPMENT NUMBER 25012 HULETT ROAD ESTATE. >> THIS I'LL GIVE IT TO YOU. >> THANK YOU. >> [INAUDIBLE] >> IF THERE'S ANYBODY ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO GIVE PUBLIC, I GUESS YOU ARE THE PERSON HERE TO GIVE US PUBLIC COMMENT. WE'LL CALL YOU UP IN JUST A MOMENT AFTER WE HEAR FROM STAFF AND THE APPLICANT. THANK YOU. OPENING THIS PUBLIC HEARING AT 7:01. >. TO GET THROUGH, YOU SEE THE PLAN THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT, WHICH A GOOD PLANNER WOULD HAVE BROUGHT THAT UP AND SHOW YOU. WAS IN YOUR PACKET. THIS IS PLANED HULETT DEVELOPMENT NUMBER 25012 HULETT ROAD ESTATES. THIS IS TO DEVELOP A PUD, PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT CONSISTING OF SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL UNITS ON APPROXIMATELY FIVE ACRES LOCATED AT 5360 HULETT ROAD NORTH OF JOLLY ROAD, ACROSS THE STREET FROM OKEMOS HIGH SCHOOL. VERY SIMPLY, THIS WAS HERE IN FRONT OF YOU, IN FRONT OF THIS BOARD PREVIOUSLY, PUD NUMBER 22014 AUGUST 4TH, 2022. THAT PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT WENT THROUGH THE APPROVAL PROCESS, MEANING YOU GUYS GAVE A RECOMMENDATION. IT GOES TO THE BOARD. THE BOARD APPROVED IT. THAT PUT THEM INTO SITE PLAN REVIEW. DURING THE PUTTING TOGETHER OF SAID SITE PLAN, THE PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT EXPIRED. THERE IS COMMUNICATION IN THERE FROM THE INGHAM COUNTY ROAD DEPARTMENT, INGHAM COUNTY DREAM COMMISSIONER'S OFFICE ON THIS. WE DIDN'T HAVE THAT IN 2022, AND I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO SAY. THE CUL-DE-SAC THAT'S GOING TO BE BUILT, IT'S BEING DONE AS A PRIVATE AS A PUD SO THAT THAT CAN BE DONE AS, MY UNDERSTANDING IS A PRIVATE DRIVE BECAUSE THE ROAD DEPARTMENT DOESN'T WANT TO ACCEPT IT. THE APPLICANT IS HERE TO SPEAK ABOUT THE PROJECT. >> THANK YOU. >> I SHOULD NOTE THAT THESE FIVE NEW HOUSES, THAT IS THE HISTORICAL FARMHOUSE ON THE SITE. ONE OF THE SIX IS THE HISTORICAL FARMHOUSE, SO IT'S PRESERVED. >> THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. SHORKEY? WOULD YOU LIKE TO HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT? >> SURE. >> I BELIEVE YOU'RE HERE TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT. MR. GIGUERE, PLEASE COME INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND LET US KNOW WHAT YOU PLAN TO DO? >> MY NAME IS JIM GIGUERE. I'M GIGUERE HOMES. I LIVE AT 15098 SENIORS COURT, BATH, MICHIGAN. THIS WAS A PLAN THAT I SUBMITTED BACK IN 2022. UNFORTUNATELY, I GUESS I MISSED MY EXPIRATION DATE, AND I DIDN'T ASK FOR AN EXTENSION, WHICH I COULD HAVE HAD, BUT I JUST DIDN'T REALIZE, TIME JUST FLEW BY. [00:35:04] WE MET WITH THE ROAD COMMISSION AND THE DRAIN COMMISSION, AND PRETTY MUCH GOT ALL THE BUGS WORKED OUT WITH THE DRAIN COMMISSION. TOOK A LONG TIME TO DO THAT. ONE OF THE BIG THINGS TOOK A LONG TIME, THERE WAS A POND ON THE MEADOWS THAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO PUT ANY WATER FROM OUR POND TO THEIR POND, AND THEN IT GOES TO THE INGHAM DRAIN. WELL, THAT TOOK ME ABOUT ALMOST A YEAR TO FIND OUT THAT THE MEADOWS DECIDED THAT THEY COULDN'T APPROVE IT. I FOUND A DIFFERENT ALTERNATIVE METHOD TO GET TO THE INGHAM DRAIN, IN WHICH RIGHT NOW, I MET WITH THE DRAIN COMMISSION AND THEY SAID THAT THEY SEE NO REASON WHY THAT WILL BE APPROVED. THEY WERE JUST CHECKING THROUGH A FEW THINGS. BASICALLY, ONCE IT GETS THROUGH THE PROCESS, IT SHOULD BE MOVING FORWARD FAIRLY QUICKLY. THAT'S USUALLY THE PROCESS. BUT IT'S A NICE DEVELOPMENT. I'M LEAVING THE FARM HOUSE THAT'S THERE THAT WAS BUILT IN 18 60. I'M DOING A LITTLE RENOVATION ON AND ADDING A GARAGE TO IT, UPDATING IT WITH PUBLIC WATER AND SEWER, PUTTING A GARAGE ON IT, AND GETTING SOME UPDATES IN THE UNIT AND KEEPING THAT THERE AS A NICE HISTORICAL IN ADDITION TO THE COMMUNITY, AND THEN THE OTHER ONES WILL BE NICE HOMES FOR OKEMOS RESIDENTS RIGHT ACROSS FROM OKEMOS HIGH SCHOOL. >> THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. GIGUERE? >> I'D LOVE TO HEAR MORE ABOUT THE PLANS FOR THE EXISTING FARMHOUSE. IT SOUNDS WONDERFUL. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING? >> I'M JUST BASICALLY GOING TO ADD A TWO-CAR GARAGE TO IT. UPDATE SOME INTERIOR AMENITIES. THERE'S GOOD FOUNDATION ON IT, SO I'LL PROBABLY JUST REPLACE THE CARPET THAT WAS THERE WITH MAYBE LVP FLOOR. >> WOULD IT BE INHABITED? >> PARDON? WOULD IT BE LIVED IN? >> YES, OF COURSE. YES. IT'S A VERY HABITABLE SPOT. THE PEOPLE WHO BOUGHT IT HAD IT BEFORE LIVED THERE, AND THEY WERE ONE OWNERS. IT'S A REALLY EXCELLENT CONDITION FOR AN OLD HOME. >> YEAH. THAT IS NEAT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? DO WE WANT TO DO A STRAW POLL? >> NO. YOU HAVE THE PUBLIC HEARING. >> I'M SORRY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. GIGUERE. WE MAY HAVE QUESTIONS AFTER WE HEAR PUBLIC COMMENT, BUT WE'LL CALL A PERSON UP WHO IS. >> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. I MOMENTARILY SPACED. >> I'M SO SORRY. MR. JAMES CARTER. >> [INAUDIBLE]. [LAUGHTER] >> THANK YOU. IF YOU'D GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND THEN YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES TO SPEAK. >> JAMES CARTER. 226 HULETT ROAD. I'VE LIVED IN OKEMOS ABOUT 30 YEARS NOW. LAST 24, THE CURRENT ADDRESS. HAD SOME QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT BECAUSE THIS IS NOT MY FIRST RODEO WITH ALL THESE SUBDIVISIONS AND WHATNOT GOING IN ALONG HULETT ROAD. WHAT HAPPENS IS YOU GET THIS HEAVY TRUCK TRAFFIC COMING FROM THE NORTH OR COMING FROM CONSTRUCTION SITES GOING BACK NORTH. IT TEARS UP THE ROAD BECAUSE THERE'S NO POLICING ON A NO TRUCK ROUTE. THE QUESTION I HAVE FOR THE APPLICANT, IS HE AWARE OF THE ORDINANCE INVOLVED? >> YES. >>> I'M SORRY, I SHOULD HAVE SAID THAT WE DO NOT NORMALLY INTERACT DURING PUBLIC COMMENT. THIS IS TIME FOR YOU. COMMISSIONERS MAY DECIDE TO ASK QUESTIONS. YOU'RE WELCOME TO HAVE COMMENT. >> WELL. >> PLEASE ADDRESS THE CHAIR. >> THE ORDINANCE SAYS FOR A TRUCK TO BE ON A NO TRUCK ROUTE, THEY HAVE TO TAKE THE SHORTEST ROUTE FROM WHERE THEY GOING OR WHERE THEY'RE COMING FROM TO THE NEAREST TRUCK ROAD, WHICH, IN THIS CASE, WOULD BE JOLLY ROAD. BECAUSE YOU'RE ALMOST RIGHT ON THE CORNER. THERE'S NO EXCUSE FOR ANY HEAVY TRUCK TRAFFIC GOING UP AND DOWN HULETT ROAD, EXCEPT FOR THAT LITTLE CORNER GOING TO JOLLY. THE QUESTION I WOULD HAVE FOR THE APPLICANT IS, HOW IS HE GOING TO MITIGATE THAT TRUCK TRAFFIC? [00:40:03] I'VE GOT SOME SUGGESTIONS. HE COULD PUT ON A BIG SIGN WHERE HIS TRUCK STUFF GOING IN OUT, HAVE TO GO TO JOLLY ROAD. MAYBE SIGN CONTRACTS WITH HIS CONTRACTORS, SUBCONTRACTORS THAT THEY HAVE TO PROMISE NOT TO GO DOWN HULETT ROAD, TAKING A SHORTCUT. THEN THE OTHER QUESTION I'D HAVE FOR THE APPLICANT IS WHEN IS HE GOING TO START THE CONSTRUCTION OF THIS BECAUSE AS MOST OF YOU ARE AWARE, HULETT ROAD IS GOING TO BE REPAVED NEXT YEAR. THE PURPOSE IS TO PUT IN A ROAD TO CLEAR UP ALL THE DAMAGE THAT'S ALREADY BEEN DONE. IT MIGHT BE WORTHWHILE TO SAY, WELL, HOLD OFF THE CONSTRUCTION UNTIL THE ROAD'S DONE. HOW ARE YOU GOING TO HANDLE THAT? >> THANK YOU. >> I'D LIKE TO WORK WITH ANYBODY THAT YOU GUYS THINK I NEED TO WORK WITH FROM THE TOWNSHIP TO MITIGATE ALL THIS. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> YEAH. >> I DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER PUBLIC COMMENT, BUT ANY OTHER THOUGHTS, QUESTIONS FOR STAFF FOR MR. GIGUERE? ACTUALLY, WE CAN CLOSE OUR PUBLIC COMMENT AT 7:11. IT'S BEEN TWO WEEKS AND I'M OUT OF PRACTICE HERE, SORRY. ANY OTHER THOUGHTS OR COMMENTS FROM PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS? >> NO. >> I HAVE A QUESTION. >> GO AHEAD, COMMISSIONER BROOKS. >> MR. SHORKEY [INAUDIBLE], I FEEL LIKE WE DON'T SEE A LOT OF PUDS. I KNOW IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE WE'VE SEEN THIS ONE. CAN YOU JUST GIVE A BROAD OVERVIEW OF PUDS? >> BROADLY SPEAKING, A PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT ALLOWS FLEXIBILITY IN THE DESIGN IN RETURN FOR PRESERVATION OF OPEN SPACE. THIS WOULD NOT BE DEVELOPABLE IN THIS WAY WITHOUT THE PUD, GET THE SIX LOTS, AND NOT THE WAY THAT HE'S PROPOSING TO DO IT, BECAUSE YOU GOT TO BUILD THE STREET, THE TOWNSHIP ALLOWS A PRIVATE ROAD IN A PUD. NOT IN A CONVENTIONAL DEVELOPMENT. THAT'S BASICALLY THE HIGH LEVEL VIEW OF IT. HE'S PERMANENTLY DEDICATING OPEN SPACE AROUND THE EDGES OF THE DEVELOPMENT. HE'S PROTECTING THE 40 FOOT BUFFER AROUND THE WETLAND ON THE SOUTHEAST CORNER AND BY VIRTUE OF THAT PROTECTING THE POND, AND THEN IN RETURN, HE'S DEVELOPING THE SITE SIX LOTS. >> THE PUD THEN WOULD CONNECT TO THE PUBLIC UTILITIES? >> YES. I'VE GOT IT IF YOU WANT TO SEE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, SINCE I DIDN'T DO IT LAST TIME. SHOULD BE IN HERE. YEAH, HERE. HERE IS AN EXAMPLE. ALL OF THIS HATCHED AREA IS PERMANENTLY PRESERVED OPEN SPACE. TO THE POINT THAT WAS MADE ABOUT THE TRAFFIC, I'D LIKE TO ADDRESS. I THINK IT'S A LEGITIMATE POINT. JOLLY ROAD IS RIGHT HERE TO THE SOUTH. IT'S JUST REAL SHORT DISTANCE UP. I'LL SHOW YOU NOT ON THAT. I'LL SHOW YOU ON THIS. LET'S SEE. HERE'S THE SITE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT JOLLY ROAD, OKEMOS HIGH SCHOOL. YOU WOULD JUST COME UP JOLLY ROAD, HEEL IT TO THIS POINT, COME BACK HERE, GO BACK AND THEN EITHER GO THIS WAY TO HAGADORN OR THIS WAY TO OKEMOS. >> WE APPROVED THIS IN 2022. I DON'T RECALL. I SAW SOME OF THE COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE DRAINAGE COMMISSION. BROADLY, WHAT WERE THE PROBLEMS AGAIN? >> AS EXPLAINED BY THE APPLICANT, AND I CAN LET HIM TALK MORE DETAIL, THE DRAIN COMMISSION WANTED THEIR STORM WATER TO END UP IN A CERTAIN PLACE. WORKING WITH THE DRAIN COMMISSION'S OFFICE TO GET IT TO THAT PLACE PROVED TO BE MORE CHALLENGING THAN ORIGINALLY THOUGHT. THERE'S ALSO CONVERSATIONS WITH INGHAM COUNTY ROAD DEPARTMENT CONNECTING TO THEIR ROAD SYSTEM WITH HIS DRIVE. I CAN'T SPEAK TO ANY ISSUES ON THE PLANNING SIDE OF IT [00:45:04] BECAUSE I DON'T THINK WE EVER GOT AN OFFICIAL SITE PLAN. OR MAYBE WE DID AND WE SENT COMMENTS. YEAH. MAYBE WE DID. YEAH, WE DID GET IT. I APOLOGIZE. IT WAS THREE YEARS AGO. WE DID RECEIVE A SITE PLAN, ACTUALLY SPEAKING, BEGIN THE PROCESS OF SITE PLAN APPROVAL. WE SENT COMMENTS. I DON'T REMEMBER THE SPECIFICS OF WHAT WE SENT, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER ANYTHING THAT WAS DEAL BREAKING ON OUR END. SOMETHING TO MAKE SURE THERE'S SIDEWALKS AROUND THE CUL-DE-SAC. >> THAT SOUNDS FAMILIAR. [LAUGHTER] >> JUST TO CLARIFY NOTHING IN AN APPROVAL OF A PUD WOULDN'T HAVE A SPACE TO ADD IN ANYTHING ABOUT TRUCK TRAFFIC, BUT THAT IS ALREADY AN EXISTING ORDINANCE SO IF THERE WERE VIOLATIONS OF THAT, I WOULD ASSUME SOMEONE IN THE TOWNSHIP COULD TAKE THOSE REPORTS AND ADDRESS THEM IF THERE WAS TRUCK TRAFFIC GOING ON PORTIONS OF THE ROAD WHERE THEY WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO [OVERLAPPING] >> ROAD JURISDICTION IS THE ROAD DEPARTMENT. BUT IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO MAKE THAT A CONDITION OF YOUR APPROVAL, I WOULD URGE THAT. >> MR. SHORKEY, HE MENTIONED A HEAVY TRUCK. DO WE KNOW WHAT A HEAVY TRUCK IS DEFINED AS? >> NO, I DON'T. AS I STAND HERE, I'D HAVE TO RESEARCH THE ISSUE. >> WELL, I'M JUST THINKING ABOUT IT THIS WAY. >> I'M NOT THINKING IT'S A TYPICAL WORK TRUCK. >> NO. >> LIKE AN EARTH MOVER. >> YEAH, BECAUSE I'M JUST THINKING ABOUT THE PRACTICALITY OF GOING DOWN HULETT ROAD THE OTHER WAY. THERE'S THAT CUL-DE-SAC YOU HIT PRETTY QUICK. >> YES. >> I'VE SEEN PEOPLE STRUGGLE IN A BIG TRUCK, NONETHELESS, IN A BIG STANDARD TRUCK. I DON'T THINK A HEAVY-DUTY TRUCK WOULD NECESSARILY EVEN BE ABLE TO GET THROUGH THERE. >> THUS, WHY I'M SUGGESTING. I USED TO WORK FOR A ROAD COMMISSION. THE ORDINANCE IS ON THE BOOKS, THERE ARE DEDICATED TRUCK ROUTES, JUST SAYING THAT IN YOUR APPROVAL, JUST IN THE RESPONSE TO THE PUBLIC COMMENT, IT WOULD BE FAIR TO JUST MAINTAIN THAT ORDINANCE. >> I WOULD ASSUME THE PRESUMPTION WOULD BE IF YOU ISSUE A PUD, THAT THE APPLICANT IS REQUIRED TO FOLLOW N&L LAWS AND OTHER ORDINANCES THAT FOLLOW. >> THE QUESTION BECOMES ENFORCEMENT, AND THE CHAIR ASKED WOULD THE TOWNSHIP ENFORCEMENT, AND THE ANSWER IS NO. THE ROAD DEPARTMENT HAS PERSONNEL WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO DO THAT. >> I WAS JUST POINTING OUT FROM A PRACTICAL PERSPECTIVE, GOING THE OTHER WAY WITH A HEAVY TRUCK MAY BE A PRACTICAL IMPOSSIBILITY, MORE SO THAN EVEN A LEGAL IMPOSSIBILITY. BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO HIT THAT CUL-DE-SAC. >> ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE TRAFFIC CIRCLE? >> YES, I'M SORRY, TRAFFIC CIRCLE. THE WORD CUL-DE-SAC WAS IN THE PRIOR ONE, SO IT STUCK IN MY HEAD. >> NO, IT'S FINE. >> THE FRENCH ORIGINS OF IT HAVE BEEN RACING THROUGH MY BRAIN. [LAUGHTER] >> IT MIGHT BE USEFUL FOR OUR CONSIDERATION TO KNOW MORE ABOUT PLANS FOR RECONSTRUCTION OF THE ROAD, THE DATE, TIMING, THE DESIGN. I DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN GET MORE INFORMATION. >> I CAN GET THAT INFORMATION FOR YOU. >> AGAIN, I WOULD THINK THAT IT WOULD BE IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE APPLICANT TO COORDINATE THE TIMING SUCH THAT YOU'RE NOT LIMITED BY ROAD CLOSURES DUE TO RECONSTRUCTION. >> CONSIDERING HE NEEDS THE ROAD DEPARTMENT'S APPROVAL BEFORE WE APPROVE HIS SITE PLAN, I WOULD THINK THAT THEY'RE GOING TO KNOW THEIR SCHEDULE, AND THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE HIM COORDINATE WITH THEM. DOES THAT SOUND LIKE A FAIR STATEMENT? YES. >> THANK YOU. SORRY. >> THANK YOU. >> QUESTION REGARDING SINCE ACCESS OFF OF HULETT IS GOING TO BE ON A PRIVATE ROAD, AND A PRIVATE ROAD DOES NOT FALL IN THE JURISDICTION OF THE IN COUNTY ROAD COMMISSION, CORRECT? >> THAT IS CORRECT. >> WHAT PROVISIONS WILL BE MADE AT THIS PARTICULAR RIGHT OF WAY, OR ACCESS WILL BE UP TO STANDARDS AND NOT ALLOWED TO DETERIORATE? >> THE SIX HOMES WILL HAVE TO BE UNDER SOME SORT OF AN ASSOCIATION. THEY'LL PAY DUES HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATION TYPE SCENARIO, AND ANY IMPROVEMENTS THAT THEY NEED TO MAKE WILL BE ON THEM. >> YOU'RE GOING TO REQUIRE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION FOR THIS PARTICULAR SITE? >> THEY ALREADY HAVE COMMON LAND, SO THEY HAVE TO. [00:50:02] >> I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THE EXACT VERBIAGE THAT HE'LL USE, [FOREIGN] [OVERLAPPING], BUT IT IS PART OF A PUD. IT WILL BE SOME SORT OF AN ASSOCIATION. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, THOUGHTS, COMMENTS? >> IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THE ROAD COMMISSION, NOT ROAD, IN-COUNTY? >> WE KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN. >> SORRY. GOOD, I'M GLAD. COULD THEY JUST SAY NO, YOU CAN'T BUILD A PRIVATE ROAD HERE EITHER? >> THEY CAN SAY NO, YOU CAN'T BUILD IT LIKE THAT. THEY CAN TELL YOU WHAT STANDARDS IT HAS TO MEET. >> WELL, THERE ARE STANDARDS FOR BUILDING THE PRIVATE ROAD, THAT IS TRUE, BUT THE PRIVATE ROAD WON'T BE UNDER THE JURISDICTION OF THE ROAD DEPARTMENT. WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE CONTROL IS CONNECTING TO THEIR ROAD SYSTEM. IF YOU WANT SPECIFICS ON HOW THOSE CONVERSATIONS HAVE BEEN GOING, I WILL TURN THE FLOOR OVER TO MR. GIGUERE. >> SINCE WE'VE ALREADY DONE PUBLIC COMMENT [OVERLAPPING] >> I THINK WE CAN ASK ANOTHER QUESTION OF THE APPLICANT IF WE WANTED TO, BUT I'M NOT SURE. >> BUT AGAIN, I COME BACK TO WE WON'T APPROVE THE SITE PLAN, THUS HE'S NOT GOING TO GET HIS BUILDING PERMITS IF THE INGHAM COUNTY ROAD DEPARTMENT DOESN'T APPROVE, AND HE'S BEEN IN CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM. THERE'S AN EMAIL IN THERE IN YOUR PACKET TO THAT EFFECT [BACKGROUND] >> [OVERLAPPING] WE'RE DONE WITH PUBLIC COMMENT, SO NO. >> IN THE PAST, IN THIS INSTANCE, WE'VE GIVEN THE APPLICANT A SENSE OF THE THINGS WE'D LIKE TO HEAR MORE ABOUT NEXT TIME THEY COME BACK TO US. >> THANK YOU. >> WE MIGHT ALSO REMIND OUR PUBLIC THAT WE WILL HAVE PUBLIC COMMENT AT THE END OF THE AGENDA. >> THANK YOU. BOTH VERY GOOD REMINDERS. THANK YOU. I DON'T KNOW IF EVERYBODY HEARD WHAT MR. MCCONNELL SAID, BUT THAT YOU'VE HEARD SOME OF THE THINGS, MR. GIGUERE, THAT WE ARE INTERESTED IN KNOWING MORE ABOUT. IF ANYBODY HAS ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU'D LIKE TO ADD TO THAT LIST, THIS WOULD BE A GOOD TIME TO RAISE IT. THEN FOR YOU, MR. CARTER, JUST KNOW THAT OUR PUBLIC COMMENT FOR THIS PORTION OF THE MEETING IS DONE, THE PUBLIC HEARING IS DONE, BUT WE DO HAVE ANOTHER PUBLIC COMMENT OPPORTUNITY AT THE END OF THE MEETING IF YOU HAVE MORE THAT YOU'D LIKE TO SHARE. >> SURE. >> THEN NOTHING PREVENTS YOU FROM, IF MR. GIGUERE IS WILLING, ASKING HIM QUESTIONS DIRECTLY OR COMING TO THE NEXT MEETING AT WHICH THIS IS CONSIDERED AND SHARING YOUR THOUGHTS DURING THE FIRST PUBLIC COMMENT PORTION OF THAT MEETING AS WELL, AND HEARING MORE ABOUT WHAT IF WE GET ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS WE'RE HAVING. THIS WILL LIKELY BE ON OUR NEXT AGENDA, AND THERE'LL BE THIS INFORMATION AND THEN ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION THAT'S BEEN SHARED WITH US AT THAT POINT IN THAT MEETING PACKET. ANY OTHER BOARD MEMBERS HAVE QUESTIONS, THOUGHTS, COMMENTS, TO ADD TO THE LIST? WE CAN DO A STRAW POLL. >> I HAVE ONE, I'M SORRY. >> GO AHEAD, MR. BROOKS. >> I'M ALWAYS TOO SLOW HERE. MY REQUEST IS SOME MORE DETAIL ON WHY. WE SEE THE LETTERS IN THE PACKET, OR THE EMAILS WERE DATED 2022, AND I'M CURIOUS IF THERE WAS EXCHANGES AFTER THAT THAT WE'RE NOT SEEING, AND SOME MORE DETAILS ONTO WHY THAT LAPSE HAPPENED BETWEEN APPROVING IT ORIGINALLY AND NOW. >> IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO ASK THE APPLICANT ABOUT THAT, THAT'S FINE. STAFF SUPPLIED THE EMAILS THAT WERE SENT AS PART OF THE APPLICATION PACKAGE. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? >> YEAH. >> I DON'T HAVE, SITTING IN MY OFFICE, REAMS OF EMAILS BETWEEN THE APPLICANT AND THE DEPARTMENTS, SO I'M NOT SITTING ON THOSE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. IF YOU WANTED MORE SPECIFICS, IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHERE THEY STAND, I THINK THE ILLUSION WAS MADE THAT THE DRAIN COMMISSIONER OFFICE IS JUST WRAPPING UP SOME DETAILS BEFORE THEY GIVE APPROVAL. I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE ROAD DEPARTMENT STANDS OFFICIALLY. >> THANK YOU, MR. SHORKEY. I WASN'T ASKING YOU SPECIFICALLY, I WAS THINKING IF THE APPLICANT COULD PROVIDE THOSE DETAILS. I AGREE WITH YOUR SECOND POINT, THOUGH, ABOUT HAVING AN UPDATE ON WHERE THINGS STAND MORE EXPLICITLY. >> IS THIS SOMETHING THAT CAN COME BACK WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THIS THE NEXT TIME? >> YEAH. >> PERFECT. >> THANK YOU. >> I WOULD ENTERTAIN A STRAW POLL IF PEOPLE ARE READY TO SHARE THEIR THOUGHTS ON THIS. NO? >> I CAN'T WAIT TO HEAR MORE. [LAUGHTER] >> SECOND. >> THOSE WHO WOULD BE LIKELY TO SUPPORT, SAY AYE. [00:55:02] >> AYE. >> AYE. >> AYE. >> ANY OPPOSED OR ANY THOUGHTS, COMMENTS? >> I'M REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO HEARING MORE [LAUGHTER] >> THIS IS NOT AN OFFICIAL VOTE; THIS WAS JUST TO GET THE WILL OF THE COMMISSION. WE LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING MORE, AND THIS WILL BE OUR VOTE IN OUR NEXT MEETING. >> I WILL WRITE YOU A RESOLUTION OF APPROVAL. YOU MAY APPROVE IT OR NOT. TYPICALLY, THOSE SECOND SAF MEMOS ARE PRETTY SHORT. I'LL WRITE YOU A LONGER ONE. I WILL ADDRESS THESE QUESTIONS, SEE IF I CAN GET SOME MORE DETAIL FOR YOU ON SOME OF THIS STUFF. IF APPROPRIATE, I'LL ADD CONDITIONS INTO THE RESOLUTION. >> PERFECT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. NOW YOU'RE ONTO UNFINISHED [OVERLAPPING] >> MR. GIGUERE, YOU'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS PROCESS BEFORE, BUT THEY'LL VOTE AT A FUTURE MEETING. IT THEN GOES TO THE BOARD BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION. THE BOARD HAS FINAL APPROVAL, AND WE'LL BE IN TOUCH. >> WE HAVE NO UNFINISHED BUSINESS. WE HAVE OTHER BUSINESS. [9.A. Off-Street Parking – Sec. 86-758 – Parking Landscaping Discussion] WE HAVE ITEM 9A OFF-STREET PARKING, SECTION 86-758 PARKING LANDSCAPING DISCUSSION [BACKGROUND] >> THIS IS AN ONGOING CONVERSATION. GO THIS WAY. MAKE IT SMALLER. THERE WE GO. THAT'S THE ORIGINAL APPROVAL LETTER FOR THAT PD. PARKING LANDSCAPING UPDATES. WE'VE DISCUSSED PARKING LANDSCAPING AT PREVIOUS MEETINGS. SINCE THEN, STAFF HAS MET BEHIND THE SCENES, DISCUSSED PREVIOUS WORK, BECAUSE I SAID WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE WE STARTED TALKING TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION ABOUT IT. WE HAVE A DRAFT ORDINANCE UPDATE FOR YOU IN THIS PACKET, AND THAT IS PRESENTED FOR YOUR REVIEW. YOU'VE HAD IT AVAILABLE TO YOU NOW FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS. WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT IN DETAIL, OR YOU CAN TAKE YOUR TIME, READ IT, WE CAN COME BACK, BUT IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I AM HERE. >> THANK YOU. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS? ARE WE READY TO GIVE DIRECTION TO MR. SHORKEY? >> IF YOU ARE HAPPY WITH WHAT YOU SEE IN FRONT OF YOU, I CAN SET A PUBLIC HEARING DATE. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THIS IS SET IN STONE, OF COURSE. IF I SET A PUBLIC HEARING DATE. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU SEE, HEY, I'D LIKE THAT TO BE 150 INSTEAD OF 200 OR WHATEVER, THEN THIS IS STILL A CHANGEABLE FORM. YOU'RE SIMPLY SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING AND LETTING THE PUBLIC KNOW THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT THIS OFFICIALLY. [BACKGROUND] AT THIS POINT, THAT MEETING WOULD BE THE FIRST MEETING IN JULY. I KEEP SETTING MY NOTES DOWN. >> IF YOU SET A PUBLIC HEARING, IT LOOKS LIKE THIS IS STILL ON THE TENTATIVE AGENDA FOR OUR NEXT MEETING. IF WE HAD COMMENTS, WE COULD BRING THOSE BACK TO YOU THEN, OR WILL YOU NEED TO HAVE SOMETHING READY TO PUBLISH RIGHT BEFORE THAT? >> IT CAN BE ON YOUR AGENDA AS A DISCUSSION ITEM AT YOUR NEXT MEETING. IT WILL NOT BE A PUBLIC HEARING. >> IF ANYBODY WANTED TO COME BACK, LIKE, I DIDN'T NOTICE THIS? >> YEAH. STAFF WILL LEAVE IT ON THERE, AND THEN MAYBE IT'S A QUICK MEMO, HEY, WE'VE SCHEDULED THE PUBLIC HEARING. I'LL INCLUDE EVERYTHING THAT YOU SEE HERE, JUST CHANGE THE DATE ON THE MEMO AND UPDATE IT. OF COURSE, IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE COMMENTS, THAT'S GREAT, BUT IT'S NOT THE PUBLIC HEARING. >> AS I RECALL, OUR LAST CONVERSATION ON THIS, I THINK IT WAS JUST CURIOSITY MORE THAN CONCERN ABOUT ANY OF THE THINGS THAT YOU HAD ADDED, SO IT SEEMS LIKE THIS IS PRETTY NON-CONTROVERSIAL. IF THERE ARE NO ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS OR THOUGHTS, OR COMMENTS, WE CAN MOVE ON TO THE NEXT OTHER BUSINESS ITEM. [9.B. Roosters – Sec. 86-368 – Rural Residential – Discussion] >> A COUPLE OF MEETINGS AGO, I TOLD YOU THAT THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT WE WERE GOING TO BE ASKED TO DISCUSS [LAUGHTER] THIS IS THE REGULATION OF ROOSTERS IN THE TOWNSHIP. HERE'S THE SITUATION. ROOSTERS ARE ALLOWED BY RIGHT AMONG OTHER AGRICULTURAL ANIMALS IN OUR RURAL RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT. MOST OF OUR PROPERTY OUTSIDE OF OUR URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY IS ZONED RURAL RESIDENTIAL. WE ALSO HAVE SOME RURAL RESIDENTIALLY ZONED PROPERTIES INSIDE THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY AND QUITE CLOSE TO SOME DENSE SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS, [01:00:04] WHICH MEANS WE HAVE PEOPLE IN THE TOWNSHIP WHO ARE KEEPING CHICKENS, WHICH THERE'S A WAY TO DO THAT, BUT THEY'RE ALSO KEEPING ROOSTERS. FROM A ZONING PERSPECTIVE, WE CAN'T TELL THEM NO, OUR TOWNSHIP. YOU SEE THE LANGUAGE THAT THEY'VE PROVIDED ON A POTENTIAL SOLUTION, AND NOW WE'RE BRINGING THIS FORWARD TO YOU, AND WE'D LIKE TO SET A PUBLIC HEARING FOR THIS. IT ESSENTIALLY WOULD SAY YOU CAN BE ZONED RURAL RESIDENTIAL IF YOU WANT, BUT YOU CAN'T HAVE ROOSTERS INSIDE THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY. >> JUST TO TAKE A STAB AT THIS, THE REASON WE DON'T WANT ROOSTERS IS BECAUSE? >> [OVERLAPPING] THEY'RE NOISY. [LAUGHTER] >> CAN WE REGULATE THE TURKEYS ALSO? BECAUSE THEY'RE ALSO VERY NOISY, [LAUGHTER] AND THE GEESE. >> HOW DOES THIS WORK? ARE PEOPLE GRANDFATHERED IN NOW? YOU ENACT THIS AND THEN SUDDENLY THEY HAVE TO GET RID OF THEIR ROOSTERS. HOW DOES THAT WORK? >> WELL, THE WAY THIS WOULD WORK IS THAT IF THEY WOULD SUDDENLY BECOME NUISANCES AND WE COULD DEAL WITH IT. I'D SAY, NO NEW ROOSTERS. >> I TAKE ISSUE WITH THAT, NOT THAT I HAVE ANY PARTICULAR LOVE OF ROOSTERS, BUT I HAVE AN OBJECTION TO WHAT YOU MAY CALL AN EX POST FACTO LAW OR ORDINANCE THAT COMES IN REGULARLY, SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVE DONE FOR A WHILE AND MAY HAVE PURCHASED THE PROPERTY ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT YOU COULD DO. >> IT IS NOT UNCOMMON TO CREATE ORDINANCES TO ADDRESS PERCEIVED OR REAL NUISANCES RETROACTIVELY. >> THE [INAUDIBLE] CAN'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH IT. >> THAT'S FAIR. [LAUGHTER] >> [OVERLAPPING] IT'S ALREADY AN IDENTIFIED NUISANCE BECAUSE IT ALLOWED TO CONTINUE UNFETTERED THEN IT COULD GET WORSE. THEN A YEAR OR TWO FROM NOW, NOT JUST A FEW PEOPLE WHO ARE GRANDFATHERED IN, BUT THE ISSUE COULD MAGNIFY, I GUESS WOULD BE. >> WE CERTAINLY CAN'T SEND OUR ZONING ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OUT TO DEAL WITH THIS BECAUSE WE HAVE NOTHING IN OUR ZONING ORDINANCE, SO LET HIM DEAL WITH THIS. THIS GIVES US MORE AVENUES. >> IS THIS A HIGH NUMBER OF RESIDENCES? [OVERLAPPING] >> I DON'T HAVE A NUMBER OF ROOSTERS IN THE TOWNSHIP OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. >> I JUST WONDER HOW MANY COMPLAINTS ARE COMING IN. THIS IS SO SPECIFIC THING. >> IT'S ENOUGH THAT WE ARE BEING ASKED TO SCHEDULE A PUBLIC HEARING ON THIS. [LAUGHTER] >> I HAVE JUST GENERAL QUESTION ABOUT ANIMALS. WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A ROOSTER CROWING AND A REALLY LOUD DOG BARKING? >> YES. THANK YOU. >> A DOG BARKING WOULD HAVE A NOISE ORDINANCE, THAT WOULD FALL UNDER A NOISE ORDINANCE. WE COULD SEND A CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER TO ISSUE A NUISANCE COMPLAINT, VIOLATION. BUT MY POINT BEING, THOUGH, COMMISSIONER MCCONNELL, IT'S NOT A ZONING ISSUE. THIS MAKES IT A ZONING ISSUE. >> COULD IT BE AN ANIMAL CONTROL ISSUE? >> A WHAT? I'M SORRY? >> ANIMAL CONTROL? >> YOU MEAN COUNTY ANIMAL CONTROL? THAT'S NOT WHERE THIS IS GOING. I'M NOT ASSUMING IN COMMISSIONER BROOKS' EXAMPLE OF A BARKING DOG THAT THE BARKING DOG IS UNTAGGED AND NEEDS TO BE PICKED UP LIKE THE ANIMAL CONTROL AND DESTROYED. THAT'S A LITTLE YUPPIE DOG. >> OR A BIG YUPPIE DOG. >> THAT DOESN'T LIKE UPS TRUCKS OR SOMETHING. >> IN WHAT YOU'VE PROVIDED IN OUR PACKET, I WAS ACTUALLY STRUGGLING WITH THIS AND I READ IT EARLIER. I'M NOT SEEING IT IN A RED LINE VERSION. WHAT IS ACTUALLY IS THAT WHOLE SECTION THAT IS SAYING IT'S BEING AMENDED, BEING ADDED? BECAUSE EVERYTHING ELSE IS UNCHANGED. I DON'T SEE ANY. [OVERLAPPING] >> I CAN PUT THIS INTO RED LINE FORM FOR YOUR NEXT MEETING TO SHOW YOU. >> I DIDN'T GO BACK AND COMPARE. [OVERLAPPING] >> I APOLOGIZE. THIS IS JUST AS PRESENTED TO ME BY THE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. [01:05:04] I CAN MAKE THAT IN RED LINE FORM FOR YOU. >> IT WOULD BE HELPFUL. >> BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THIS PAGE, I WILL SPECIFICALLY CALL OUT, ROOSTERS ARE NOT PERMITTED ON PARCELS WITHIN THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY. THAT IS ADDED LANGUAGE. BUT I I'LL SCRUB THAT AND MAKE THAT READABLE. >> THAT'S THE ONLY CHANGE AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS THE WAY IT IS ALREADY, WE HAD LOTS OF TALK ABOUT THE URBAN SURFACE BOUNDARY WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT THE MASTER PLAN, SO I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT IS. WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT AN ORDINANCE CHANGE LIKE THIS AND WE'RE DOING A PUBLIC HEARING, OBVIOUSLY, YOU'D NOTICE IT IN TOWNSHIP PUBLICATIONS. >> I'LL GO OUT IN LANSING PULSE. THAT IS THE HIGHEST CIRCULATION IN MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP. >> MR. SHORKEY, IF YOU WOULD, I THINK IT'S THE NEXT PAGE, THERE'S A REPEAL CLAUSE, SECTION 4 IN THE THE NEXT DOCUMENT. THIS IS MAYBE ANOTHER PET PEEVE, BUT BE PREPARED. IN THE REPEAL SECTION, ALL ORDINANCES AND PARTS THAT ARE IN CONFLICT HERE WITH ARE HEREBY REPEALED TO THE EXTENT NECESSARY TO GIVE THIS AMENDMENT FULL FORCE AND EFFECT. I UNDERSTAND WHAT THE REPEAL CLAUSE IS INTENDED TO DO, BUT TO ME, IT SHOULD BE MORE PRECISE OF WHICH ORDINANCES THAT ARE POTENTIALLY IN CONFLICT BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE THE BROAD BRUSH OF WHICH MAY CONFLICT. IF THERE'S GOING TO BE A REPEAL CLAUSE IN HERE, IT SHOULD IDENTIFY WHICH SPECIFIC ORDINANCES, IN MY MIND, ARE REPEALED IN CONFLICT. >> I'LL BRING THAT CONCERN UP. >> THANK YOU. >> SURE. >> COMMISSIONER MCCURTIS. >> I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS FOR US. WE DECIDE ON MOVING FORWARD WITH THE AMENDMENT, AND THEN DOES IT GO TO THE BOARD? >> IT DOES. >> DOES IT HAVE TO GO THROUGH A SERIES OF PUBLIC HEARINGS? >> YEAH. YOU WILL HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING, AND THEN YOU'LL COME BACK AT THE END OF JULY AND YOU'LL MAKE A DECISION. THAT WILL BE A RECOMMENDATION THAT WILL BE SENT TO THE TOWNSHIP BOARD, AND THEY HAVE THREE MEETINGS. THEY HAVE A DISCUSSION AND INTRODUCTION AND AN ACTION. THANK YOU. >> I'M SORRY. >> GO AHEAD. >> IN THE ORDINANCE ON PAGE 55, IF YOU SCROLL UP A LITTLE BIT. GO BACK DOWN. >> SORRY. >> RIGHT THERE. SECTION B THERE, PART 2, IS THAT NEW? >> NO, I DON'T THINK IT IS BECAUSE WE DO NOT ALLOW ROOSTERS IN THE RRR, RR, AND RA DISTRICTS. >> THAT WAS PURPOSEFUL FROM THE GET GO. >> WE SAID NO ROOSTERS. IT'S THE FACT THAT IT'S THE RR WITHIN THE BOUNDARY. I KNOW YOU'VE SAID THAT MULTIPLE TIMES. >> THE RR DISTRICT IS INTENDED TO BE AN AGRICULTURAL OPEN SPACE DISTRICT, AND WE HAVE RESIDUAL PARCELS INSIDE THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY THAT ARE ZONED RR NOW THAT WE'VE HAD YEARS OF DEVELOPMENT AND NEXT TO DENSELY DEVELOPED PARCELS. >> I GUESS I WONDER, JUST THE FOLLOW UP TO THAT, IS THE SOLUTION TO MAKE THIS ONE SPECIFIC CHANGE FOR THIS ONE THING, OR IS IT TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S NO RR? >> THIS IS A WAY EASIER PROCESS THAN TRYING TO REZONE ALL THE RR PARCELS INSIDE THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY. I GUESS THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE FAR LESS CONTROVERSIAL. THEY ACHIEVE THE SAME END, BUT STAFF WOULD RATHER DO THIS. >> I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I'M PAUSING. >> DID I HEAR YOU HAD ANOTHER QUESTION? >> I DO. >> I'M PAUSING. [LAUGHTER] [OVERLAPPING] >> TO THE GENTLEMAN IN FRONT. >> IF THERE ARE SOME ISLANDS OF RRS SURROUNDED BY URBAN, [01:10:05] WILL THIS REALLY SOLVE THE PROBLEM AT HAND, MEANING LOUD ROOSTERS AND STUFF LIKE THAT AND PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT IT? I GET WHY YOU'RE DOING IT THIS WAY, BUT IF THERE'S ISLANDS OF RR AGAIN SURROUNDED BY URBAN, [NOISE] YOU'RE STILL GOING TO GET A LOT OF COMPLAINTS FROM PROBABLY THOSE SAME PEOPLE. >> NOT IF THEY GET RID OF THE ROOSTERS. THIS IS SPECIFICALLY TO ADDRESS ROOSTERS. IF THERE ARE OTHER ISSUES WITH RR PARCELS, THAT IS A DIFFERENT DISCUSSION. BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE GETTING COMPLAINTS ABOUT. WE'RE GETTING COMPLAINTS ABOUT ROOSTERS. >> THIS WILL GET RID OF ROOSTERS IN RURAL? >> IN THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY. [OVERLAPPING] >> IN THE URBAN SERVICE? >> YES. >> I GOT IT. >> IT DOESN'T TOUCH ANYBODY OUTSIDE THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY. >> THAT'S HELPFUL. THANK YOU. THAT CLEARS IT OUT. >> TO SHOW YOU, I'LL GO BACK TO THE PARCEL VIEWER, I CAN TURN ON THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY. THE TOWNSHIP BOUNDARY IS ON. HERE'S THE TOWNSHIP LINE HERE, AND ALL OF THIS IS OUTSIDE OF THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY. UP HERE, ALL OF THIS IS OUTSIDE OF THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY. IF I TURN ON THE ZONING AND I ZOOM IN, YOU CAN SEE RR PARCELS INSIDE THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY, RR. I WOULD SUBMIT TO YOU THAT THESE ARE NOT AGRICULTURAL PARCELS, THAT THOSE ARE SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL PARCELS. I DON'T THINK THE INTENT OF THE ORDINANCE WAS TO ALLOW EVERYBODY HERE ONE HULETT ROAD TO HAVE ROOSTERS. THAT'S WHY THE DISTINCTION WAS SPECIFICALLY MADE THAT THEY'RE IN THE RR DISTRICT. >> NOW A LOT IN MY MIND. >> ME TOO. ARE YOU SITTING THERE, WONDERING WHY THAT'S ZONED LIKE THIS? >> NO. >> NO? BECAUSE I AM. >> I'M ASKING MYSELF THE QUESTION OF WHY DID SOMEBODY DRAW AN URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY THAT LEFT THIS LITTLE NUGGET BEHIND FOR US TO DEAL WITH, IS WHAT I'M WONDERING. THAT WILL COME UP AT THE TOWNSHIP BOARD, NO DOUBT. >> PRECISELY. >> ARE THE HEWLETT ROAD PROPERTIES THERE? >> HULETT. >> THAT'S HULETT. >> [OVERLAPPING] HULETT. THANK YOU. THOSE ARE ALL FAIRLY CLOSE TOGETHER. I'M ASSUMING THOSE EITHER HAVE A VARIANCE ON THEM ALL. >> NO. >> IT'S WEIRD THAT THEY WERE ZONED THAT WAY, IN MY OPINION. [LAUGHTER] >> IS THERE A MINIMUM LOT SIZE TO KEEP CHICKENS AT ALL? >> THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE FOR WHAT? I'M SORRY. >> TO KEEP CHICKENS AT ALL? >> NO. NOT CHICKENS PER SE. RR DISTRICT HAS A MINIMUM LOT SIZE OF 40,000 SQUARE FEET. DON'T GET CAUGHT UP ON THE SHAPE OF THE LOTS. WE HAVE A LOT OF LOTS LIKE THIS IN THE TOWNSHIP. >> I KNOW. [LAUGHTER] >> BUT THOSE HOUSES ARE VERY CLOSE TOGETHER. >> [OVERLAPPING] MY INITIAL POINT WAS TO SHOW YOU WHERE THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY. >> COULD YOU SHOW IT TO US IN GOOGLE MAPS, PUT SOME IMAGING BEHIND IT? >> IS THAT THE YMCA? >> YEAH. >> THEY WON'T HAVE THE PARCELS ON IT. >> THAT'S WIDE. >> IT IS. BECAUSE YOU'D FIGURE YMCA HAS GOT TO BE TAX-EXEMPT, SO GOING TO FIND SOMETHING ELSE. >> LET'S SEE HERE. >> RR APPLIED TO ALL THOSE. >> THAT'S PATRIARCHE PARK. THERE'S THE LAKE. THIS IS OUTSIDE THE URBAN SERVICE AREA-ISH. >> THOSE LOTS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, ALL THE ADDITIONAL LOTS. >> I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. THERE'S THE YMCA AND THERE'S THOSE LOTS. >> SO THE HOUSES ARE RIGHT UP. [OVERLAPPING] >> CAN YOU ZOOM A LITTLE MORE, OR IS IT NOT POSSIBLE? >> CAN YOU ZOOM IN? >> YEAH. >> SUBDIVISIONS, EVERGREEN. >> NICE. >> WOW. >> IS THAT CLOSE ENOUGH? >> MAN, IN THAT PARTICULAR INSTANCE, I WOULD THINK ROOSTERS WITHIN DISTANCE OF A HOUSE. IF IT'S AT THE BACK OF YOUR LOT AND A BUNCH OF TREES, THAT'S ONE THING. [01:15:03] IF IT'S NEXT TO THE HOUSE, OUT OF MY BEDROOM WINDOW, THAT'S ALL DIFFERENT KETTLE OF FISH. [LAUGHTER]. >> THERE IS SOME WISDOM IN SAYING THAT'S LIKE, IS THERE JUST A GENERAL NOISY ANIMAL ORDINANCE? I HATE TO TARGET ROOSTERS. >> WE ARE NOT GETTING COMPLAINTS ABOUT OTHER NOISY ANIMALS. >> I CAN START. MY NEIGHBORS HAVE A LOUD DOG. >> I KNOW. >> THERE'S ORDINANCE FOR DOGS. >> THIS IS AN ORDINANCE TO A SPECIFIC ISSUE WHICH, AGAIN, IS NOT THAT UNORDINARY. >> THERE WAS AN ISSUE WHEN I WAS ON THE PLANE BOARD IN LANSING THAT PEOPLE WERE STARTING TO GET ROOSTERS IN THE CITY, AND THAT WAS PROBLEMATIC, SO IT'S NOT UNIQUE, FOR SURE. >> HOW WAS IT ADDRESSED? >> I CAN'T REMEMBER. IT'S COMPLICATED BECAUSE THERE ARE STATE LAWS AROUND URBAN FARMING AND [INAUDIBLE] AND CAN'T DO. I'M SURE THIS WAS VERY CAREFULLY CRAFTED TO FIT WITHIN ALL OF THOSE REQUIREMENTS. >> LIKE I SAID, THIS DID COME FROM OUR ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. >> IF WE HAVE PUBLIC TOWNSHIP RECORDS OF ANYONE WHO HAS NOTIFIED THE TOWNSHIP THAT THEY ARE KEEPING CHICKENS IN THE TOWNSHIP, OR THAT'S THE PROCESS. >> WELL, IF IT'S AN OFFICIAL GOING THROUGH AND NOT JUST CALLING THE DIRECTOR'S OFFICE. [LAUGHTER] >> OR GETTING A PHONE CALL, OR FOR THAT MATTER, THE PRINCIPAL PLANNER'S OFFICE. [LAUGHTER] BUT THERE IS AN OFFICIAL PROCESS WHERE, IF THEY'RE GOING ON THE WEBSITE, THEY CAN DO AN OFFICIAL COMPLAINT. YES. >> PERMISSION. MY UNDERSTANDING WAS IF I WANT TO KEEP CHICKENS, I'M SUPPOSED TO NOTIFY. >> THE OTHER DIRECTION, [OVERLAPPING] IF YOU'RE ZONE RA AND YOU WANT TO HAVE FOUR NON-ROOSTER CHICKENS, THERE IS A PROCESS FOR THAT, AND THAT IS CONTACTING THE DIRECTOR OF PLANNING DEVELOPMENT, WHICH IS DIRECTOR SCHMIDT, AND LETTING HIM KNOW YOU WANT TO DO THAT AND GETTING HIS PERMISSION TO DO IT. >> HE PROBABLY WRITES IT DOWN. >> YEAH. SORRY ABOUT THAT. I MISUNDERSTOOD THE QUESTION. >> IT'S POORLY FRAMED, APOLOGY. >> THIS IS MY GUT INTUITION. THIS JUST SEEMS LIKE A BALLOT BOX ISSUE. IF THERE'S AT SOME POINT, IT CAN JUST BE ADDED TO A VOTE. >> NO. NOT A ZONING QUESTION. THIS IS A ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT. THAT'S NOT A VOTE. [OVERLAPPING] I GET WHERE YOU'RE GOING PHILOSOPHICALLY WITH THIS. >> THE PROPER WAY TO CHANGE POLICY WITHIN A GIVEN GOVERNMENTAL STRUCTURE IS THAT THE BALLOT BOX, IF YOU CAN. THAT'S JUST WHERE PERHAPS I'M GETTING CAUGHT UP HERE, BUT THAT'S JUST ME BEING ME. >> IF WE WENT DOWN A PATH LIKE THIS AND THEN LATER ON CHANGE THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY TO INCLUDE THESE RR AREAS, WHAT WOULD BE THE EFFECT OF THAT? >> YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY TO INCLUDE THESE RR AREAS. THIS IS YOUR URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BRING THE BOUNDARY BACK LIKE THIS. >> NO. MY ASSUMPTION THOUGH WAS THAT THEY WERE OUT. >> THEY ARE NOT OUT, THEY ARE IN. [OVERLAPPING] THAT'S WHY I'M SPECIFICALLY [INAUDIBLE] THEM OUT. >> I KEEP MISSING THAT. SORRY. >> IF WE WERE TO EXTEND THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY AND INCORPORATE RR THAT MAYBE HAD ROOSTERS, BUT THAT WOULD BE A CHANGE TO THOSE PEOPLE'S ABILITY TO KEEP ROOSTERS IF WE EVER EXPANDED THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY, NOT CONTRACTED, BUT EXPANDED IT. >> HYPOTHETICALLY, YES, YOU'RE RIGHT, IT WOULD. >> [OVERLAPPING] WE HAD THAT CONVERSATION DURING MASTER PLAN AND I DON'T THINK WE HAD ANY APPETITE TO RECOMMEND THAT. IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'VE ALL GOT A LOT OF QUESTIONS AND WANT MORE CONVERSATION, AND IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'VE BEEN GIVEN AT LEAST SOME DIRECTION TO BRING THIS FORWARD. >> THIS IS CORRECT. >> IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE PROBABLY GOING TO HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING ON IT. >> I WILL BRING THIS BACK FOR DISCUSSION AT YOUR NEXT MEETING. I WILL HAVE A RED LINE VERSION SO YOU COULD SEE EXACTLY WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED TO BE CHANGED IN HERE. I DON'T THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S VERY MUCH BEING CHANGED. IT'S JUST ADDRESSING THE ISSUE. >> IMPLICATIONS OF WHO IS GOING TO GET CHANGED? >> CORRECT. >> ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS JUST TO KIND OF WRAP THIS UP? ANY OTHER QUESTIONS THAT YOU'D LIKE MR. SHORKEY TO COME PREPARED TO [01:20:01] ANSWER THE NEXT TIME THAT WE DISCUSS THIS? MR. MCCONNELL. >> WE RECENTLY HAD DISCUSSION, I THINK WE CALL THEM ADMINISTRATIVE CHANGES TO THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY, AND I THINK IT'S USEFUL TO REFLECT ON THAT AS WE LOOK AT THIS. >> WHAT DO YOU MEAN ADMINISTRATIVE CHANGES TO THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY? >> PARCELS THAT WERE INSIDE THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN OUTSIDE. >> YOU HAD DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY DURING YOUR MASTER PLAN UPDATE, AND YOU MADE A SERIES OF CHANGES, MOST OF WHICH WERE AROUND COPPER CREEK. THE NEXT PHASE OF COPPER CREEK WAS BROUGHT IN. >> IF WE COULD GET A REFRESHER ON THAT, THAT WOULD BE SUPER HELPFUL, JUST TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE TOTALLY DIFFERENT PLACES, THE RESPONSE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE. >> YOU HAD ME MAIL TWO PARCELS ON THE NORTHEAST CORNER TO ASK IF THEY WANTED TO BE IN AND OUT. I GOT RESPONSES ON BOTH OF THOSE AND JUST THE BOUNDARY, BUT IF YOU WANT A REVIEW OF THE CHANGES OF THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY. >> THANK YOU. >> THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR? >> YES, PLEASE. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR THINGS THAT YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT MR. SHORKEY HELPS US UNDERSTAND BETTER AT OUR NEXT MEETING? >> I'M INSATIABLY CURIOUS AS TO WHY IT'S ZONED LIKE THAT. [OVERLAPPING] I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO KNOW. >> I THINK WE'LL FIND THE PURPOSE ON THE TOWNSHIP BOARD. >> I DON'T UNDERSTAND. >> A BIG BIGGER QUESTION FOR ANOTHER TIME. >> THANK YOU. >> GREAT. THANK YOU. THEN I GUESS WE HAVE SAID ALL WE CAN SAY ON THIS TOPIC FOR TONIGHT. THANK YOU. NEXT HERE, [10.A. Township Board update] REPORTS AND ANNOUNCEMENTS, ITEM 10A, TOWNSHIP BOARD UPDATE. >> THE PARKING ORDINANCE UPDATE WITH THE CHANGE IN THE UPDATES AND THE PARKING NUMBERS, THAT'S MOVING THROUGH PROCESS. IT'S BEEN THROUGH DISCUSSION, HAS BEEN THROUGH INTRODUCTION AT THE BOARD. I DON'T THINK IT'S BEEN FINALLY APPROVED YET. I'LL HAVE TO VERIFY THAT. I'M SORRY. I WAS GONE LAST WEEK, SO I'M STILL PLAYING CATCH-UP A LITTLE BIT. THE OTHER UPDATE I'LL MAKE, AND THIS ISN'T SO MUCH A BOARD UPDATE, BUT WASN'T JOKING EARLIER, WE HAVE HIRED A NEW INTERN IN THE OFFICE. HER NAME IS [INAUDIBLE]. SHE'LL BE HERE UNTIL THE END OF AUGUST, AND WHEN I GET SOMETHING I CAN THROW AT HER TO WORK ON, I'LL HAVE HER COME BEFORE YOU AND FORMALLY INTRODUCE HERSELF THEN. >> THANK YOU. >> DOES SHE HAVE AN INTEREST IN ROOSTERS? [LAUGHTER] >> SHE PLAYS LACROSSE. >> THAT'S A SOLUTION. >> LIAISON REPORTS, ANYBODY HAVE ANYTHING TO SHARE FROM THE BOARD OR COMMISSION THAT YOU REPRESENT US ON? WE ARE DOWN TO PROJECT UPDATES. I DIDN'T SEE A LIST. ANYTHING TO SHARE? >> I DON'T HAVE AN UPDATE FOR YOU RIGHT NOW. >> THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE, MR. CARTER. [12. PUBLIC REMARKS] WE ARE NOW BACK TO PUBLIC COMMENT AGAIN, SO YOU CAN JUST REINTRODUCE YOURSELF BRIEFLY. YOU'VE GOT THREE MINUTES TO SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS WITH US. THANK YOU. >> JAMES CARTER, 2296 HULETT ROAD. THE GENTLEMAN IN THE RED SHIRT HAD SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT TRUCKS. BELIEVE ME, ANY TRUCK THAT CAN GO DOWN OKEMOS ROAD CAN GO DOWN HULETT ROAD DESPITE THEIR TURNAROUND. I'VE SEEN SEMI TRAILERS, CAR HAULERS, CEMENT MIXERS, YOU NAME IT, THEY CAN GO AROUND THAT CIRCLE, SO YOU'LL CONSTANTLY GET THE BACK AND FORTH. THE OTHER THING, AS FAR AS THE COUNTY POLICING THAT, THERE'S ONE, I BELIEVE SHE'S CALLED A ROAD ENFORCEMENT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, ONE PERSON FOR THE ENTIRE COUNTY. THEN THE POLICE IN MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP POLICE IT, BUT IT'S IMPOSSIBLE. THEY CAN'T BE THERE ALL THE TIME. I'VE GOT A HOME OFFICE, SO I SEE THIS STUFF EVERYDAY GOING UP AND DOWN. SOME OF THEM ARE PRETTY CAVALIER, THEY DON'T CARE. UNLESS YOU GET YOUR ARMS AROUND IT, IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN WHEN THE CONSTRUCTION STARTS DOWN THERE BY JOLLY ROAD. SO JUST SOME COMMENTS. >> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU FOR COMING. >> THANK YOU. >> APPRECIATE IT. WE ARE TO ITEM 13, COMMISSIONER COMMENTS. [13. COMMISSIONER COMMENTS] YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO SHARE? >> TIDBIT FROM OUR EARLIER CONVERSATION. THERE HAVE BEEN SOME DOG BARKING COMPLAINTS THAT HAVE COME TO THE ATTENTION OF ME THROUGH MY NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION, [01:25:03] AND INFORMATION I'M HEARING IS THAT THE TOWNSHIP IS NOW RESPONDING TO THOSE COMPLAINTS WITH A UNIFORMED OFFICER OR A SWORN OFFICER. IT'S NOT THE CODE ENFORCEMENT, BUT THIS IS ANECDOTAL FROM A COUPLE OF LOCAL REPORTS, AND I'M CURIOUS HOW THAT'S WORKING AND WHAT THE APPROACH IS, PERSONALLY. >> THANK YOU. >> I ALSO THINK IT'S USEFUL GENERALLY TO HEAR MORE ABOUT CODE ENFORCEMENT IN THE TOWNSHIP AS THE PLANNING COMMISSION. WE'VE ASKED SOMETIMES FOR UPDATES ON THAT, AND I THINK THAT FOR ME, I ALWAYS FIND VERY USEFUL. IT CHANGES SEASONALLY, THE [INAUDIBLE] >> YES, TREE BRANCHES OVER SIDEWALKS. >> BUT I THINK IT'S PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD TO GENERATE AN ANNUAL REPORT, SO THAT'S USEFUL. >> THANK YOU FOR THAT REMINDER ABOUT HOW WE HAD BEEN GETTING REPORTS ON THAT IN THE PAST. THAT WAS HELPFUL INFORMATION. >> HAVE WE GOT THOSE ANNUALLY PREVIOUSLY? >> IT WASN'T A MONTHLY THING, I DON'T THINK. >> I DON'T REMEMBER. I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS UPON REQUEST OR IF IT WAS AT A FREQUENCY, BUT I THINK THAT IS HELPFUL TO KNOW, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'RE BEING ASKED TO GENERATE TOPIC, KNOWING WHAT'S THERE. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT STAFF COULD DO. >> YOU WANT TO SEE THAT? >> WHAT YOU'RE SEEING OR SEASONALLY, THAT'D BE A GOOD INTERN PROJECT. [LAUGHTER] >> [OVERLAPPING] CATEGORIZE ALL THE COMPLAINTS. [LAUGHTER] >> THAT WILL BE PRETTY INTERESTING THOUGH. >> JUST SOMETHING THAT SAYS, HERE'S WHAT WE'RE HEARING OR HERE'S WHAT WE'RE NOT HEARING, OR HERE'S WHAT WE USED TO HEAR, HERE'S WHAT WE'RE HEARING NOW THING, AND THEN THOUGHTS AND A CYCLE FOR SHARING THAT THING THAT ISN'T OVERWHELMING TO YOU AND YOUR TEAM. >> YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE A SPREADSHEET. YOU WANT TO SEE A PAGE OR TWO REPORT SUMMARIZING, HERE'S WHAT WE'RE SEEING. >> I THINK SO. I DON'T THINK WE NEED THE QUANTIFIED DATA. IT'S MORE WHAT ARE YOU SEE. >> WHAT ARE THE TRENDS? >> THE KINDS OF INSIGHTS THAT YOU SHARE WITH US ON A LOT OF THINGS, GENERALLY, I THINK THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL WOULD BE ALL RIGHT. >> LET US WORK ON IT. I'M NOT GOING TO PROMISE YOU A DATE, BUT LET US WORK ON IT. I'LL GET THAT TO YOU IN THE FUTURE. >> THANK YOU. THEN IF WE HAVE A MEETING WHERE THERE'S TIME, WE'RE NOT OVERBOOKED WITH AGENDA ITEMS, THAT WOULD BE FUNDED FUN TO HEAR MORE ABOUT. ANYTHING ELSE? >> I HAVE THREE THINGS. ONE IS OUR PUBLIC COMMENTS, OR NOT PUBLIC COMMENTS HERE, BUT OUR CODE COMPLAINTS, ARE THOSE PUBLIC RECORD? DO THOSE BECOME PUBLIC RECORD? >> YOU MEAN SOMEBODY, SPECIFICALLY? >> IF SOMEBODY SENDS SOMETHING TO THE TOWNSHIP AND SAYS, I DON'T LIKE THE FACT THAT THIS BRANCH IS HANGING OVER THE SIDEWALK AT THIS ADDRESS, IS THAT PUBLIC RECORD? >> I'M GOING TO GIVE A CONDITIONAL YES, BUT I THINK IT DEPENDS ON HOW THAT COMPLAINT WAS RECEIVED, ONLY LOOKING TO THAT IF YOU WANT SOMETHING MORE SPECIFIC. >> I DO. I'M CURIOUS ABOUT THAT BECAUSE I'M WONDERING, I'M JUST GOING OUT ON A SMALL LIMB HERE. >> I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE. [LAUGHTER] >> BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT A LOT OF THE CHATGPT, LARGE LANGUAGE MODELS ARE GOOD AT ARE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT TEXT DOCUMENTS AND THEN FINDING THEMES IN THEM. WE COULD POTENTIALLY DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE PUBLIC RECORD OR IF THEY'RE PUBLICLY AVAILABLE AND ACCESSIBLE AND PROBABLY GATHERED ALREADY BY SOMETHING LIKE THIS. I'M NOT RECOMMENDING THAT WE PUT ALL OF THAT INFORMATION. >> THE REASON I'M HEDGING IS I DON'T KNOW HOW OUR CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER LOGS THAT. I DON'T KNOW IF EVERYTHING IS GOING INTO A SYSTEM OR EVERYTHING THAT RISES TO A CERTAIN LEVEL GOES INTO THE SYSTEM. DO YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN? >> YEAH. I THINK THAT GOES IN THIS, AND I'M ALSO THINKING ABOUT HOW TO MAKE IT EASIER. THAT'S ITEM NUMBER 1. THE SECOND ONE, I CAN'T FIND THE PAGE OF THIS NOW. THERE WE GO. ON PAGE 51, PATRICIA HERRING JACKSON'S MISSION AS TOWNSHIP SUPERVISOR. >> THAT WAS AN OLD. LIKE I SAID, THAT WOULD ALL BE UPDATED FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING. >> THEN MY LAST COMMENT IS I FEEL LIKE WE'VE HAD TWO ITEMS THE PAST FEW MONTHS WHERE SOMETHING WAS APPROVED IN 2022-ISH AND THEN IT LAPSED, [01:30:07] AND THEN WE'VE RE-SEEN IT. I DON'T REMEMBER IF THAT HAPPENED FREQUENTLY PREVIOUSLY. >> WHAT WAS THE OTHER? >> I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS. IT HAPPENED IN THE PAST, A FEW MONTHS. WE HAD ONE THAT CAME BACK. >> IT WASN'T THE PANDA EXPRESS? >> NO. THERE WAS SOMETHING ELSE THAT CAME FROM AN EXTENSION, I THOUGHT. >> IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN A CAR WASH. >> THE CAR WASH, THERE'S A [OVERLAPPING] NEW APPLICANT. >> IT WASN'T YOUR SUP HAD EXPIRED, IT'S THAT IT GOT SOLD AND THEY MADE CHANGES, SO I HAD TO REAPPLY, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE THINKING. >> THAT'S RIGHT. IT DIDN'T EXPIRE, BUT IT WENT UP TO THE VERY LAST MOMENT. I JUST THOUGHT TWO DOESN'T MAKE A PATTERN, BUT I WAS LIKE, SOMETHING HAPPENING. >> POST-COVID REBOUND, RELAPSE. >> IF THERE WERE OTHER THINGS LIKE THIS THAT ARE SITTING OUT THERE OR THAT WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT IN THE FUTURE, JUST THROW THAT OUT THERE. >> STAFF PERIODICALLY LOOKS AT PAST CASES. WE'LL LOOK AT 2023, 2024 CASES. HEY, WHAT'S GOING ON? HOW ARE THEY AT. DON'T DO IT SYSTEMATICALLY. WE DO IT IN A YEARLY CYCLE. BEGINNING OF THE YEAR, IT'S A NEW YEAR, WHAT'S GOING ON? >> THANK YOU. >> THANKS. ANY OTHER COMMENTS? I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ADJOURN. >> I MOVE TO ADJOURN. >> SECOND. >> SECOND BY COMMISSIONER BROOKS. ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. >> AYE. >> ANY OPPOSED? WE ARE ADJOURNED AT 8:01. * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.