[1. CALL MEETING TO ORDER]
[00:02:28]
06:32. FIRST THING ON THE AGENDA IS CALLING THE ROLL.
COMMISSIONER BROOKS. PRESENT. COMMISSIONER MCCONNELL.
HERE. MR. MCCURTIS. HERE. MR. SNYDER. HERE. AND COMMISSIONER SHREWSBURY CHAIR IS HERE.
WE WILL NOTE IF COMMISSIONER ROMBACK COMES LATER.
BUT IF THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE ON THE AGENDA YOU'D LIKE TO SPEAK TO, THIS WOULD BE THE TIME TO DO IT. THERE WILL ALSO BE ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY AT THE END OF THE MEETING. AND WE DO HAVE ONE PUBLIC HEARING ON A SPECIAL USE PERMIT THAT WILL ALSO OFFER OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK SPECIFICALLY TO THAT.
IS THERE ANYONE HERE WHO WOULD LIKE TO GIVE PUBLIC REMARKS NOW? OKAY. MOVE TO APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA. I MOVE TO APPROVE THE AGENDA.
[4. APPROVAL OF AGENDA]
NO. WE HAVE A MOTION BY COMMISSIONER MCCONNELL AND A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER MCCURTIS TO APPROVE THE AGENDA.ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.
[5. APPROVAL OF MINUTES ]
2025 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE? SO MOVED. THANK YOU. SECOND. OKAY. MOVED BY COMMISSIONER BROOKS.SECOND. BY COMMISSIONER ROMBACK. ANY DISCUSSION ON THE MINUTES? WHO WAS THE SECOND? THERE WERE A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT CAUGHT MY EYE.
THE MOST SUBSTANTIVE WAS ITEM 7 B. ACTUALLY, 7A FIRST. CHAIR SHREWSBURY CLOSED THE PUBLIC OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 6:41 AND CLOSED IT AT 06: 421. OKAY. I CAUGHT THAT TOO. AND IT ACTUALLY WAS OPENED CLOSER TO 6:33 AND THEN CLOSED AT 06:42.
I WENT BACK AND WATCHED THE VIDEO BECAUSE I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE THAT OUT.
[INAUDIBLE]. ONE 6:33 AND 6:34 THEN. NO, IT WAS ACTUALLY 6:33 AND 6:42, I THINK.
OH IT WAS. YEAH. SO I THINK THE FIRST TIME WAS INCORRECT, WHICH I ACCEPTED.
THEN THE SECOND ONE I WENT AND LOOKED BECAUSE I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS RIGHT.
[00:05:12]
I THINK THAT JUST GOT COPIED AND PASTED OR SOMETHING.THAT IS CORRECT. SUPPORT THE AMENDMENT. THAT'S ALL I SAW.
OKAY. I COULDN'T REMEMBER AND I DID NOT HAVE TIME TO GO BACK AND DIG ANY FURTHER.
BUT I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S APPROPRIATE TO JUST ACKNOWLEDGE DISCUSSION THAT WOULD SORT OF ACCOUNT FOR THE TIME BETWEEN. AT FIRST I WAS THINKING, OH, WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT OR WHY DID WE HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING THAT TOOK SIX MINUTES LONG WHEN WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS? BUT SO IF THERE'S NOT ANYBODY WHO SPOKE, IS IT APPROPRIATE TO PUT IN BETWEEN THOSE TWO COMMISSIONERS DISCUSSED OR ASKED QUESTIONS.
YEAH, I CAN I CAN PUT A GENERAL STATEMENT, YOU KNOW.
OKAY. PLANNING STAFF DISCUSSED THE APPLICATION WITH WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
BECAUSE I, I THINK THAT'S UP ABOVE. SO MAYBE IT'S JUST THAT THE OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING GOES AT THE TOP OF THAT SECTION AND THE CLOSED, THE PUBLIC HEARING GOES AT THE BOTTOM. AND THEN THE DESCRIPTION OF YOU GAVE AN OVERVIEW AND WE ASKED FOR CLARITY WOULD GO IN BETWEEN OKAY. I'LL GO BACK AND WATCH THE VIDEO AND I'LL PUT THAT IN SEQUENTIAL ORDER.
I APOLOGIZE IF THIS IS THE WORST PROBLEM WE HAVE WE'RE DOING ALRIGHT I THINK.
EXCELLENT. THANK YOU. ANYTHING ELSE ON THE MINUTES THAT ANYONE ELSE NOTICED? IF WE'RE MAKING COMMENTS ABOUT THE MINUTES, I JUST REALIZED AFTER I SECONDED THE MOTION, THAT I WASN'T HERE AT THE MEETING, SO I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN ACTUALLY SECOND IT. THAT'S WHY I DIDN'T SECOND IT.
BUT I JUST WANT TO STATE THAT OKAY, WELL, NOW WE KNOW. CAN I VOTE FOR IT TOO THEN.
KNOCK YOURSELF OUT. LIVING FAST AND LOOSE. I SUPPOSE.
IT'S JUST SHOWS YOUR TRUST IN THE REST OF YOUR FELLOW COMMISSIONERS. IN THEORY, MR. BROOKS, YOU DID GO HOME AND WATCH THE VIDEO, RIGHT? YEAH, YEAH. OKAY. SO. ALL RIGHT, SO YOU SHOULD BE FAMILIAR WITH THE MINUTES.
YOU ARE TOTALLY CORRECT ABOUT THAT. SO WITH THOSE MINOR SUGGESTED AMENDMENTS EVERYONE IN FAVOR OF THE MINUTES, AS AMENDED? YES. YES. ANY OPPOSED? OKAY. THE MINUTES ARE APPROVED AS AS AMENDED.
OKAY. NOW WE ARE ON TO ITEM 6 COMMUNICATIONS.
AND I SEE THAT WE HAD SEVERAL IN OUR POCKET. YEAH.
[6. COMMUNICATIONS]
OOPS. ASSUMING EVERYONE HAD OPPORTUNITY. DID WE GET ANY OTHERS? WE DID NOT. OKAY. THEN WE CAN MOVE ON TO ITEM 7.[7.A. SUP #25007 – Mister Car Wash Major SUP Amendment]
PUBLIC HEARINGS. WE HAVE ONE PUBLIC HEARING ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT FOR SPECIAL USE PERMIT NUMBER 25007 MISTER CARWASH MAJOR SPECIAL USE PERMIT AMENDMENT. OKAY. AND I WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 06:36. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO SOME OF YOU PROBABLY REMEMBER THAT YOU SAW A SIMILAR SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR A CAR WASH ON THIS SITE.THIS IS A NEW APPLICANT. TYPICALLY WE HAVE A LITTLE SPIEL ABOUT HOW PUBLIC HEARINGS WORK.
YES. THANK YOU. SO FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE, THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR A CAR WASH ON THE OUTBACK SITE 4 880 MARSH ROAD. THE PLANNING COMMISSION WILL DISCUSS THIS TONIGHT.
AT THE END OF THE DISCUSSION, YOU WILL SEE WHAT THEY CALL A STRAW POLL.
THAT IS A NON-BINDING VOTE THAT GIVES US AS STAFF AN INDICATION OF HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT THIS, BECAUSE AT THE NEXT MEETING, WE HAVE TO BRING A RESOLUTION FOR THEM TO ACTUALLY VOTE ON.
SO WHAT YOU SEE TONIGHT IS NOT THE ACTUAL APPROVAL.
THIS WILL COME BACK IN TWO WEEKS WITH A RESOLUTION EITHER TO EITHER TO APPROVE OR DENY.
THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS THE APPROVING BODY IN THIS CASE, SO THAT THAT WILL BE THE DECISION.
ONCE THAT DECISION IS MADE, IF THIS IS APPROVED, IT GOES TO SITE PLAN.
THAT IS AN ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS AND WE'LL CONTACT YOU FOR FURTHER INFORMATION. THANK YOU.
YOU'RE WELCOME. SO THIS IS AN AMENDMENT TO A FORMER SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO CONSTRUCT A 4887 SQUARE FOOT DRIVE THROUGH CAR WASH WITH 24 VACUUM STATIONS AT 4880 MARSH ROAD.
THE PARCEL IS 2.92 ACRES IN SIZE AND ZONED C3, WHICH IS OUR MOST INTENSE COMMERCIAL DISTRICT.
[00:10:10]
2023. SO A LITTLE A LITTLE OVER TWO YEARS AGO.THE APPLICANT DOES INTEND TO DEMOLISH THE EXISTING 9542 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING CURRENTLY ON SITE.
VERY QUICKLY BREEZING THROUGH. IT IS PART OF THE COMMERCIAL CORE CATEGORY IN THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP, IT IS ZONED C3. THE FUTURE LAND USE AND THE ZONING ARE IN CONCURRENCE WITH THIS REQUEST.
2.92 ACRE SITE IS L-SHAPED AT THE CORNER OF MARSH AND NEWMAN ROAD.
CURRENTLY DEVELOPED WITH A CLOSED OUTBACK OUTBACK RESTAURANT.
[INAUDIBLE]. STREETS AND TRAFFIC AS NOTED ON MARSH ROAD NORTH OF NEWMAN.
ACCESS TO THE SITE IS PROVIDED ON MARSH AND NEWMAN.
THERE IS A SEVEN FOOT WIDE PATHWAY ON MARSH ROAD AND NEWMAN ROAD.
M ARSH HAS FOUR LANES AND FOUR LANES OF TRAFFIC, AND A CENTER TURN LANE WITH CURB AND GUTTER INSTALLED, AND IS A PRINCIPAL ARTERIAL. THE APPLICANT DID SUBMIT A TRIP GENERATION ANALYSIS.
I WILL SCROLL DOWN SO YOU CAN SEE THE NUMBERS I'M LOOKING AT.
TRAFFIC ASSESSMENT IS REQUIRED FOR NEW SPECIAL USES, WHICH CAN GENERATE BETWEEN 50 AND 200 AND 249 DIRECTIONAL TRIPS DURING MORNING AND PEAK AFTERNOON PEAK HOURS OF TRAFFIC THAT IS DIRECTLY FROM THE ORDINANCE.
TRAFFIC STUDY IS REQUIRED. IT BECOMES A TRAFFIC STUDY IF IT GOES, IF IT GOES 250 OR OVER.
MISTER CAR WASH IS REPRESENTED AS IS THEIR ENGINEER.
SO IF YOU HAVE FURTHER QUESTIONS ON THAT, I WILL TURN IT OVER TO THEM.
WE DO LOOK AT SPECIAL USE PERMITS UNDER THE CRITERIA IN SECTION 86-126, IN THE CODE OF ORDINANCES.
IT IS, THIS PROJECT IS CONSISTENT WITH THE INTENTS AND PURPOSES OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
IT THE PROPOSAL MEETS LAND USE POLICIES IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
SPECIFICALLY, THIS IS THOUGHT OF LOOKED AS LOOKED AT AS AN INFILL DEVELOPMENT.
THE PROPOSED CAR WASH IS NOT EXPECTED TO AFFECT ADVERSELY AFFECT SURROUNDING USES.
IT IS A MAIN COMMERCIAL CORRIDOR. THERE ARE OTHER COMMERCIAL STRUCTURES.
THE BUILDING IS IS PROPOSED TO BE SIMILAR TO SURROUNDING BUILDINGS, NOT EXPECTED TO BE ECONOMIC OR DETRIMENTAL TO THE ECONOMIC WELFARE OF SURROUNDING PROPERTIES. IT IS ADEQUATELY SERVED BY ROADS, UTILITIES AND OTHER SUCH SERVICES.
PUBLIC SANITATION SERVICE FACILITIES ARE ADEQUATE.
I'M SCROLLING ALONG AND THE PROJECT THE ZONING ORDINANCE STATES NO NOISE EXCEEDING SEVEN DECIBELS SHALL BE EMITTED AS MEASURED FROM A PROPERTY LINE, AND THE APPLICANT WILL BE REQUIRED TO DEMONSTRATE THAT.
STAFF'S EXPERIENCE SIMILAR USES INDICATES THAT THE SITE SHOULDN'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH THAT.
THE FIRST CRITERIA DOESN'T APPLY. IT IS A DRIVE THROUGH CAR WASH.
THIS SHOULD BE CONFIRMED GOING FORWARD, BUT THAT HASN'T BEEN INDICATED IN ANY OF THE APPLICATION MATERIAL WE HAVE SO FAR, WHICH YOU HAVE IN YOUR PACKET. AND AGAIN, THERE ARE NO RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES NEARBY.
AND THE CAR WASH IS NOT GOING TO IS NOT EXPECTED TO NEGATIVELY IMPACT SURROUNDING COMMERCIAL USES.
FRANKLY, THIS IS A VERY, VERY SIMILAR PROPOSAL TO ONE THAT WAS APPROVED A LITTLE OVER TWO YEARS AGO.
[00:15:05]
AND I CAN ANSWER QUESTIONS. I CAN TURN IT OVER TO THE APPLICANT AND OR THEIR ENGINEER.THANK YOU. DOES ANYONE HAVE QUESTIONS FOR MR. SHORKEY? YEAH. COULD YOU SCROLL BACK TO THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP FOR A SECOND? I CAN. AND I'M SORRY THAT'S NOT THE ONE IT WAS UP ABOVE THAT. YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT ONE IN THE KEEP GOING, KEEP GOING FURTHER UP.
I'M AT THE BEGINNING OF THE. I'LL GET YOU TO THE RIGHT ONE IN JUST A SECOND.
HERE. SORRY. OKAY. THERE'S ONE THAT SHOWS THE PARCEL BOUNDARIES.
YOU'RE. THE ZONING. THIS? NO IT'S PINK WITH DASHED LINES.
IT'S OH, IT'S IN THEIRS, I THINK. YES. I'M SORRY.
PAGE 27 OF THE PACKET. THANK YOU SO MUCH. OKAY.
THIS. NO, NO. THE BIG PLAN. THIS TO THE RIGHT OF THAT SIDE OF THAT.
SCROLL OVER MORE. OKAY, THAT'S JUST A BIG PAGE.
THERE WE GO. COULD YOU TALK US THROUGH THAT A LITTLE BIT? SO THE PROJECT SITE IS COMPOSED OF TWO PARCELS.
AND THEN THERE'S THE THE DRIVEWAYS THAT ARE OTHER PARCELS.
AND THEN THERE'S THE CORNER PARCEL. THE PROJECT SITE.
CORRECT. INCLUDING TWO PARCELS. THERE ARE CURRENTLY TWO PARCELS.
I MIGHT BE WRONG ABOUT THAT. I WASN'T INVOLVED IN THAT PROJECT, BUT IT IS CURRENTLY TWO PARCELS.
YES. OKAY. I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OF SOME OF THE MAPS IN THE IN THE STAFF REPORT AND THE MAPS AND IN THIS ONE AND MAKING SURE THAT I'M UNDERSTANDING.
BECAUSE IT SEEMED TO ME THAT SOME OF THE DRAWINGS, THE APPLICANTS DRAWINGS DON'T INCLUDE ALL OF THAT IN THE PROJECT SITE, WHICH DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN A PARCEL. NO, IT IT THE PROJECT SITE IS WHAT I DON'T.
ARE YOU ARE YOU ASKING ABOUT THE MAPS IN THE STAFF REPORT? BECAUSE IT DOES SHOW THIS ENTIRE L SHAPED PIECE.
NO OTHER. PROBABLY THE NEXT PAGE DOWN. YEAH. I GUESS IT SHOWS THE LAYOUT.
ONE IS THE DEMOLITION, THEN THE NEXT ONE IS THE.
OKAY, THERE WE GO. OKAY, SO THIS IS NEWMAN ROAD, THIS IS MARSH ROAD.
AND SO THAT SAME HEAVY DASHED LINE IS THE ENTIRE SITE.
RIGHT. THE THING THAT GOT MY EYE WAS THE DRIVE LANE TO THE NORTH OF THE KENTUCKY FRIED CHICKEN.
SO, I MEAN, IN THIS AREA, IT'S PART OF THE CIRCULATION FOR THIS PLAN.
MAYBE NOT. NO, THIS LOOKS LIKE GREEN SPACE. THAT IS CORRECT.
THAT IS THAT THAT DRIVE LANE IS ON A DIFFERENT PARCEL.
THEY ARE PROPOSING TO COME IN OFF OF MARSH HERE AND THIS IS NOT DRIVE ACCESS.
I CAN LET THEIR ENGINEER SPEAK MORE SPECIFICALLY TO THIS.
YEAH. THE TRAFFIC ASSESSMENT IS FROM THE PRIOR APPLICATION BECAUSE IT ADDRESSES THE INGRESS AND EGRESS OF THAT SITE PLAN. OKAY. SO THAT'S WHAT GOT ME CONFUSED IS BECAUSE THEN I WAS LOOKING AT THE TRAFFIC ASSESSMENT AND SAW A MAP OF THE OLD LAYOUT. SO COMMISSIONER MCCONNELL.
SO THE WHAT IS THE IMPLICATION OF THAT? MAYBE I'M GETTING AHEAD OF THE APPLICANT, BUT I THERE WASN'T ANY ENTRANCE IN DIRECTLY INTO THE VACUUMS FROM NEWMAN ROAD IN THE PRIOR, YOU WOULD GO AROUND AND ENTER THE MAIN MARSH ROAD ENTRANCE IN ORDER TO STACK FOR YOUR CAR WASH.
I MEAN, IN THIS INSTANCE, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE ABLE TO NOW ENTER THE CAR, WASH THROUGH THE VACUUMS, AND THEN GET YOUR WAY AROUND TO STACK FOR THE TUNNEL.
YEAH, THAT THAT LOOKS THAT LOOKS ACCURATE. AND I JUST KIND OF HONING IN ON THAT AS ONE OF THE PIECES OF THE CHANGE IN SITE PLAN THAT CAUSES IT TO BE A MAJOR AMENDMENT. YEAH. AND THE ONLY CONCERN I CAN IMAGINE WITH THIS, BECAUSE I DON'T
[00:20:03]
USE CAR WASH AS MUCH, SO I CAN'T REALLY GET IN MY MIND HOW IT'S GOING TO WORK.BUT IF THE I GUESS THERE'S LIKE 24 PLACES STACKING FOR ENTRANCE AND ANOTHER 24 IN THE CAR WASH.
BUT IF THE STACK, THE 24 IS ALREADY FULL, THE STACKING IS FULL, THEN IF YOU'VE GOTTEN IN THROUGH THE VACUUMS AND YOU'RE TRYING TO GET THE HECK OUT BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T REALIZE IT WAS SO BUSY THAT DAY. HOW DO YOU HOW DO YOU EMERGE? I MEAN, IF YOU'RE ON MARSH ROAD, YOU CAN SEE THERE'S 100 PEOPLE WAITING THERE. I'M NOT GOING TO PULL IN. ANYWAY.
WELL, IT IS A IT'S A 25. IT'S A 25 FOOT DRIVE LANE HERE.
SO I'LL DEFER TO THE APPLICANT AND THEIR ENGINEER ON THIS.
ALSO, THE STANDARD DISCLAIMER OUGHT TO BE SAID.
YOU KNOW, THE TRAFFIC, THE TRAFFIC OF ASSESSMENT THAT WAS DONE IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE ACCEPTED BY THE COUNTY ROAD DEPARTMENT AT THE TIME OF SITE PLAN APPROVAL, WHICH WILL HAPPEN IF AND OR WHEN THIS SUP IS APPROVED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
SORRY, I KEEP WANTING TO JUMP IN. SO IN THE DRIVEWAY THE EXISTING DRIVEWAY, THERE'S ALREADY A DRIVEWAY OFF OF MARSH INTO THIS LOCATION, RIGHT? YEAH. YEAH. OKAY. I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS IF I CAN.
PLEASE. I DON'T WANT TO STEAL YOUR.
SHORKEY YOU SAID C3 INTENSITY OR THE INTENSITY OF C3 WHEN YOU WERE EXPLAINING THIS.
ZONING DISTRICT IS C3. WE HAVE THREE CATEGORIES OF COMMERCIAL C1, C2, AND C3.
SO DO WE I CAN'T RECALL DO DO WE HAVE CAR WASHES THAT FALL INTO EACH OF THOSE CATEGORIES, OR CAN CAR WASHES ONLY BE IN ONE OF OR C2 AND C3 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AND SEE.
I DON'T WANT TO MISSPEAK. THERE'S NO PROBLEM WITH THEM BEING IN C3, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE ASKING.
OKAY. BUT THAT IS IRRELEVANT TO THIS QUESTION TO THIS SITE BECAUSE THIS IS C3.
OKAY. SO DOES THAT MEAN THAT C3. SO THAT COULD BE LIKE A MAJOR RETAILER.
YES. YES. GOES UP TO A MAJOR RETAILER BASICALLY.
OKAY. ONE OF THE THINGS I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT BEFORE WE GOT TO THE HEARING FROM THE APPLICANT WAS, IS THERE ANY THE THING RELATED TO LEAKAGE INTO THE GROUND FROM THE MATERIALS FROM A CAR WASH? THE DRAIN COMMISSIONER'S OFFICE WILL REVIEW STORMWATER AND THE [INAUDIBLE] OR THE AND THE MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP ENGINEERING STAFF WILL REVIEW THE DRAINAGE AND THE STORM AND THE SEWER SYSTEM AT THE TIME OF SITE PLAN APPROVAL.
SO YES. LEAKING, LEAKING CAR WASHES INTO THE GROUND, INTO THE SOIL IS A CONCERN.
THERE ARE AGENCIES LOOKING AT THAT, BUT THEY WILL SEE THAT DURING SITE PLAN REVIEW.
OKAY. AND THE APPLICATION THAT WE APPROVED GOT TO THAT POINT WITH THE DRAIN COMMISSIONER? TO THE POINT THAT THE DRAIN COMMISSIONER'S OFFICE WAS WAS REVIEWING IT.
YES. OKAY. SO WHAT LED TO. SO THEY WERE REVIEWING IT.
WHAT LED TO US SEEING THIS AGAIN? THE SELLING AGENT HAPPENS TO BE HERE FOR THE PROPERTY AS WELL, AND I'M HAPPY TO DEFER TO THEM. BUT THE GENERAL STORY, THE THE GENERAL PICTURE OF IT IS THAT THE, THE PRIOR DEVELOPER OF FROM 2003 OR EXCUSE ME, 2023, FOR WHATEVER REASON PULLED OUT OF THE DEAL. THEY SOLD THEY SOLD THE PROPERTY, THEY'RE SELLING THE PROPERTY AND THE PEOPLE THAT CAME IN AND BOUGHT IT ALSO WANT TO DO A CAR WASH.
OKAY. THEY JUST DON'T WANT TO DO IT THE SAME.
[00:25:04]
OR IS IT PENDING SALE? IT'S SOUNDS LIKE IT'S A PENDING SALE BECAUSE THE SELLER AGENT IS SITTING IN THE IN THE IN THE IN THE AUDIENCE.OKAY. SO I'M ASSUMING THE SALE IS LIKELY TO DEPEND ON.
THAT IS A I THINK THAT IS A FAIR ASSUMPTION. YES.
YEAH. IT'S A SLIGHTLY SMALLER BUILDING WITH MORE VACUUM STATIONS IS WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED.
THIS IS FEWER VACUUM STATIONS, A LITTLE BIT BIGGER BUILDING.
THE SIZE OF THE BUILDING IS DIFFERENT SO IT'S LARGER.
ARE THERE OTHER DIFFERENCES THAT WE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT OR CALL OUT? APPARENTLY THAT THE THE CURRENT APPLICANT HAS ADDED AN ENTRANCE AND AN EGRESS AND ENTRANCE FROM NEWMAN ROAD THAT WASN'T SHOWN ON THE PREVIOUS PLAN. I DIDN'T I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T REVIEW THE PREVIOUS PLAN.
THE INITIAL DISCUSSIONS OF IT THAT LED TO ALL OF THAT, I WASN'T THE STAFF PERSON THAT HANDLED IT, THEREFORE. OKAY. THE OTHER THAN THAT, I CAN, I CAN I CAN AGAIN TURN IT OVER TO THE APPLICANT AND THEY CAN TELL YOU AND OR THEIR ENGINEER AND THEY CAN TELL YOU WHAT THEY'VE MODIFIED. HOLD ON ONE SECOND.
SO HOW LONG DID THEY HAVE ON THE CURRENT SUP? BECAUSE DON'T THEY HAVE, LIKE, A TIMELINE WHERE THEY HAVE TO BE COMPLETED OR ELSE THE IT ENDS.
IT IS 24 MONTHS, BUT THEY CAN COME BACK AND ASK FOR A 12 MONTH EXTENSION.
THESE FOLKS GOT THEIR APPLICATION IN BEFORE THE END OF THAT BEFORE THE END OF THAT PERIOD.
OKAY. SO. SO IT'S SO WHEN IT'S APPROVED AND THEY HAVE TWO YEARS TO COMPLETE THE WORK AND THEN THEY CAN APPLY FOR A 12 MONTH EXTENSION. RIGHT.
OKAY. ALL RIGHT. OTHERWISE WOULD THERE HAVE. BUT THEY MADE THAT TWO YEAR DEADLINE.
OKAY. THE NEW APPLICANT, THE CURRENT APPLICANT MADE THAT TWO YEAR DEADLINE.
OKAY. DOES THAT EXTEND THE ABILITY TO DO THE SUP THOUGH? YES. THE NEW CLOCK WILL START IF AND OR WHEN YOU GUYS APPROVE THIS MOST LIKELY IN TWO WEEKS.
OKAY. SO THE. THE TWO YEAR CYCLE THOUGH, WHEN WOULD THAT HAVE ENDED? THE PERMIT WAS GRANTED ON MARCH 13TH. IT WOULD HAVE TAKEN EFFECT ON MARCH 23RD.
BECAUSE YOU HAVE A TEN DAY WAITING PERIOD, SO MARCH 23RD, 2025.
SO BUT THE APPLICATION CAME IN BEFORE THAT DATE.
OKAY. SO. OKAY. WHEN WAS THE APPLICATION SUBMITTED? I DON'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION IN FRONT OF ME.
IT LOOKS LIKE IT MIGHT BE DATED FEBRUARY 24TH.
OH. I'M SORRY, THAT IS IN THE PACKET. SORRY ABOUT THAT.
SORRY I MISSED THAT. NO, NO, NO, AS I WAS ASKING.
SORRY, I DIDN'T THINK OF THAT. YEAH. OKAY. MY LAST QUESTION FOR RIGHT NOW IS, SO YOU MENTIONED THE SEVEN DECIBELS FROM THE ROAD LIKE, I DOUBT THAT WE CAN ACHIEVE THAT BUT OKAY.
ALL RIGHT. 70. OKAY, I GET THAT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT.
THANK YOU. SURE. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? NOT A QUESTION, BUT JUST FOR THERE WAS A QUESTION EARLIER ABOUT WHICH COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS CAR WASHES ARE ALLOWED BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
COMMISSIONER MCCURTIS. YOU MENTIONED THAT THEY HAVE TWO YEARS, RIGHT?
[00:30:01]
THAT'S WHEN THE CLOCK STARTS. WHEN THAT TWO YEARS IS UP, WHAT HAPPENS? THEY CAN APPLY FOR RENEWAL. YOU SAID THEY CAN APPLY FOR AN EXTENSION TO THE TO THE APPROVING BODY, IN THIS CASE IT'S THE PLANNING COMMISSION. IF THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN THEN IT'S JUST THAT'S IT.JUST GO AND START A NEW APPLICATION. YEAH. THAT IS A VERY GENERAL STATEMENT.
I FORGET WHAT THE WHAT THE SPECIFIC LANGUAGE IS.
I DON'T KNOW IF THEY HAVE TO IF THEY HAVE TO COMPLETE THE PROJECT IN TWO YEARS. THEY HAVE TO, BUT THEY CERTAINLY IF YOU'RE IF YOU'RE HITTING THAT TWO YEAR MARK AND YOU'RE STILL IN SITE PLAN REVIEW, THAT CERTAINLY ISN'T QUALIFYING.
YEAH. OKAY. THAT'S IT. JUST NEED CLARIFICATION.
I'VE GOT MYSELF JUST A LITTLE BIT BETTER ORGANIZED.
IF YOU COULD SCROLL TO PAGE 41 OF 65 IN THE PACKET.
PAGE WHICH ONE? 41. 41. OKAY. THIS IS FROM THE TRAFFIC ASSESSMENT.
OKAY. SHOWING THE OLD SITE PLAN I BELIEVE WAS THIS IS WOULD HAVE BEEN THE ONE THAT WE APPROVED.
AND AND IF YOU. OKAY, IF YOU ZOOM ON THAT NEWMAN ROAD ENTRANCE I CAN'T.
IT'S NOT ZOOMING. I THINK I'M IN AS FAR AS I CAN.
OKAY. WELL THEN IMAGINE IF YOU WILL AND WHEN YOU ENTER THE ACTUAL CAR WASH AREA FROM NEWMAN ROAD THAT PAVEMENT MARKING SAYS STOP COMING OUT AND DO NOT ENTER COMING IN.
SO THERE'S NO ENTRANCE THERE. AND THE TRAFFIC WAS GOING TO COME UP AROUND THAT DRIVE AND THEN GO PAST THE DUMPSTERS TO GET INTO THE MAIN ENTRANCE SOMEWHERE. WELL THEN THIS HAS BEEN UPDATED BECAUSE THIS SHOWS TWO DIRECTIONAL ARROWS.
YES. OKAY. SO TO ME THAT IS IS ONE OF THE MAIN CHANGES.
YEAH. THE LAYOUT. THANK YOU. SURE. SINCE IT'S COME UP HERE.
THE. AND THAT ONE HAD 28 VACUUM STATIONS. YES.
AND THE CURRENT IS 24. YEP. THAT'S WHAT I READ.
ALL RIGHT. I'M GOOD. THANK YOU. OKAY. IS. THE APPLICANT IS HERE, THE ENGINEER IS HERE, AND THEY'RE WELL REPRESENTED. OKAY. DO WE HAVE ANY GREEN SHEETS FOR ANYONE WHO WANTED TO SUBMIT PUBLIC? WE DO NOT. OKAY. THEN LET'S, I GUESS, HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT.
UNLESS WE CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT AND THEN. OR CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.
OKAY. AND THEN I CAN NEVER REMEMBER. I'M SORRY.
THEN WE HAVE COMMISSION DISCUSSION WHICH IS AFTER WE CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.
OKAY. SO LET'S HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT. OKAY.
THIS IS THEIR PRESENTATION THAT THEY PREVIOUSLY SENT ME.
SO AND THIS IS NOT EXACTLY IN OUR PACKET. THIS IS A NO.
THIS IS NOT IN YOUR PACKET. GREAT. THANK YOU.
PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELVES AND GIVE US YOUR ADDRESS AND THEN GO AHEAD.
GOOD EVENING. I AM RACHEL WOLF. I AM THE DEVELOPMENT PROJECT MANAGER AT MISTER CAR WASH.
MY ADDRESS IS 332 SOUTHEAST 1/19 AVE, OLD TOWN, FLORIDA, 32680.
GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS ERIN MCMACHEN I'M WITH STONEFIELD ENGINEERING AND DESIGN.
OUR ADDRESS IS 555 SOUTH OLD WOODWARD, SUITE 12 L, IN BIRMINGHAM, MICHIGAN.
WE'VE BEEN HELPING MISTER CAR WASH EXPAND IN THE MIDWEST OVER THE LAST NUMBER OF YEARS.
THANK YOU. FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME TONIGHT.
I THINK THE BIGGEST WOULD BE, AS YOU HAD NOTED, THAT ENTRANCE COMING OFF OF NEWMAN FOR THE TIDAL WAVE SPILLED RIGHT INTO THE MIDDLE OF THEIR STACKING QUEUE. SO ESSENTIALLY WITH THE TIDAL WAVE PLAN AND CUSTOMERS FROM MARSH ROAD AND FROM NEWMAN ROAD WOULD KIND OF BE FIGHTING FOR THAT QUEUE LANE AND CUTTING IN
[00:35:05]
LINE, IF YOU WILL. SO THERE WERE REALLY ONLY EIGHT STACKING SPACES UNTIL THAT CONFLICT HAPPENED.AND MOST CAR WASHES YOU PULL INTO THE SITE AND YOU DO PROCEED DIRECTLY INTO THE PAY STATION LANES.
MISTER CAR WASH ALSO HAS THREE PAY STATION LANES RATHER THAN TWO THAT THE TIDAL WAVE PROPOSED.
THAT IS ALMOST DOUBLE WHAT THE TOWNSHIP REQUIRES.
AND AS YOU SAW IN THE TRAFFIC STUDY, THE PEAK TRIPS DURING ANY ONE HOUR WAS 37 TRIPS.
SOME ADDITIONAL DIFFERENCES WOULD BE AS STATED, THE NUMBER OF VACUUMS WE HAVE FOUR LESS VACUUMS. MISTER CAR WASH TYPICALLY RANGES ANYWHERE FROM 20 TO 30 VACUUMS. THIS SITE IN PARTICULAR WE HEARD THE TIDAL WAVE MEETINGS WE WATCHED AND WHAT THE FEEDBACK THERE AND SAW THAT OPEN SPACE WAS REALLY DESIRED AT THIS SITE.
AND THERE ARE A NUMBER OF EASEMENTS ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE SITE WITH A WATER MAIN, A COUNTY DRAIN.
SO OUT THERE TODAY, THERE'S LESS THAN HALF AN ACRE OF OPEN SPACE.
TIDAL WAVE WAS ALSO PROPOSING ABOUT HALF AN ACRE OF OPEN SPACE.
TIDAL WAVE WAS ALSO PROPOSING TO SPLIT THE PARCEL IN TWO.
SO WE'LL BE PROVIDING OVER AN ACRE AND A HALF OF OPEN SPACE.
SUNDAY THEY HAVE REDUCED HOURS FROM 8 A.M. TO 6 P.M..
AS STATED, MOST CUSTOMERS WILL ENTER OFF MARSH ROAD AND PULL INTO ONE OF THREE PAY STATIONS.
AS YOU SEE A LOT WITH THE MODERN CAR WASHES, THEY OPERATE HIGHLY ON THE MONTHLY MEMBERSHIP BUSINESS MODEL, SO ONE LANE WOULD BE DEDICATED TO THOSE MONTHLY MEMBERS.
THEIR MEMBERSHIP WOULD BE SCANNED, THEY'D PROCEED THROUGH INTO THE WASH, AND OTHER LANES WOULD BE AVAILABLE TO BOTH MONTHLY MEMBERS OR A CUSTOMER THAT WOULD BE PURCHASING A ONE TIME WASH OR PURCHASING THEIR FIRST MONTHLY MEMBERSHIP.
MISTER CAR WASH TYPICALLY HAS ABOUT FOUR EMPLOYEES ON SITE.
EMPLOYEE PARKING IS PROVIDED ALONG THAT SHARED ACCESS DRIVE ON MARSH ROAD.
FROM THE PAY STATIONS, THEY'LL PROCEED INTO THE CAR WASH TUNNEL, BUT BEFORE THAT, THERE IS A BYPASS LANE PROVIDED IN THE CASE THAT SOMEONE CHANGES THEIR MIND ABOUT A CAR WASH, FORGETS THEIR WALLET. CUSTOMER EMPLOYEES HAVE THE ABILITY TO RAISE THOSE GATES, ALLOW THEM TO MOVE THROUGH THE LANE AND BYPASS THE WASH TUNNEL.
AFTER THE WASH TUNNEL, MOST OF CUSTOMERS GO INTO THE CENTER OF THE SITE AND USE THE FREE VACUUM AREA, AND FROM THE VACUUM AREA, CUSTOMERS CAN EXIT AGAIN TO MARSH ROAD, NEWMAN ROAD OR EITHER OF THE CROSS ACCESS POINTS.
AGAIN, JUST GOING BACK TO OPEN SPACE AND DRAINAGE, REALLY A BIG IMPROVEMENT FOR THE AREA.
DRIVING BY THE SITE TODAY JUST ACROSS THE ROAD.
IT'S BEEN VACANT FOR A LONG WHILE AND WE THINK COULD REALLY USE SOME LIFE BEING BROUGHT BACK INTO THE SITE, WHICH IS WHY WE DID PROPOSE THE LARGE AMOUNT OF OPEN SPACE, AND WE DID START COORDINATING WITH THE DRAIN COMMISSION EARLY ON.
WE'VE WORKED WITH ANGIE COSMAN BEFORE, AND I TALKED WITH HER ABOUT THIS SITE BEFORE.
IF YOU HAVE DRIVEN BY THE SITE, IT IS A DIFFICULT SITE TO ENGINEER.
ADDITIONAL LANDSCAPE IMPROVEMENTS, IN ADDITION TO ADDING AN ACRE AND A HALF OF GREEN SPACE, WE'LL BE ADDING 10 ADDITIONAL TREES, 148 SHRUBS AND NEARLY 400 GROUND COVER PLANTINGS THROUGHOUT THE SITE.
MISTER CAR WASH REALLY GOES ABOVE AND BEYOND WITH THEIR LANDSCAPING REQUIREMENTS.
[00:40:03]
THEY WANT TO PROVIDE CUSTOMERS WITH A GOOD EXPERIENCE EVERY TIME THEY COME TO WASH THEIR CAR, AND ALSO ALL OF THE EXISTING TREES THAT ARE MATURE TREES ALONG MERIDIAN AND NEWMAN ARE GOING TO REMAIN AND BE PROTECTED.WE DID READ THROUGH THE EMAIL CORRESPONDENCE FROM THE RESIDENTS AND WANTED TO ADDRESS THOSE AS WELL.
THE FIRST BEING, YOU KNOW, WAS BROUGHT UP EARLIER ANY POTENTIAL LEAKAGE FROM THE RECLAMATION TANKS OR THE WASH PROCESS, ANY CHEMICALS THAT ARE USED. MISTER CAR WASH USES ECO FRIENDLY PRODUCTS IN THEIR CLEANING PROCESS, AND THEY DO HAVE RECLAMATION TANKS TO REUSE AS MUCH AS WATER AS POSSIBLE.
IT'S AN ADDITIVE THAT HELPS WITH QUALITIES OF REPELLENTS.
THEY'RE REQUIRED TO FOLLOW MUNICIPAL AND STATE REQUIREMENTS, SO EGLE WOULD BE THE GOVERNING BODY.
AND IN 2020, EGLE DID RELEASE GUIDELINES AND LIMITS TO PFAS.
SO MISTER CAR WASH WOULD BE REQUIRED TO COMPLY WITH THAT.
THE REMAINDER OF THE RESIDENTIAL COMMENTS PERTAIN TO THERE BEING POSSIBLY TOO MANY CAR WASHES IN THE AREA, OR WHY CAN THE SITE NOT STAY A RESTAURANT? UNFORTUNATELY, IT HAS BEEN SITTING VACANT FOR QUITE SOME TIME AS A RESTAURANT WITH NO INTEREST. TIDAL WAVE HAD INTEREST AS A CAR WASH, MISTER CAR WASH SEES THAT POTENTIAL AS WELL, AND WE ARE EXCITED TO AGAIN BRING LIFE BACK TO THIS SITE.
AND AS FAR AS OTHER CAR WASHES, THERE'S ABOUT FIVE THAT WE SAW IN A FIVE MILE RADIUS.
IT'S KIND OF BORDERS EAST LANSING SERVES A LOT OF THE EAST LANSING COMMUNITY, BUT OPERATES KIND OF ON THE SAME BUSINESS MODEL, THEY'RE A MODERN CAR WASH. OTHERWISE YOU KNOW, MISTER CAR WASH HAS SHOWN THAT THIS SITE WOULD BE AN IDEAL LOCATION FOR THEM TO SERVE THE MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP COMMUNITY. AND AGAIN, THE PROJECT'S A GREAT CHANCE TO REDEVELOP THIS SITE THAT'S BEEN SITTING HERE IN THE CORRIDOR FOR QUITE SOME TIME. WE'RE INTRODUCING NOT JUST A TOP TIER SERVICE, BUT AGAIN, THAT 1.5 ACRES OF GREEN SPACE ADDED BACK TO THE COMMUNITY AND THE MARSH ROAD CORRIDOR WHERE IT'S HEAVILY DEVELOPED. IT'S BE A GREAT ESTHETIC IMPROVEMENT TO THE SITE.
THESE ARE THEIR TYPICAL BUILDING ELEVATIONS. AND I THINK WHAT GOES A BIT FURTHER IS A PHOTO OF ONE OF THEIR SITES IN PENNSYLVANIA, THESE ARE THE FINISHES THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING HERE IN MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP. SO POTENTIALLY THE FUTURE VIEW FROM MARSH ROAD.
COMMISSIONER MCCURTIS. TWO QUESTIONS I JUST WANTED QUICKLY, YOU SAID PENNSYLVANIA.
ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT LOCATION HERE IN LANSING ON PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE? NO. I'M SORRY FOR THE CONFUSION. THIS LOCATION, PARTICULARLY, IS IN THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA, BUT WAS CONSTRUCTED WITH THEIR NEW PROTOTYPE. SO IT'S A GREAT EXAMPLE OF WHAT COULD BE BROUGHT HERE.
GOTCHA. OKAY. A REAL QUESTION. WHEN YOU IF, IF IT'S EVER APPROVED AND ALL THAT SORT OF THING.
GENERALLY SPEAKING, HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO BUILD A MISTER CAR WASH? DO YOU HAVE A TIMELINE ON THAT? JUST OVER SIX MONTHS? YEAH. EIGHT MONTHS. ROUGHLY EIGHT, TEN MONTHS.
EXCUSE ME. YES, SIR. GO AHEAD. COMMISSIONER. COMMISSIONER ROMBACK.
DO YOU OPERATE ANY IN MICHIGAN TODAY? YES. THEY HAVE OVER 30 LOCATIONS IN MICHIGAN.
I KNOW THEY HAVE TWO KIND OF NEAR HERE IN LANSING AND GRAND LEDGE.
THOSE ARE A BIT DIFFERENT. THEY'RE THE REHAB PROJECTS.
YOU CAN ONLY GO SO FAR WITH THOSE IN TERMS OF BRINGING THE NEW TECHNOLOGY.
SO THEY FELT MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP WAS WORTHY OF A GOOD INVESTMENT INTO A BRAND NEW BUILDING.
THEN THIS MIGHT BE A BETTER QUESTION FOR THE ENGINEER, BUT I'M GOING TO TRY IT. SO TO WHAT EXTENT DOES SEASONALITY GO INTO YOUR TRAFFIC ASSESSMENTS? BECAUSE I WOULD IMAGINE YOU HAVE LOWER USAGE IN WINTER MONTHS, RIGHT, WITH A SPIKE THEN IN SPRING AND SUMMER MONTHS.
SO IT IS CONTRADICTING MAYBE OVERALL FOR THE WINTER YOU MIGHT SEE LOWER, BUT YOU GET THAT ONE DAY THAT'S SUN COMES OUT AFTER EVERYONE'S GOT SALT ON THEIR VEHICLES. AND THAT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, A PEAK DAY.
SO THOSE ARE ANALYZED IN TERMS OF TRAFFIC STUDIES.
[00:45:02]
ESPECIALLY WITH THE MONTHLY MEMBERSHIP, TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THAT SERVICE THAT THEY'RE PAYING FOR.SO AND OBVIOUSLY EGLE WOULD HAVE TO STAY WITHIN THE LIMITS.
BUT CAN YOU EXPAND ON WHAT DOES THAT INTENTIONALLY MEAN.
SO I'M NOT AN EXPERT ON THIS, BUT PFAS ARE FOUND IN ALMOST EVERYTHING TO SOME EXTENT.
SO CERTAIN INGREDIENTS, YOU KNOW, NECESSARILY ARE NOT BEING ADDED TO THE CHEMICALS.
I DON'T KNOW HOW TO ELABORATE ON THAT, BUT OUR OPERATIONS MANAGER DID GIVE US A STATEMENT AND SAID THAT THEY DO CONFIRM WITH THEIR SUPPLIERS THAT NOTHING IS BEING ADDED TO OR AN INGREDIENT OF THEIR PRODUCTS, BUT ESSENTIALLY COULD BE A BYPRODUCT.
SO WE DO OUR BEST TO BE AS ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY AS POSSIBLE.
OKAY. YEAH, AND I THINK OBVIOUSLY THOSE ARE OUTSIDE OF OUR JURISDICTION ANYWAY.
I THINK THAT'S IT FOR ME, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE A NICE BUILDING. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? I'VE ALWAYS GOT MORE. YOU KNOW ME. GO AHEAD. I WANT TO TALK ABOUT DUMPSTERS AND STAFF PARKING.
THOSE MOVED AS WELL. CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH THAT A LITTLE BIT AND MAYBE THE LAYOUT OF THE BUILDING? YEAH. SO THE LAYOUT OF THE BUILDING YOU CAN SEE OBVIOUSLY THE ENTRANCE AND EXIT TO THE TUNNEL ARE ON THE SOUTH SIDE, AND THEN THE NORTH PORTION OF THE BUILDING WOULD HOUSE A RESTROOM, A SMALL OFFICE FOR EMPLOYEES, AS WELL AS A MECHANICAL ROOM FOR ALL THE EQUIPMENT AND CLEANING PRODUCTS.
SO I THINK THAT GOES BACK TO KIND OF ANSWERING ONE OF THE CAR WASH REQUIREMENTS OF NO OUTDOOR STORAGE OF CHEMICALS, CLEANERS, MATERIALS. THERE WILL BE NO OUTDOOR STORAGE HERE, THAT'S ALL HOUSED ENTIRELY IN THE BUILDING.
IT ALSO KIND OF BRINGS UP A GOOD POINT TO DELIVERIES.
TRASH ENCLOSURE IS INTENTIONALLY PLACED WITHIN THE VACUUM AREA.
IT SHARES A ENCLOSURE WITH ONE OF THE PRODUCERS FOR THE VACUUM MOTOR.
SO WITH THESE MODERN CAR WASHES, THERE'S NOT A VACUUM.
SO JUST COMBINING THE TRASH ENCLOSURE WITH THE PRODUCER.
AND THEN FROM MARSH ROAD AND EXIT THROUGH NEWMAN ROAD.
AND THE STAFF PARKING IS KIND OF ALMOST OFF SITE.
THERE WAS ONE PART THAT WAS CALLED A BUSINESS CASE OR SOMETHING.
I GUESS OCCASIONALLY PEOPLE NEED TO COME INSIDE AREA.
AND THERE'S A LITTLE KIOSK USUALLY, BUT IT'S ESSENTIALLY THE SAME THING AS WHAT OUR ATTENDANT OUTSIDE WOULD BE DOING ON A PAD, YOU KNOW? THAT'S IT. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I HAVE SOME. GO AHEAD, COMMISSIONER BROOKS. SO I JUST WANT TO ASK ABOUT THE PFAS AGAIN.
SO THE YOU SAID YOU DIDN'T ADD THE YOU CHECKED WITH YOUR SUPPLIERS AND THAT THEY DON'T ADD PFAS.
AND THEN YOU SAID THAT THE THAT I'VE BLANKED ON WHAT THE CAR WASH IS CALLED MISTER CAR.
MR.. MISTER CAR WASH. MISTER CAR WASH. SORRY.
SO BUT THEN MISTER CAR WASH HAS ITS OWN FORMULA FOR IT.
WELL, WE HAVE A PROPRIETARY BLEND IS WHAT THEY CALL WHAT OUR WATER GUYS CALL IT.
OKAY. YEAH, BUT WE STILL HAVE TO GET THOSE CHEMICALS AND THINGS FROM OUR MANUFACTURERS.
SO THAT WAS WHO THEY REACHED OUT TO TO GIVE THAT STATEMENT.
YOU KNOW, JUST TO CLARIFY THAT PFAS CONCERN. OKAY.
SO THERE'S NO ADDED PFAS, BUT THERE IS PFAS PRESENT IN THE CHEMICALS.
AND THE PFAS MAY BE PRESENT IN EVERYTHING THAT WE HAVE.
[00:50:05]
I GET THAT POINT. IS IT PRESENT IN THE CHEMICALS, THOUGH, THAT YOU'RE USING IN THE CAR WASH? I WOULD HAVE TO GET THAT INFORMATION FOR YOU JUST TO CONFIRM.OKAY. IF THAT'S SOMETHING. YES, PLEASE. SO THE I'D LIKE TO ASK SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CHANGES.
SO THE BUILDING INCREASED IN SIZE AND THEN THE PARCEL WAS SO THERE WAS GOING TO BE OTHER DEVELOPMENT THAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, HAPPEN HERE. SO WHY DID IT GET INCREASED IN SIZE, GIVEN THAT THERE ARE OTHER CAR WASHES IN THE AREA AND THAT I'VE ALSO, I DON'T KNOW THAT I RECALL EVER GOING BY A CAR WASH WHERE ALL THE VACUUMS ARE BEING USED, OR THAT THERE'S REALLY THAT MUCH OF A LINE.
SO IT SEEMS LIKE A LARGE DEVELOPMENT FOR AN EVEN BIGGER AMOUNT OF SPACE.
SO IN TERMS OF THE PARCEL AREA OR THE BUILDING AREA.
YEAH. SO BASICALLY WHAT I'M, I'M WHAT AM I ASKING HERE.
AND NOW WE'RE JUST GETTING ONE LARGE CAR WASH WHEN WE DO HAVE CAR WASHES IN OTHER PLACES.
SO WHY? I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, A LARGE CAR WASH IS, YOU KNOW, COMPARED TO MAYBE THE TIDAL WAVE, IT IS LARGER. THE LARGER, I'M SORRY, THE SMALLER THAT YOU MAKE YOUR TUNNEL, THE LOWER QUALITY OF WASH YOU HAVE.
SO NOT NECESSARILY, YOU KNOW, INTENTIONALLY PROPOSING A LARGER BUILDING, JUST WANTING TO PROVIDE THAT HIGH LEVEL OF SERVICE AND, YOU KNOW, AMENDING A SPECIAL LAND USE. WE DID LOOK BACK AT THE PREVIOUS MEETINGS AND IN OUR PRE-APPLICATION MEETING WITH KEITH, YOU KNOW, IT WAS BROUGHT UP THAT OPEN SPACE DRAINAGE AND TRAFFIC CIRCULATION WERE KIND OF CONCERNS WITH THE TIDAL WAVE APPLICATION.
I DON'T HAVE A SITE PLAN WITH THE EASEMENT SHOWN, BUT THERE'S A COUNTY DRAIN THAT RUNS ALONG THE EAST SIDE OF OUR SITE, SOUTH TO NORTH, AND THEN A WATER MAIN EASEMENT THAT COMES INTO OUR SITE.
THE WATER MAIN EASEMENT IS ACTUALLY RECORDED INCORRECTLY, SO IT DOESN'T ENCOMPASS THE WATER MAIN, BUT WE'LL BE CORRECTING THAT. I WANT TO IF I CAN.
LIKE THERE IT WASN'T LIKE, OH MY GOSH, THERE'S GOING TO BE TWO THINGS THERE.
THEY COULDN'T EVEN GET THEIRS THROUGH SITE PLAN.
I MEAN, OKAY, OKAY. SO IT'S NOT LIKE YOU'RE LOSING A SECOND DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE IT WAS NEVER THERE.
OKAY. THAT JUST WAS CONFUSING. SO I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THOSE THINGS.
I DON'T KNOW IF I WAS THE ONLY ONE CONFUSED ABOUT THAT, BUT I'M JUST ASKING.
SO WE ONLY HAVE LIMITED SPACE HERE TO DEVELOP.
SO I GET THAT PREVIOUSLY WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IN THE PREVIOUS SUP THAT WAS APPROVED THAT THOSE WERE THE CONCERNS WERE A COUPLE YEARS LATER. THE SPACE IN THE TOWNSHIP THAT IS DEVELOPABLE KEEPS GOING DOWN.
SO I, I JUST AM CAUTIOUS ABOUT LIKE OVERBUILDING THINGS THAT DON'T ACTUALLY NEED THAT MUCH CAPACITY.
SO WHEN I HEAR ABOUT A MEMBERSHIP, MONTHLY MEMBERSHIP, CAR WASH, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE PAYING FOR THAT SERVICE, RIGHT? AND THEN A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE ARE GOING TO BE USING IT.
SO THEN THERE'S GOING TO BE CASH FLOW INTO THE BUSINESS AND POTENTIALLY LESS USE OF THE BUSINESS.
SORT OF LIKE A GYM WOULD BE. SO IF MY ASSUMPTION IS THAT THAT TENDS TO HAPPEN IN THESE KIND OF LOCATIONS, I COULD BE WRONG. BUT I'M CURIOUS IF YOU LOOKED AT BUILDING LESS CAPACITY.
LIKE, I KNOW THAT YOU REDUCED IT SOMEWHAT. IS THIS THE MINIMUM THAT YOU LOOKED AT, OR IS THIS JUST THE BEST LEVEL THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO ACHIEVE? SO TYPICALLY, MISTER CAR WASH DOES APPROACH CLOSER TO 30 VACUUMS AT THIS LOCATION.
[00:55:02]
THIS WAS THE BEST FOOTPRINT IN TERMS OF, AS WAS MENTIONED, THE EASEMENTS.BUT LIKE YOU SAID, PEOPLE ARE PAYING FOR THIS MONTHLY MEMBERSHIP.
WHEN THEY COME TO THE CAR WASH THEY WOULD HOPE THAT A VACUUM WOULD BE AVAILABLE AT ANY TIME DURING A PEAK HOUR ON A BUSY DAY, THEY WOULD HOPE THAT A VACUUM IS AVAILABLE AND THEY CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE SERVICE THEY'RE PAYING FOR.
YOU KNOW, LIKE A GYM MEMBERSHIP YOU HOPE YOU DON'T SHOW UP AND THE THREE TREADMILLS THAT ARE THERE ARE ALL FULL. SO 24 VACUUMS FELT LIKE A HAPPY MEDIUM FOR THE SITE, WHERE THEY CAN ENSURE EVERYONE IS SERVICED WITH A VACUUM WHEN THEY COME TO VISIT THE SITE.
HOW MANY DID I SAY SOMETHING ABOUT FREE VACUUMS THOUGH? FREE FOR CUSTOMERS YES. OH I SEE. OKAY, SO IT'S NOT IT'S NOT FREE VACUUMS, BUT IT'S ONLY FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE MONTHLY MEMBERS.
OR WITH IF YOU PURCHASE A CAR WASH, YOU CAN USE THE VACUUMS. SOME OF THE SITES DO HAVE GATED ENTRY WHERE, YOU KNOW TRAFFIC WOULD BE PROHIBITED FROM ENTERING THE VACUUM AREA.
THE SITE DOESN'T, SO IT MAY BE A BIT OF AN HONOR SYSTEM AND EMPLOYEES WILL BE WALKING THE SITE, BUT THE VACUUMS ARE FREE TO CUSTOMERS. YES. OKAY, I SEE, SO THERE'S A BIG SIGN THAT SAYS FREE VACUUMS, BUT IT'S ONLY FOR PAYING CUSTOMERS. I MEAN, IF YOU PULL IN AND START VACUUMING OUT YOUR CAR, WE'RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO THROW YOU OUT OF THERE. OKAY, SO BUT YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR A MEMBER.
SO. OKAY. WELL, WE WON'T GET INTO FALSE ADVERTISING, I SUPPOSE.
OKAY, I'M I'M GUESSING THAT YOU WON'T ANSWER THIS QUESTION, BUT I'M JUST GOING TO ASK IT ANYWAYS.
WHAT'S THE PERCENTAGE OF MEMBERSHIPS THAT ACTUALLY USE THE CAR WASHES ONCE THEY'RE SET UP? WELL, WE HAVE, I DON'T KNOW THE USAGE OF EACH INDIVIDUAL, BUT VERY CLOSE TO 2.2 MILLION UNLIMITED CAR WASH.
YOU DON'T HAVE AN AVERAGE AT LOCATIONS IN MICHIGAN.
I'M SORRY. WAS IT HOW MANY PEOPLE USE THEIR MEMBERSHIP? YOU KNOW, LIKE YOU SAID, JUST LIKE A GYM MEMBERSHIP OR WHATEVER.
SOMETIMES PEOPLE DON'T STICK TO CLEANING THEIR CARS OR DOING SQUATS.
NO, I DO NOT. OKAY. I'LL BET IT'S SEASONAL. YEAH, IT COULD BE.
THE LAST QUESTION I HAVE IS SO THIS WAS APPROVED IN 2023, AND THEN A MONTH BEFORE IT WAS SLATED TO THE SUP WAS EITHER HAD TO BE GET A 12 MONTH EXTENSION OR AND THEN WE GOT THIS APPLICATION AND I'M JUST IT SEEMS LIKE ODD TIMING. IS THERE A REASON THAT IT HAPPENED AT THAT VERY INSTANCE? I DISAGREE RESPECTFULLY. OKAY. I THINK IT'S PERFECT TIMING.
THEY THEY MADE THE DEADLINE. THEY MADE THE CUTOFF.
THEY THEY SUBMITTED A LEGAL APPLICATION FOR AN AMENDED FOR AN AMENDED SUP.
YEAH. LIKE IT'S SO THE TIMING IS BUT THE TIMING WAS WITHIN OUR ORDINANCE FOR AN AMENDED SUP.
OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. GO AHEAD. COMMISSIONER ROMBACK.
SO ONE MORE BACK TO THE PFAS THING. I DID A QUICK SEARCH HERE IN EGLE'S EAGLE.
SORRY. WEBSITE. COULDN'T FIND ANY VIOLATIONS RELATING TO YOU GUYS.
HAVE YOU EVER HAD AN ISSUE WITH PFAS IN ANY ONE OF YOUR 31 LOCATIONS IN MICHIGAN? NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF NO. I HAVE ONLY BEEN WITH MISTER FOR TWO YEARS, THOUGH I WILL SAY.
OKAY. I MEAN, HOW MANY? SO HOW MANY MISTER CAR WASHES HAVE YOU OPENED IN YOUR TWO YEARS WITH MISTER CAR WASH IN MICHIGAN? I AM IN FLORIDA. I'M USUALLY DOWN THERE, SO THIS IS KIND OF A ONE OFF FOR ME.
NONE IN MICHIGAN. THIS WILL BE MY FIRST ONE. HOPEFULLY.
YEAH. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? QUESTION. THANK YOU.
THE GREEN SPACE I FIND TREMENDOUSLY EXCITING IN THAT AREA.
THE GREEN, IS THE GREEN SPACE REALLY GOING TO BE EVERYTHING THAT I'M SEEING THAT IS GREEN? CORRECT? YES. ANYTHING ON THE AERIAL? SO THE EXISTING IMAGERY IN THE BACKGROUND OF THIS SITE PLAN SHOWN IS WHAT WE'RE NOT TOUCHING.
SO THAT STUB COMING IN FROM NEWMAN AND THE ACCESS DRIVE ALONG MARSH.
THOSE ARE GOING TO REMAIN JUST WE DON'T WANT TO DISRUPT ACCESS TO ANY OF THOSE EXISTING USES.
[01:00:05]
EVERYTHING ELSE WILL BE BRAND NEW PAVEMENT OR GRASS.IT'LL BE ALL LAWN. YES. GREEN GRASS GROWING LAWN.
I HEARD YOU MENTION GROUND COVER, SO I ASSUME THAT'S MOSTLY.
OKAY, EXCELLENT. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I THINK MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS HAVE ASKED ANYTHING I MIGHT HAVE BEEN INTERESTED IN KNOWING, SO I DON'T HAVE ANY. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE APPRECIATE IT.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF YOU HEARD MORE FROM THE APPLICANT? OKAY. PUBLIC INPUT. IS THERE ANYONE NOW, HAVING HEARD WHAT YOU HEARD, WE WOULD LIKE TO NOW GIVE PUBLIC INPUT ON THIS.
OKAY. SEEING NONE, I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 730.
AND WOULD ENTERTAIN JUST A SENSE OF THE COMMISSION INCLINATION TO GIVE STAFF A DIRECTION FOR PREPARING A RESOLUTION FOR OUR NEXT MEETING . THOSE WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF SUPPORT FOR THIS PROPOSAL.
PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE AYE AYE. ANY OPPOSED? OKAY.
I AM ALSO SUPPORTIVE. ANY FINAL THOUGHTS? YEAH.
I JOINED COMMISSIONER SNYDER IN WELCOMING AN INCREASE IN OPEN SPACE.
AND WHAT I THINK IS PROBABLY A BETTER TRAFFIC LAYOUT.
AND I'D LIKE TO EXPRESS MY SYMPATHIES TO THE APPLICANT FOR HAVING TO SIT THROUGH A RECORDING OR PRIOR MEETINGS TO UNDERSTAND, WE DON'T GET THAT OFTEN, SO YAY! THANK YOU FOR DOING THAT.
IN RESPONSE TO THE PUBLIC COMMENT IT CERTAINLY THERE IS SOME EXPERTISE ON THE ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSION THAT COULD LOOK INTO THE ISSUES OF PFAS REGULATION AND SEE IF THERE ARE THINGS THAT A MUNICIPALITY CAN DO IN THAT REGARD.
SINCE WE DON'T MANAGE STORMWATER OR THAT'S WE RELY ON THE DRAIN COMMISSIONER.
THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER ROMBACK. SO, WHILE I AM SUPPORTIVE, I WILL ADDRESS THERE WERE SOME COMMENTS IN THE PUBLIC ABOUT, YOU KNOW, GETTING MORE RESTAURANTS. AND AS THE GUY THAT POUNDS ABOUT RESTAURANTS EVERY MEETING, I AM CERTAINLY SYMPATHETIC. BUT TO THE APPLICANTS LIKE THE SITE HAS SAT VACANT.
SO IT'S NOT LIKE THERE'S NOT MORE SPACE FOR RESTAURANTS OR OTHER OPPORTUNITIES.
AND I ALSO THINK THAT LAST TIME I HEARD THE RENTAL RATE AT THIS PARTICULAR FORMER OUTBACK WAS COST PROHIBITIVE TO MANY OF OUR SMALLER BUSINESSES AND SMALLER RESTAURANTS AND MUCH RATHER HAVE SOMETHING SITTING IN THE SPACE BEING USED THAN A, FRANKLY, A DILAPIDATED OUTBACK STEAKHOUSE.
ALSO, IF I COULD JUST KIND OF ADD TO THAT, I THINK ONE OF THE CONCERNING RUNNING THEMES IN A LOT OF PUBLIC COMMENTARY THAT WE RECEIVE, COMMUNICATIONS THAT WE RECEIVE IS THE THEME OF A MISUNDERSTANDING OF OUR PURPOSE.
YOU KNOW, WE DON'T GET TO DECIDE. WE'RE NOT LIKE, YAY, WE WANT A RESTAURANT.
SO NO TO THE CAR WASH, YOU KNOW? THAT ISN'T HOW IT WORKS.
SO THERE IS THAT PERCEPTION, THOUGH, AND IT'S AN UNFORTUNATE ONE THAT YOU KNOW, WHAT WE DO IS WE ALIGN DECISIONS WITH THE ORDINANCE, AND THE ORDINANCE IS ALIGNED WITH LAW.
SO THANK YOU ALL. THOSE ARE GOOD, GOOD HELPFUL STATEMENTS.
AND IT IS TRUE THAT I TOO WOULD LOVE TO SEE AND WOULD PROMISE TO FREQUENT RESTAURANTS IN THE TOWNSHIP SHOULD ANYBODY CHOOSE TO DEVELOP ONE. I'M VERY SUPPORTIVE OF THAT USE.
I'M ALSO SUPPORTIVE OF, AS YOU SAY, NOT HAVING A SPACE THAT SITS VACANT, BUT TO REALLY BRING IT BACK UP INTO A PRODUCTIVE BUSINESS THAT BOTH BRINGS JOBS TO THE COMMUNITY AND ALSO DEVELOPS THE SITE IN A WAY THAT I THINK GIVES IT AT LEAST SOME NEW LIFE, NEW LIFE AND VITALITY. I'VE BEEN IN CITIES AND PLACES WHERE YOU SEE A LOT OF EMPTY, EMPTY BUILDINGS, AND THAT'S NOT GOOD. AND IT SORT OF FIX YOUR FRONT PORCH.
YOU WANT TO HAVE A MAJOR THOROUGHFARE IN OUR IN OUR TOWNSHIP SHOWING A SIGN OF ACTIVITY.
[01:05:08]
SUCCESS. YOU KNOW, THEY'RE PUTTING AN INVESTMENT INTO THE COMMUNITY, AND I DON'T THINK THEY WOULD DO SO IN THIS CASE IF THEY DIDN'T FEEL THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE SUCCESSFUL. AND I'M SURE THAT'S BASED ON SOME MARKET RESEARCH, SO.I MEAN, THAT'S PACKED A LOT. IT'S QUITE CONSISTENTLY QUITE FULL.
SO I'D BE HAPPY NOT TO HAVE TO DRIVE ALL THE WAY DOWN THERE TO GET TO A CARWASH.
I WANT TO SEE ALL OF OUR TOWNSHIP BUSINESSES SUCCESSFUL.
YES. THANK YOU. OKAY, SO NOW WE ARE ON TO ITEM 8, UNFINISHED BUSINESS.
[8.A. SUP #25006 – Precious Sprouts Group Child Care]
ITEM 8 A IS SPECIAL USE PERMIT NUMBER 25006 PRECIOUS SPROUTS GROUP CHILDCARE.AND I THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE. AND AS WE CONDUCTED OUR OTHER BUSINESS.
I WARNED THEM. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. GO AHEAD.
THIS IS THE SECOND MEETING FOR SPECIAL USE PERMIT NUMBER 25006, PRECIOUS SPROUTS TO ESTABLISH A GROUP CHILD CARE HOME FOR UP TO 14 CHILDREN AT 2137 BUTTERNUT DRIVE. I HAVE NO FURTHER INPUT ABOVE AND BEYOND THE WHAT WAS STATED AT THE PUBLIC HEARING.
WE'VE HAD NO FURTHER COMMENT FROM ANYONE IN THE PUBLIC ON THIS APPLICATION.
THE APPLICANT IS HERE AND YOU HAVE A RESOLUTION TO APPROVE IN YOUR PACKET.
THANK YOU. I MOVE TO ADOPT THE RESOLUTION APPROVING SPECIAL USE PERMIT NUMBER 25006 TO ESTABLISH A GROUP CHILD CARE HOME FOR UP TO 14 CHILDREN AT 2137 BUTTERNUT DRIVE. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER MCCONNELL SECOND.
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER VICE CHAIR SNIDER. SO MOVED AND APPROVED.
MOVED AND SUPPORTED THE APPROVAL OF SPECIAL USE PERMIT NUMBER 25006.
IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? I KNOW I STILL DON'T LIKE THE MICHIGAN ZONING ENABLING ACT.
THANK YOU. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? OKAY, THEN I THINK WE ARE READY TO VOTE.
COMMISSIONER MCCONNELL. YES. COMMISSIONER SNYDER.
YES. COMMISSIONER MCCURTIS. YES. COMMISSIONER BROOKS.
YES. COMMISSIONER ROMBACK. YES. AND THE CHAIR VOTES YES.
SO THIS IS APPROVED. THANK YOU. THANKS FOR YOUR PRESENCE.
THANK YOU. NEXT ON OUR AGENDA IS ITEM 8 B. OKAY.
[8.B. ZA #25002 – Sec. 86-755 – Schedule of Requirements for Parking Space]
AND THAT'S THE LIKE I SAID, I'LL GET A LETTER OUT TO YOU TOMORROW.OKAY. THANK YOU. THIS IS A ZONING AMENDMENT NUMBER 25002 AMENDING SECTION 86755, THE SCHEDULE OF REQUIREMENTS FOR PARKING SPACE. YEP. NO FURTHER COMMENT OVER WHAT WAS SPOKEN OF AT THE PUBLIC HEARING AND SEVERAL MEETINGS BEFORE THAT. THIS ACHIEVES THE FOLLOWING: IT REDUCES IMPERVIOUS SURFACES IN FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS, MODERNIZES LAND USES AND THE LAND USE LIST, AND SIMPLIFIES SOME OF THE PARKING CALCULATIONS FOR EASE OF USE DURING SITE PLAN APPROVALS.
THERE IS A RESOLUTION TO APPROVE THIS. THIS IS A RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE.
THANK YOU. IS THERE A MOTION TO TO A MOTION FOR THE TO THE RESOLUTION IN OUR PACKET. IF I COULD GET TO THE RIGHT PAGE. I WAS GOING TO SAY I'M SCROLLING BACK AND FORTH.
I APOLOGIZE. THANK YOU. OR MAYBE IF. MR. SHORKEY.
I'M SORRY. DOES THAT HELP? THERE WE GO. ADOPT THE RESOLUTION.
YES. IS THERE A MOTION TO ADOPT THE RESOLUTION RECOMMENDING APPROVAL? YES. I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE TO ADOPT THE RESOLUTION OF ZONING AMENDMENT NUMBER 25002 TO THE TOWNSHIP BOARD.
THAT'S MY BAD. I WAS READING THE WRONG LINE. HOPEFULLY EVERYONE UNDERSTOOD WHAT I WAS TRYING TO DO.
THANK YOU. I DO. AND I SECOND THE MOTION. IS THERE A SECOND TO THAT MOTION? I SECOND THE MOTION. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER MCCONNELL.
IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS RESOLUTION? OKAY I WILL. IT'S FINALLY GOING TO GET DONE. OKAY.
I CALL FOR THE VOTE, THEN. COMMISSIONER SNYDER.
YES. COMMISSIONER MCCONNELL. YES. COMMISSIONER MCCURTIS.
YES. COMMISSIONER BROOKS. YES. COMMISSIONER ROMBACK.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU, THANK YOU. OTHER BUSINESS?
[01:10:02]
WE HAVE NONE. REPORTS AND ANNOUNCEMENTS. TOWNSHIP BOARD UPDATE.[10. A. Township Board update]
ON APRIL 3RD, THE TOWNSHIP BOARD DID APPROVE THE REZONING ON DOBIE ROAD.TOMORROW, THE BOARD IS LOOKING AT A NEW APPOINTMENT FOR THE VACANT PLANNING COMMISSION CHAIR OR.
EXCUSE ME. SEE, WE NEED TO TALK. YEAH, SORRY.
HR IS OUTSIDE. I WAS I WAS LOOKING UP. IT IS LITERALLY A CHAIR.
OKAY. THANK YOU. OKEMOS LOCAL INVESTMENTS SPECIAL USE PERMIT IS UP FOR ACTION TOMORROW, AND THE BOARD IS DISCUSSING, THIS IS NOT ANY VOTE OR ANYTHING, THIS IS JUST ONGOING DISCUSSION OF THE SENIOR SLASH COMMUNITY CENTER AND THE BROWNFIELD HOUSING TIF AMENDMENT.
GREAT. ANY QUESTIONS ON THE REPORT? LIAISON REPORTS TO SHARE. YES, PLEASE. HERE IT IS. THE APRIL 2ND ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSION
[10.B. Liaison reports]
MEETING. THE COMMISSION APPROVED A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE COMMITTEE THAT REVIEWS OUR GREEN GRANT APPLICATIONS FOR SMALL, ENVIRONMENTALLY RELATED PROJECTS THAT CONTRIBUTE TO ACHIEVING THE GOALS OF OUR CLIMATE SUSTAINABILITY PLAN.THE GREEN GRANT FUNDING TENDS TO BE QUITE SMALL.
AND IN THE PAST HAS GONE MAINLY TO SCHOOLS. AND IN THE LAST ROUND, MORE AND MORE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS ARE SUCCESSFULLY APPLYING FOR FUNDS TO DO INVASIVE SPECIES REMOVAL OR NATURALIZATION PROJECTS.
SO THAT'S ABOUT $20,000 A YEAR THAT THE TOWNSHIP BOARD PROVIDES THE ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSION TO SPREAD SEED MONEY AROUND THE CAMP AROUND THE TOWNSHIP. AND AT THE SAME TIME, THE BOARD PROVIDES FUNDING FOR MORE DIRECT, LARGER PROJECTS TO ACHIEVE CLIMATE SUSTAINABILITY PLAN OBJECTIVES.
AND STAFF ARE PROPOSING A POTENTIAL PROJECT ON THE WEST SIDE OF LAKE LANSING IN A PARK THAT SEES FLOODING. SO FLOOD MITIGATION NATURALIZATION PROJECT.
SO I SAW THIS WEEKEND ONE OF THE I CALLED HIM THE GRANDFATHER OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSION.
HE WAS ACTUALLY CHAIR OF THE WETLANDS REVIEW BOARD, WHICH MORPHED INTO THE ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSION YEARS AGO, AND IT'S A FAR DIFFERENT SITUATION AT THE MOMENT THAT THERE ARE ACTUAL FUNDS THAT WE CAN DISTRIBUTE AND GET WONDERFUL PROJECTS GOING. SO THAT'S GREAT. WHAT'S THE AVERAGE GRANT THAT YOU GIVE TO A SCHOOL OR A COMMUNITY OR NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION? LIKE IF IT'S $20,000 A YEAR? THIS TIME IT WAS AVERAGED ABOUT $3,500.
THE AWARDS RANGE FROM $1,000 TO $5,000, $7,000.
SORRY. OKAY. THANK YOU. WOW. AND THERE'S ALWAYS A MAJOR CONTRIBUTION BY THE REQUESTING ORGANIZATION, ALWAYS IN LABOR AND OFTENTIMES IN MATERIALS AS WELL.
SO. THAT A REQUIREMENT OF THE APPLICATION OR JUST? IT'S STRONGLY SUGGESTED. DO YOU END UP WITH MORE DEMAND THAN YOU HAVE FUNDS TO GIVE OR DOES IT BALANCE OUT.
SO WE'RE GETTING THERE. WE'RE GETTING THERE AND IT'S GOING TO BECOME MORE, COMPETITIVE, I THINK, AND HOPEFULLY THAT'LL CONVINCE THE BOARD TO FIND ADDITIONAL FUNDS.
OH, APRIL 26TH IS THE NEXT RECYCLING EVENT AT MERIDIAN MALL.
OH, GOOD TO KNOW. AT THE MALL. AT THE FARMERS MARKET. I BELIEVE YOU.
IT'S ON THE TOWNSHIP WEBSITE. DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT, BUT THEY'LL BE DOING ELECTRONICS AND STUFF SPRING CLEANING? YEAH. AND IF YOU'VE GOT A COUPLE HOURS TO SPARE ON THAT MORNING GO TO THE TOWNSHIP WEBSITE AND SIGN UP FOR A SHIFT DIRECTING TRAFFIC.
I THINK WE'RE OUT OF TOWN ON THAT DAY. THAT MORNING, PEOPLE ARE RUNNING FOR THE EXITS.
NO, NO, I MIGHT HAVE TO, LIKE, SKIP A BIRTHDAY PARTY TO GO TO RECYCLE OUR ELECTRONICS.
OKAY. THANK YOU. ANYTHING ELSE FROM ANYONE ELSE? ALL RIGHT. RIGHT. PROJECT UPDATES. DO YOU HAVE ANY PROJECT UPDATES FOR US? NO UPDATE TODAY. OKAY. PUBLIC REMARKS. I DON'T SEE ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO GIVE PUBLIC REMARKS.
[01:15:01]
ANY ADDITIONAL COMMISSIONER COMMENTS? I HAVE ONE, PLEASE.[13. COMMISSIONER COMMENTS]
I'M JUST CURIOUS IF ANYBODY HAS THOUGHTS ON THIS.SO DO WE EVER CONSIDER OR THINK ABOUT LIKE IN THE SO IN THE STAFF ANALYSIS ON PAGE 18 FOR THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT 25007. OKAY.
YEAH. AND THEN QUESTION FOUR IS THE PROJECT WILL NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT OR BE HAZARDOUS TO EXISTING NEIGHBORING USES? AND WHEN I THINK ABOUT THE CAR WASHES OR ANY SORT OF IT'S ALMOST LIKE IT IS A COMMERCIAL USE, BUT IT'S ALMOST LIKE IT ALSO HAS AN INDUSTRIAL EFFECT IN SOME WAYS.
AND, AND I THINK ABOUT THOSE TWO QUESTIONS, AND I THINK ABOUT THE TOWNSHIP AND WHERE OUR AQUIFER IS, BUT ALSO JUST WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE VILLAGE OF OKEMOS RIGHT NOW AND WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO WITH THOSE PLACES.
I JUST WONDER THE LIKE, ARE THOSE TWO QUESTIONS FAIR CONSIDERATION FOR ANOTHER CAR WASH, LIKE ESPECIALLY OF THIS SIZE? LIKE, I KNOW IT'S RELATIVELY SMALL, BUT IT'S A 2.4 ACRE SITE.
IT'S RIGHT AROUND ALL THESE OTHER THINGS. LIKE IS THERE? IS THERE A LIKE WHEN IS THE CONSEQUENCE OF THAT? AND IF THERE IS A CONSEQUENCE OF THAT IN THE GROUND, DO WE CONSIDER THAT IN THIS PROCESS? IF I MAY, I DON'T HAVE AN EXPLANATION FOR THAT, BUT I DO.
WHEN WE WERE, WHEN I WAS ON THE ON THE BOARD, THE SAME ISSUE CAME UP AND I EVEN I RAISED THE SAME CONCERN TO BECAUSE OF THE MARIJUANA FACILITY THAT WAS GOING UP ON JOLLY ROAD.
SO WHAT IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN WHAT WHAT WAS EXPLAINED TO, TO US WAS WHEN THEY DID THEIR MARKETING RESEARCH OR WHAT HAVE YOU.
I'M GOING TO MESS IT UP. I'M GOING TO DO MY BEST THAT IT DID NOT SHOW ANY EVIDENCE OF HOW I KNOW THIS IS DIFFERENT FROM A CAR WASH, BUT THE SAME PRINCIPLE APPLIES.
IT DOESN'T SHOW ANY ADVERSE EFFECT ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
THERE WAS SOMETHING ABOUT A RADIUS THAT WAS USED.
AND IT DIDN'T AFFECT THE NEIGHBORING, LIKE THE NEIGHBORHOODS OR THE BUSINESSES AROUND IT BECAUSE OF, YOU KNOW, THE THERE'S A ONE MILE, I FORGET WHAT THE I FORGET THE ONE MILE, WHAT THE ONE MILE RADIUS OF MARIJUANA APPLICATION IS.
BUT THERE'S A ONE MILE SOME WE LOOK AT STUFF WITHIN ONE MILE.
I FORGET WHAT IT IS THOUGH. YEAH, I REMEMBER IT'S A TEMP.
I DON'T REMEMBER. I HAVE TO LOOK THAT UP. I THINK HE USED THAT TO TO KIND OF EXPLAIN WHY THIS, LIKE, THIS WASN'T IN VIOLATION OR IT WASN'T IN VIOLATION OF THIS.
SO I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THAT HELPS, BUT.
ANALYSIS THE PROJECT LIKE THIS ANALYSIS THAT'S DONE THESE I THINK IT'S WHAT NINE FACTORS.
WHERE DO THESE NINE FACTORS OR SO COME FROM? THE ZONING ORDINANCE ZONING ORDINANCE OKAY.
SO IT COMES FROM THE ZONING ORDINANCE. HAVE YOU EVER WRITTEN UP OR SEEN WRITTEN UP A PROJECT WHERE YOU OR STAFF AVERRED THAT A PROJECT WOULD ADVERSELY AFFECT THE, OR BE HAZARDOUS TO THE EXISTING NEIGHBORING USES.
I HAVE NOT DONE THAT IN SINCE I'VE BEGUN WITH MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP.
I HAVE DONE THAT. OKAY. I'M NOT AT ALL GOING TO GET SPECIFIC ABOUT WHAT I'M ABOUT TO SAY.
[01:20:02]
YEAH, I HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS ABOUT A POTENTIAL DEVELOPMENT ON A VACANT PARCEL WHERE I COULD EASILY SEE WRITING A NEGATIVE STATEMENT FOR ONE OF THESE CRITERIA'S IF THEY PURSUE WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT PURSUING.OKAY. SO CAN WE CAN WE [INAUDIBLE] YOU'VE ALSO WORKED IN HOWELL, RIGHT? YOU SAID I DIDN'T. I WORKED LIVINGSTON COUNTY.
I SPENT TIME BATH TOWNSHIP, SIX YEARS IN KENTUCKY, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT PLACES.
NO. IF. IF WE LOOK THROUGH YOUR RECORDS IN OTHER PLACES OF EMPLOYMENT, HAVE YOU EVER WRITTEN DOWN FOR NUMBER FOUR HERE THAT A PROJECT WOULD ADVERSELY AFFECT OR DOES OR DOES? DO YOU TIP AN APPLICANT OFF THAT YOU MIGHT WRITE THAT AND IT TENDS TO CHANGE THEIR DIRECTION.
SO DO YOU ANSWER THE FIRST PART SECOND PART. YEAH.
I TELL APPLICANTS BEFORE THEY APPLY, COME SIT DOWN WITH US.
THEY THEY DID. THEY SAT DOWN WITH KEITH, AND THAT REALLY HELPED.
IT SAVES A LOT OF HEADACHES TO A LOT OF PEOPLE.
I WOULD PROBABLY SO IF YOU WENT BACK AND LOOKED, I PROBABLY DIDN'T WRITE SOMETHING AS OVERT AS SAYING WE SHOULD DENY THIS ON THE FACE OF IT. BUT THIS IS A CONCERN AND THIS IS WHY, AND THIS IS SOMETHING TO CONSIDER, IS A VERY, VERY VALID STATEMENT.
THIS PARTICULAR LOOKING AT THIS AND AND SINCE WE'RE SINCE WE'RE THIS SHOULD THIS SHOULD PROBABLY BE WORDED SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINES OF INFORMATION AVAILABLE TO STAFF DOES NOT INDICATE ANY DETRIMENTAL EFFECTS.
THIS WILL BE RESEARCHED MORE FULLY DURING SITE PLAN REVIEW.
I THINK MORE OF WHAT I'M FISHING IS TO HEAR LIKE, OKAY, I ONCE FOUND THAT A PROJECT WOULD ADVERSELY AFFECT THE NEIGHBORING USES AND THAT PROJECT WAS, I DON'T KNOW, A FREE RANGE COYOTE FARM IN A, IN A IN THE MIDDLE OF A SUBDIVISION.
RIGHT. THAT IS THAT WOULD BE VERY DETRIMENTAL.
YES. RIGHT. LIKE HOW ABSURD DOES SOMETHING HAVE TO GET TO VIOLATE NUMBER FOUR? WE'VE HAD INSTANCES WHERE STAFF HAVE RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS.
WE'VE HAD, YES, SITUATIONS WHERE COMMISSIONERS HAVE DECIDED THAT SOMETHING WAS ADVERSE.
AND I CAN RECALL INSTANCES WHERE FENCING OR LANDSCAPING SCREENING WAS REQUIRED BECAUSE IT WAS LOOKED LIKE IT WAS GOING TO BE ADVERSELY AFFECTING THE NEIGHBORS UNLESS YOU SHIELDED THEM FROM WHATEVER IT IS THAT YOU'RE BUILDING.
SO YEAH, BUT IF THE STAFF BRING US A, A STAFF REPORT SAYS, YEAH, THEY'RE INSISTING ON APPLYING.
THEY TOLD THEM THEY DIDN'T MEET THIS CRITERIA, BUT THEY THEY WANT TO FIGHT IT OUT WITH YOU.
SO WE EVEN KNOW WHEN THAT TRIPWIRE HITS. THAT'S THE THAT'S THE PROBLEM ISN'T IT.
THESE ARE VERY SUBJECTIVE STATEMENTS AREN'T THEY.
ALSO IT CHANGES WITH THE CONTEXT. SURE WE'VE GOT WE GOT C2 PROPERTIES WHERE IT'S BEEN NOTED.
YOU CAN DO A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR FOR A CAR WASH ADJACENT TO RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES.
THAT CHANGES THAT PICTURE BECAUSE THIS IS NOT SURROUNDED BY RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES. CORRECT.
THAT WOULD CHANGE THAT MEANING THE INTERPRETATION OF QUESTION FOUR.
YES. MAYBE THEN WE ARE SAYING WE NEED ADDITIONAL SCREENING.
MAYBE THEN WE ARE SAYING, YOU KNOW, AND THEN IF AND THEN YOU GET INTO A SITUATION WHERE WE DON'T WANT TO PUT IN ANY ADDITIONAL SCREENING, THEN YOU GUYS CAN SAY, WELL, THEN WE DON'T HAVE TO APPROVE YOUR SUP.
CORRECT. BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE TO APPROVE YOUR SUP. YEAH.
SO I'VE BEEN ON THIS BOARD FOR, GOSH, IT'S BEEN ABOUT 6 OR 7 YEARS NOW, I THINK.
AND IT WASN'T UNUSUAL THERE FOR THE DEVELOPMENT THERE IT'S VERY, VERY DIFFERENT THAN IN THE TOWNSHIP, JUST BECAUSE OF THE TYPES OF LAND USE THAT THEY HAVE IN THE PROPERTIES THAT THEY HAVE AVAILABLE. BUT WE WOULD HAVE STAFF, YOU KNOW, SHARE CONCERNS, AND THEY DID A DIFFERENT TYPE OF REVIEW WHERE DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS WITHIN THE I THINK YOU AGGREGATE TOWNSHIP RESPONSES, BUT THEY WOULD HAVE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT AND THE TRAFFIC AND EVERYBODY COME IN SEPARATELY WITH WITH REVIEW AND DIFFERENT CONCERNS AND, AND SOMETIMES THEY WERE THERE. AND THEN WE ALSO HAD A LONG TIME MEMBER OF THE BOARD WHO REALLY, REALLY LIKED BUFFERING. AND SO WE WOULD OFTEN PUT CONDITIONS ON PROPERTY.
AND BECAUSE OF THE WAY THEY WERE DOING INFILL AND EXISTING SITES, THERE WAS OFTEN A NEED FOR MORE LANDSCAPING OR MORE THINGS TO MITIGATE POSSIBLE AFFECTING SURROUNDING COMMUNITIES.
[01:25:05]
SO I THINK IF WE IF WE EVER GET TO A POINT AND ESPECIALLY SOMETHING LIKE THIS WITH A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, THAT IS WITHIN OUR PURVIEW TO SUGGEST THOSE, AND IF WE EVER THOUGHT THAT IT WAS NECESSARY, I WOULD LIKE TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO AT LEAST RAISE IT.IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING. IT WAS NICE BEING ABLE TO COUNT ON THAT MEMBER TO BE THE BUFFERING PERSON.
SO I NEVER HAD TO THINK ABOUT IT BECAUSE HE DID.
SO, YOU KNOW, AND I CAN ALWAYS COUNT ON COMMISSIONER MCCONNELL TO TALK ABOUT ALTERNATIVE TRANSPORTATION AND BICYCLE PARKING AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT, THAT HELP WITH PATHWAYS AND REDUCING VEHICULAR TRAFFIC.
BUT BUT IF ANYBODY WANTS TO BE KNOWN AS THE BUFFER PERSON OR THE WHATEVER, I APPRECIATE THOSE PERSPECTIVES BECAUSE IT'S NOT ALWAYS SOMETHING THAT I WOULD IMMEDIATELY THINK OF, BUT QUITE OFTEN IT'S A REALLY GOOD SUGGESTION.
SO IF YOU HAVE THOUGHTS OR QUESTIONS ON FUTURE DECISIONS WE'RE MAKING, WELL DON'T HESITATE.
AND SPACE MAXIMIZATION. BECAUSE THE THE THING THAT I WORRY ABOUT IN THIS CASE IS JUST WHAT DOES THIS TURN INTO NEXT? LIKE THERE'S, WE KNOW THAT THERE'S A GROWING MOVEMENT OF HEDGE FUNDS WHO ARE BUYING PROPERTIES AND THEN PUTTING CAR WASHES ON THIS IS PUBLIC RECORD.
IT'S IT'S IN THE NEWS. AND SO WHAT I WANT TO AVOID IS THAT HAPPENING IN MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP.
AND IT'S AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT THAT IS HAPPENING HERE.
IT'S JUST SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT. BUT THE OTHER THING HERE IS THAT WE DO HAVE LIMITED DEVELOPABLE SPACE, DEVELOPABLE SPACE AND A CAR WASH CREATES A DIFFERENT OUTCOME FOR A PIECE OF PROPERTY THAN DOES AN OUTBACK STEAKHOUSE THAT'S SITTING THERE STILL.
THAT'S A GREAT POINT. WOULD THE OPEN SPACE SHOWN IN THIS APPLICATION BECOME PROTECTED OPEN SPACE? WOULD WOULD THAT GREEN SPACE BE UNDEVELOPABLE.
COULD IT BE COULD IT BE. IN THE FUTURE COULD IT BE.
I DON'T I STILL I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS EXACTLY, BUT.
IT MEANS THEY CAN'T BUILD ON TOP OF IT BECAUSE THERE'S A WATER MAIN UNDERNEATH IT.
SO A WATER MAIN. WELL, THE DRAIN EASEMENT MEANS THAT THERE MIGHT NOT BE ANYTHING ON TOP OF IT, BUT THE DRAIN COMMISSIONER WON'T LET YOU BUILD IN IT BECAUSE THEY MAINTAIN THAT AS RIGHT OF ACCESS.
RIGHT. I DON'T KNOW THE SPECIFICS OF WHERE THOSE ARE ON THAT SITE, BUT THERE, THERE, THERE THERE ARE A LOT OF THEM, RIGHT? TO ANSWER THE QUESTION, COULD YOU I THINK THAT WOULD BE REALLY I THINK THAT WOULD BE PROBLEMATIC TO THE POINT THAT I DON'T THINK YOU COULD. I MEAN, YOU'RE APPROVING THIS WITH A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF GREEN SPACE.
I SAY THAT WITH THE KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT HAPPENED TO TIDAL WAVE ON THIS SITE. LIKE THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GET THE DRAIN COMMISSION APPROVAL. I DON'T THINK THIS SITE COULD HANDLE TWO, TWO DEVELOPMENTS ON IT. TIDAL WAVES IDEA OF SPLITTING THAT PROPERTY.
I DON'T THINK IT WOULD HAPPEN IN SUCH A SMALL SPACE.
I WONDER TOO, LIKE I THINK MAYBE TO THE POINT LIKE THESE CAN BE SUBJECTIVE.
SO. SO THE ONE POINT I'D LIKE TO MAKE ABOUT THAT IS THAT WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THESE DIFFERENT STANDARDS FOR ISSUING A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, EVEN THOUGH THEY CAN BE SUBJECTIVE, THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE WEIGHING IN.
YOU'VE GOT THE STAFF ANALYSIS, THERE'S US, THERE'S THE BOARD, THERE'S THE PUBLIC.
WE'RE GETTING COMMENTARY AND MORE INFORMATION FROM THE APPLICANT, LIKE THERE'S JUST A DELUGE OF INFORMATION COMING IN TO INFORM WHAT IS A SUBJECTIVE, SOME SOMEWHAT SUBJECTIVE STANDARD. SO LIKE I FEEL OKAY ABOUT THAT.
BUT SO, SO BUT THEN PROBABLY MORE TO THAT QUESTION OF LIKE, WHAT DO WE WANT LONG TERM? I THINK THAT INSTEAD OF TURNING TO THESE NARROWLY FOCUSED YET SUBJECTIVE INDICATORS OF WHETHER OR NOT TO GIVE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, MAYBE WHAT WE SHOULD TURN ATTENTION TO IS LIKE, WHAT DOES THE ORDINANCE SAY AND DOES MAYBE COMMERCIAL TWO MAYBE
[01:30:06]
SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR A CAR WASH IN COMMERCIAL TWO IS SOMETHING THAT REALLY IS PROBABLY NEVER GOING TO GET APPROVED ANYWAY, SO SHOULDN'T BE IN THE ORDINANCE. SO WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS INSTEAD OF FOCUSING IN ON THIS, MAYBE THE FOCUS NEEDS TO BE MORE ON WHAT IS EXISTING IN THE CURRENT ORDINANCE, AND DOES THAT FULLY ALIGN WITH THE LONG TERM VISION? BECAUSE I COULD SEE A CASE FOR POTENTIALLY EDITING THAT OUT AMENDING ORDINANCE TO NOT INCLUDE A CAR WASH IN COMMERCIAL TOO, BUT LIMITING IT TO COMMERCIAL THREE. IT'D HAVE TO BE OBVIOUSLY A LONGER TERM DISCUSSION, BUT IT JUST SEEMS TO ME LIKE THAT'S KIND OF MORE WHAT YOU'RE MAYBE GETTING AT.YOU ARE CORRECT. AND THE OTHER THING, TOO, I FEEL LIKE I USED TO HAVE A BETTER SENSE OF AND I THINK SOME OF IT IS JUST THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT ARE STALLED AND SORT OF WAITING FOR MOMENTUM TO PICK UP.
BUT I USED TO PERIODICALLY WE WOULD GET AN UPDATE FROM THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT MANAGER AND WE WOULD HEAR OR THE WHOEVER WAS WORKING IN THAT SPACE AND WOULD HEAR SORT OF WHAT WAS WHERE THEY WERE GOING, WHAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR, AND THE VARIOUS CORRIDOR.
AND SPECIAL SPECIALTY AREA. I'M BLANKING ON THE TERM, BUT WE HAD A SENSE OF WHAT THAT WAS BECAUSE I THINK THEN WE WE HEAR THE VISION, WE DID THE MASTER PLAN, AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT, AND WE KNOW WHAT WE'D IDEALLY LIKE TO SEE HAPPEN IN VARIOUS PARTS OF THE TOWNSHIP AND WHERE THINGS ARE DEVELOPABLE. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT. BUT IF THERE'S EVER A MEETING WHERE WE DON'T HAVE A FULL AGENDA AND IT WORKS FOR YOU OR SOMEONE ELSE TO SHARE MORE ABOUT, KIND OF WHERE THINGS ARE GOING IN TERMS OF THE VISION FOR THE TOWNSHIP.
THAT MIGHT BE HELPFUL TO US TO HELP ALIGN WHAT WE DO.
WHAT WOULD THAT BE ACCEPTABLE TO YOU IN LIKE THE FORM OF A, LIKE A COMMUNICATION? LIKE HERE'S AN OVERVIEW OF, YOU KNOW, TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION, WHICH I THINK WOULD BE A KIND OF AN EASY ASK, LIKE MAYBE GIVE ME LET ME LOOK INTO IT. DEFINITELY THAT, AND EVEN BETTER, IF IT'S POSSIBLE TO HAVE SOMEBODY HERE WHERE IF WE HAD QUESTIONS, WE COULD ASK THEM. YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT TO TAX SOMEBODY'S ALREADY BUSY SCHEDULE, BUT SO A WRITTEN A WRITTEN UPDATE WOULD BE GREAT.
AND THEN MAYBE IF WE HAVE MORE QUESTIONS AND THINK IT'S WORTH IT, WE COULD.
I WILL BRING IT UP TO DIRECTOR SCHMITT IF I COULD TACK ON TO THAT TOO.
I PERSONALLY BE INTERESTED IN HEARING ABOUT WHO IS COMING TO TO THE TOWNSHIP WITH INQUIRIES ABOUT.
WE'D LIKE TO SET UP SHOP HERE.
NOT EVEN, BUT NOT EVEN LIKE A SPECIFIC COMPANY, BUT LIKE TYPES OF BUSINESSES.
YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE TYPE OF INTEREST THAT WE'RE SEEING.
WELL, I THINK YOU CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION. WHAT ARE YOU SEEING? YOU'RE SEEING CAR WASHES AND YOU'RE SEEING STORAGE UNITS. WELL, THE MARIJUANA IS MARIJUANA.
AND MARIJUANA. THAT NECESSARILY TRANSLATES, THOUGH, TO WHO MIGHT BE COMING HERE WITH INTEREST.
THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDED DENIAL OF THAT, AND THE TOWNSHIP BOARD DENIED IT.
THAT WAS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. WELL, SO HERE'S A THAT WENT TO THE BOARD BECAUSE IT WAS OVER 25,000FT² IN SIZE, THAT THAT WAS. LOOKING AT KIND OF THE THINGS THAT I PERSONALLY SEE AS VIBRANT DEVELOPMENTS.
IT'S, YOU KNOW, SMALL SHOPS AND RESTAURANTS AND, AND SORT OF THE THINGS THAT MAKE A THRIVING, YOU KNOW, STORAGE UNIT IS NICE AND A CAR WASH IS NICE.
AND SO MAYBE IT'S MORE WHAT IS OUR WHAT IS OUR WHAT ARE OUR EFFORTS TO MARKET TO THOSE OR HELP GROW AND INVEST IN THAT KIND OF THING. AND AND WHAT ARE THE BARRIERS THAT THEY'RE SEEING? I KNOW WE HAD THE ONE RESTAURANT THAT TOOK A LONG TIME TO OPEN, AND WAS THERE ANYTHING THAT THE TOWNSHIP COULD HAVE DONE, OR THAT THAT WASN'T A PLANNING COMMISSION. THAT WAS THAT WAS ON THEM.
THEY TOOK A LONG TIME TO GET THEIR BUILDING PERMITS. AND I KNOW THERE WAS SOME EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES THERE, AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY'RE DOING REALLY WELL NOW, SO I'M HAPPY TO HEAR THAT. BUT ARE THERE THINGS THAT EITHER FROM A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE OR AS JUST COMMUNITY MEMBERS WHO ARE INTERESTED, PERSPECTIVE. ARE THERE THINGS WE COULD DO TO HELP IN THE ATTRACTION OF THE KIND OF COMMUNITY BUILDING BUSINESSES THAT I THINK WE ALL SAY WE WANT TO HAVE WHEN WE AND THERE MAY NOT BE. I MEAN, FROM A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE, THERE MAY NOT BE ANYTHING WE CAN DO, BUT IF THERE IS, I'D LIKE TO BE A PART OF THAT GROWTH AND SEE WHAT WE CAN DO TO HELP.
I'M SORRY. I'M JUST GOING TO SAY AT THE END OF THE DAY, THOUGH, I MEAN, I GET IT. WE CAN LIKE FINAGLE OUR POLICY AND SEE HOW WE CAN MAKE IT, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE VISION AND ALL THAT STUFF.
[01:35:02]
BUT COMPETITION IS COMPETITION. AND SO YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET SEVEN CAR WASHES BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL NOT GOING TO, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER COMPANY COMES IN AND SAYS, OH NO, THAT MARKET SHARE IS ALREADY TAKEN.SO JUST LIKE YOU CAN ONLY HAVE SO MANY COFFEE HOUSES, YOU DON'T HAVE TOO MANY RESTAURANTS. THAT'S THE REASON WHY OUTBACK CLOSED, BECAUSE THERE'S, YOU KNOW, THE MARKET DIDN'T CALL FOR ANOTHER OUTBACK OR AN OUTBACK.
I MEAN, SO COMPETITION. WELL, I MEAN, BUT YEAH, I REMEMBER WE USED TO HAVE THAT THAT HINT I FORGET THE NAME OF THAT RESTAURANT, AND THAT WAS A BANK THAT'S OVER THERE NOW. AND THEY JUST CLOSED THE ONE THAT'S ON THE GRAND RIVER.
I WISH JERRY WAS HERE. HE KNEW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
IT WAS LIKE AN OLD RESTAURANT THERE. OH. PAUL REVERE'S.
IT WAS WHEREVER THAT. IT'S A BANK NOW. LIKE HOBBY LOBBY.
NO, NO NO, NO. BY NEAR WALGREENS IF YOU GO A LITTLE BIT FURTHER UP WEST.
IT WAS A IT WAS A, IT WAS A RESTAURANT THERE CALLED SOMETHING HINT.
AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY OUT OF BUSINESS BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T, YOU KNOW, CUSTOMERS WEREN'T COMING.
YEAH. SO, I MEAN, MY POINT IS MARKET SHARE IS ALSO GOING TO DRIVE WHO COMES HERE AND ALL THAT STUFF.
SO I THINK YOUR COFFEEHOUSE THEORY IS BEING TESTED THOUGH, BECAUSE THERE'S ABOUT A BAJILLION COFFEEHOUSES NOW BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, STARBUCKS AND MOCHA AND CO AND AND WHEN I DRIVE BY SOME OF THOSE, I'M NOT GOING TO NAME NAMES, BUT THE LOTS ARE EMPTY. SOMETIMES THE LOTS ARE NOT EMPTY, BUT A LOT OF TIMES, MEANING THE PARKING LOTS.
SO HOW HOW OFTEN ARE PEOPLE GOING TO ALL THESE DIFFERENT TYPE OF BUSINESSES? I THINK MARKET SHARE IS, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT THE MARKET AND WHO'S GOING TO THESE TYPE OF BUSINESSES, ESPECIALLY POST COVID, WHERE FOLKS ARE USED TO DOORDASH AND ALL THAT KIND OF THING.
YEAH. WHAT THAT ALSO DRIVES IT, ALONG WITH WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING IN TERMS OF WHAT'S OUR VISION.
HOW CAN WE SET POLICY? HOW CAN WE HELP? I JUST WANT TO ADD ANOTHER LAYER.
THE RENT? YEAH. THAT WHOLE. THAT'S WHAT THEY SAID.
YEAH, IT IS, IT SEEMS. WHAT'S THE RIGHT WORD I WANT TO USE? MY WIFE IS CLOSE WITH ART UNLIMITED, AND, I MEAN, IT SEEMS TO BE COORDINATED.
HOW ABOUT THAT? YEAH, I GOT YOU. YEAH, IT SEEMS TO BE COORDINATED.
SO AN INTERESTING POINT, THOUGH. ART UNLIMITED IS MOVING THAI RESTAURANT IS CLOSING.
RIGHT. SO THAT'S. YES, WE'RE GETTING TOBACCO SHOPS.
I DO HAVE ONE FOLLOW UP COMMENT TO EVERYONE'S POINTS, WHICH I THINK ARE ALL VALID.
AND I DO THINK THAT THERE'S MARKET FORCES THAT ARE AT PLAY, BOTH LOCAL, IN WHICH PEOPLE GO TO CERTAIN BUSINESSES, I THINK THAT HAPPENS. AND I TO THAT POINT, I THINK THAT WE HAVE A GREAT COMMUNITY THAT IS THRIVING, THANKFULLY, AND THAT WE HAVE LIKE 14 DIFFERENT GROCERY STORES WITHIN A TWO MILE RADIUS, AND SOMEHOW WE CAN SUPPORT ALL OF THEM.
WE LITERALLY LIVE IN AN AMAZING COMMUNITY WITH ALL OF THIS.
AND SO WHEN I THINK ABOUT THAT, IT'S LIKE THE THERE ARE MARKET FORCES.
AND IF A BIG BUSINESS WANTS TO COME IN HERE, THEY'RE GOING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO THAT.
SO HOW DO WE SUPPORT THE EDGE THAT WE WANT THAT ALIGNS WITH THE MASTER PLAN.
SO I THINK WHEN WE COME BACK TO COMMISSIONER SNYDER'S POINT ABOUT POTENTIALLY CHANGING THE ORDINANCE, I, FOR ONE, WOULD BE OPEN TO THINKING ABOUT THE ORDINANCE.
NOT NOT ONLY THAT, WE POTENTIALLY CHANGE WHAT CAN GO INTO WHAT COMMERCIAL ZONES.
BUT ALSO WOULD BE OPEN TO CONSIDERING ARE THERE DO WE ALTER THE ZONING? I'M I KNOW I'M GOING TO BUTCHER THE WORD HERE, BUT WHAT I MEAN IS OUR MAP.
FUTURE LAND USE. FUTURE LAND USE MAP WHERE WE SAY WE WOULD THIS IS A DESIGNATED AREA FOR THIS.
AND WE SAY, LOOK, CAR WASHES, THAT'S IT OR WHATEVER.
THE THING IS THAT WE CARE ABOUT. BECAUSE THE ONLY WAY THAT I FEEL LIKE WHAT I'VE EXPERIENCED HERE TO DO THAT IS TO COMMISSIONER SNYDER'S POINT IS ACTUALLY TO CHANGE THE ORDINANCE. THE QUESTIONS HERE ARE SUBJECTIVE IN NATURE, AND SO WE COULD ARGUE IN MANY CASES BOTH DIRECTIONS, BUT IN GENERAL, SAYING SOMETHING THAT ADVERSELY AFFECTS OR IS HAZARDOUS TO EXISTING NEIGHBOR USES.
[01:40:06]
YEAH. I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH THAT, BUT THE ORDINANCE.BUT TO COME BACK TO THE MARKET FORCES, THERE ARE LOCAL MARKET FORCES, AND THERE ARE ALSO EXTERNAL MARKET FORCES WHERE LARGE PLACES THAT HAVE LOTS OF RESOURCES ARE LOOKING TO STUFF THOSE RESOURCES.
AND MY SUSPICION IS THAT IF YOU OWN A PROPERTY IN MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP FOR TWO YEARS AND THEN DECIDE TO SELL IT TWO YEARS LATER, IT PROBABLY INCREASED IN VALUE PRETTY SUBSTANTIALLY CONSIDERING WE HAD A ECONOMIC DOWNTURN IN 2022 AND THEN IT WAS 2023, AND NOW WE'RE IN 2025. BUT THAT'S JUST MY PERSPECTIVE.
IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING A LOT OF THE THE STUFF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WITH THE LARGER FORCES AT PLAY.
MY MY PERSONAL CONCERN SO MAYBE THIS IS JUST WHERE MY INTEREST IS, AND THIS IS WHAT I NOTICE MOST IS MORE ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH RESIDENTIAL REAL ESTATE. YES. BUT ARE YOU SAYING THAT THIS IS.
AND OF COURSE, I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED BY THIS, BUT IS IT AS BIG OF A CONCERN AND ISSUE WITH COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE AS WELL? I MY OPINION THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION, BUT I WOULD SAY THAT IT IS BECAUSE OF COVID COLLAPSED COMMERCIAL RATES OR COMMERCIAL PROPERTY VALUES, RIGHT? THEN THEY GET SNAPPED UP OVER TIME AND THEN WE'LL SLOWLY GET ROLLED OUT AS THOSE VALUES INCREASE.
SO ON THAT TOPIC SPECIFIC TO RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES THAT COULD BE, YOU KNOW, PURCHASED UP IN LARGE SWATHS BY LARGER ORGANIZATIONS AND RENT IT OUT. DO WE LIKE DO WE HAVE A QUOTA FOR HOW MANY RENTAL PERMITS WE WILL ISSUE A YEAR? LIKE BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE THAT WOULD BE PERHAPS A CAP, A PREVENTATIVE MEASURE OF SORTS, BUT WE DO NOT YEAH, I AM TOO. NOR DOES THE ZONING ORDINANCE MAKE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN WHETHER A HOUSE IS RENTED OR SOLD.
RIGHT. SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES, A SINGLE FAMILY HOUSE? SURE. NO, I UNDERSTAND THAT PART. I'M JUST ASKING ABOUT, LIKE, IF YOU WANTED TO BE PROACTIVE ABOUT PROTECTING FROM AN INFLUX OF LARGER ENTITIES, JUST. I MEAN, HONESTLY, SCOOPING UP A VERY LARGE NUMBER OF RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES, WHICH IS WHAT'S HAPPENING AND THEN HOLDING THEM FOR AN EXTENSIVE PERIOD OF TIME AND ONLY, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ONLY HAVE ACCESS TO RENTALS, YOU KNOW.
BEING ABLE TO PURCHASE A HOME IN MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP IS CHALLENGING FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.
SO MY POINT BEING, A STOPGAP MEASURE COULD POTENTIALLY BE HAVING A CAP ON THE NUMBER OF RENTAL PERMITS THAT ARE ISSUED WITHIN THE TOWNSHIP FOR RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES.
THAT'S WHAT I'M GETTING AT. BECAUSE THERE I MEAN, THE CITY OF EAST LANSING HAS A CAP OR REGULATES THE NUMBER. THEY WON'T. IT'S DIFFICULT TO GET A LANDLORD LICENSE IN EAST LANSING.
I WILL LOOK, I WILL ASK THE QUESTION. I KNOW WE ARE IN NO POSITION TO BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT IT RIGHT NOW, BUT I CAN ASK THAT QUESTION. ONE OF THOSE THINGS TO ADD TO OUR PRIORITIES LIST FOR THE NEXT TIME WE DEVELOP IT.
WELL, I WILL NOTE THAT AT YOUR NEXT MEETING. I WAS GOING TO KEEP GOING WITH THE PARKING DISCUSSION AND BRING UP LANDSCAPING, BECAUSE I THINK THAT WAS THE NEXT THING YOU WANTED TO TALK ABOUT. IS THAT STILL THE NEXT THING YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT, OR DO YOU WANT ME TO BRING UP SOMETHING ELSE? BECAUSE IF YOU START TALKING ABOUT COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS, THAT'S A BIG DISCUSSION.
BUT IT ALSO ALIGNS WITH A MASTER PLAN GOAL OF CONSOLIDATING OUR COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS.
I'M SORRY. WHY DON'T WE ALL GET THE MASTER PLAN CALLS TO CONSOLIDATE? THERE IS A COMMERCIAL DISTRICT, IF I REMEMBER RIGHT, THERE'S A MASTER PLAN GOAL TO LOOK AT.
AND I THOUGHT. I THOUGHT THAT MAYBE MAYBE NOT CONSOLIDATE.
BUT I THINK I FEEL LIKE THAT WAS SPURRED BY LIKE THE AUTO DEALERSHIPS.
ANOTHER EXAMPLE ACTUALLY. IT'S FUNNY YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE BIG BATTLES.
GOOD. TRUCKING IS MOVING OUT OF TOWN. IT'S GOING TO MOVE TO OLD TOWN IN LANSING, RIGHT?
[01:45:03]
WHAT GETS GOOD TRUCKING OUT HERE? SO MY CONCERN, THOUGH, THOUGH, IS THAT IF WE DON'T DO THIS, THEN THERE ARE FEWER PLACES FOR THOSE SMALLER BUSINESSES.RIGHT. I MEAN, LIKE, YOU CAN ARGUE, TANTE, BUT THAT'S THAT'S REALLY.
THAT'S GRAB AND GO. YEAH. YOU ORDER AHEAD. YOU CAN SIT THERE.
RIGHT? SAME THING WITH THE WING SHOP DOWN THERE, RIGHT? LIKE THE LAST I'M GOING TO THE LESS MATERIAL ONE I CAN THINK OF THAT KIND OF FITS MY SCHEMA. HERE IS ANNA'S HOUSE. YOU KNOW, I MEAN, ALTHOUGH ARGUABLY IT'S A CHAIN.
IT'S A CHAIN WITH A HOMETOWN FEEL. OKAY, FINE.
BUT, LIKE, YOU KNOW, CREOLE CLOSED. RIGHT? WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO GET CREOLE HERE? I WOULD EAT AT CREOLE. I TRUST THEM. WE NEED SOMETHING TO INCENTIVIZE START UP RESTAURANTS. YOU NEED, LIKE, AN INCUBATOR OR LIKE A HUB.
WE WERE JUST IN PHILADELPHIA, AND THEY HAVE THE COOLEST MARKET.
READY? READY. YEAH, THAT WAS HAPPEN ON SUNDAY AFTERNOON.
IT'S BEEN LIKE THAT FOR YEARS. YEAH, RIGHT. YOU KNOW, BUT THERE WERE, LIKE, LINES OUT THE DOOR, AND WE'RE NOT PHILADELPHIA, DON'T GET ME WRONG. BUT MAYBE IT'S A CONCENTRATION OF PLACES SO THAT YOU THE RENT IS SHARED AND THE, THE CONCEPT IS SORT OF ALMOST LIKE FOOD TRUCK COURT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
YOU'RE KIND OF YOU'RE KIND OF BUYING INTO WHAT A NEIGHBORHOOD CENTER DOES, TOO, RIGHT? YEAH, EXACTLY. THAT COULD BE A LONG CONVERSATION, TOO. I KNOW I HAVEN'T HAD DINNER YET, SO. OKAY. I THINK WE HAVE LOTS TO TALK ABOUT.
AND I THINK MAYBE IF YOU HAVE IDEAS OF THINGS THAT WE WANT THE STAFF TO KIND OF FOCUS ON OR BRING TO US TO KIND OF HELP SPUR WHAT WE SEE AND WHAT WE TALK ABOUT NEXT. SHARE IT WITH HIM. SHARE IT WITH ME AND WE CAN.
WHAT YOU HAVE PLANNED FOR NOW, UNLESS YOU'RE READY TO BRING SOMETHING ELSE.
BRING WHAT YOU HAD. BUT THEN, IF PEOPLE WOULD THINK ABOUT OTHER THINGS THAT YOU MIGHT WANT TO ADD TO THAT AGENDA FOR THE DISCUSSIONS THAT WE HAVE AND THE THINGS THAT WE LOOK AT IN, IN FUTURE MEETINGS, GIVE THEM SOME HEADS UP. SO WE'RE NOT DUMPING THINGS ON YOU LAST MINUTE, BUT THAT'S OKAY. JUST TO BE CLEAR, I SAY THINGS, I GET IT, NOT EXPECTING TO HAVE IMMEDIATE ANSWERS TO THE THINGS THAT I AM SAYING, I'M JUST SAYING THEM.
CAN I ECHO THAT? LIKE I SEE THINGS AND THEY ARE CONCERNING AND YEAH, JUST WHAT'S NEXT? HOW? YEAH. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I MOVE TO ADJOURN.
THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. THANK YOU.
WE ARE ADJOURNED AT 8:17.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.