[00:01:15]
MIC]. [INAUDIBLE]. F IRST WEEK OF OCTOBER.
OKAY. YEAH. [INAUDIBLE]. I HAVEN'T SEEN HIM IN YEARS.
NICE TO MEET YOU TOO. [INAUDIBLE].
ACTUALLY THE THIRD ONE. DOES NOT.
WELL, OF COURSE, MY FIRST TWO ARE TWINS, SO I GOT [INAUDIBLE].
IT WAS SO EASY AFTER HAVING HAD TWO.
HE WAS A REALLY EASY KID TOO, SO IT WAS REALLY NICE.
LIKE, EVERYONE I KNOW, LIKE THEIR FIRST ONE IS EASY, THEIR SECOND ONE IS CHALLENGING OR VICE VERSA.
YOU DON'T USUALLY GET TWO REALLY CHALLENGING ONES.
BUT ALL THAT SAID, THERE ARE MOMENTS.
I MEAN, YOURS ARE STILL LITTLE.
[INAUDIBLE]. YEAH, IT'S JUST HARD.
LIKE, DON'T YOU WONDER WHAT YOU DID WITH ALL OF YOUR SPARE TIME BEFORE YOU HAD KIDS? I WASTED IT.
YEAH. YOU READY? YOU ARE READY TO GO WHEN YOU ARE.
[1. CALL MEETING TO ORDER]
REGULAR MEETING TO ORDER AT 6:32.FIRST ON THE AGENDA IS ROLL CALL.
GOOD. NEXT ON THE AGENDA IS PUBLIC REMARKS.
I KNOW YOU'RE HERE FOR THE THING THAT'S ON THE AGENDA.
UNFINISHED BUSINESS. SO SHE'D HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY.
GOT IT. SO, NOBODY HERE TO DO PUBLIC REMARKS.
LET'S TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA, PLEASE.
[4. APPROVAL OF AGENDA]
I MOVE TO APPROVE THE AGENDA FOR TONIGHT.SECOND BY COMMISSIONER SNYDER SAID IT FIRST.
ALL IN FAVOR? ANY DISCUSSION ON THAT? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE, AYE.
ANY OPPOSED? THE AGENDA IS APPROVED AS PRESENTED.
LET'S SEE. APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES OF THE OCTOBER 28TH, 2024 MEETING.
[5. APPROVAL OF MINUTES]
IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE THOSE MINUTES? SO MOVE. COMMISSIONER.OKAY. COMMISSIONER RAUTENBACH, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER BLUMER.
ANY DISCUSSION ON THE MINUTES? OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR OF APPROVING THE MINUTES AS SHARED.
ANY OPPOSED? OKAY. MINUTES ARE APPROVED AND COMMUNICATIONS.
[6. COMMUNICATIONS]
BUT WE DID GET ONE IN LATE.DO YOU WANT TO TALK TO US ABOUT WHAT IT IS OR YOU WANT ME TO?
[00:05:03]
THAT IS AN EMAIL FROM NEIL GALEHOUSE.HE IS AN ENGINEER WITH THE INGHAM COUNTY ROAD DEPARTMENT.
DIRECTOR SCHMITT AND I HAD AN OUTLOOK MEETING WITH HIM LATE THURSDAY AFTERNOON.
HE SENT COMMENTS THE NEXT DAY AND I GOT THOSE OUT WHEN I RETURNED TO THE OFFICE.
THANK YOU AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE UNDER UNFINISHED BUSINESS.
NOW WE'RE ON TO 7A PUBLIC HEARINGS.
[8.A. SUP #24025 – Panda Express Drive-through]
SO YOU HAD THE PUBLIC HEARING ON THIS TWO WEEKS AGO, AND MOST OF THE CONVERSATION REVOLVED AROUND TRAFFIC AND THE TRAFFIC STUDY.THAT WAS THE TRAFFIC ASSESSMENT THAT WAS PROVIDED.
INGHAM COUNTY DRAIN COMMISSION TOO, BUT THE INGHAM COUNTY ROAD DEPARTMENT DID RESPOND.
AS YOU HEARD ME, JUST DESCRIBE TO CHAIR SHREWSBURY, DIRECTOR SCHMITT AND I HAD AN OUTLOOK MEETING WITH NEIL GALEHOUSE FROM THE INGHAM COUNTY ROAD DEPARTMENT LATE THURSDAY, AND WE GOT THE COMMENTS THAT YOU SEE IN FRONT OF YOU.
THEY ARE CONCERNED THAT TRAFFIC MAY BACK UP ONTO MARSH ROAD.
THE APP I'VE SENT THOSE COMMENTS TO THE APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATIVE.
SHE IS HERE TONIGHT AND CAN SPEAK FURTHER IF YOU HAVE FURTHER QUESTIONS.
WE ALL NEED TIME TO DIGEST THIS.
SO YOU DO HAVE A RESOLUTION TO APPROVE IN YOUR PACKET.
WE ARE ASKING THAT YOU JUST POSTPONE THAT ACTION FOR A MONTH.
LET PANDA EXPRESS SEE IF THEY WANT TO MAKE ANY CHANGES TO THE SITE, AND JUST SEE WHAT FALLS OUT OF THIS. OKAY.
ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF ON WHAT YOU JUST HEARD? COMMISSIONER SCALES. SO WHAT WILL BE OUR NEXT STEP? WE WILL BRING THIS BACK ON DECEMBER 9TH.
IF THERE ARE CHANGES MADE, THE APPLICANT WILL SEND THEM TO ME.
I'LL LET YOU KNOW WHAT CHANGES HAVE BEEN MADE IN RESPONSE TO THE COMMENTS AND THEN YOU'LL BE, I'LL UPDATE THE RESOLUTION TO APPROVE AND I'LL PUT THAT IN THE PACKET AT THAT TIME.
SO MY QUESTION WOULD BE IF SOME CHANGES ARE MADE, ARE WE REQUIRED TO HOLD ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING BASED ON THE CHANGES? THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
YOU ARE NOT REQUIRED TO HOLD ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING IF IT'S SITE CHANGES.
THE REASON WE'RE HANDLING IT LIKE THIS.
IF THEY WERE TO GET TO SITE PLAN AND THEN THE SITE STARTS.
REMEMBER I SAID IF THEY GET TO SITE PLAN AND THEY START MAKING CHANGES TO THE CONFIGURATION BECAUSE THE SITE BECAUSE THE PLAN IS ATTACHED TO THE SUP THAT BECOMES PART OF THAT WHOLE APPLICATION.
YOU DO NOT NEED ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING.
THANK YOU. THAT WAS A GOOD QUESTION.
THAT WAS ONE I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT TOO.
SO THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER MCCONNELL. SO THE DIGESTION IS THAT WE'RE SPEAKING OF IS STAFF AND APPLICANT TRYING TO FIND A WORK THINKING THROUGH THE ACCESS DRIVE? AND THAT WOULD KIND OF BECOME THEN THE TOPIC OF OUR DISCUSSION.
WHEN WHAT? DURING THE APPROVAL PROCESS ON DECEMBER 9TH OR WHENEVER IT HAPPENS.
THAT IS THE STICKING POINT AT THIS POINT, YES.
THE ROAD COMMISSION HAS JURISDICTION OVER MARSH AND THEN DOES SO DOES THE TOWNSHIP HAVE JURISDICTION FULLY OVER THE ACCESS ROAD? IT'S NOT THE TOWNSHIP THAT HAS JURISDICTION.
[00:10:04]
THEY'RE ON PRIVATE PROPERTY.OH, SO THE ACCESS ROAD IS ALL PRIVATE PROPERTY.
GO AHEAD. I'M GOING TO BRING THE SITE UP WHILE YOU.
I GUESS MY THE QUESTION FROM THAT IS.
IF THEY REDID PART OF THEIR PLAN SO THAT THEY WERE ADJUSTING THE ACCESS ROAD USES. THAT WOULD BE WITHIN.
THAT WOULD BE AN AGREEMENT AMONG THE PROPERTY OWNERS, RIGHT? RIGHT. THAT WOULD REMOVE ANY PARTICIPATION THAT WE WOULD HAVE WITHIN THAT, WORK AT LEAST.
SO LIKE IF THEY CHANGED THEIR PLAN SO THAT THEY ONLY WERE MODIFYING THE ACCESS ROAD AND THEN HAD NO IMPACT ON MARSH ROAD, IS THAT A POSSIBILITY HERE? IT IS A POSSIBILITY I IF YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT ACCESS AGREEMENTS, THAT'S SOME RESEARCH THAT WE'D HAVE TO DO.
OKAY. I JUST WAS THAT'S WHAT THIS LED ME TO THINK ABOUT.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S RELEVANT.
DO WE KNOW IF THERE ARE EASEMENTS? I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE EASEMENTS.
NO, BECAUSE THE PROPERTY BEHIND THAT SERVED BY THE TO THE EAST.
WELL, THAT IS CORRECT AND THIS IS NOT PROPOSED.
I'M SORRY. I MEAN, THAT ONE AT LEAST MUST BE SHARED SOMEHOW, RIGHT? I WOULD ASSUME SO AND THIS IS NOT PROPOSED TO BE CLOSED.
THIS THE PLAN WAS TO NOT UTILIZE WAS TO UTILIZE THIS FRONT, THOUGH.
BUT THIS WASN'T. THIS ISN'T GOING TO BE.
THIS ISN'T PROPOSED TO BE CLOSED BY ANY MEANS AT THE MOMENT.
WE CAN'T CLOSE ACCESS TO KELLY'S CONSIGNMENT.
JUST STRIKES ME AS DIFFICULT? THAT TRAFFIC WOULD EVEN BLEED INTO MARSH ROAD.
BECAUSE IF I REMEMBER THE DRAWINGS RIGHT, THERE WAS 22 CARS THAT COULD BE IN THERE.
CAN YOU SCROLL DOWN A LITTLE BIT, BRIAN? SORRY. MR. SCROLL ON THIS PAGE.
SAY, WHEN? OH, IT GOES BACK THERE BEHIND THE FEDEX.
IT'S REAL. THIS IS THE TYPICAL MOVEMENT YOU GET ON THIS AND HEAD NORTH ON THE SERVICE DRIVE UNTIL YOU COME TO THIS ACCESS, WHICH IS FAR EASIER TO GET OUT, EVEN THOUGH IT DOESN'T HAVE A LIGHT AND THAT SO THAT WHOLE.
WELL, NEITHER DOES NEITHER DOES THAT.
BUT I DISAGREE THAT'S NOT THE TYPICAL MOVE THERE BECAUSE THERE ARE MAJOR SPEED BUMPS IN THERE NOW.
I KNOW THERE ARE. [INAUDIBLE].
I'M NOT SAYING IT'S THE MAJOR MOVEMENT, BUT IT IS.
HOLD IT RIGHT THERE. HERE'S THE MOVE.
GETTING OUT OF THERE RIGHT NOW SINCE OUTBACK IS CLOSED AND THAT IS GOING SOUTH AND COMING OUT, RIGHT? YEP, TOO FAR AND COMING OUT RIGHT AT THE TURN TO THE WEST.
HERE. YES AND YOU CAN GET OUT AND YOU CAN MAKE A RIGHT WITHOUT ANY INTERRUPTION.
AND YOU'LL GET OUT OF THERE FASTER THAN THE TRAFFIC THAT'S TRYING TO GET OUT.
YEAH. BECAUSE THE TRAFFIC LIGHT WILL STOP THE TRAFFIC FOR YOU.
SO THAT'S THE NORMAL MOVE OF GETTING OUT OF THERE FOR PEOPLE THAT NOW YOU KNOW NOBODY AND I DO.
SO WHAT WE'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT IS THE IMPACT OF AN ADDITIONAL DRIVE THROUGH ON THAT TRAFFIC.
I MEAN, IT IS BAD AND WE DON'T WANT TO CONTRIBUTE TO MAKING IT WORSE.
BUT I DON'T WANT THIS APPLICANT TO BE, YOU KNOW, SUFFER BECAUSE WE HAVE DIFFICULT TRAFFIC.
[00:15:01]
THAT IS TRUE AND ALL OF THIS IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE BECAUSE THE CAR WASH THAT'S GOING IN TO THE SOUTH, WE'RE LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW IS WHERE THE CAR WASH IS SUPPOSEDLY THERE.THE OUTBACK SITE HAS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT APPROVED FOR A CAR WASH.
THEY HAVE BEEN TIED UP BEHIND THE SCENES ON THEIR SITE.
WE'VE BEEN CONTACTED BY 1 OR 2 OTHER COMPANIES INTERESTED IN PURCHASING IT AND DOING A DIFFERENT CAR WASH, BUT DON'T KNOW WHY THAT SITE SPECIFICALLY IS ATTRACTING CAR WASHES.
BUT WE MIGHT EVEN GET A SEAFOOD RESTAURANT THERE.
SO OKAY, SO I JUST HAVE ONE FOLLOW UP.
SO I AGREE THAT THIS IS ABOUT THE DRIVE THROUGH FOR THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
MY QUESTIONS WERE MEANT TO I THOUGHT THAT PART OF THAT EXCESS ROAD ACCESS ROAD WAS GOING TO HAVE TO BE REDEVELOPED SLIGHTLY AND SO I JUST WANTED TO RAISE THAT IN CONSIDERATION OF WHATEVER THE NEXT STEPS ARE.
I AM GOING TO BRING UP A PACKET TO LOOK AT THE PLAN.
YEAH. OKAY. SO THAT'S WHY I WAS DOING IT.
I DIDN'T WANT US TO RETHINK THAT ENTIRE CORRIDOR.
IT'S NOT THAT I DIDN'T THINK THEY WERE GOOD POINTS OR ANYTHING.
OKAY, I AGREE THAT INTERSECTION IS AN ISSUE.
SO THIS IS WHAT PANDA IS PROPOSING.
I CAN'T MOVE IT. SO IT'S NOT REALLY THEIR SITE WOULD BE CLOSED OFF FROM.
THIS REAR ACCESS UNDER THIS PLAN.
THEY WOULD USE THE FRONT ACCESS ENTIRELY.
BUT MAYBE THERE'S SOME REMODELING OF THAT DRIVE.
YEAH, THERE'S AN EASEMENT RIGHT HERE.
[INAUDIBLE]. WOULD YOU COME UP? SORRY. IS IT OKAY TO USE THE MOUSE? YEAH. OKAY. PERFECT.
LANEY [INAUDIBLE] WITH HEIGHTS VENTURE ARCHITECTS.
REPRESENTATIVE FOR PANDA EXPRESS ON THIS PROJECT.
SO COMING OFF THE EXISTING SIDEWALK OFF OF MARSH ROAD, CUTTING THROUGH THAT GREEN SPACE WITH AN ADA APPROVED RAMP THAT COMES DOWN TO THE STREET WITH A CROSSWALK AND THEN RAMPS BACK UP TO THEN MEET JUST BEHIND WHERE SOME OF OUR PARKING BICYCLE PARKING WOULD BE AND THEN CONTINUING THAT ACCESS ALL THE WAY TO OUR BUILDING PAD AT BOTH OF THOSE ACCESS DRIVES ARE OUR CURRENT EASEMENTS IN PLACE? I THINK THERE ARE, I WANT TO SAY SEVEN ALL TOGETHER, THREE OF THEM AT THE NORTH, ONE DEALING WITH INGRESS AND EGRESS.
MAIN REASON WHY WE'RE NOT CHANGING IT.
ANOTHER ONE DEALING WITH UTILITY ACCESS FOR DRAINAGE TO THE EASTERN DETENTION POND THAT IS OWNED BY KOHL'S. AND THE THIRD ONE IS ANOTHER TYPE OF UTILITY ACCESS.
THAT'S WHY WE'RE NOT PUTTING ANY PERMANENT STRUCTURES WITHIN THAT AREA.
IT ACTUALLY KIND OF EXTENDS PAST THE ROAD ITSELF AND INTO OUR GREEN SPACE.
SO THAT'S ALSO KIND OF WHY WE'VE PUSHED OUR GREEN SPACE FURTHER THAN WHAT WE'RE REQUIRED TO BY CODE AND THEN FOR THIS DRIVE TO OUR WEST, I BELIEVE THERE ARE THREE EASEMENTS IN PLACE AS WELL, ONE BEING INGRESS AND EGRESS, 2 OR 3 POSSIBLY DEALING WITH UTILITY.
SO REALLY WE KEPT IF YOU GO TO I'M SO SORRY.
THIS ONE WE DID STAY WITHIN THIS GREEN SPACE.
GREEN SPACE WITH THE DETENTION AT THE SOUTH AND THEN MEETING BACK UP AT THIS WESTERN GREEN SPACE.
WE DID NOT EXTEND ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF THAT OTHER THAN THAT PEDESTRIAN WALK ACCESS.
[00:20:02]
THANK YOU. [INAUDIBLE].I HAVE ONE, BUT GO AHEAD. SO, MR. SHORKEY, AS I'M LOOKING AT RELOOKING AT THEIR PLANS, IT SEEING THE DIRECTION OF THE CARS THAT ARE GOING THROUGH THE DRIVE THROUGH.
SO THEY'RE GOING COUNTERCLOCKWISE.
BUT IF THE CARS HAVE TO GO ALL THE WAY AROUND THE BUILDING BEFORE THEY BEGIN TO LINE UP, IT SEEMS LIKE THAT WOULD AT LEAST MITIGATE A BIT THE POTENTIAL FOR BACKUP ON THIS SITE.
COULD YOU CONFIRM WITH THEM THAT THEY AGREE WITH THAT WHEN YOU'RE TALKING TO THEM, OR IF THAT'S THEIR CONCERN IS THE, YOU KNOW, IF THEY WERE COMING INTO THAT FOUR WAY AND TURNING IMMEDIATELY ONTO THE SITE AND GOING CLOCKWISE AROUND IT FOR THE DRIVE THROUGH, I COULD SEE THAT THERE COULD BE MORE BACKUP ON THE LITTLE PIECE OF THE SERVICE ROAD, BUT BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO CIRCLE THE BUILDING AND COME AROUND UP AND AROUND, IT SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD BE LESS LIKELY TO.
YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE A LOT OF CARS THERE BEFORE YOU'D SEE A BACKUP.
YEAH, I CAN SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
THEY HAVE TO COME ALL THE WAY AROUND TO GET BACK INTO THE BEGINNING OF THE DRIVE THROUGH.
BECAUSE DO NOTE THEY DO AGREE WITH THE RIGHT HAND TAPER.
CONCLUSION FROM THE TRAFFIC ASSESSMENT.
OKAY AND I CAN GET SOME MORE SPECIFICS ON WHAT THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT.
OKAY. IT SAYS THOROUGH REVIEW OF ON SITE TRAFFIC AND TRAFFIC CIRCULATION.
IS THAT I'M DOING A QUICK LOOK AT IT.
BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE EXPERTS AGREE WITH ME.
GO AHEAD, COMMISSIONER BROOKS.
THANK YOU. I GUESS I YOU I THINK YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU THAT YOU WEREN'T MODIFYING THE EAST, WEST ROAD.
BUT THERE WAS AN ENTRANCE THAT YOU'RE CLOSING OFF TO THAT LOCATION.
I'LL LET. I THINK IT'S YOUR QUESTION.
LET'S SEE. UNLESS I'M JUST CONFUSED.
OKAY. ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT SORRY, I STILL CAN'T SEE THE MOUSE.
RIGHT. I KNOW, SO I'M SAYING, ISN'T THAT GETTING CLOSED OFF, THOUGH? YEAH. WHICH, I MEAN, THAT'S ALL ON OUR PRIVATE PROPERTY AND RIGHT NOW, IT WAS PREVIOUSLY USED FOR WHEN THIS WAS A BANK FOR THEIR DRIVE THROUGH EXIT THEN GO LEFT TOWARDS MARSH ROAD.
I MEAN, TYPICALLY RIGHT NOW THAT'S A ONE WAY.
SO NO ONE COULD ENTER IN ON THE SITE FOR THE JEWELRY STORE AND TURN DOWN THIS ROAD.
SO I GUESS MY QUESTION IS IF WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT THE TRAFFIC GOING OUT TO MARSH ROAD FROM THAT THE NORTH SOUTH ACCESS ROAD TURNING LEFT ONTO THE EAST WEST ACCESS ROAD AND THEN ONTO MARSH.
CAN WE JUST CLOSE THAT ENTRANCE? THAT'S THERE. RIGHT THERE WHERE YOUR MOUSE WAS AT JUST A SECOND AGO? RIGHT HERE. LEFT, RIGHT.
SO IS IT POSSIBLE TO CLOSE THAT SO THAT THEN THERE'S.
I MEAN, ISN'T THAT HOW DO YOU GET OUT? YEAH. YOU BLOCK THEM OUT? YEAH.
RIGHT NOW WE'RE ALSO KEEPING THAT ONE.
HOW'S THAT? I MEAN, MAY I RESTATE YOUR QUESTION? YES. YOU CAN PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT WOULD THE CURRENT SETUP OF THE EXIT FROM THE OLD BANK WORK? YEAH. TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM THAT THE ROAD DEPARTMENT SEEMS TO BE COMMISSIONER MCCONNELL.
IF IT WEREN'T FOR YOUR PRESERVATION OF YOUR DETENTION POND IN GREEN SPACE.
BECAUSE IT ALLOWS MORE STACKING ON THAT EAST WEST ACCESS ROAD TO AVOID CLOGGING MARSH ROAD.
IS THAT WHERE YOU'RE [INAUDIBLE].
[00:25:03]
YES. OKAY.THEN THEY'RE BLOCKING SOME MOVEMENT OFF OF MARSH ROAD.
I DON'T KNOW, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THE YEAH, THE CURRENT LAYOUT OF THE SITE CHANGES THE FLOW OF TRAFFIC A LOT AND ESPECIALLY IF YOU CLOSE THAT SORT OF NORTHWEST CORNER ACCESS THEN YOUR CHANCES OF CLOGGING THAT FOUR LEGGED INTERSECTION ARE DECREASED.
I DON'T KNOW. AGAIN, I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR EXPERTS IN TRAFFIC CIRCULATION GIVE US THEIR THOUGHTS ON THESE THINGS PERSONALLY. LOTS TO THINK ABOUT AND YOU ANTICIPATE, MR. SHORKEY, THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION IN MORE DETAIL WITH EITHER THE ROAD COMMISSION AND OR THE APPLICANT OR THE THEY'LL TALK WITH ONE ANOTHER THAT BY THE TIME WE MEET IN DECEMBER, I EXPECT MORE INFORMATION.
YEAH, I EXPECT THEY'LL BE TALKING.
I JUST HAD A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
WILL THE CARS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING STILL BE GETTING SERVICE FROM THE BUILDING WHERE I SEE THE LAST CAR.
YEAH, I BELIEVE I'M ON THE EAST SIDE IS ORDERING, AND ON THE NORTH SIDE IS PICKUP.
RIGHT? ARE THEY NOT PICKING UP RIGHT HERE? LOOKS LIKE THE WINDOWS AT THE END.
I'M TALKING TO THE YOUNG LADY.
GO AHEAD. WHERE ARE THEY PICKING UP? LET ME ASK THE VERY LAST CAR THAT'S TOWARDS THE NORTHWEST CORNER.
SO WE DON'T WANT TO CLOSE THAT OFF.
NOT WITH THE RESTAURANT IN THAT ORIENTATION.
IS THIS THE PICKUP POINT? IT'S RIGHT HERE.
THEY NEED TO COME OUT RIGHT HERE, IF I MAY.
MY POINT WAS THAT THE CURRENT SETUP FOR THE BANK IS IN A DIFFERENT ORIENTATION THAT ALLOWS THAT CURRENT ACCESS DRIVE TO BE USEFUL BY ROTATING THE BUILDING 90 DEGREES SO THAT THE PICKUP IS.
I DIDN'T HEAR THE PART ABOUT ROTATING THE BUILDING.
OKAY. THAT'S I THINK THE SOLUTION TO.
WELL, I THINK REPLICATING THE DISTINCTION TOO, IS THAT A BANK TYPICALLY HAS JUST ONE WINDOW WHERE YOU GO AND DO YOUR BUSINESS AND LEAVE, WHEREAS A DRIVE THROUGH RESTAURANT QUITE OFTEN HAS TWO WINDOWS, ONE WHERE YOU ORDER AND THEN THE OTHER WHERE YOU ACTUALLY PICK UP AND IT LOOKS LIKE THAT MIGHT BE THE DESIGN HERE.
I REMEMBER WHAT THAT BUILDING USED TO BE AND THE PERSON THAT USED TO OWN IT AND AT THAT TIME, THAT BUILDING WAS FIRST CONSIDERED A MALL, AND I WORKED WITH HER TO GET THAT DISTINCTION CLEARED OFF THE BOOKS.
BUT THE WAY IT WAS SET UP AND WHAT SHE WAS PLANNING TO DO THAT WAS CONSIDERED A MALL AND THAT HAD A WHOLE LOT OF OTHER RAMIFICATIONS TO THIS ROAD THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AND THEN I HEARD YOU SAY THAT ROAD NORTH IS ONE WAY, THAT EAST WEST ROAD NORTH OF THE BUILDING IS ONE WAY.
NO, THE ROAD BACK HERE, THE OWNER TOLD US THAT IT'S REALLY JUST SINCE THIS WAS PREVIOUSLY USED FOR THE BANK DRIVE THROUGH, IT'S GOT IT'S ALL ONE WAY BACK HERE.
[00:30:01]
THAT DRIVE THROUGH AREA.OKAY. SO WHAT I WAS JUST TRYING TO GET AT IS, EVEN RIGHT NOW, I WOULD ASSUME PEOPLE ARE NOT COMING DOWN THIS ROAD AND THEN TURNING DOWN BEHIND THE BUILDING TO GET TO THE BUILDING.
NO, THAT'S NOT OCCURRING UNLESS THEY'RE LOOKING TO STEAL SOME OLD BANK VAULT.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR THINGS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE CLARITY ON THE NEXT TIME THIS COMES BEFORE US? OKAY. I THINK WE'RE AS GOOD AS WE'RE GOING TO BE FOR TONIGHT THEN AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
I JUST SO WE HEARD A DISCUSSION ABOUT TURNING THE BUILDING.
IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE AMICABLE ABOUT? I DON'T THINK OUR CLIENT WOULD BE TOO INTO THAT CONCEPT.
WE TRIED THAT WITH THEM TRYING TO KEEP THE NEW GROUND UP BUILDING, KIND OF IN THE LOCATION WHERE THE CURRENT BUILDING IS, AND IT CAUSES A LOT OF VISIBILITY ISSUES AT MARSH ROAD TO WHERE YOU REALLY WOULDN'T EVEN KNOW.
A PANDA EXPRESS IS THERE UNTIL YOU'RE TOO CLOSE TO TURN, AND THEN YOU MISS US AND MARSH ROAD BEING AS BUSY AS IT IS, WHO'S GOING TO TURN AROUND TO THEN TRY TO COME BACK TO US? SO WE WANTED TO AT LEAST TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT COMPARED TO THE FEDEX TO OUR NORTH, THAT WE HAD SOME VISIBILITY CHANCE RIGHT THERE OFF OF MARSH ROAD AND I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION.
THEY WILL COME AFTER OURS, MOST LIKELY BEFORE 10AM.
THEY'D COME DOWN THE SHARED DRIVE AISLE AND THEN ONTO OUR SITE BACK HERE, AND WE'VE MADE THIS PORTION LARGE ENOUGH TO WHERE THEY CAN ACTUALLY SWING AND GET IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING FOR ANY DROP OFF.
SO YOU'RE GOING TO PUT A ROAD BACK HERE FOR THEM ON THE SOUTH, A ROAD.
THEY'RE JUST USING THE PARKING LOT. YEAH.
THEY'D JUST BE CIRCLING AROUND OUR PROPOSED DRIVE AISLES ON THE SITE, AND THEN PARKING WITHIN THE DRIVE AISLE NEXT TO THE BUILDING TO THEN DELIVER IS MOST LIKELY THEY'LL USE THE ADA RAMP TO THEN RAMP UP ONTO THE BUILDING PAD AND COME BACK BEHIND THE BUILDING AT THAT EMPLOYEE ACCESS ONLY DOOR.
CAN YOU SHOW ME THAT ON THE OTHER DRAWING, PLEASE? THE ON THE GOOGLE MAPS ON THE CURRENT MAP.
WE'RE KEEPING THIS OPENING WHERE IT IS.
WE'RE KEEPING THIS OPENING WHERE IT IS.
BUT THIS IS SO THE TRUCK WOULD LIKELY COME IN HERE.
THIS WOULD BE OUR PROPOSED DRIVE AISLE.
THEY'D COME UP THIS WAY AND THEN IN FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.
THANK YOU. AND AGAIN, THAT WOULD ALL BE AFTER HOURS.
THEY WOULDN'T BE COMING IN DURING OPERATIONAL HOURS AT ALL.
ANYTHING ELSE? COMMISSIONER? I JUST FEEL THE NEED TO CORRECT MY RECORD.
I THINK I SAID THERE WAS 22 CARS OR 17 CARS IN THAT DESIGN, AND STILL NOT MORE THAN HALFWAY TO THE ENTRY ROAD WITH 17 CARS IN LINE TO GET FOOD.
YEAH, WE HAVE WELL OVER I THINK IT WAS LIKE 875 TO ALMOST 900FT OF TOTAL STACKING BETWEEN THE ORDER BOARDS AND BOTH DRIVE THRU LANES BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY HIT TO OVERFLOW ONTO THIS SHARED ACCESS DRIVE.
THE INTERESTING COMPARISON I WOULD ALMOST THINK OF IS THERE'S A STARBUCKS OVER IN EASTWOOD, RIGHT? WITH ALMOST LIKE A SIMILAR SETUP THERE IN THAT BUILDING AND IT'S LIKE I'VE GONE THROUGH THE COFFEE BEFORE IN THE HEIGHT OF IT, AND THAT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE IT ALL THE WAY AND THAT'S STARBUCKS LIKE, NO OFFENSE TO PANDA EXPRESS, BUT STARBUCKS HAS A LINE RIGHT AT ANY AND ALL TIMES, RIGHT? 17 CARS.
THAT'S A LOT OF CARS TO BE IN A DRIVE THROUGH.
AS I'M RELOOKING, IF YOU SCROLL IT DOWN JUST A SMIDGE OTHER WAY, LIKE TOWARDS THE INTERSECTION IN QUESTION, I WONDER IF MORE OF THE CONCERN IS NOT IN THE ENTERING TRAFFIC, BUT IN THE EXITING TRAFFIC AS THERE ARE CARS, BUT THAT WOULDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE CUTOUT ON MARSH ROAD OR TRAFFIC COMING OFF OF MARSH ROAD. THIS WOULD BE PEOPLE COMING OUT AND TRYING TO TURN LEFT TO GET BACK ONTO MARSH ROAD, AND HOW IT MIGHT BE TRICKY FOR THEM.
[00:35:02]
THAT'S WHERE IT MIGHT BACK UP IS HERE.YOU KNOW, THAT IS THE CONFIGURATION THERE.
YEAH, IT IS CURRENTLY A TRICKY.
SO ANYWAY, IF YOU'RE MAKING A LEFT AND I THINK IT'S JUST THE ADDED VOLUME, THE DIFFERENTIAL BETWEEN A RESTAURANT WITH A DRIVE THROUGH AS OPPOSED TO A JEWELRY STORE AND JUST THAT THERE IS MORE TRAFFIC.
SO THANK YOU AND WE'LL LOOK FORWARD TO WHAT COMES TO US NEXT TIME.
ANYTHING ELSE? RESTRICTING THIS TO A RIGHT HAND TURN WOULD WORK A LOT OF WONDERS, BUT WHERE WOULD THEY GO? IT'S EASY. WHEN YOU COME OUT OF THERE, YOU YOU GO NORTH AND THEN YOU CAN EASILY GET FROM THERE EITHER TO GO WEST OR EAST AT THE LIGHT.
RIGHT? BUT YOU STILL HAVE TO CROSS OVER THE ENTERING TRAFFIC ON THAT SERVICE ROAD.
THERE'S NOT A LOT OF SPACE RIGHT HERE.
YEAH. IT'S LIKE ENOUGH FOR TWO CARS.
SO YOU'RE WAITING HERE TO THEN WAIT AGAIN TO TURN ONTO MARSH.
SOUTH. I DON'T, I'M YEAH I WILL.
SO I GUESS I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING HERE.
YEAH. WHAT I'M SAYING IS WHEN YOU EXIT ONTO MARSH, YOU HAVE TO TURN RIGHT.
I'M JUST MISUNDERSTANDING ON THIS SITE.
NO OPTION TO TURN LEFT ON MARSH.
JUST TURN RIGHT AND YOU CAN GO WHEREVER YOU NEED TO GO.
THAT BE LIKE A ROAD COMMISSION DECISION, THOUGH, RIGHT? NOT OURS.
THEY WOULD HAVE TO AGREE TO A RIGHT TURN.
THAT'S CORRECT. THAT COULD HELP WITH THE BACKING UP.
I CAN SEE IF THEY'RE OPEN TO THAT.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GUYS ARE, BUT I CAN ASK THEM.
CERTAINLY. THAT'S THE CONFIGURATION INTENDED FOR MYRA ON GRAND RIVER.
YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO ONLY MAKE A RIGHT TURN ON THAT PARKING LOT.
OKAY, BUT THAT GETS, YOU KNOW, [INAUDIBLE] SITE.
RIGHT. NOT TO MUDDY THE WATERS.
OH, PLEASE. THEY'RE ALREADY VERY MUDDY.
GO AHEAD. NO ONE HAS MENTIONED, THIS IS STILL OPEN AND THAT IS ANOTHER EXIT.
THIS IS PRETTY FULL, I GET THAT, BUT THAT IS ANOTHER POSSIBLE.
YOU COULD COME OUT THIS WAY INTO THE PARKING LOT AND OUT ON CENTRAL PARK.
PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS. THAT'S NOT BEING CLOSED, THOUGH.
MR. SHORKEY, IS IT A TERM OF ART? BECAUSE I'M LOOKING AT THE LETTER FROM MR. GALEHOUSE HERE DUE TO THE INCREASE IN TRAFFIC AND LACK OF STORAGE.
SO WHEN THEY USE THE TERM LACK OF STORAGE, IS THAT THE IDEA OF TWO CARS BEING PARKED IN THE SAME SPOT AT ONCE? YEAH. YOUR COMMENT ABOUT 17 CARS HERE SHOWS.
LASER POINTER SHOWS THAT THEY HAVE PLENTY OF STORAGE ON THE SITE.
THERE'S NOT A LOT OF STORAGE FOR CARS WAITING TO TURN ONTO MARSH ROAD.
YEAH, I BELIEVE THAT'S WHY THE BANK IS THE WAY IT IS.
WITH THAT DRIVE IN THE BACK IT MAKES SENSE.
THERE IS NOT ROOM FOR MORE THAN TWO CARS THERE.
SO. BUT IF MARSH ROAD IS REALLY BUSY YOU WON'T EVEN BE ABLE TO GET OUT OF THE DRIVE THROUGH.
YOU JUST GET THE PICK UP WINDOW OR YOU GO DOWN TO.
THAT'S A GOOD POINT THOUGH, BECAUSE DEPENDING ON HOW BIG THAT SPACE IS, WHERE THE CARS COME OUT AND TURN RIGHT, LIKE, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY CARS COULD FIT WAITING THERE AS THEY'RE WAITING FOR THE CARS THAT ARE IN FRONT OF THEM TO THE NORTH, TRYING TO GET ON TO MARSH.
IT COULD CAUSE BACKUPS IN THE DRIVE THROUGH.
I DON'T KNOW. IS THAT LITTLE IS THAT CONSIDERED? IS THAT THE SO IS THAT THE WORDS ARE HARD THIS LATE IN THE DAY? RIGHT NEXT TO THOSE TWO ARROWS INDICATING THAT IT'S TWO WAY TRAFFIC.
IS THAT WHAT THEY'RE CALLING A TAPER RIGHT THERE?
[00:40:01]
THAT SMALL LINE.LOOKING AT THE DRIVE THROUGH OVER AT CULVER'S, THEY HAVE SO MUCH TRAFFIC ON IT AND WATCHING HOW MANY CARS ACTUALLY MAKE IT PASS THE PICKUP LINE AND THEN TOWARDS TRAFFIC.
BY NATURE. THAT'S WHAT I'M THINKING OF THIS BUSINESS AS WELL.
IT'S VERY FEW AT A TIME THAT FINALLY GET THEIR GOODS AND ARE READY TO DRIVE OFF.
IT'S NOT LIKE THEY'RE COMING THROUGH.
HERE'S YOUR GOODS AND HERE'S YOUR GOODS AND HERE'S YOUR GOODS.
ALL THESE CARS YOU'RE GOING TO BE TAKING OFF AND LINING UP.
I'M SURE PANDA EXPRESS KNOWS HOW LONG IT TAKES THEM TO PROCESS AN ORDER.
YEAH, I GUARANTEE YOU, THEY KNOW DOWN TO THE SECOND HALF THEY DO.
THEY ALSO HAVE LIKE 40 TO 50 PARKING SPACES IN THERE.
YEAH AND THAT'S WHY I THINK GOING TO THAT I'M GOING TO LET THE APPLICANT TALK FOR A MINUTE.
SO IS THE QUESTION JUST WHAT THE AVERAGE TIME SPENT AT EACH WINDOW IS? TYPICALLY I MEAN, IT FLUCTUATES FROM, LIKE, I CAN HARDLY HEAR YOU, BUT I'M OLD.
I KIND OF FLUCTUATES FROM STORE TO STORE, BUT AT LEAST IN MY EXPERIENCE, YOU'RE ONLY THERE FOR AS LONG AS IT TAKES TO RING YOUR CARD, PAY OUT YOUR CASH, AND HAND YOU A BAG. BECAUSE WHILE YOU'RE ORDERING, THEY ACTUALLY HAVE EMPLOYEES WHO ARE PUTTING YOUR ORDER TOGETHER.
SINCE THEY DO HAVE A VERY LIMITED TYPE OF MENU, YES, IT'S GOT A VARIETY OF ENTREES AND SIDES THAT YOU CAN DO, BUT IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO A COMPARTMENTAL PACKAGING OF THOSE ITEMS THAT ARE ALREADY READY TO SERVE WHEN YOU'RE IN THE DRIVE THRU.
BUT REALLY, YOU'RE ONLY THERE FOR DEFINITELY LESS THAN 20 OR 30S.
YOU MEAN YOU'RE NOT FIXING IT FRESH? I MEAN, I'M SURE OPERATIONALLY THEY'VE GOT, LIKE, HOW LONG THEY CAN HOLD FOOD AND EVERYTHING, BUT THE GOAL WOULD BE THAT JUST LIKE WHEN YOU GO INSIDE TO HAVE OR CREATE AN ORDER, YOU'RE IN THE LINE.
SO I WOULD ALMOST ANTICIPATE THAT FROM PICKUP OR I'M SORRY, FROM ORDER POINT TO PICKUP POINT IS VERY SIMILAR TO ORDER POINT AT THE INTERIOR TO CHECK OUT POINT WITHIN THE DINE IN LINE AND THAT'S APPROXIMATELY HOW LONG? I MEAN, YOU MIGHT BE IN THE DRIVE THROUGH LANE FOR A COUPLE MINUTES, BUT ONCE YOU GET TO THAT WINDOW, IT'S VERY QUICK.
OKAY. ARE YOU IS THIS BASED ON, LIKE, ACTUALLY COMPANY DATA FROM THE STORES OR ARE YOU.
I CAN REQUEST THAT THIS IS FROM MY EXPERIENCE AND KIND OF WHAT I'VE BEEN TOLD BY OUR CLIENT, BUT I COULD REQUEST THAT DATA IF NEEDED AND IT'S A ONE WINDOW WHERE YOU'RE PAYING AND PICKING UP AT THE SAME WINDOW? YES. SO, BRIAN, IT'S INTERESTING YOU ORDER BACK AROUND, I THINK PROBABLY THE SPEAKER.
MAYBE I'M MISSING SOMETHING HERE, BUT THE BACKUP THAT WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF OCCURRING IS THAT EXCLUSIVELY AS A RESULT OF CARS MAKING THEIR WAY THROUGH THE PANDA EXPRESS, OR IS IT BECAUSE OF CARS THAT ARE ALREADY ON THAT EAST WEST? LANE. I BELIEVE HIS CONCERN.
YOU GO FROM 100 FROM 46 PEAK HOUR TRIPS TO 144 49.
AND THAT IS, HE'S ATTRIBUTING THAT TO THE DEVELOPMENT.
I WOULD PERSONALLY BE INTERESTED IN THE WAIT TIME DATA IF YOU CAN REQUEST THAT I THINK IT.
THE THICKER DARK LINE THAT YOU CAN KIND OF SEE THEM UP BY THE MARSH ACCESS POINT.
[00:45:05]
OKAY. SO IT IS JUST TO GIVE AN IDEA OF WHERE OUR PROPERTY WOULD END AND WHERE THE ROAD DEPARTMENT COMES IN.GO AHEAD. YOU JUST BROUGHT UP ANOTHER POINT.
SO WALKING THAT THROUGH 100 MORE TRIPS ON MARSH ROAD, THAT'S EITHER DIRECTION.
IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? YEAH. TRIP IS A TOTAL.
OKAY. SO AT BEST CASE, WE COULD BE ADDING 50 MORE TRIPS TO TIE HEART AND MARSH WHERE THERE IS NO LIGHT AND NO ABILITY TO GET OUT OF THAT INTERSECTION CURRENTLY WITHIN A MATTER OF A COUPLE OF MINUTES AND NOW WE'RE ADDING TO THAT.
I COULD MAKE THAT REQUEST TO THE INGHAM COUNTY ROAD DEPARTMENT, AND THAT IS OFF THE SITE.
AT WHERE? MARSH AND [INAUDIBLE].
IS THAT THE PLACE NEXT TO THE FEDEX STORE? NO, IT'S FURTHER NORTH.
FURTHER NORTH? OH, THAT'S JUST NORTH OF THE APARTMENT BUILDINGS.
IT IS NOT THAT I LIVE THERE, BUT THAT NO THROUGH EXPERIENCE IN GEORGETOWN ADDED TO THE PROBLEM AND NOW I SEE THAT WE'RE ADDING TO THE PROBLEM AGAIN.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? THOUGHTS? QUESTIONS? GOING ONCE, GOING TWICE.
I'LL BRING THIS BACK WITH AN UPDATE.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU AGAIN.
I APPRECIATE IT. IT'S A VERY GOOD DISCUSSION.
THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE EVERYBODY'S THOUGHTFULNESS.
[9.A. Off-street Parking Discussion]
OTHER BUSINESS. OFF STREET PARKING DISCUSSION.STAFF HAS BEEN WORKING ON OFF STREET.
THE ENTIRE OFF STREET PARKING ORDINANCE FOR QUITE SOME TIME.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT BOTH OF THE FULL TIME PLANNERS AND STAFF HAS WORKED ON.
PEOPLE, THE PLANNING COMMISSION, THIS IS MIRA CANARD.
SHE HAS BEEN IN OUR OFFICE FOR A MONTH OR SO, AND I SAID, WELL, YOU'RE WORKING ON THIS.
WE'RE READY TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING.
SOMETHING BEING OUR OUR SCHEDULE OF REQUIREMENTS FOR LAND USES.
THAT SEEMED LIKE A VERY GOOD POINT TO START AND SINCE SHE'S WORKING ON THIS AND THE WHOLE POINT IS TO GET HER WORK EXPERIENCE, I SAID, WHY DON'T YOU COME AND TALK ABOUT IT? SO AT THIS TIME, I'M GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO MIRA, AND I ASK YOU TO JUST BE NICE.
SO WE SHOULD TREAT HER LIKE WE TREAT, YOU KNOW, HE SAID.
BE NICE. I DO HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU BEFORE YOU BEGIN.
WOULD YOU SPECIFICALLY DEFINE OFF STREET PARKING? FROM THE FOUR WEEKS I'VE BEEN HERE? OFF STREET PARKING TO ME IS DEFINED AS I GUESS WHEN USED FOR COMMERCIAL USES OR YEAH, MAINLY FOR COMMERCIAL USES. I BELIEVE THAT IT IS A PART THAT IS SECTIONED OFF BY WHATEVER IS BEING USED, WHATEVER THAT INFRASTRUCTURE IS BEING USED FOR AND THERE'S LIKE AN EMPTY SPACE AND THAT IS USED FOR PARKING.
TODAY I'M HERE TO START A CONVERSATION ON OUR OFF STREET PARKING AND WHICH IS OUR SECTION 86 755 SCHEDULE REQUIREMENTS FOR PARKING SPACES.
AS BRIAN HAS SAID, MULTIPLE STAFF MEMBERS.
[00:50:02]
INCLUDING BRIAN KEITH, THE PREVIOUS INTERN, AND MYSELF HAVE WORKED ON LOOKING INTO NOT JUST OTHER NOT JUST MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP, BUT ALSO OTHER MUNICIPALITIES THAT HAVE ALREADY IMPLEMENTED AN OFF STREET PARKING INTO THEIR ORDINANCES. SOME INCLUDING ANN ARBOR, KALAMAZOO, TRAVERSE CITY.HOWELL, MICHIGAN. ET CETERA AND YEAH, WE I WOULD LOVE TO JUST HEAR WHAT YOU GUYS HAVE TO SAY.
IN TERMS OF OUR SCHEDULE REQUIREMENTS.
BRIAN, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO PULL THAT UP ON HERE, BUT ALL YOU NEED TO SCROLL DO IS SCROLL DOWN.
THIS IS WHAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE IN OUR ORDINANCES.
IN OUR ORDINANCE. EXCUSE ME FOR A SCHEDULE, A REQUIREMENT AND I JUST KEEP SCROLLING DOWN.
THIS IS WHAT THE STAFF HAS PROPOSED THUS FAR.
ALL RIGHT, I'LL GO FIRST, PLEASE.
HI, MAYOR. THANKS FOR TALKING TO US AND WORKING ON THIS FOR US.
THE QUESTION I WANTED TO KICK US OFF WITH IS SORT OF A PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTION AS WE WERE MAKING THESE EDITS TO OUR ORDINANCE.
WHAT WAS KIND OF DRIVING THESE CHANGES THAT WE MADE TO EACH LINE? CAN I ACTUALLY BECAUSE I HAVE MORE HISTORY ON WORKING ON THIS.
IN SOME OF IT DEPENDS ON THE LAND USE.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SOME LAND USES WE KNOW VERY WELL WE HAVE WE'RE OVER PARKED AND WE REQUIRE TOO MANY SPACES IN A LOT OF OTHER USES. WE'RE LOOKING FOR MORE MODERN, UP TO DATE DEFINITION, YOU KNOW, DEFINITIONS OF NUMBER OF REQUIRED PARKING SPACES.
SO IT DEPENDS ON WHAT EXACTLY YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
PLANNING REPORTS FROM AMERICAN PLANNING ASSOCIATION WERE LOOKED AT.
IN THE 70S, WE DIDN'T WANT TO KNOW.
IS THERE A SPECIFIC LAND USE YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT CURIOUS ABOUT? WELL, AS I WAS LOOKING THROUGH IT, I JUST WAS TRYING TO UNDERSTAND, LIKE, WHY DID WE CHANGE SPECIFIC ITEMS? BECAUSE THE I WASN'T SURE IN WHAT AREA WE MIGHT HAVE TOO MUCH PARKING ON A CONSISTENT BASIS OR WHAT AREA.
WE WERE TRYING TO MODIFY THE ZONING SO THAT WE WERE STRATEGICALLY PRIORITIZING CERTAIN THINGS AND THAT'S WHERE THAT QUESTION IS COMING FROM, IS A FUNCTION.
IF YOU LOOK RIGHT ON THE PAGE THAT YOU'RE ON AT THE TOP OF IT.
MULTI-FAMILY, RESIDENTIAL ONE AND A HALF FOR EACH EFFICIENCY OR ONE BEDROOM UNIT.
TWO FOR EACH DWELLING UNIT WITH TWO OR MORE BEDROOMS. AND THEN STRIKING OUT THAT EXPANSION CAPACITY OF 25%.
THAT, OFF THE BAT, IS A MAJOR REDUCTION IN THE REQUIRED NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES.
THAT IS PROBABLY THE BIGGEST SINGLE CHANGE IN OTHER CHANGES MAKE THE CALCULATION EASIER TO DO.
OTHER CHANGES REDUCE NUMBERS SOMEWHAT.
CAN YOU GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF THAT ONE SPECIFICALLY THEN.
LIKE WHAT DOES THAT DO AND FOR A PROPERTY I WILL GIVE A LITTLE EXAMPLE.
YOU WILL RECALL THAT WE DID A SPECIAL USE PERMIT IN HASLETT ROAD FOR THE CONVERSION OF AN OFFICE QUAD TO A MULTIFAMILY QUAD.
ONE OF THE ISSUES HE'S HAVING RIGHT NOW IS MEETING THE DEMANDS OF THE INGHAM COUNTY ROAD DEPARTMENT, THE DRAIN COMMISSION, BECAUSE HE HAS TO HAVE TEN PARKING SPACES.
UNDER THIS ORDINANCE, HE'D ONLY NEED EIGHT.
OH, INTERESTING AND SO PARKING IS SET AT THE TOWNSHIP LEVEL.
PARKING ORDINANCE IS SET AT THE TOWNSHIP LEVEL.
YES. THE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES IS.
[00:55:01]
YES. PARKING SPACES AND SO THE DRAINAGE COMMISSION AND THE ROAD COMMISSION ARE BASING THOSE REQUIREMENTS ON OUR ORDINANCE.THEY'RE NOT REQUIRING THE PARKING SPACES.
THEY'RE LOOKING AT ACCESS AND DRAINAGE OF THE PARKING LOT.
ALL RIGHT AND SO OUR PARKING ORDINANCE IS REDUCING LIKE THE DRAINAGE SPACE BASICALLY.
AS LONG AS WE'RE STARTING OFF PHILOSOPHICALLY, WHY DO WE HAVE PARKING ORDINANCE MINIMUMS? WHY DO WE REQUIRE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF PARKING? ARE PEOPLE REALLY BRINGING THIS APPLICATIONS FOR DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS THAT DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PARKING IN THEM? I THINK THE REASON WE HAVE PARKING MINIMUMS IS TO AVOID OVERFLOW ONTO PUBLIC ROADS AND ONTO OTHER PEOPLE'S PROPERTY.
BUT DOES THAT ACTUALLY HAPPEN, OR IS IT ARE WE REGULATING SOMETHING THAT'S ACTUALLY A PROBLEM? IS PANDA EXPRESS PROPOSING THE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES BECAUSE OF OUR ORDINANCE, OR BECAUSE OF HOW MANY PEOPLE THEY THINK CAN SIT IN THE RESTAURANT? I THINK THE PROBLEM WE'RE TRYING TO FIX IS THAT WE USED TO HAVE THESE HUGE PARKING MINIMUMS. SO WE BUILT THESE HUGE PARKING LOTS THAT SIT EMPTY AND WE THINK THAT'S WASTEFUL AND PROBLEMATIC AND TAPERING DOWN ON THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS WILL END UP USUALLY WITH MORE GREEN SPACE AND A LITTLE, MAYBE A LITTLE LESS PARKING.
BUT THERE'S ONLY A RESTRICTED NUMBER OF SITUATIONS WHERE A BUSINESS OVERFLOWS ITS PARKING INTO SOMEBODY ELSE'S BUSINESS.
YEAH. CAN WE IDENTIFY ANY SPECIALTY GROCERY STORE THAT'S AWFULLY HARD TO PARK IN? AND THEY ASK FOR MORE PARKING, THOUGH.
CAN WE IDENTIFY ANY? I DON'T KNOW ANY OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.
WE DO HAVE A MECHANISM FOR OFF SITE PARKING AND FORMING AN AGREEMENT FOR THAT.
SO THERE IS A WAY TO DO IT LEGALLY.
BUT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, I CAN'T THINK OF ANYONE WHO'S DONE IT.
SO NOW THERE ARE SHARED PARKING, OBVIOUSLY SHARED PARKING LOTS IN A MALL.
PIGGYBACKING ON THE PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTION ABOUT WHY DO WE SET MINIMUMS? I GUESS MY QUESTION WOULD BE, ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY PLACE, ANY MUNICIPALITY IN THE COUNTRY, WHO HAS SAID PARKING MINIMUMS ARE OLD SCHOOL? THAT'S REALLY NOT NECESSARY.
IS THERE ANY PLACE IN MICHIGAN OR ANYWHERE ELSE WHERE THEY HAVE COMPLETELY DONE AWAY WITH THE CONCEPT OF PARKING MINIMUMS? ACTUALLY QUITE A FEW.
AND I DO BELIEVE THAT THIS WOULD HAVE AN OR AT LEAST WOULD HAVE PASSED THEIRS WELL BEFORE 22 IF COVID 19 DID NOT HAPPEN, BUT ANN ARBOR, MICHIGAN TRAVERSE CITY KALAMAZOO, MICHIGAN.
THAT'S A GOOD LIST. THAT'S A GREAT LIST AND ALL OF THEM ARE PRETTY RECENT.
THEY WERE DONE WITHIN THE LAST 3 TO 4 YEARS.
I THINK THAT ANN ARBOR HAS DONE WITH THE MOST CHANGES.
BUT IF YOU LOOK INTO KALAMAZOO'S ORDINANCES, INCLUDING AND HOWELL, MICHIGAN ORDINANCES YOU DON'T EVEN SEE THIS SCHEDULE REQUIREMENTS ON THEIR ORDINANCE PAGE AT ALL.
THEY JUST SORT OF LEAVE IT UP TO WHOEVER IT IS THAT WANTS TO DEVELOP IN THEIR TOWNSHIP AND THEN IS THAT DISCUSSED AT ALL AS PART OF THE SITE PLAN? WHEN THERE IS A COMMUNITY THAT DOESN'T HAVE A MINIMUM OR IS LIKE IT'S REALLY, TRULY UP TO THE ARCHITECT AND.
I'M JUST CURIOUS HOW THAT HOW THAT WORKS.
DO YOU HAVE AN ANSWER? THIS IS YOU TO THAT QUESTION SPECIFICALLY, I DO NOT HAVE AN ANSWER FOR, BUT I HAVE NO PROBLEM GOING BACK AND DOING SOME RESEARCH TO GET A BETTER ANSWER. DECEMBER 9TH IS WHEN THE NEXT MEETING IS, SO I'LL DEFINITELY HAVE AN ANSWER FOR THAT.
THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I HAVE A QUESTION.
[01:00:09]
LIKE OR LIKE FOR HOSPITALS.LIKE I GET IT WITH BUSINESSES, DEVELOPING BUSINESSES, RESIDENTIAL AREAS, BUT LIKE PLACES WHERE THE PUBLIC, YOU KNOW, IS GOING TO NEED A PARKING SPOT BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO GO TO THE E.R.
YEAH. SCHOOLS? YEAH. SORRY. I DIDN'T MEAN TO CUT YOU OFF.
RIGHT NOW, WHAT I CAN SEE ANN ARBOR DOES STILL HAVE, YOU KNOW, THEIR OWN ORDINANCE.
THEY DO HAVE LIMITATIONS ON HOSPITALS.
ANN ARBOR IS THE ONLY CITY THAT.
WHEN I WAS DOING MY RESEARCH THAT DID HAVE SET NUMBERS.
KALAMAZOO AND HOWELL, MICHIGAN.
THEY DID THE ONE PARKING SPOT FOR 60 BEDS.
I CAN ALSO SEE ANN ARBOR ALSO DID FIVE PARKING SPOTS PER CLASSROOM.
BUT IN TERMS OF EVEN IN TERMS OF, LIKE FIRE AND POLICE STATIONS, THERE WAS NO MENTION IN THE ANN ARBOR ORDINANCES EVEN INCLUDING HIGH SCHOOLS, THERE WEREN'T ANY MENTIONS FROM ANN ARBOR SPECIFICALLY AND THAT'S ALL I CAN SEE AS OF RIGHT NOW.
THANK YOU. WOULD YOU LIKE US TO COME BACK WITH A SUMMARY OF WHAT THOSE ORDINANCES LEAD TO? SOME BULLET POINTS? YEAH, THAT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE, BECAUSE I'M NOT AS FAMILIAR WITH THOSE COMMUNITIES ORDINANCES AS MIRA IS.
SHE'S THE ONE WHO'S BEEN RESEARCHING IT.
SOME OF THEM ARE IN DISTRICTS.
THANK YOU. I WOULD LIKE TO ALSO ADD TO JUST WITH, I DON'T KNOW IF SOMEONE CAN LOOK INTO THIS, BUT REACHING OUT TO THE HIGH SCHOOL ABOUT WHAT THEY BELIEVE THEIR PARKING NEEDS ARE.
I MEAN, LOOKING AT THIS PROPOSED CHANGE, WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I DIDN'T QUITE UNDERSTAND IT BECAUSE IT SAYS ONE FOR EACH AND THEN IT'S CROSSED OFF AND THEN IT SAYS PLUS ONE FOR EACH TEN STUDENTS.
BUT THAT WAS A CONCERNING ONE FOR ME.
HAVING TAUGHT HIGH SCHOOL, LOTS OF STUDENTS WHO ARE SOPHOMORES ARE DRIVING.
SO YOU'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, THREE QUARTERS OF YOUR HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS WHO ARE OF DRIVING AGE AND TO ONLY HAVE ONE SPACE PER TEN STUDENTS SEEMS VERY LOW TO ME AND IT HAS A HIGH SCHOOL.
YOU CANNOT GO TO A HOME FOOTBALL GAME WITHOUT PEOPLE BEING PARKED ALL OVER THE LAWN.
LIKE THAT LOT IS WAY TOO SMALL.
SO THE LANGUAGE ABOUT IN ADDITION TO THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE AUDITORIUM, MAYBE WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT THE MAX CAPACITY OF THE STADIUM OF A HIGH SCHOOL INSTEAD OF THE AUDITORIUM OR THE GYM INSTEAD OF THE AUDITORIUM, BECAUSE IT IS.
I'M ACTUALLY GLAD YOU SAID THAT, BECAUSE ANN ARBOR DOES HAVE LIKE A SUB, LIKE LITTLE LIKE LOOPHOLE.
SO, I'LL DEFINITELY SEE WHAT I CAN STRUM UP FROM THERE AND SEE HOW THAT CAN BE CROSS-REFERENCED WITH HASLETT HIGH SCHOOL'S NEEDS FOR PARKING. THANK YOU.
SO, I THINK, FIRST TO START OFF, MAYOR, I THINK YOU'RE DOING A GREAT JOB UP THERE.
THANK YOU. PUBLIC SPEAKING IS HARD.
I PERSONALLY WOULD LIKE YOU TO ZERO IN IF YOU'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT BULLET POINTS.
IN SUMMARY. ZERO IN ON HOWELL A LITTLE BIT.
BUT I'D LIKE TO JUST THINK ABOUT, LIKE, A TIMELINE IN BETWEEN THE CHANGE OF THESE ORDINANCES INTO THE PULLING OF THOSE BUSINESSES INTO THEIR DOWNTOWN, BECAUSE SOME OF THE OTHER TOWNS YOU MENTIONED ANN ARBOR, YOU KNOW, TRAVERSE CITY, KALAMAZOO, I THINK THERE'S MARKED DIFFERENCES BETWEEN OUR TOWN AND THEIR TOWN.
[01:05:09]
INTENTIONALLY BUILT UP THEIR DOWNTOWN.YES. I'M NOT HIDING MY OPINION BECAUSE AND JUST SO YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO, ONCE I GET MORE OF MY ROLE DOWN HERE, BETTER IS JUST BRINGING RESTAURANTS TO THE CITY AND NOT NO OFFENSE TO PANDA EXPRESS, BUT, YOU KNOW, NOT CHILI'S.
LIKE, YOU KNOW, MORE OF THE FOLKSY RESTAURANTS AND THEY NEED PARKING, RIGHT? AND I HOPE THEY NEED OVERFLOW PARKING.
I HOPE THEY HAVE TO MAKE AGREEMENTS BECAUSE THEY'RE MAKING GOOD FOOD AND THERE'S A BACKUP, RIGHT? SO THAT'S WHY I ALSO ZERO ON HOW WELL, THEY HAVE A COUPLE RESTAURANTS AND THEY'VE GOT A COUPLE LIKE DESTINATIONS THAT ARE WORTH GOING TO.
SO I JUST THINK THAT AS YOU THINK ABOUT A MODEL, LET'S FIGURE OUT THE TIMING VERSUS THOSE ISSUES.
RIGHT. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? YEAH TO DEVIL'S ADVOCATE THAT BECAUSE I LIVED IN HOWELL FOR SIX YEARS.
HOW'S DOWNTOWN? PARKING IS TERRIBLE.
SO PLEASE BRING US YOUR RESULTS.
THEIR BUILD UP IS AWESOME, BUT THE PARKING IS JUST HORRENDOUS.
NO PLACE TO PARK. PERHAPS IT'S A CAUTIONARY TALE.
YEAH. WELL, THEY HAVE PUBLIC PARKING LOTS BEHIND THEIR BUILDINGS, TOO.
YEAH. LIKE I SAID, JUST DEVIL'S ADVOCATE.
SO IT'S EASY TO SAY YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE ANY PARKING IN YOUR DOWNTOWN DEVELOPMENT.
IF YOU'VE GOT PUBLIC PARKING AVAILABLE AND YOU HAVE, AND THEN YOU END UP HAVING TO WALK.
SURE. I MEAN, THE SAME COULD BE SAID, AT LEAST FOR THE DOWNTOWN AREAS OF ANN ARBOR.
THEY'VE GOT MULTI HIGH RISE PARKING THAT IS QUITE OFTEN FULL AND YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, ON BUSY DAYS, NOT EVEN GAME DAYS, BUT YOU'RE CIRCLING BLOCKS TO TRY TO FIND ONE THAT HAS SPACES AVAILABLE.
SO IT DOESN'T MEAN A CHANGE IN, YOU KNOW, OUR DRIVE UP LIFESTYLE.
IF YOU'RE GOING TO AND HAVE THE CENTRALIZED PARKING AVAILABLE TO MAKE IT WORK, AT LEAST IN MY OPINION AND WHAT I WAS POINTING OUT TO IS OF THE OPTION SET THAT WAS LET OUT. OH YEAH. YEAH, I LIKE I DON'T SAY I EMPATHIZE, BUT HOWELL SEEMS MORE AKIN.
RIGHT. AND I KNOW WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM.
BUT SOMETIMES MY JOB IS TO JUST I KNOW I APPRECIATE IT, I'M DOWN FOR IT.
BUT LISTEN, THEY HAVE TWO FOG AND THEY HAVE M STREET.
I WOULD LIKE TWO FOG AT M STREET.
RIGHT. SO, COMMISSIONER MCCONNELL, DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING ELSE? OKAY. ANYBODY ELSE? OH, GO AHEAD, COMMISSIONER BROOKS.
I HAVE TWO OTHER QUESTIONS I WANT TO ADD TO THE LIST OF THINGS TO LOOK AT.
ONE IS, ARE THERE COMMUNITIES OUTSIDE OF MICHIGAN THAT HAVE DONE THIS? AND THAT IS IN ORDER TO ANSWER THIS SECOND QUESTION.
SO FOR COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE IMPLEMENTED SORT OF A EITHER NO PARKING ORDINANCE OR MINIMUMS, NO.
OFF SITE PARKING MINIMUMS, OR IS THAT THE RIGHT WORD? OFF STREET. OFF STREET.
SORRY, NO OFF STREET PARKING ORDINANCES OR REDUCED THOSE DRAMATICALLY.
WHAT HAS BEEN THE EFFECT ON THEIR COMMUNITIES? SO WHAT I HEARD WAS IN A PLACE LIKE HOW THEY HAVE REMOVED THAT, BUT THEN THEY'VE INSTITUTED PUBLIC PARKING AND SO THAT'S HAD SOME CONSEQUENCES IN THAT COMMUNITY.
BUT THEN I ALSO HEAR WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IN ANN ARBOR.
AND THAT'S ANOTHER SORT OF SET OF PROBLEMS. SO THEN THE SECOND POINT I WANT TO MAKE IS THE WAY THAT I THINK ABOUT THAT IS THE.
AND SO WE CONTINUOUSLY TALK ABOUT OUR HOW DO WE REDUCE THE CHANCES OF FLOODING AND PUT WATER IN PLACES AND SO PARKING IS ONE OF THE PRIMARY WAYS THAT WE CAN ADDRESS THAT AND BY HAVING THESE MINIMUMS HOPEFULLY THAT CAN REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF PARKING SPACE TO WHATEVER LEVEL WE NEED, BUT ALSO ALLOW FOR ADDITIONAL BUILDABLE SPACE WHICH WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF.
AND SO I THINK THIS COULD ADJUST THOSE THINGS.
QUESTION IS ARE THERE COMMUNITIES THAT DO MAXIMUMS LIKE THAT WAS MY QUESTION.
PARKING MAXIMUMS. LIKE IS THAT A THING? WE HAVE SOME OF OUR DISTRICTS.
YOU POINTED OUT TRADER JOE'S GOT A VARIANCE TO GO ABOVE THEIR MAXIMUM ON THEIR SITE.
[01:10:02]
YEAH. IS OKAY.WAS THAT IN THE PACKET? I DIDN'T SEE IT.
IT WAS BEFORE THEY HAD THEIR SITE PLAN.
I WAS STRUGGLING FOR A WAY TO MAKE THE POINT.
WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS A MINIMUM, NOT A MAXIMUM.
THEY CAN APPLY FOR A VARIANCE TO EXPAND THEIR PARKING.
OKAY. SO IT'S REALLY NOT AS RESTRICTIVE AS YOU'D THINK FROM LOOKING AT THE ORDINANCE ITSELF.
IT IS AN EXTRA STEP IN THE PROCESS.
AND THEY CAN SAY NO, BUT BUT YEAH THERE IS A THERE IS A MECHANISM.
OKAY. BUT NO ONE WAS GOING TO SAY NO TO TRADER JOE'S.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE SOMETIMES DO IS OFFER THOSE VARIANTS OR EXCEPTIONS WITH CONDITIONS AND I WORRY THAT IF WE DON'T HAVE A MINIMUM, THAT WE CAN OFFER AN EXCEPTION TO, THAT WE LOSE A TOOL IN THE TOOLBOX FOR INCENTIVIZING CERTAIN OTHER THINGS THAT WE MIGHT WANT TO SEE, LIKE GREEN BUILDING OR ENERGY EFFICIENCY OR OTHER OTHER THINGS.
AGAIN, I'D BE CURIOUS THAT THE COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE DECIDED TO DO THIS, IF THERE'S ANY WAY TO LOOK AT SORT OF THE DISCUSSION THAT WENT AROUND AND SORT OF WHAT PROBLEM THEY WERE TRYING TO SOLVE, WAS IT ENVIRONMENTAL AND JUST NOT HAVING AS MUCH VEHICULAR TRAFFIC, OR WAS IT SOMETHING ELSE AND IS THERE ANYTHING THAT SHOWS WHAT THOSE CONSEQUENCES, EITHER POSITIVE OR UNINTENTIONAL, MIGHT HAVE BEEN? I THINK IT GETS TO WHAT COMMISSIONER BROOKS WAS JUST ASKING FOR, LIKE WHAT WAS THE EFFECT? AND BUT ALSO WHY DID THEY DECIDE TO DO IT IN THE FIRST PLACE? AND WHAT WERE THEY TRYING TO DO WITH THAT? THIS IS REALLY FASCINATING AND I APPRECIATE YOUR WORK ON THIS.
I GUESS I'M INTERESTED THOUGH, IN TOOLS THAT LIKE IT.
SO IF WE HAD A PLACE THAT HAD A SEATING CAPACITY FOR 50 AND THEN THEY WANTED TO PUT IN 60 PARKING SPACES, LIKE I'M INTERESTED IN A TOOL THAT PREVENTS THAT BECAUSE I DON'T SEE HOW THAT SITUATION, WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THAT AT THE MOMENT.
I THOUGHT I HEARD THERE WERE SOME MAXIMA IN THE.
I KNOW I'D HAVE TO LOOK SPECIFICALLY AT THE LAND USE, BUT WE HAVE SOME CASES.
IT'S NOT ACROSS THE BOARD WHERE WE HAVE WE DON'T HAVE A MAXIMUM ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE ORDINANCE.
BUT THERE ARE SOME CASES WHERE WE HAVE A MAXIMUM.
WE COULD LOOK MORE HEAVILY AT THOSE, RIGHT? MY EXPERIENCE IS MOST PEOPLE COME HERE WANTING TO BUILD SOMETHING, UTILIZING THE SPACE FOR THEIR BUILDINGS IN THE LEAST AMOUNT OF PARKING SPACES.
WE HAVE TO BUMP THEM UP TO PARKING SPACES.
THEY ONLY HAVE SO MUCH SPACE TO DEAL WITH AND THEY DON'T GET A RETURN ON THE PARKING LOT.
THEY'VE GOT STORES ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, ALL OVER THE WORLD.
THEY DIDN'T EVEN CONSIDER THE CODE.
SO I GO BACK TO YOUR ORIGINAL QUESTION.
WHAT'S THE PROBLEM WE'RE TRYING TO SOLVE? I THINK WE'RE LEARNING ABOUT IT.
I THINK WE'RE MODERNIZATION, EASE OF USE, BECAUSE SOME OF THESE CALCULATIONS ARE A LITTLE TOUGH AND REQUIRE A LOT OF DATA FROM THE APPLICANT TRYING TO MAKE IT SOMETHING MORE, SOMETHING THAT THE STAFF CAN CALCULATE WITHOUT HAVING TO GET A BUNCH OF DATA FROM THE APPLICANT IN SOME CASES, AND IN A COUPLE OF GLARING PLACES, REDUCING WHAT IS CLEARLY MORE THAN NEEDED.
AS I LOOK AT THIS, I MADE THE MISTAKE OF PRINTING IT IN BLACK AND WHITE, BUT IT STILL MAKES SOME SENSE BUT IT DOES SEEM LIKE ALTHOUGH THERE'S A LOT OF CHANGE, YOUR CHANGES ARE ON THE MARGIN.
YOU'RE SIMPLIFYING LANGUAGE, YOU'RE CONSOLIDATING THINGS, YOU'RE UPDATING WORDS BUT THE NUMBERS ONLY CHANGE IN CERTAIN AREAS AND I GUESS THE OTHER THING THAT WOULD BE GOOD TO KNOW WHEN YOU COME BACK NEXT TIME IS WHERE YOU REDUCED.
IT LOOKED LIKE THEY ONLY SAW ONE THAT MIGHT HAVE INCREASED, BUT WHERE YOU CHANGED IT, YOU KNOW?
[01:15:02]
ARE THERE GENERAL RULES FOR WHY THAT WAS CHANGED? IS IT STANDARD BEST PRACTICE NOW SAYS THIS, OR IS IT BASED ON YOUR WORK WHERE YOU WENT AND COUNTED AT A SCHOOL? IT JUST SORT OF WHEN YOU'VE PROPOSED A CHANGE TO WHAT'S CURRENTLY THERE, WHAT WAS THE THINKING BEHIND IT? AND I DON'T NEED EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE, BUT MORE IF THERE ARE GENERAL PRINCIPLES THAT YOU FOLLOWED, AND THEN IF THERE'S ANY EXCEPTIONS THAT YOU THINK ARE PARTICULARLY INTERESTING. I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY OF LOOKING AT IT ON A BIG SCREEN LIKE THIS AND SOME OF THAT IS ENCAPSULATED IN THE COMMENT BUBBLES.IN MOST CASES WHAT THE MODEL WAS THAT WAS USED AND WHAT THE RATIONALE.
SO THAT'S FROM DELHI TOWNSHIP.
YOU'RE RIGHT. AND I DIDN'T CATCH ALL OF THAT, SO THAT'S GOOD.
THANK YOU. SO YOU CAN MAYBE IGNORE THAT IF THAT'S ALREADY IN THERE.
NO, WE CAN GIVE YOU SOME MORE DETAIL FOR THINGS THAT YOU THINK MIGHT BE OF INTEREST TO US.
LIKE THIS ONE WAS PARTICULARLY FASCINATING AS WE LOOKED INTO IT.
HOW LONG ARE YOU GOING TO BE WORKING WITH US? I'LL BE HERE UNTIL END OF APRIL.
OKAY. WHAT? SHE'S LEAVING AFTER TONIGHT.
NO, BRIAN'S NOT SEEING ME TOMORROW, THAT'S FOR SURE.
SO, I READ IN DETAIL THE STUFF ABOUT THE LARGER FACILITIES THAT ARE 50,000 OR 100,000.
WHAT IS THE EFFECT OF THE CHANGES.
SO WHAT WAS THE MALL CLASSIFIED AS, OR WHAT WOULD IT BE CLASSIFIED UNDER OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE, AND WHAT IS IT CLASSIFIED UNDER THIS NEW ONE? CAN YOU SCROLL DOWN? YEAH. SORRY.
THIS WAS ALL DONE TO SIMPLIFY THE PROCESS AND, LIKE THE NOTE THERE SAYS IT COMES FROM CANTON TOWNSHIP.
I BELIEVE THE MALL IS GREAT, AND I THINK IT'S THAT I'D HAVE TO SEE.
IT'S EITHER THAT IT'S EITHER THE SECOND OR THE THIRD OR THE FOURTH.
IT'S BETWEEN 100 AND 400,000 OR OVER 400,000FT².
I CAN LOOK AT A SITE PLAN AND SEE HOW MANY GROSS SQUARE AREA, SQUARE FEET OF AREA.
YEAH. SO I WAS I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT THAT IT DOES SIMPLIFY THE LANGUAGE.
SO WHEN I LOOK AT THIS AND I SEE FOR CENTERS HAVING A GROSS FLOOR AREA LESS THAN 25,000FT² UNDER THE ORIGINAL ORDINANCE THAT HAS 5 TO 5 AND A HALF SPACES PER 1000 SQUARE, RIGHT? BUT THEN THE CENTER IS LESS THAN 50,000FT² UNDER.
THE NEW ONE HAS BASICALLY FIVE SPACES PER 1000FT².
BUT IN THAT INSTANCE, IT DIDN'T ACTUALLY REDUCE THE PARKING NECESSARY FOR THAT 25% OR LESS.
IT ACTUALLY INCREASES THE PARKING NECESSARY FOR 25,000 TO 50,000FT², DOESN'T IT? IT'S FOR THE EXISTING 25,000FT².
YOU'RE RIGHT. NOW THAT YOU'RE DOING THE MATH, IT'S FIVE SPACES PER 1000FT², BUT THEN YOU'RE APPLYING THAT TO UP TO 50,000FT².
SO THAT GETS THAT BLEEDS INTO THE SECOND CATEGORY.
THERE'S NOT MUCH DISTINCTION IN THAT BETWEEN CENTERS OF 25 GREATER AND 25,000 AND LESS THAN 400,000.
[01:20:05]
OKAY, SO IN OUR COMMUNITY, WHAT DO WE WANT FOR PARKING LIKE DO AND IS IT LESS? AND SO IF IT IS LESS, IF THAT'S WHAT'S DRIVING THESE ORDINANCE CHANGES, THEN EACH OF THESE DECISIONS, I THINK, REQUIRES US TO SAY, DOES THAT ACCOMPLISH THAT GOAL? IS IT LESS ENOUGH? YEAH.IS IT AND WHAT IS LESS ENOUGH? LIKE I DON'T AND I ASKED ABOUT THE MALL TOO BECAUSE I'M LIKE I DON'T KNOW WITH LESS ENOUGH FOR THE MALL LOOKS LIKE BECAUSE I IT'S JUST LIKE IT'S SO HUGE. BUT LIKE WE HAVE QUITE A FEW STORES THAT ARE THE SIZE OF MYER AND WALMART AND THOSE PARKING SPACE PLACES, WE KNOW THAT THERE IS EXCESS PARKING THERE, THAT WE ACTUALLY COULD USE THAT SPACE FOR OTHER THINGS.
NOW, THERE MAY BE OTHER SIZED FACILITIES THAT ARE VERY SMALL AND WE'RE LIKE THIS ONE.
THESE ARE TOTALLY FINE AND WE WANT TO KEEP IT AT THAT RATE.
I WONDER GOING GOING ALONG WITH THAT.
SO YOU HAVE SKI CLUB, SWIMMING CLUBS OR BEACHES, TENNIS CLUBS OR OTHER SIMILAR USES.
THAT WOULD THAT QUALIFY IN THAT DEFINITION OR WAS THAT CONSIDERED? BECAUSE I THINK SOME OF THESE DEFINITIONAL ONES AND DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER TONIGHT BECAUSE I'M YEAH, I'M NITPICKING HERE.
RIGHT. IF THE MAC IS WITHIN JURISDICTION.
YEAH. YOU KNOW WHAT ARE THOSE.
BECAUSE BOTH OF THEM ARE MULTI-USE.
BUT BUT YEAH, I SEE YOUR POINT.
I MEAN, I'M NOT A SKIER. I DON'T CARE ABOUT SKI CLUBS.
WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE ENOUGH.
WE HAVE ENOUGH. THERE ARE MORE GOLF COURSES, THE BETTER.
WHAT WE'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT HERE IS TRYING TO MATCH PARKING OUTLAY WITH SOCIOLOGICAL AND ECONOMIC CHANGES. YEAH.
NOBODY IS BUILDING A MERIDIAN MALL ANYMORE.
YEAH AND THAT PARKING LOT WAS BUILT 40 YEARS AGO.
I LIVED HERE 40 YEARS AND THAT PARKING LOT USED TO ROUTINELY BE FULL.
IT'S JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
THEY CALL UP AMAZON AND HAVE IT DELIVERED TO THEIR DOOR.
SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ESPECIALLY ABOUT COMMERCIAL SPACE SHOPPING MALLS, I THINK WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS REFLECT WHAT WE THINK IS COMING IN THE FUTURE FOR NEEDS, FOR AGGREGATE SHOPPING AREAS AND I THINK THERE'S A GOOD REASON FOR WHY A SMALLER SHOPPING AREA MIGHT NEED MORE SPACES THAN IT DID IN YEARS PAST, BECAUSE THAT'S THE PLACE WHERE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GO FROM NOW ON.
SO I DON'T SEE AN IMBALANCE HERE.
SO GOING ON THAT ONE, BRIAN, THIS IS I'M ASKING YOU, THIS IS PROBABLY MORE HISTORICAL.
IT SAYS UNDER THE CURRENT RESTAURANT DEFINITION, IT'S BASED ON SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE RESTAURANT.
OKAY. IS THAT WAS THAT JUST TYPICAL OF THE TIMES THAT THESE WERE WRITTEN? YEAH. ALL OF THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN.
YEAH. IT'S JUST I BASE IT ON SQUARE FOOTAGE RATHER THAN SEATS.
IT JUST DOESN'T SEEM TO LINE UP FOR ME.
CAN YOU SCROLL UP AND FIND WHAT RESTAURANTS IS SO I CAN SEE WHAT HE.
YEAH AND THEN ALSO, I THINK MAYBE FOR YOUR PURPOSES, IF WE WERE TO TAKE THIS DEFINITION FOR RESTAURANT AND APPLY WHAT PANDA EXPRESS APPLIED FOR, WOULD IT PASS? SORRY.
KEEP GOING. ACCORDING TO WIKIPEDIA, THE MALL IS ALMOST 1,000,000FT².
THERE WE GO. WHAT? THE MALL IS WHAT? WHICH ONE? YEAH. SEE, THAT'S A GOOD EXAMPLE WHERE I WAS TALKING, WHERE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MODERN, YOU KNOW, MODERN LANGUAGE.
[01:25:08]
DOES PANDA MEAT PANDA HAS MORE SPOTS THAN IS REQUIRED BY OUR ORDINANCE CURRENTLY, I WOULD HAVE TO GO AND GO BACK AND CHECK THIS.YEAH, BUT I'M JUST SAYING THAT'S LIKE A REAL LIFE TEST, RIGHT? HAVE YOU EVER SEEN AN APPLICATION THAT HAD TWO LITTLE PARKING? IN MY CAREER HERE IN THE TOWNSHIP.
DO PEOPLE WALK UP AND SAY, I ONLY WANT THREE PARKING SPOTS? AND YOU SAY, NO, YOU GOT TO HAVE AT LEAST 50.
DOES THAT HAPPEN? NOT IN MERIDIAN.
I HAVE BEEN PLACES WHERE WE'VE HAD TO RUN VARIANCES FOR LESS THAN REQUIRED PARKING, BUT THAT'S BECAUSE OF THE SITE CONSTRAINTS AND A LOT OF TIMES THAT'S WHY COMMUNITIES WILL DO AWAY WITH PARKING MINIMUMS IN AREAS SUCH AS DOWNTOWNS WHERE YOU HAVE SITE CONSTRAINTS AND MAYBE THE LAST ONE BECAUSE IT'S VERY REAL.
WHERE WOULD CANNABIS SHOPS BE REGULATED UNDER HERE? COMMERCIAL JUST LEGAL SHOPPING.
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FIGURE THAT OUT EVENTUALLY.
WHEN SEEMS AWFULLY REAL, THOUGH.
I MEAN, WE'VE TAKEN UP ALL FIVE APPROVALS, RIGHT? WE'VE GOT FOUR.
FOUR. THREE OF THEM ARE GOING IN EXISTING BUILDINGS.
OKAY. SO WE'LL FIGURE THAT OUT IN THE FUTURE ON THE FOURTH.
WOULD MARIJUANA SHOP OR CANNABIS SHOP SEEMS TO FIT MORE OF THAT THAN JUST BLANKET COMMERCIAL.
RIGHT AND THERE ISN'T JUST LIKE A BLANK COMMERCIAL PARKING CATEGORY HERE EITHER.
MORE REASONS TO JUST GET RID OF THE MINIMUMS. ONE COMMENT THAT I HAVE WHEN THIS GETS CLEANED UP, IF WE DECIDE NOT TO COMPLETELY DO AWAY WITH IT IS I'M NOT SURE.
IT LOOKS LIKE AT ONE POINT IT WAS ALPHABETICAL, BUT NOW IT SORT OF SEEMS LIKE IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT OF A HODGEPODGE AND I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A STRUCTURE TO ORGANIZE, LIKE WITHIN THE CATEGORIES LIKE, OH, I SEE ONE SAYS RESTAURANTS, BUT THEN ONE SAYS DRIVE UP, DRIVE IN AND SELF-SERVICE RESTAURANTS AND THEN YOU'VE GOT LIKE, IF SOMEBODY WAS LOOKING AT THIS AND IT'S MULTI PAGES LONG, IS THERE A LOGIC? THE OCD IN ME WANTS IT TO BE ORGANIZED IN A LOGICAL WAY THAT'S EITHER BY BIGGEST USE TO SMALLEST USE OR SMALLEST TO BIGGEST OR SOMETHING.
YOU NEED TERMS LIKE EXCLUDING DRIVE IN AND IS SELF-SERVE RESTAURANTS GIVING SOMEONE A LOGICAL NEXUS TO ANOTHER COLUMN EXIST, AND THERE IS AN ALL OTHER RETAIL BUSINESSES UNLESS SPECIFICALLY DEFINED AND THEN IT'S THE LESS THAN.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WOULD BE WHERE THE MEDICAL MARIJUANA.
THE CATEGORY. I THINK ALMOST WE'D WANT A SPECIFIC DEFINITION.
I DON'T THINK YOU WANT TO USE IT FOR THAT.
CAN I SAY SOMETHING TO YOU, MISS? YEAH, OF COURSE YOU ARE.
OFF AND RUNNING WITH A GREAT START.
THANK YOU, GUYS, FOR GIVING ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO EVEN COME HERE.
THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMENTS, THOUGHTS? I HAVE SOME, BUT MR. MCCONNELL KEPT RAISING HIS HAND TO SAY SOMETHING.
GO AHEAD. NO, I SPOTTED WHERE IT SAYS DRIVE IN AND DRIVE THROUGH AND I SAW WHERE IT SAID BYPASS LANE AND I KNOW THAT'S SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN INSISTED UPON IN THE PAST WITH DRIVE THRUS BYPASS AND THE CURRENT SITTING TRUSTEES HAVE STRONG VIEWS ON THAT ISSUE.
SO IF WE DO GO WITH A WHOLESALE CHOPPING, WE MIGHT WANT TO THINK ABOUT DRIVE THROUGH, DRIVE IN AND DRIVE THROUGH AS ONE THAT'S WORTH FIGURATIONS OR CONTROLLING THAT BYPASS LANE ISSUE IN SOME OTHER PART OF THE ORDINANCE.
SO WE DON'T LOSE IT ALTOGETHER, WAS MY POINT IS THE BYPASS LANE IS SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE ORDINANCE.
NOT. MAYBE I'D HAVE TO LOOK BECAUSE WE HAVE TO DO THOSE WITH A SPECIAL USE PERMIT ANYWAY, RIGHT?
[01:30:03]
YEAH. LIKE THAT.YEAH. I'M NOT SURE, BECAUSE I SAW IT HERE FOR THE DRIVE UP, EXCEPT RESTAURANTS AND THEN I DIDN'T SEE IT MENTIONED IN THE DRIVE IN RESTAURANTS SECTION, BUT I THOUGHT, WELL, I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHERE THE REQUIREMENT COMES FROM ANYWAY BECAUSE OF SPECIAL USE.
BUT MAYBE I, YOU KNOW, KNOW THAT WE HAVE A DRIVE IN RESTAURANT, IN FACT, THAT HAS A IN FACT, THE LAST TWO SUPS FOR DRIVE IN RESTAURANTS HAVE HAD BYPASS LANES FOR PEOPLE THAT CHANGE THEIR MIND.
WE SHOULD PULL THAT OUT AND MAKE THAT JUST A GENERAL REG.
JUST A DRIVE THROUGH IS GOING TO HAVE A BYPASS LANE.
YES. WAS THERE ANY GUIDING LANGUAGE THAT SAID HOW AND WHICH WE PLAN TO DO THAT, OR DOES IT JUST SAY UPDATE PARKING ORDINANCE? YEAH. YEAH.
JUST UPDATE. WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF SPECIFICS ON.
SO FROM A, I WAS SITTING HERE THINKING ABOUT ALL OUR COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS AND SORT OF THE PROCESS THAT WE'RE GOING THROUGH AND LIKE THIS BODY'S ROLE VERSUS STAFF'S ROLE.
AND SO WE'VE SAID A LOT OF THINGS.
AND I'M CURIOUS, WHAT DO YOU DO WITH ALL OF THIS, LIKE BECAUSE I'M UNCLEAR ON WHAT THE DIRECTION IS TO TAKE ACTION FROM THESE THOUGHTS AND COMMENTS.
WHAT I HEARD WAS THAT FURTHER RESEARCH INTO OTHER COMMUNITIES, WHY THEY CHOSE TO DO IT, WHAT THE RESULTS WERE AND HOW THEY COMPARE TO US AND A REVIEW OF WHETHER WE'VE EVER HAD PROBLEMS WITH THIS OR, OR WHERE ARE WE UNDER PART THAT WE'RE TRYING TO THAT THESE ORDINANCE WOULD FIX AND I THINK THIS IS ONE OF A SERIES OF THINGS THAT KIND OF WERE BROUGHT UP IN THE MASTER PLAN AS THINGS THAT WE WERE GOING TO LOOK AT AND SO IT'S NOT IN THE SAME WAY AS, LIKE IT'S COMING TO US, WE HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION.
BUT MORE WE'RE IN A LEARNING STAGE.
SO THIS IS A GOOD TIME TO ASK ALL OF THOSE REALLY GOOD QUESTIONS THAT WE GOT OUT AND THEN WHAT WE HEAR WHEN WE HEAR WHAT WE HEAR IN RESPONSE TO THOSE QUESTIONS, THEN WE MIGHT GIVE MORE DIRECTION TO STAFF.
IF WE CAN COME TO AN AGREEMENT AS A BODY TO GIVE THAT DIRECTION.
RIGHT NOW, I THINK WE'RE JUST ASKING QUESTIONS OF CURIOSITY, AND WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO.
MR. SHORKEY AND I TALKED ABOUT THIS LIKE EARLIER IN THE YEAR OF WHEN WE HAVE MEETINGS THAT DON'T HAVE A LOT OF PUBLIC HEARINGS OR A LOT OF BUSINESS, WE'RE GOING TO BRING THESE THINGS FORWARD AS STAFF HAS THEM READY FOR US TO LOOK AT AND KIND OF CONSIDER THEM.
SO THEY'RE NOT THINGS WITH A TICKING DEADLINE NECESSARILY, BUT THINGS THAT WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE CURIOUS ABOUT AND LEARN MORE AND I THINK THAT'S HOW I SEE IT ANYWAY.
DOES THAT RESONATE WITH YOU OKAY.
YEAH, I THINK SO. I ALSO AM JUST THINKING ABOUT THE LIKE, WHAT IS DO WE, IN THE NEXT MEETING, DO WE GIVE A SET OF RECOMMENDATIONS THAT ARE LIKE, SO LET'S DRIVE THE POLICY.
THE ORDINANCE IN THIS DIRECTION IS THE SORT OF BODY THAT REPRESENTS THE TOWNSHIP OR CITIZENRY.
IS THAT A THING THAT WE DO OR, AND THAT HAPPENS THROUGH THESE VERBAL COMMENTS, OR DOES IT HAPPEN THROUGH SOME SORT OF WRITTEN THING THAT WE PROPOSE? I BELIEVE THE NORMAL PROCESS IS FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO PROPOSE ORDINANCE CHANGES TO THE TOWNSHIP BOARD.
THEY HAVE TO APPROVE ANY CHANGE IN THE ORDINANCE.
SO OUR JOB IS TO SEND THEM A PROPOSAL, AND IT HAS TO HAVE A RATIONALE FOR WHY THESE THINGS ARE BEING REQUESTED. SO I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT TO BE ASKING THIS QUESTION, BECAUSE I THINK IT HELPS US KIND OF FOCUS OUR NEXT CONVERSATION HERE OF WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THIS AGAIN, ARE WE GOING TO BE READY TO COME TO SOME COLLECTIVE AGREEMENT AROUND A DIRECTION? BECAUSE I HEARD ONE SAYING, LET'S TWEAK THIS, THIS AND THIS.
AND THEN I HEARD ANOTHER SAYING, WHY DO WE HAVE IT AT ALL? AND THEN AND SO I DON'T THINK WE'RE THERE YET, BUT I THINK THAT SHOULD BE WHEN WE HAVE THIS CONVERSATION AGAIN, KIND OF DO A PULSE CHECK AND SAY, WHERE ARE WE NOW? AND CAN WE? I DON'T WANT TO MAKE STAFF GO BACK AND BACK AND ANSWER A LOT OF QUESTIONS THAT ARE VERY SPECULATIVE WITHOUT A DIRECTION IN MIND, BUT I THINK THAT I
[01:35:03]
THINK RIGHT NOW JUST LEARNING MORE ABOUT THE WHOLE THING IS REALLY HELPFUL TO ME ANYWAY AND BUT I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT THAT BEFORE WE GIVE THEM DIRECTION, WE SHOULDN'T KEEP DOING THAT FOREVER. WE SHOULD GET TO TRYING TO GET TO A CONCLUSION OF SOME SORT AND I THINK MAYBE ANOTHER.I WAS JUST. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IT MAY BE BENEFICIAL.
BUT THERE ARE CERTAIN AREAS THAT ARE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT, LIKE DOWNTOWN OKEMOS.
IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IF WE COME UP WITH A USABLE ORDINANCE THAT DEFINES WHAT IS AN APPROPRIATE PARKING AREA, IT MIGHT APPLY TO SOMETHING LIKE DOWNTOWN OKEMOS DEVELOPMENT, BECAUSE A LOT OF WHAT WE'VE GOT NOW, I MEAN, PEOPLE ARE SCRATCHING THEIR HEADS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW THE HELL TO GET RID OF SOME OF THE HUGE PARKING LOTS FROM THE MALLS. BUT THAT'S REALLY THAT'S A DONE DEAL.
I MEAN, WE'LL HAVE TO FIGURE THAT OUT DOWN THE ROAD, BUT WE'VE GOT DEVELOPMENT THAT MIGHT BE COMING.
AND I THINK ONE WAY TO HELP PUT TOGETHER A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN WOULD BE TO THINK, ALL RIGHT, HOW IS THIS GOING TO AFFECT DOWNTOWN OKEMOS, THE PLACES WHERE WE ACTUALLY HAVE POTENTIAL TO BUILD? THAT'S A GOOD POINT AND HASLETT.
YEAH AND IT KIND OF REMINDS ME OF THE CONVERSATIONS WE HAD AROUND FORM BASED CODE OF THIS APPLIES IN SOME AREAS AND NOT NECESSARILY IN OTHERS, WHERE YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SEE THAT CHANGE.
I'M SORRY, COMMISSIONER [INAUDIBLE], DID YOU WANT TO SAY SOMETHING? YEAH. THAT WAS TO SOME EXTENT YOU GUYS ARE GETTING.
RIGHT. SO YOU GOT TO SIT THERE AND THINK ABOUT LIKE, OKAY, WHAT IF I'M A BUSINESS AND I'M TRYING TO WALK IN HERE TO DEVELOP AND I SEE A PARTICULAR RAG, WHAT'S GOING TO BE A RED FLAG VERSUS WHAT'S GOING TO BE A GREEN FLAG, RIGHT.
WHAT'S GOING TO MAKE ME WANT TO COME THERE VERSUS NOT WANT TO COME THERE? BECAUSE THAT'S A MAJOR PART OF IT, ESPECIALLY WITH THE DOWNTOWN AREA.
RIGHT. SOMETHING'S GOT TO SOMETHING'S GOT TO GIVE.
SO, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO GET FEEDBACK FROM OPPORTUNITIES MISSED, BUT.
OR JUST LIKE DEVELOPMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE GO AHEAD.
SO BY THAT, RIGHT, I GUESS WHAT MIGHT BE INTERESTING IS IF WE DO GET TO A POINT WHERE WE'RE THINKING ABOUT RECOMMENDING SOME CHANGES, RUNNING IT BY LIKE THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OR LIAISON TO THAT COMMITTEE COULD TAKE A LOOK AT THAT OR THE DOWNTOWN DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY PEOPLE AND SEE WHAT THEY, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD BE A GOOD PLACE WHERE OUR LIAISONS COULD HELP US GET A BROADER SENSE OF PERSPECTIVE.
BECAUSE I SEE OUR JOB AS TWOFOLD.
THANK YOU. BEAR IN MIND THIS IS ONE SECTION OF THE PARKING ORDINANCE.
BECAUSE EVERY TIME WE TALK ABOUT PARKING, THIS IS WHERE THE CONVERSATION GOES.
BUT WE'RE GOING TO BE BRINGING YOU SOME MORE CHANGE, MORE PROPOSED CHANGES, BICYCLE PARKING.
YOU KNOW ON STREET DIMENSIONAL STUFF.
BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO DUMP IT ALL ON YOU AT ONCE.
DON'T BE SCARED. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
ALL RIGHT. NOW WE ARE ON TO ITEM NINE B 2025 PLANNING COMMISSION SCHEDULE.
[9.B. 2025 Planning Commission Schedule]
THERE IS A PROPOSED SCHEDULE IN OUR PACKET.ANYTHING WE NEED TO KNOW? LET ME GET THERE.
YEAH. IT'S THAT TIME OF YEAR WE GOT TO DO A RESOLUTION, GET IT TO THE CLERK'S OFFICE TO SET NEXT YEAR'S SCHEDULE. I DID GO THROUGH THIS BASED, YOU KNOW, WE MADE 3 OR 4 AMENDMENTS THIS YEAR.
I DID GO THROUGH AND MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT HITTING THE HOLIDAYS.
SO THIS IS WHAT I'VE GOT IN FRONT OF YOU.
IF YOU SEE ANYTHING OBVIOUS THAT I DIDN'T SEE, LET ME KNOW AND WE CAN CHANGE IT NOW.
[01:40:10]
SECOND. ALL RIGHT.ANY ADDITIONAL DISCUSSION? I HAVE ONE QUESTION, AND IT'S BECAUSE I CAN'T GET MY CALENDAR OPEN THAT MAY 26TH MEETING.
THAT'S NOT MEMORIAL DAY, IS IT? I WILL CHECK THAT RIGHT NOW.
I DID VERIFY IT WASN'T, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER THE DATE THAT IT WAS.
SO IT SEEMS LIKE THE DATE THAT IT WOULD LIKELY BE, BUT I'M.
I CAN'T GET MY. 2025 MEMORIAL DAY.
SO I REALLY THOUGHT THAT WE CAUGHT THAT.
OKAY. IT'S HARD TO TELL WHAT COULD HELP YOU, THOUGH.
YOU GET YOUR SHOES OUT OF THE PARK.
NO WORRIES. DO YOU WANT TO MOVE IT, OR DO YOU WANT TO JUST SAY ONE MEETING IN MAY? WE SEEM TO. AS LONG AS WE PLAN FOR IT, PEOPLE SEEM TO BE ABLE TO WORK AROUND IT.
OKAY. FOR ONE, AS LONG AS ALL THE OTHER DATES DON'T SEEM TO HAVE CONFLICTS.
I MEAN, I SEE A DATE I HAVE TO MISS, BUT I'M SURE THAT HAPPENS.
YOU'RE NOT. YOU GUYS AREN'T AS FUN AS MICKEY MOUSE.
MY BIRTHDAY'S ON A MONDAY THIS YEAR.
SO LET'S I SO FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO THOSE WHO MOVED AND SECONDED TO STRIKE THE MAY 26TH MEETING AND LEAVE JUST ONE MEETING ON MAY 12TH ON THE SCHEDULE.
ACTUALLY. ONE SECOND. OH, YES.
COMMISSIONER BROWNBACK, ARE YOU EYEBALLING MARCH 24TH, MAYBE.
YOU MENTIONED DISNEY, I DON'T KNOW.
SO REALLY, TVS DOWN THERE, YOU'LL BE.
I KNOW, BUT I'D RATHER I'D BE IN NEW ORLEANS IF THAT WAS.
IF THERE IS GOING TO BE AN ISSUE, YOU KNOW, WITH MULTIPLE PEOPLE OUT OVER SPRING BREAK.
BUT IT DOESN'T APPEAR THAT'S AN ISSUE.
SO IF YOU WERE TO CANCEL THE MEETING ON THE 26TH, LIKE YOU SUGGESTED AND YOU FOUND IT, YOU NEEDED A SPECIAL MEETING, YOU COULD JUST I COULD, YOU KNOW, STAFF WOULD LET YOU KNOW THAT.
OKAY. JUST MAKE THAT HAPPEN, OKAY? BUT IF YOU THERE'S NOT A LOT OF WIGGLE ROOM IF YOU GO ONE WEEK BEFORE YOU GO TWO MEETINGS IN A ROW, IF YOU MOVE IT ONE WEEK, YOU GET TWO MEETINGS IN A ROW AND I LIKE THE POINT.
I CAN'T PROMISE THAT YOUR PRINCIPAL PLANNER WILL BE HERE THE WEEK OF THE MEMORIAL DAY WEEK.
YEAH AND I AS LONG AS WE'RE NOT, LIKE, SETTING SOMEBODY UP FOR A WEIRDNESS WITH THE WAY THE TOWNSHIP BOARD MEETINGS ARE SCHEDULED SO THAT A MEETING MISSING ONE MEETING ENDS UP PUSHING THEM BACK LIKE, TWO MONTHS OR SOMETHING TO GET A DECISION FROM THE BOARD IF WE TAKE, YOU KNOW, SAY, HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING ON MAY 12TH AND THEN DON'T MAKE A DECISION UNTIL JUNE 9TH.
AND THEN NOW THEY'RE INTO JULY BEFORE THEY CAN GET THEIR TOWNSHIP BOARD STUFF HAPPENING.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE AND AGAIN, WHO KNOWS WHAT'S COMING BEFORE US AT ANY POINT.
SO IT'S SORT OF HARD TO YEAH TRY TO PREDICT THAT.
BUT YES YOU'LL LET US KNOW IF WE NEED A SPECIAL MEETING FOR A BIG PROJECT THAT THE TOWNSHIP IS COUNTING ON, BUT OTHERWISE WITH THE ONE STRIKE FROM THIS LIST.
IS EVERYBODY OTHERWISE OKAY? OKAY. THEN DO WE NEED A RESOLUTION.
OH OKAY. THERE IS A RESOLUTION.
YES. WOULD SOMEBODY LIKE TO MOVE THAT RESOLUTION.
SECOND. WE'VE MADE A MINOR FRIENDLY AMENDMENT.
OR DO WE NEED TO DO A ROLL CALL? BECAUSE IT'S.
. SO I THINK WE STILL HAVE ENOUGH POSITIVE VOTES DESPITE OUR ABANDONING SHIP.
WELL, IF YOU NEED ANOTHER POSITIVE VOTE, I THINK WE'RE OKAY.
FIVE. WE'RE GOOD. YOU HAVE TO THANK YOU, THOUGH.
[01:45:01]
NEW VOTING MINIMUMS. VOTING QUOTA. ALL RIGHT, SO MOTION PASSES.OKAY, NOW WE ARE BRINGING YOU A CLEAN RESOLUTION ON DECEMBER 9TH FOR YOUR SIGNATURE.
OKAY. THANK YOU. WE ARE DOWN TO ITEM TEN, A TOWNSHIP BOARD UPDATE.
[10.A. Township Board update.]
SO. THE TWO THINGS THAT COME TO MIND.THE MEDICAL THE RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA OKEMOS GATEWAY ON GRAND RIVER AVENUE. THEY'RE STILL THERE IN THE BOARD REVIEW FOR THEIR SPECIAL USE PERMIT AND STILL THERE'S THEY'RE STILL GETTING INFORMATION.
SO THAT'S IN PROCESS AND STILL MOVING FORWARD HASN'T BEEN FINAL APPROVED YET AND THEN THE OTHER THING THAT I'LL MENTION IS NEXT WEEK'S BOARD MEETING. FEW MONTHS BACK, WE DID A TEXT AMENDMENT TO CLEAN UP THE VILLAGE OF NAMAKWA DISTRICT LANGUAGE THAT IS BEING MOVED FORWARD NEXT WEEK TO THE TOWNSHIP BOARD.
THEY JUMPED RIGHT ON IT, DIDN'T THEY? THERE'S ONE MORE THING. NOVEMBER 20TH.
THAT IS TRUE. YES, THAT IS TRUE.
SO THEY'LL LOOK AT THE VILLAGE AND STUFF AND GO, WHAT IS THIS? YOU'LL HAVE TO ANSWER ALL THE QUESTIONS.
I HOPE MY MOM ALWAYS GOOD. ANYWAY.
ALL RIGHT. DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? OKAY. THE LIAISON REPORTS ITEM TEN B.
[10.B. Liaison reports.]
81 ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS.WHAT IS THE BOARD THAT I'M ON GOT CANCELED LAST TIME, AND WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY NEW BUSINESS RECENTLY.
ANYTHING ELSE? THE EDC WAS CANCELED AND THE BRT WAS CANCELED.
WELL, THE ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSION WAS ALSO CANCELED.
SO THAT SOUNDS LIKE A BUSY MONTH.
OKAY. THAT'S DOWN TO PROJECT UPDATES.
[11. PROJECT UPDATES]
I DIDN'T SEE NO CHANGES FROM LAST.OKAY AND I DO NOT SEE ANYBODY HERE TO GIVE US PUBLIC REMARKS.
[13. COMMISSIONER COMMENTS]
OKAY. I WILL TAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.SORRY. THAT'S OKAY. I KNOW YOU'RE LIKE, WE HAVE TO DO PARKING ORDINANCE WITH THIS GUY MORE.
THE COMMENT IS WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE DRIVE THROUGH SPECIAL USE PERMIT EARLIER THIS EVENING. MANY OF US HAD EXPERIENCES WITH MARSH ROAD AND THAT INTERSECTION WHERE THE FEDEX EXIT IS, AND I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE ANYTHING THAT WE CAN RECOMMEND ABOUT THAT INTERSECTION, BUT IT SEEMS TO BE A FAIRLY PROBLEMATIC AREA OUT OF THAT WHOLE SPACE.
IS IT POSSIBLE TO HAVE THAT LOOKED AT OR REVIEWED OR.
OKAY. THIS IS NOT RELATED TO THAT.
IT JUST GOT ME THINKING ABOUT IT.
I WAS TRYING TO OFFER THIS SUGGESTION LAST TIME THAT IF WE BELIEVE THAT AREA IS PROBLEMATIC, THEN IT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL TO BE SPECIFIC ABOUT IN WHAT WAYS IT IS PROBLEMATIC.
IS IT FRUSTRATING? AND PEOPLE ARE NOT SHOPPING AT THE BUSINESSES BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET OUT, OR IS IT ACTUALLY DANGEROUS? ARE THERE CRASHES OR PEOPLE RUNNING INTO EACH OTHER? YES. AND THOSE DATA ARE READILY AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC THROUGH THE MICHIGAN TRAFFIC CRASH FACTS DATABASE.
ANALYZING THEM IS EASY FOR AN AMATEUR TO GO WRONG.
BUT IT'S AN ART AND NOT A SCIENCE.
DO YOU RESPOND TO A LOT OF CRASHES AT THIS SITE? AND I THINK THEY'LL PROBABLY BE ABLE TO GIVE YOU A PRETTY GOOD IDEA OF WHETHER THAT'S A HOTSPOT FOR.
WELL, WHY DON'T I GET YOUR NUMBER? WHY DON'T I GET THE NUMBER FOR YOU? DO YOU WANT TO SEE THAT? I THINK THAT MIGHT BE A COMP.
THE NUMBER IS INTERESTING, BUT IT'S MEANINGLESS WITHOUT CONTEXT.
IS THAT MORE THAN WE WOULD EXPECT THERE OR LESS.
IS IT A HOTSPOT COMPARED TO OTHER PARTS OF MARS OR M22 AND 43?
[01:50:02]
I'M SORRY. IT'S NOT A THERE IS NO COUNTERFACTUAL.IF YOU LOOK AT THAT ONE, YOU WON'T FIND AN IDENTICAL INTERSECTION ANYWHERE ELSE THAT YOU CAN SAY.
THEY'LL ALL BE SOMEHOW A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.
SO IT'S HARD, BUT IT'S NOT IMPOSSIBLE.
YOU KNOW, IF PEOPLE ARE CRASHING INTO EACH OTHER AND GETTING KILLED, WELL, YOU KNOW, WE CAN LEARN THAT AND I'VE SEEN AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT POLICE DEPARTMENT WOULD BE COMFORTABLE DOING, BUT IN WHEN I WAS IN LANSING, I THINK IT WAS IN THE STATE JOURNAL, AND I'M NOT SURE WHO PRODUCED THE ACTUAL OPINION, BUT IT WAS A LIST OF INTERSECTIONS THAT WERE PARTICULARLY DANGEROUS OR PRONE TO CRASHES.
I THINK EVERYONE WAS LIKE, YEP AND I WOULD SUSPECT THAT YOU'D SEE THE SAME THING.
BUT YEAH, ANYTHING THAT THE TOWNSHIP THAT YOU CAN GET THAT YOU THINK WOULD BE HELPFUL THE THAT THEY'D BE COMFORTABLE SHARING IN A PUBLIC, YOU KNOW, SHARING WITH US THAT WOULD BECOME A PUBLIC PIECE OF INFORMATION.
YEAH. YEAH. WELL, THE DATA THAT'S NOT AN INTERSECTION.
THEY TEND TO REFERENCE THE NEAREST SIGNALIZED INTERSECTION.
SO KNOWING EXACTLY WHERE THE CRASH WAS REQUIRES LOOKING AT THE DIAGRAM AND READING THE DESCRIPTION AND FIGURING OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON HERE IN THAT INDIVIDUAL INSTANCE, AND THEN SOMEHOW CHARACTERIZING THE TYPES OF CRASHES THAT ARE GOING ON THERE.
THE SIDESWIPES ARE THEY T-BONES? ARE THEY REAR ENDS? AND THOSE ALL HAVE SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES THAT CAUSE THEM AND THEN YOU'VE GOT TO FIGURE OUT, WELL, IS THAT TOO MUCH? YEAH. IS IT WORSE THAN IT? YEAH. EVERYTHING WOULD BE BETTER IF THERE WAS NO DRIVEWAY, RIGHT? EVERYBODY WOULD BE HAPPIER.
EXCEPT YOU COULDN'T GET TO THE PROPERTY, SO.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? NOW I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
I MOVE TO ADJOURN. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER SCALES.
THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER MCCONNELL.
ALL IN FAVOR? ANY OPPOSED? I GOT MINUTES. YOU GOT THE MINUTES? 31. 21.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.