Jul 19, 2023 Zoning Board of Appeals Meeting

IT'S 6:31 AND I'M OFFICIALLY GOING TO CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER.

[1. CALL MEETING TO ORDER]

[00:00:03]

TODAY IS WEDNESDAY, JULY 19TH, 2023.

IT IS 6:31 P.M.

AND WE ARE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE AGENDA HERE, WHICH BEGINS WITH APPROVAL OF TONIGHT'S AGENDA.

HOPEFULLY EVERYBODY GOT A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THAT AND THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS.

OTHERWISE, I MOVE TO APPROVE TONIGHT'S AGENDA.

DO WE NEED A ROLL CALL FIRST? OH, THANK YOU.

WE WILL DO A ROLL CALL OF THE MEMBERS IN ATTENDANCE TO BEGIN THE MEETING BEFORE THE APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA.

ALL RIGHT, MOVING ON TO NUMBER TWO ON OUR AGENDA, WHICH IS APPROVAL OF AGENDA.

[2. APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA]

SO SUPPORT SUPPORTED BY MEMBER DESCHAINE.

THIS IS A VOTE TO APPROVE TONIGHT'S AGENDA.

MEMBER. KOENIG. YES.

MEMBER. DESCHAINE. YES.

MEMBER BENNETT. YES.

AND THE CHAIR VOTES YES.

NUMBER THREE ON OUR AGENDA WOULD BE CORRECTIONS, APPROVAL AND RATIFICATION OF MINUTES FOR MAY 17TH, 2023.

[3. CORRECTIONS, APPROVAL AND RATIFICATION OF MINUTES]

ALL RIGHT. THIS IS A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FOR MAY 17TH, 2023.

SO THOSE MINUTES HAVE BEEN APPROVED.

NUMBER FOUR ON OUR AGENDA IS COMMUNICATIONS, WHICH WE DON'T HAVE ANY OF NOTE.

AND NUMBER FIVE IS UNFINISHED BUSINESS, WHICH WE HAVE NONE.

SO WE WILL MOVE DIRECTLY INTO NEW BUSINESS.

WHICH BRINGS US TO ZBA CASE NUMBER 23 052055.

[6.A. ZBA CASE NO. 23-05 (2055 Grand River), Michigan First Credit Union, 27000 Evergreen Road, Lathrup Village, MI 48076 ]

EVERGREEN ROAD VILLAGE 48076.

MR. CHAPMAN, TAKE IT AWAY.

OKAY, SO THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A VARIANCE TO INSTALL A 20.2FT² WALL SIGN ON THE NORTH FACADE AT 2055 GRAND RIVER AVENUE IN 2011, THERE WAS A VARIANCE THAT WAS GRANTED BY THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS THAT PERMITTED THREE WALL SIGNS ON THIS BUILDING.

THEY'RE OUTLINED IN THIS CHART HERE.

SO THEY WERE GRANTED TO INSTALL TWO ADDITIONAL WALL SIGNS ON THE NORTH BUILDING ELEVATION THAT FACES GRAND RIVER, WHICH IS CONSIDERED THE FRONT FACADE.

AND THERE IS ONE MAJOR WALL SIGN ON THE NORTH ELEVATION.

THAT'S APPROXIMATELY 429FT² IN SIZE.

AND THE EXISTING FRONT FRONTAGE ON THAT FACADE IS 522 LINEAL FEET.

SO THE ORDINANCE ALLOWS ONE WALL SIGN ON THE FRONT FACADE AT A SIZE EQUIVALENT TO ONE SQUARE FOOT FOR EACH LINEAL FOOT OF BUILDING FRONTAGE OCCUPIED.

IN THIS CASE, THE MYER STORE, BEING 522FT LONG, ALLOWS ONE WALL SIGN UP TO 522FT² IN SIZE.

THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING TO INSTALL ONE NEW WALL SIGN THE MICHIGAN FIRST CREDIT UNION ON THE NORTH ELEVATION TO THE WEST OF THE MAIN ENTRANCE STORE AND APPROXIMATELY 20.2FT² IN SIZE.

SO THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING TO INSTALL ONE ADDITIONAL WALL SIGN ON THE NORTH ELEVATION WHERE THERE ARE THREE CURRENTLY LOCATED.

SO THE VARIANCE IS FOR ONE ADDITIONAL WALL SIGN.

THAT'S ALL I HAVE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAPMAN, WITH THE APPLICANT OR THE APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATIVE, TO COME UP TO THE PODIUM AND SPEAK ON THE CASE.

AND SIR, IF YOU'D LIKE, JUST GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD, PLEASE, SO WE KNOW WHO WE'RE TALKING TO.

HELLO, MY NAME IS CHARLES AL-DAIRI.

I'M WITH JIFFY SIGNS REPRESENTING MICHIGAN FIRST CREDIT UNION ADDRESS OF THE BUILDING OR ADDRESS OF YOUR PLACE OF EMPLOYMENT OR HOME.

SOMETHING FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD.

30777. SCHOOLCRAFT, LIVONIA, MICHIGAN.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE'RE SEEKING THIS VARIANCE MAINLY TO PROVIDE A SAFER ENVIRONMENT FOR THE PEDESTRIANS AND MOTORISTS INSIDE THE PARKING LOT, ALLOWING THEM TO IDENTIFY THE LOCATION OF THE BUSINESS.

PARKING LOTS TEND TO BE ONE OF THE MOST DANGEROUS SPOTS FOR PEDESTRIANS AND MOTORISTS FROM PEOPLE BEING DISTRACTED, WHETHER IT'S BY PHONE, GPS, MUSIC, TALKING, LET ALONE TRYING TO FIND WHERE THEY'RE GOING.

[00:05:03]

IT'S JUST THE ONE SIGN.

THERE IS ONE MODIFICATION.

AFTER WE SUBMITTED THIS, WE DID A LITTLE DEEPER INSPECTION ON THE SITE.

IT MIGHT ACTUALLY END UP BEING SLIGHTLY BELOW 20FT² BECAUSE THE CHEVRONS ON THE LEFT SIDE WON'T FIT.

OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THANK YOU. IF YOU'D LIKE TO STAY THERE, THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.

THAT WAY, IF WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS WE CAN ASK, IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS CASE TONIGHT? IF NOT, I WILL GO AHEAD AND CLOSE PUBLIC COMMENT AND OPEN FOR BOARD TIME.

ALL RIGHT. BOARD MEMBERS, ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? YES, MEMBER DESCHAINE.

JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, YOU'RE GOING TO BE A CREDIT UNION LOCATED WITHIN THE MYERS, CORRECT? FIRST OR SECOND STOREY? WILL BE ON THE FIRST STOREY, KIND OF WHERE YOU EXIT OUT FROM THE CHECKOUT LANES IN THE FRONT OF THE STORE.

WHICH ENTRANCE? THE EAST OR THE WEST ENTRANCE? UM, 100% SURE.

ONE YEAR BOTTLE RETURN OR THE ONE YEAR THE PHARMACY.

I'M NOT 100% SURE ON THAT IS I CAN LOOK IT UP.

PERHAPS WE COULD REFRAME THAT.

IS IT CLOSE TO WHERE THIS SIGN IS LOCATED? I BELIEVE IT IS CLOSE TO THAT SIDE.

BE CLOSER THAN TO THE PHARMACY.

OKAY. IS WHAT I UNDERSTAND.

YEAH, I BELIEVE THAT'S CORRECT.

I THINK THERE USED TO BE LIKE A HUNTINGTON BANK IN THERE.

YEAH. PREVIOUSLY. OKAY.

YEAH, THAT'S WHAT.

THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN MY NEXT QUESTION.

MEMBER. DESCHAINE. GO AHEAD. IS THERE A CALL? MYERS SUBLETS THAT WHOLE UPPER LEVEL.

THEY USED TO HAVE A HAIR SALON UP THERE AND SOME OTHER BUSINESSES UP THERE.

SO WE COULD IF WE APPROVE THIS, WE COULD CONCEIVABLY HAVE 4 OR 5 OTHER APPLICANTS WHO MIGHT ALSO BE ASKING US TO PUT SIGNS IN FRONT OF THE STORE.

ANY POSSIBILITY THAT MYERS WOULD LET YOU PUT A SMALLER SIGN UNDERNEATH THEIR SIGN ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE STORE? I'D HAVE TO CHECK WITH THEM ON THAT.

THIS WAS THE LOCATION THAT THEY IDENTIFIED THAT THEY WOULD LIKE IT.

IT GOES WITH THE WE'VE DONE THIS FOR, I WANT TO SAY 3 OR 4 OTHER LOCATIONS WITH MYERS AND MICHIGAN FIRST IN THAT SAME LOCATION. SO WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE.

WHAT IS THAT SIGN THERE, SAY? THE SIGN SAYS MICHIGAN FIRST CREDIT UNION.

I SEE. WOULD THIS LIGHT BE ILLUMINATED? SIGN BE ILLUMINATED? YES, IT WOULD.

WOULD IT BE? I MEAN, LIT FROM BEHIND OR JUST A LIGHT ON THE SIDE? IT'D BE REAR ILLUMINATION.

SO IT WOULD BE LIKE A GLASS PANEL ILLUMINATED SIGN? OR HOW WOULD IT BE ILLUMINATED? THEY'RE INDIVIDUAL CHANNEL LETTERS, EXCEPT FOR THE PART THAT SAYS CREDIT UNION.

THAT'S A CAPSULE THAT WE'RE DOING A PUSH THROUGH ACRYLIC.

THIS WILL BE LED, ILLUMINATED.

AND I BELIEVE WE HAVE 7200 K LEDS PLANNED FOR IT AT THE MOMENT.

WHICH WOULD PROJECT BRIGHTNESS PROBABLY OUT TO ABOUT 100FT.

I'M, BECAUSE THIS IS THE MYER STORE AND THEY KIND OF OWN THAT WHOLE BLOCK THERE.

I THINK THIS KIND OF STEPS IN MY MIND, STEPS APART FROM A TYPICAL STRIP MALL OR OTHER ENTITY WHERE YOU HAD SEVERAL STORES WERE LIKE ACROSS THE STREET, WE'VE GOT MERTZ MEATS AND WE'VE GOT THE GOODWILL STORE AND WE'VE GOT THE FRAMING SHOP.

AND THAT THAT KIND OF SIGN LIMITATION THERE KIND OF MAKES SENSE.

YOU DON'T WANT IT TOO CROWDED IN THERE BECAUSE IT'S KIND OF VISUAL POLLUTION.

BUT THIS BEING THE THIS LARGE SUPERSTORE FOR MYERS, I'M MORE INCLINED TO TO APPROVE IT BECAUSE IT FITS WITHIN THE MYER ENTERPRISE, ALTHOUGH FROM A TREASURER POINT OF VIEW, MYER AND OTHER BIG BOX STORES ARE STARTED BY MENARDS ARE REALLY PUTTING IT TO TAXPAYERS IN MICHIGAN.

THEY HAVE APPEALED THEIR THEIR BIG BOX TAX APPEALS.

A MYER STORE IN MICHIGAN PAYS HALF THE PROPERTY TAX THEY PAY IN OHIO.

SAME WITH MENARDS. SAME WITH HOME DEPOT.

THAT'S A WHOLE NOTHER DISCUSSION.

THEY ARE NOT GOOD TAX CITIZENS IS WHAT I'LL SAY.

AT THE SAME TIME, THIS MYER STORE IS YOU KNOW, WE ALL KNOW HOW BUSY IT IS ALL THE TIME.

AND JOBS, TOO.

I THINK CERTAINLY A LOT OF JOBS THERE.

YEAH. SO AND WHERE DID THIS SIGN WOULD GO? THERE WAS NOTHING ON THAT BLUE PANEL RIGHT NOW, IS THAT CORRECT?

[00:10:04]

THERE MIGHT BE PHARMACY UP TOP THERE.

I SEE. YOU CAN SEE.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN SEE IT.

OH, WELL, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO SEE IT ON YOUR MONITOR.

MEMBER DESCHAINE WHERE MR. CHAPMAN IS CIRCLING WHERE THERE'S A PHARMACY SIGN LOCATED.

AND I'M ASSUMING MR. CHAPMAN, THAT'S PART OF THEIR THAT WAS ONE OF THE THREE.

THAT WAS ONE OF THE THREE.

AND THEN THE BOTTLE RETURN ON THE OTHER END ON THE, ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BUILDING.

YEP. OKAY.

I THOUGHT AT FIRST YOU WERE USING MYER AS AN EXAMPLE OF SAYING, SEE MYER GOT THESE THREE EXTRA SIGNS.

SO NOW WE WANT MYER GOT.

NO YOU'RE ACTUALLY SAYING KEEP GIVING MYER ALL THESE BREAKS WITH THEIR, THEIR SIGNS AND THEIR AND THEIR SUBTENANT SIGNS.

AGAIN THE FACT THAT IT'S ON THE BLUE AREA AND NOT ABOVE THE BLUE IS NOT AS DIFFICULT FOR ME TO APPROVE THIS VARIANCE.

THOSE ARE MY FIRST THOUGHTS.

THANK YOU. MEMBER DESCHAINE.

I WOULD ADD TO THAT AND SAY THAT LOOKING AT THAT FACADE AND SEEING THE SIZE OF THE SIGN AND EVEN POTENTIALLY BEING MORE MINIMAL THAN WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, THAT TO ME RIGHT THERE KIND OF MEETS MY THOUGHTS AS FAR AS MINIMUM ACTION IS CONCERNED.

I DO HAVE THE SIMILAR CONCERNS THAT MEMBER DESCHAINE HAS ABOUT THE OTHER TENANTS IN THE MYER, AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK WE'VE BEEN WRESTLING WITH A LITTLE BIT AS A BOARD.

WHAT, WHERE OUR SIGN ORDINANCE KIND OF IS RESTRICTED IS WHERE WE'RE BEING ASKED TO STEP IN AND SAY, OKAY, HOW MUCH MORE STUFF CAN WE PUT ON THE SIDE OF THIS BUILDING AND.

IN THIS CASE, SINCE SINCE MEYER IS A LARGER BUSINESS, THERE'S A BUSINESS INSIDE OF THE BUSINESS THAT DOESN'T HAVE THAT INSTANT ACCESS.

YOU HAVE TO WALK INTO THE STORE TO GAIN ACCESS TO THE CREDIT UNION.

THAT'S WHERE I FEEL LIKE A A PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY COMES IN FOR ME BECAUSE THERE'S NO EXTERIOR OF THIS BUSINESS UNTIL YOU WALK IN.

SO UNLESS YOU SEE THAT THERE IS A MICHIGAN CREDIT FIRST, I MEAN, I THINK IN THE IN THE PACKET WAS MENTIONED THAT LOOKING AT A GPS OR IF YOU'RE LOOKING ON THE APP AND YOU'RE TRYING TO FIND THIS LOCATION WITHOUT THE SIGNAGE, YOU'RE LOOKING AND YOU'RE SEEING, OH, THERE'S A.

MEYER I'M ASSUMING.

MR. O'LEARY IS THERE AN ATM OR ANOTHER EXTERIOR PORTION? BECAUSE I KNOW THE HUNTINGTON BANK HAD AN ATM THERE.

EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE INTERNAL I'M AWARE OF.

OKAY, SO AS OF NOW, THERE'S NO EXTERIOR ATM OR ANYTHING IN THE PARKING LOT.

CORRECT. OKAY. SO AGAIN, THERE'S NOTHING ELSE.

YEAH. MR. CHAPMAN SO AS FAR AS I KNOW, THE HUNTINGTON BANK IS GOING TO REMAIN THE ATM OUT THERE AS FAR AS I KNOW.

OKAY. INTERESTING.

INTERESTING FROM A PERSPECTIVE THAT SCIENCE WE NEED TO BE CONTENT NEUTRAL WITH SCIENCE, BUT I CAN SEE WHERE THAT COULD ALSO BE A CONFUSING SOMEBODY SEEING A HUNTINGTON ATM AND LOOKING FOR THE CREDIT UNION IS GOING TO BE WHAT AM I DOING HERE? UM, YEAH, I.

I TEND TO I TEND TO FALL IN THE LINES OF THIS BEING A MINIMAL ACTION AND BEING ABLE TO MEET THE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES AND UNIQUENESS OF THE SCENARIO.

THE MORE WE TALK ABOUT IT. SO I, THAT'S WHERE I'M STANDING.

ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING THEY WANT TO ADD? I'M GOING TO LET HIM SPEAK BEFORE ME.

GO FOR IT. WELL, I DO AGREE, ESPECIALLY WITH WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT PARKING LOTS BEING ONE OF THE MOST DANGEROUS PLACES.

I THINK IT'S. REALLY GOOD IDEA TO HAVE SOMETHING VERY CLEAR.

THAT WAY YOU DON'T HAVE PEOPLE DRIVING AROUND, YOU KNOW, RUBBERNECKING, LOOKING FOR, HEY, WHERE'S THIS BANK? DEFINITELY HELPFUL.

AND THE FACT THAT EVEN THE CHEVRONS ARE GOING, IT'S JUST GOING TO BE CLEARING IT UP EVEN MORE.

I THINK IT'S PRETTY CONCISE, CLEAR, AND IT'S MINIMAL AS TO HOW MUCH IT'S ADDING TO THE BUILDING, WHICH I THINK IS A GOOD IDEA.

JUST TO BE CLEAR, THEY'RE NOT BEING REMOVED.

THEY'RE JUST BEING SHRUNK DOWN A HAIR TO BE ABOUT THE SAME HEIGHT AS THE LETTERING AND THE OTHER CAPSULES.

GOTCHA. REGARDLESS, I STILL THINK I STILL THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA.

SO I AGREE.

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, MEMBER BENNETT.

I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY THAT I BASICALLY ECHO ALL THE COMMENTS AS YOU GUYS MADE.

THE ONE THING I DID WANT TO KIND OF ADD ON, I APPRECIATE MEMBER DESCHAINE'S COMMENT.

I WAS QUESTIONING THAT AS WELL AND YOU HAD AGREED WITH THAT.

I KNOW THAT SOUNDS LIKE THAT'S SOMETHING WE PROBABLY HAVE TO IF THAT TIME WERE TO EVER COME, IF ANOTHER BUSINESS WERE TO COME IN THERE AND THEY WANT TO PUT ANOTHER SIGN, THAT'S SOMETHING WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IN THE FUTURE WITH THIS.

[00:15:01]

IT'S JUST THE NUMBER TO SIGN.

SO IF ANOTHER NAIL SALON OR MASSAGE PLACE OR WHATEVER WOULD HAVE COME IN, IT'S GOING TO BE PRETTY CLOSE.

BUT THEY'RE PROBABLY GOING TO WANT TO GO OVER THAT 522, WHICH OPENS UP A WHOLE DIFFERENT DYNAMIC OF NOW WE'RE NOT JUST LAYING ANOTHER SIGN.

NOW WE'RE GOING OVER THAT SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT WE'RE ALLOWED PER CODE.

SO NOT NOT TO BE WHAT'S THE TERM? I CAN'T THINK OF THE TERM. BUT ANYWAYS, YOU PROBABLY UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET AT, NOT TO BE DISCRIMINATORY TOWARD THAT'S WHAT I WAS SAYING, NOT TO BE DISCRIMINATORY TOWARD ANOTHER BUSINESS THAN WHAT'S COME IN.

AND WE SAY, HEY, YOU WENT OVER THAT. 522 SO I ABSOLUTELY KNOW THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M SAYING, BUT IT'S JUST ANOTHER PIECE OF THE PUZZLE THAT THIS BOARD WOULD HAVE TO CONSIDER IF ANOTHER COMPANY COMES IN THERE.

AND I KNOW LIKE, FOR INSTANCE, HAVING A MURAL IN BATH, THERE'S A SUBWAY IN THERE, BUT I DON'T THINK THERE'S A SUBWAY SIGN OUTSIDE.

SO THIS TYPE OF THING, I THINK, IS HAPPENING ALL OVER THE PLACE WITH THESE SECOND BUSINESSES COMING IN AND PUTTING THESE SIGNS OUT THERE.

AND I CAN KIND OF AGREE AND UNDERSTAND AND AGREE FOR THE SAFETY SAKE.

THERE'S MULTIPLE ENTRANCES TO THIS.

AND THIS IS JUST A BESIDES BEING A WACKY SHAPE.

IT IS A PRETTY, THE BUILDING IS SET BACK PRETTY FAR.

AND YOU GET ALL THOSE BUILDINGS LIKE CHICK FIL A, AND NOW IT'S GOING TO BE BLOCKING EVEN MORE BECAUSE CHICK FIL A BUILDS THEIR COVERS THAT THIS BOARD APPROVED.

YOU'RE GOING TO REALLY BLOCK EVEN MORE OF A VIEW FROM GRAND RIVER TO BE ABLE TO SEE THE THE MYER BUILDING.

SO I THINK I DO AGREE WITH THE OTHER MEMBERS THAT IT PROBABLY WOULD HELP AS FAR AS THE SAFETY AND JUST THE GENERAL WAYFINDING TO BE ABLE TO SEE THAT AND GO WHERE ON THE BUILDING IS THIS THING, YOUR BOTTLE, YOUR BOTTLE RETURN? I ACTUALLY WISH THAT SIGN WAS A LITTLE BIT BIGGER BECAUSE IT'S ONLY TEN FEET AND IT'S SOMETIMES IT'S HARD TO SEE UNTIL YOU GET UP THERE UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT SIDE IT'S ON.

BUT THAT'S A WHOLE NOTHER TIME.

SO I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT I CONCUR WITH MOST OF THE COMMENTS YOU GUYS MADE.

ALL RIGHT. MICHIGAN FIRST HAS LOCATIONS AT WALMART AS WELL.

DO YOU KNOW IF THEY HAVE AN EXTERIOR SIGN THERE? THEY THAT'S ACTUALLY FUNNY THAT YOU MENTIONED THAT, MR. CHAPMAN. WOULD YOU LIKE TO HANDLE THAT QUESTION? YEAH. SO I THINK IT WAS 2017, I'D ACTUALLY LOOKED AT THE REPORT.

IT'S IN THE ONE IN THE SECOND CASE, BUT THEY REQUESTED LIKE A SIMILAR SIZE SIGN AND IT WAS DENIED BACK THEN.

SO. YEAH.

WALMART CAN'T GET A BREAK AROUND HERE.

I MEAN, PUTTING THAT WALMART STORE IN WAS A WAS A HUGE POLITICAL FIGHT.

YEAH. IS MICHIGAN FIRST FOR PROFIT OR NOT FOR PROFIT? DO WE KNOW? MOST CREDIT UNIONS ARE NOT FOR PROFIT, BUT THIS ONE LOOKS LIKE IT MIGHT BE FOR PROFIT.

IT'S REALLY NOT RELEVANT TO THIS DISCUSSION.

BUT JUST CURIOUS. WHEN SOMEBODY FINDS OUT, LET US KNOW.

WELL, IF NONE OF OUR OTHER BOARD MEMBERS HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD, I THINK I'M GOING TO GO AHEAD AND TRY TO TACKLE THE CRITERIA.

AND OF COURSE, WHILE DOING SO, IF SOMETHING COMES UP, LET ME KNOW.

CRITERIA NUMBER ONE WOULD BE UNIQUE.

CIRCUMSTANCES EXIST THAT ARE PECULIAR TO LAND OR STRUCTURE THAT ARE NOT APPLICABLE TO OTHER LAND OR STRUCTURES IN THE SAME ZONING DISTRICT.

AND THE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE NOT SELF-CREATED.

AGAIN, I CAN MEET THAT ONE.

I THINK THAT WE'VE ALL DISCUSSED THE FACT THAT THIS BEING A BUSINESS INSIDE OF THE BUSINESS IS PUTS IT AT A DIFFERENT RATE THAN OTHER BUSINESSES, AS MEMBER DESCHAINE MENTIONED, LIKE IN A STRIP MALL OR SOMETHING.

THE SECOND CRITERIA BEING STRICT INTERPRETATION AND ENFORCEMENT OF THE LITERAL TERMS AND PROVISIONS OF THIS CHAPTER WOULD RESULT IN PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES THAT WOULD PREVENT THE OWNER FROM USING THE PROPERTY FOR A PERMITTED PURPOSE.

AGAIN, I THINK AS WE'VE DISCUSSED, I CAN MEET THAT CRITERIA.

CRITERIA THREE GRANTING THE VARIANCE IS THE MINIMUM ACTION NECESSARY, WHICH WOULD CARRY OUT THE SPIRIT OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE, SECURE PUBLIC SAFETY AND PROVIDE SUBSTANTIAL JUSTICE. I DO AGREE THAT THIS IS A MINIMUM ACTION, ESPECIALLY KNOWING, TOO, THAT IT'S GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT SMALLER EVEN.

THAT SAID, I DO THINK THAT IT IS A PUBLIC SAFETY CONCERN FOR THE PARKING LOT.

SO THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I'M LANDING.

I THINK EVERYBODY ELSE ON THE BOARD KIND OF FELT THE SAME.

SO THAT CRITERIA CAN BE MET.

CRITERIA NUMBER FOUR WOULD BE GRANTING THE VARIANCE WOULD NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT ADJACENT LAND OR THE ESSENTIAL CHARACTER IN THE VICINITY OF THE PROPERTY.

AND AGAIN, I CAN MEET THAT CRITERIA.

I THINK IT WILL ONLY HELP THE ADJACENT LAND AND ESSENTIAL CHARACTER, ESPECIALLY WITH HAVING LESS CHALLENGES IN THAT PARKING LOT, BEING ABLE TO SEE THAT SIGN CLEARLY.

AND CRITERIA NUMBER FIVE IS GRANTING.

THE VARIANCE WILL BE GENERALLY CONSISTENT WITH PUBLIC INTEREST AND THE PURPOSES AND INTENT OF THIS CHAPTER.

AND I CAN MEET THAT CRITERIA AS WELL.

SO ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, CONCERNS ON THOSE CRITERIA AS READ.

ALL RIGHT. WELL DONE.

ANYBODY CARE TO MAKE A MOTION? ANYBODY? ANYBODY? OKAY, FINE.

I'LL MAKE THE MOTION. MOTION TO APPROVE THE VARIANCE FOR MY COMPUTER WENT OFF, AND I CAN'T FIND THE NUMBER

[00:20:01]

ALL RIGHT. WAY TO GET IN THERE.

I LIKE IT. ALL RIGHT.

THIS IS A THIS IS A VOTE TO APPROVE THE VARIANCE FOR CASE NUMBER 23-05.

SO YOUR VARIANCE HAS BEEN APPROVED.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU FOR COMING, SIR.

HAVE A GREAT NIGHT. THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT.

WITH THAT, WE CAN MOVE ON.

I'M SORRY. I'D LIKE TO MAKE THAT NOTE SO I CAN PUT IT UP AGAINST THE MINUTES, JUST IN CASE.

WITH THAT, I'M JUST.

I'M JUST TESTING IT. I USUALLY WRITE IT DOWN, BUT NOW I'M TRYING TO BE FANCY.

BUT THAT'S ALL RIGHT.

IN THAT CASE, WE WILL MOVE ON TO THE SECOND CASE IN OUR AGENDA, WHICH IS CASE NUMBER 20 3-065110.

[6.B. ZBA CASE NO. 23-06 (5110 Times Square), Massa Multimedia Architecture, 3297 Route 66, Neptune, NJ 07753]

AND MR. CHAPMAN, GO FOR IT.

OKAY, SO THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING TO INSTALL ADDITIONAL WALL SIGNS ON THE WEST FACADE AT 5110 TIMES SQUARE DRIVE IN 2000, THE ZBA GRANTED A VARIANCE THAT PERMITTED SIX WALL SIGNS.

THEY'RE LISTED HERE ON THIS CHART.

SO TWO OF THE SIGNS.

DESCRIBED ABOVE.

OH, SORRY. SIGNS ONE AND TWO WERE INSTALLED ON THE BUILDING.

THE FOUR MANUAL SIGNS APPROVED OF THE VARIANCE REQUEST WERE NOT INSTALLED AND EXPIRED.

AND THEN IN 2014, THE ZBA GRANTED A VARIANCE TO ALLOW FOR FOUR WALL SIGNS WHICH ARE SUMMARIZED IN THIS CHART. AND THE ZONING ORDINANCE ONLY ALLOWS FOR ONE WALL SIGN ON THE BUILDING'S FRONT FACADE, WITH THE SIZE EQUIVALENT TO ONE SQUARE FOOT FOR EACH LINEAL FOOT OF BUILDING FRONTAGE OCCUPIED.

THE WALMART IS APPROXIMATELY 500FT IN LENGTH, ALLOWING ONE WALL SIGN UP TO 500FT² IN SIZE.

SO THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING TO INSTALL EIGHT NEW WALL SIGNS ON THE BUILDING.

ALTHOUGH THERE WERE FOUR SIGNS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED THE SIZES TO CHANGE ON THEM.

SO THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING TO INSTALL FOUR ADDITIONAL WALL SIGNS IN THE WEST ELEVATION WHERE THERE ARE FOUR CURRENTLY LOCATED IN 2018.

VARIANCE WAS DENIED.

LIKE I SAID PREVIOUSLY, FOR THE INSTALLATION OF ONE NEW WALL SIGN FOR MICHIGAN FIRST CREDIT UNION ON THE WEST SIDE TO THE SOUTH OF THE MAIN ENTRANCE DOOR AT APPROXIMATELY 20.65FT² IN SIZE.

AND THAT'S ALL I HAVE. OKAY.

THANK YOU, MR. CHAPMAN, WITH THE APPLICANT OR THE APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATIVE WOULD LIKE TO COME UP AND SPEAK ON THIS CASE.

HELLO, SIR. JUST STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD, PLEASE.

SURE. IT'S EDWARD DANZER AT 3297 ROUTE 66, NEPTUNE, NEW JERSEY.

MANSOUR MULTIMEDIA ARCHITECTS.

AND WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO ADD TO WHAT MR. CHAPMAN? CURRENTLY WALMART IS GOING THROUGH, UPDATING THEIR ELEVATIONS WITH PAINTING AND STUFF, AND WE'RE ALSO UPDATING OUR WAYFARING SIGNS.

SO WE ARE CHANGING THE MAIN ID SIGN, WHICH IS ACTUALLY REDUCING IN SIZE.

WE'RE ALSO GOING TO LIKE TO CHANGE THE AUTOCARE SIGN AUTO CENTER SIGN TO AUTO CARE AND THE TWO TIRE SIGNS THAT ARE EXISTING ON THE SOUTH CORNER.

ALL OF THEM ARE ACTUALLY REDUCING A LITTLE BIT IN SQUARE FOOTAGE DUE TO FONT CHANGES.

OKAY. WHAT WE'RE ASKING TO ADD IS ADDITIONAL WAYFINDING SIGNS.

THAT WOULD BE A PICKUP SIGN ON THE SOUTH ELEVATION TOWARDS THE NORTH CORNER TO PICK UP WITH AN ARROW.

THAT IS TO DIRECT THE TRAFFIC AND THE CUSTOMERS TO WHERE THE PICKUP PARKING IS.

THAT'S KIND OF BECOMING A BIG PORTION OF RETAIL BUSINESS NOW IS ONLINE PICKUP WHERE YOU PLACE YOUR ORDER AND YOU GO AND PICK IT UP AND THEY BRING IT TO YOUR CAR.

SO THAT SIGN RIGHT THERE IS TO DIRECT YOU TO WHERE THE PARKING IS.

THEY'RE ALSO LIKE TO ADD OIL CHANGE OVER BAY DOOR NUMBER ONE AND NUMERALS ONE, TWO AND THREE OVER THE BAY DOORS.

AGAIN, THIS IS LIKE STATED BEFORE.

[00:25:02]

OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE THAT MR. CHAPMAN SAID THAT THAT YOU FEEL THE NEED TO ADDRESS? OKAY. IF YOU WOULD STAY RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE IN CASE WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, THAT'D BE GREAT.

YOU SAID MR. DANZA? YES.

OKAY, GREAT. ALL RIGHT, THEN I WILL GO AHEAD AND CLOSE PUBLIC COMMENT.

IF THERE IS NO ONE ELSE IN OUR LOVELY AUDIENCE TODAY AND GO RIGHT INTO BOARD TIME.

ANYBODY WANT TO GET STARTED? I WILL JUST START BY SAYING I FEEL LIKE MAYBE THIS IS A MR. CHAPMAN QUESTION.

THE FOUR SIGNS THAT ARE EXISTING, THEY ARE CHANGING BECAUSE IT'S JUST A CHANGE IN BRAND, BUT THE SIZES ARE CHANGING.

SO THAT'S WHY THEY NEED TO.

THEY'RE TEN YEARS OLD, SO THEY LIKE TO CHANGE THEM OUT EVERY TEN YEARS.

YES. NO, I KNOW. I'M JUST MY QUESTION IS MORE THOSE SIGNS IN PARTICULAR ARE NOT THE ONES WE'RE LOOKING AT.

YEAH. SO IF THE SIGNS UNLESS THEY'RE GETTING BIGGER, THEN WE'RE NOT WORRIED ABOUT IT LIKE BIGGER AND IN A DIFFERENT LOCATION.

SO AS LONG AS THEY STAY THE SAME SIZE, THEN THAT'S OKAY.

OR SMALLER OR SMALLER.

YES. SO LIKE, FOR INSTANCE, WE ARE WE ARE ACTUALLY JUST LOOKING AT.

JUST JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR WHAT IT IS THAT WE ARE.

WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS THE NUMBER.

SEE, IT SAYS THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING TO INSTALL EIGHT NEW WALL SIGNS, BUT.

IT SAYS, BECAUSE THEIR SIZES HAVE CHANGED.

BUT WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THOSE.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE REQUEST TO INSTALL THE FOUR ADDITIONAL SIZE.

THAT IS WHAT THE VARIANT THAT'S WHAT THE REQUEST IS FOR.

CORRECT. OKAY. I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR.

ONES ARE SMALLER IN THE SAME LOCATION.

SO WE ARE TALKING JUST ABOUT.

OIL CHANGE, NUMBER ONE.

NUMBER TWO AND NUMBER THREE.

YEAH. OKAY.

I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR, BECAUSE WHEN I LOOKED AT THAT CHART TOGETHER, IT'S LIKE, OH, WAIT, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT ALL OF THEM? BUT ARE NOT? SO THE PICKUP ONE IS PICKUP ONE IS.

YEAH. SO WHAT IS ONE OF THEM IS SWITCHING OUT FROM TIRE.

OKAY. SO WE'RE LOSING ONE OF THE TIRES.

OKAY. NO, WE HAVE TWO TIRES AND THE TIRE IN AN OIL CHANGE, RIGHT? NO, NO. IF YOU LOOK AT THE SCHEDULE ON THE DRAWINGS, IT HAS TWO TIRE SIGNS.

SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NINE SIGNS.

NINE SIGNS. EIGHT SIGNS.

REALLY? OKAY.

SO WE'RE ADDING FIVE SIGNS, CORRECT? OKAY. OKAY.

THAT WAS MY BAD. ALL RIGHT.

I'M GLAD WE'RE DISCUSSING THAT.

OKAY. I SEE AUTOCARE.

I SEE THE ONE, TWO, THREE.

I SEE THE OIL CHANGE.

WHERE'S THE TIRE ONE AND TIRE TWO? THEY'RE OVER THE TWO SMALLER DOORS RIGHT HERE.

THEY'RE EXISTING. OH, I SEE.

OKAY. THEY'RE SMALLER.

OKAY. I SEE. THEY'RE NOT CHANGING IN SIZE.

RIGHT? THEY'RE GETTING. THEY'RE ACTUALLY REDUCING.

YEAH. SO THEY'RE GETTING SMALLER.

OKAY. OKAY.

ON THAT ELEVATION, IT WOULD BE THE ONE, TWO AND THREE.

AND THE OIL CHANGE ARE THE SIGNS THAT WE'RE ADDING AND THEN THE PICKUP ON THE OTHER ELEVATION.

OKAY.

I TEND TO LOOK AT THIS AND SAY I UNDERSTAND IT FROM A FROM A SENSE OF A DIRECTIONAL, LIKE MR. DANZA SAID, WAYFINDING SCENARIO.

BUT THIS IS A THIS IS MORE THAN DOUBLE WHAT IS EXISTING ON THE BUILDING.

SO THAT'S WHERE I START GETTING INTO THAT MINIMAL ACTION.

AND IS THIS MINIMAL? IS THIS ALL ALL OF THESE THINGS NECESSARY? ARE THE NUMBERS ONE, TWO AND THREE NECESSARY? WE HAVE OIL CHANGE OVER ONE TIRE, OVER ONE AND TIRE OVER TWO.

I'M AN AVID PICKUP SHOPPER AND I'VE FOUND THE WALMART PARKING LOT ACTUALLY TO BE THE EASIEST ONE TO NAVIGATE BECAUSE IT HAS THOSE WONDERFUL SIGNS RIGHT IN THE PARKING LOT OF WHERE YOU PULL UP TO MUCH LIKE TARGET.

TARGET SIMILARLY DOESN'T HAVE A SIGN ON THE ON THE BUILDING AND THE PICKUP AREA IS PRETTY CLEARLY DESIGNATED.

SO I GUESS WHAT I'M LOOKING AT IS, IS THERE A WAY TO MINIMIZE A BIT BECAUSE AGAIN, WE GET TO NOW WE HAVE NINE SIGNS AND.

WE'RE CONTENT NEUTRAL. SO THOSE SIGNS POTENTIALLY CAN CHANGE INTO DIFFERENT IS IT THE NUMBERS OVER THE BAYS TOO MUCH?

[00:30:06]

THEN WE'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT AN ADDITIONAL TWO SIGNS.

BECAUSE OF THAT.

THAT TO ME IS HELPFUL.

HOW DOES ANYBODY ELSE FEEL ABOUT THE NUMBER OR ANY CONCERNS OR COMMENTS ON THOSE? YEAH, I WAS GOING TO ASK THAT SAME QUESTION ABOUT THE NUMBER ONE, TWO AND THREE.

IF TO ME, THE IF YOU LOOK AT THE AUTO CARE SIGN THAT'S ON THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING KIND OF DIRECTING PEOPLE AROUND TO THE BACK, IT'S ALMOST I HATE TO SAY IT, IT'S ALMOST TOO SMALL TO BE SEEN FROM KIND OF THE ROAD AREA AND THAT.

BUT I'M NOT ASKING YOU TO INCREASE THAT SIZE, BUT.

YEAH, I HAD THE SAME QUESTION ABOUT THE ONE, TWO AND THREE, IF THAT COULD BE IF THAT'S NECESSARY AT ALL.

AND IF YOU HAVE TIRE THERE NOW AND IF YOU HAVE BUSINESS COMING THROUGH THERE, PEOPLE USING IT, I DON'T THINK THEY'RE GOING TO, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO LOSE ANY BUSINESS IF YOU DON'T HAVE A NUMBER ONE, TWO AND THREE UP THERE IS WHAT I'M SAYING, BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE ALREADY USING IT.

NOW YOU JUST NEED TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN TIRE BAYS AND OIL CHANGE BAYS.

I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THAT.

SO I WAS AGREEING WITH YOUR WITH THE CHAIR'S QUESTION ON THAT AS WELL.

I MEAN, AGAIN, THIS IS THEIR NEW PROTOTYPE LOOK WITH THEIR SIGNAGE, IF THAT'S TOO MUCH, I MEAN, IF THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO HOLD US BACK, THEN, YOU KNOW, WE CAN ALTER THE SIGNS TO NOT HAVE THOSE IF WE NEED TO GET IT THROUGH THAT WAY.

I DO THINK.

THE PICKUP SIGN ON THE FRONT AGAIN IS A WAYFARING SIGN I CAN SEE THE ARGUMENT FOR.

EVEN MORE SO THAN PROBABLY ALL OF THE DIRECTIONAL SIGNS ON THE BAYS.

BUT REMOVING THOSE NUMBERS DEFINITELY HELPS US GET FROM THEN SUDDENLY WE'RE GOING FROM 5 TO 2, WHICH I HAVE A LOT LESS CHALLENGE WITH MEETING. AS FAR AS A MINIMAL ACTION GOES, I WOULD CONCUR.

THIS SIDE OF THE STORE IS THE LEAST VIEWED VIEWED OF THE THREE STORES, PUBLIC SIDES AND OBVIOUSLY THE BACK SIDE NO ONE SEES.

BUT SO I FIND THAT THAT HELPS ME TO APPROVE THE THREE NEW SIGNS THERE.

IF THE NUMBERS CAN REMOVE, THAT IS LESS OF A CHANGE.

AND I AGREE WITH THE CHAIR THAT THE WAYFARING SIGN FOR THE PICKUP WOULD BE ALLOWABLE AND COMMERCE IS CHANGING FROM TEN YEARS AGO.

PICKUP IS A REAL THING FOR EVERY STORE THESE DAYS.

IT'S HELPFUL. OKAY.

SO WE HAVE I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH REMOVING THOSE NUMBERS IF THAT'S WHAT I NEED TO DO TO GET US APPROVED TONIGHT.

YEAH. ANYBODY ELSE? QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS REGARDING THE SIZES? I MEAN, I THINK THIS THE SIZES TO ME I HAVE NO CONCERN WITH ESPECIALLY SINCE A LOT OF WE'RE COMING DOWN LIKE YOU SAID, AND CHANGING FONTS AND BRANDING ARE COMING DOWN A BIT IN SIZE. I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.

AND WE'RE SITTING PRETTY WELL UNDER WHAT THEY'RE ALLOTTED FOR THE FRONTAGE OF THE BUSINESS.

EVEN WITH THE NUMBERS, WE'RE ONLY GOING INCREASING THE SIGNAGE OVERALL IN THE BUILDING 30FT².

RIGHT, RIGHT. YEAH, I FIND THAT TO BE HELPFUL.

AS FAR AS WHAT WE'RE AND THERE ARE ROUGHLY FIVE SQUARE FEET EACH, SO WE'RE JUST GOING OVER THAT.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO REMOVE THEM.

NOW, WE'RE ONLY GOING OVER 15FT², RIGHT? YEAH. AND THAT'S STILL WIDELY UNDER WHAT THE FRONTAGE IS.

YEAH. MEMBER. KOENIG. I JUST WANT TO SAY A REDUNDANT COMMENT AND AGREE WITH THE REST OF THE BOARD THAT I DO AGREE.

I DO LIKE THE PICKUP SIGN BECAUSE I MOVED HERE FROM FLORIDA SEVERAL YEARS AGO AND WHEN COVID CAME A LOT OF THE PLACES THEY JUST WERE PUTTING OUT LIKE THE SIGNS IN THE PARKING LOTS AND NOBODY KNEW WHERE THE WORLD TO GO.

SO AT LEAST HAVING SOMETHING ON THE BUILDING SAYING, HEY, YOU NEED TO GO TO THIS SIDE OF THE BUILDING VERSUS THIS SIDE.

I LIKE THAT FEATURE.

SO I WAS AGREEING WITH YOU.

I KNOW IT'S REDUNDANT COMMENT, BUT I WAS JUST AGREEING WITH YOU BECAUSE A LOT OF BIGGER STORES OUT THERE.

I LIKE TO BE AGREED WITH THE RECORD.

A LOT OF BIGGER STORES.

I MEAN, EVEN IF YOU LOOK AT LIKE LIKE THE BUDDY'S PIZZA, THAT'S RIGHT OUT HERE, THEY JUST HAVE THE KIND OF PICKUP SIGNS THEY DON'T PICK UP ON THEIR DOOR.

BUT UNLESS YOU DRIVE UP THERE, IT'S REALLY HARD TO SEE.

SO I APPRECIATE ADDING THAT SO THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE THAT WHEN THEY DRIVE UP.

YEAH, NOT TO BE REDUNDANT AGAIN, BUT PRETTY MUCH AGREE WITH EVERYTHING.

THE ONE, TWO AND THREE SEEMS A BIT OVERKILL, ESPECIALLY ONCE YOU ALREADY HAVE THE OIL CHANGE TIRE TIRE.

BUT YEAH, PICKUP SEEMS REALLY REASONABLE.

ALL RIGHT. WELL, SINCE EVERYBODY AGREES WITH ME, I'M JUST GOING TO GO AHEAD AND READ THE CRITERIA.

LET'S GO FOR IT.

AND THIS WOULD BE FOR WITH WITH THE THOUGHT AND THE AGREEMENT OF THE BOARD AT LARGE THAT THE ONE, TWO AND THREE IS REDUNDANT, BUT WITH AGREEMENT THAT AUTOCARE AND PICKUP ARE ADDING, THOSE IS WHAT WE'RE WHAT WE ARE LOOKING TO APPROVE THIS CRITERIA THROUGH THAT LENS.

[00:35:03]

UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES EXIST THAT ARE PECULIAR TO THE LAND OR STRUCTURE THAT ARE NOT APPLICABLE TO OTHER LAND OR STRUCTURES IN THE SAME ZONING DISTRICT.

AND THESE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE NOT SELF-CREATED.

AGAIN, JUST LIKE OUR FRIEND OVER ON GRAND RIVER MYER, WE ARE LOOKING AT A MULTIFUNCTIONAL BUILDING.

SO I DO THINK THAT THOSE THOSE ARE MORE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES, GENERALLY SPEAKING, TO APPLY THE CRITERIA TO THE ORDINANCE TO JUST A DIFFERENT JUST A DIFFERENT BEAST.

SO I CAN MEET THAT CRITERIA.

CRITERIA NUMBER TWO WOULD BE STRICT INTERPRETATION AND ENFORCEMENT OF THE LITERAL TERMS AND PROVISIONS OF THIS CHAPTER WOULD RESULT IN THE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES THAT WOULD PREVENT THE OWNER FROM USING THE PROPERTY FOR A PERMITTED PURPOSE.

ALSO CAN MEET THAT CRITERIA.

I DO UNDERSTAND, AS WE'VE SPOKEN ABOUT, THE PICKUP AREA BEING A NEWER PHENOMENON THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT AND UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT KIND OF WAYFARING SIGN ON THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING, YOU KNOW, BEING DESIGNATED TO KIND OF POINT PEOPLE IN THE PROPER DIRECTION, WHETHER IT STAYS PICKUP OR NOT WILL STILL BE USEFUL ON A BUILDING THIS LARGE.

ALSO AGREE WITH THE OTHER WAYFARING SIGN THAT WE'RE REFERRING TO.

AND I THINK NOT KNOWING WHERE THOSE DESIGNATED AREAS ARE COULD PREVENT OR COULD CAUSE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES FOR THIS PARTICULAR BUSINESS.

SO I CAN MEET CRITERIA NUMBER TWO.

CRITERIA NUMBER THREE WOULD BE GRANTING THIS VARIANCE.

IS THE MINIMUM ACTION NECESSARY TO CARRY OUT THE SPIRIT OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE, SECURE PUBLIC SAFETY AND PROVIDE SUBSTANTIAL JUSTICE.

I THINK REDUCING OUR NUMBER OF SIGNS FROM 5 TO 2 ABSOLUTELY MET THE MINIMUM ACTION FOR ME, AGAIN, AS WE'VE SAID, WE'VE STILL UNDER THE SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT IS ALLOWABLE BASED ON THE ELEVATION OF THE STORE AND ALL OF THESE SIGNS COMING IN AT SLIGHTLY UNDER WHAT THEY WHAT THEY EVEN USED TO BE IS REPLACING THE THE ONES THAT ARE EXISTING.

I THINK WE'RE MEETING THE MINIMUM ACTION QUITE NICELY SO I CAN APPROVE OR MEET THAT CRITERIA.

CRITERIA NUMBER FOUR WOULD BE GRANTING THE VARIANCE WILL NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT ADJACENT LAND OR THE ESSENTIAL CHARACTER IN THE VICINITY OF THE PROPERTY.

AND I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT.

I CAN MEET THAT CRITERIA.

NUMBER FIVE IS GRANTING THE VARIANCE WILL BE GENERALLY CONSISTENT WITH PUBLIC INTEREST AND THE PURPOSES AND INTENT OF THIS CHAPTER, WHICH AGAIN, I CAN MEET THAT CRITERIA.

ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ABOUT THE CRITERIA? ALL RIGHT. WELL, IN THAT CASE.

ANYBODY WANT TO SAY I CAN MAKE A MOTION? ALL RIGHT. I MOVE APPROVAL OF CASE NUMBER 23-06510 TIMES SQUARE.

MASSIVE MULTIMEDIA ARCHITECTURE 3290 ROUTE 66.

[INAUDIBLE], NEW JERSEY 07753.

WITH THE DELETION OF THE NUMBER ONE, NUMBER TWO AND NUMBER THREE SIGNS.

SUPPORT.

ALL RIGHT. IN THAT CASE, THIS IS A RATHER, I SHOULD SAY.

YOU HAVE ANY DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION AS PRESENTED GOING DOWN FROM THE FIVE TO THE TWO? ALL RIGHT. AND THAT CASE, WE WILL GO AHEAD AND TAKE A VOTE.

THIS WOULD BE A VOTE TO APPROVE THE APPROVED ZBA CASE NUMBER 23-06 WITH THE REMOVAL OF SIGNS ONE, TWO AND THREE.

YOUR VARIANCE HAS BEEN APPROVED.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. DANZA. HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.

YOU TOO. THANK YOU.

THANK YOU. THE WEATHER OUT THERE.

THANK YOU FOR BEING FLEXIBLE. YES.

YES. THAT'S GOOD TO KNOW.

THAT ALMOST NEVER HAPPENS.

OH, MY GOSH. WELL, YES, MICHIGAN IS BALMY.

EMBARRASSING. RIGHT.

THANKS FOR BEING HERE TONIGHT. YEAH.

WE APPRECIATE YOU. THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT.

SO I REACHED OUT TO THE APPLICANT FOR THE THIRD CASE.

YEAH, I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING.

SO IT'S UP TO YOU GUYS.

UM, OKAY, WELL, I.

DOES ANYBODY MAYBE BEFORE WE GET INTO NEW BUSINESS, DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS THAT MAY INVOLVE THE APPLICANT THAT WE NEED TO QUESTION? IN READING THIS CASE, I DIDN'T REALLY.

I CAN HELP. I MEAN, I KNOW.

YEAH, I DIDN'T HAVE ANY, I HAVE A COUPLE OF SMALL QUESTIONS, BUT I THINK YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO ANSWER THEM QUITE NICELY.

I DON'T KNOW, I WOULD FEEL BAD NOT ALLOWING THEM A CHANCE TO SPEAK IF THEY WANTED TO.

MEMBER KOENIG I GUESS THE QUESTION THERE, KEITH, HAVE YOU HEARD FROM ANYBODY LIKE AGAINST THIS AT ALL OR FOR THIS? NOTHING. YEAH.

NO, I DON'T I DON'T SEE AN ISSUE WITH US GOING FORWARD, BUT I WOULD I'M NOT WORRIED IS NOT THE PROPER TERM, BUT I WOULD

[00:40:03]

BE ABLE TO COMMENT. YEAH.

YOU PROBABLY ALREADY KNOW THEIR COMMENTS.

YEAH. BUT WITHOUT THEM HAVING THE CHANCE TO PUT THEM ON THE RECORD, I'M KIND OF GOING YEAH, IT WOULDN'T HURT TO POSTPONE IT, BUT IF WE WANTED BASED ON YOUR DECISION, MS. CHAIR, IF WE WANTED TO PROCEED WITH IT, WE PROBABLY COULD.

YEAH, I SUPPOSE WE CAN DISCUSS IT AND WE CAN TABLE IT.

WE'RE HERE. SO WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT IT AND TABLE IT IF WE WANT FOR A VOTE.

AND THEN THAT WAY IF WE DO HAVE ANY CONCERNS OR QUESTIONS, WE CAN BRING IT UP WITH THEM IF THEY'RE ABLE TO ATTEND THE NEXT MEETING.

OKAY. WELL, THEN LET'S GO AHEAD AND WE WILL DISCUSS CASE NUMBER [INAUDIBLE]. CASE NUMBER 23-07 NOB HILL APARTMENTS, LLC 2502.

[6.C. ZBA CASE NO. 23-07 (Knob Hill Apartments, LLC), 2502 Lake Lansing Road, Suite C, Lansing, MI 48912]

48916. MR. CHAPMAN, WHAT DO YOU GOT? SO THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A VARIANCE TO ALLOW FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF AN APARTMENT BUILDING LOCATED AT 2300 NOB HILL DRIVE.

THIS 41 UNIT APARTMENT BUILDING WILL REPLACE THE TWO BUILDINGS THAT WERE DESTROYED BY FIRE IN DECEMBER OF 2022.

STAFF WORKED WITH THE APPLICANT TO COME UP WITH THE MOST VIABLE OPTION.

THAT REQUIRES THE LEAST NUMBER OF VARIANCES.

SO BASICALLY BECAUSE THE BUILDING WAS SO OLD, OUR ORDINANCE REQUIREMENTS WERE QUITE DIFFERENT BACK IN 1970. SO SECTION 86 37644I REQUIRES THAT ANY MULTIPLE FAMILY BUILDING BE 20FT FROM THE PARKING LOT AREA.

AND AT ITS CLOSEST POINT, THIS PROPOSED BUILDING WOULD BE EIGHT FEET FROM THE PARKING LOT, WHICH WOULD BE 12FT INTO THAT 20 FOOT BUILDING SETBACK.

AND I CAN SHOW YOU WHERE EXACTLY THAT IS.

SO IT'D BE RIGHT IN THIS AREA RIGHT HERE.

BUT THERE ARE OTHER AREAS THAT ARE WITHIN THAT 20FT AS WELL.

KEITH. THEY USE THIS SITE.

THEY TURN THIS BUILDING.

YES. OKAY. IF THEY USE THE OLD FOOTPRINT, IT WOULD THEY STILL BE NEED A VARIANCE.

SO IF THEY USE THE OLD FOOTPRINT, THEY NEED A VARIANCE BECAUSE THE BUILDINGS WOULD BE TOO CLOSE TOGETHER.

THEY HAVE TO BE 25FT APART.

AND I THINK THEY WERE ONLY.

LET ME SEE IF I HAVE THE OTHER SURVEY.

WELL, YOU CAN SEE HERE HOW CLOSE THEY ARE.

SO THESE ARE ACTUALLY SEPARATE BUILDINGS.

BUT THERE THEY WERE TOUCHING, BUT THEY HAD LIKE THERE WAS LIKE AN OVERHANG IN BETWEEN.

RIGHT. SO THEY LOOKED CONNECTED, BUT THEY WEREN'T REALLY.

BUT THEY WERE CLOSE ENOUGH.

YEAH. YEAH. MY QUESTION WOULD BE, ARE THERE ARE ANY OF THE OTHER BUILDINGS THAT CLOSE TO THE PARKING AREA JUST IN? UM. IT'S HARD TO REALLY MEASURE OUT HERE.

BUT RIGHT NOW, I'M JUST JUST JUST CURIOUS BECAUSE I'M CURIOUS IF THAT'S NEWER BECAUSE THAT, LIKE WHERE YOUR CURSOR IS, THAT BUILDING.

YEAH. I MEAN, THAT LOOKS PRETTY COOL.

THAT LOOKS PRETTY CLOSE. THE ONE ABOVE, IT LOOKS PRETTY CLOSE IN THAT CORNER.

I'M JUST CURIOUS BECAUSE.

WELL, AND THEN I GUESS, ARE THESE OVERHANGS TO THE TO THE RIGHT KIND OF THIS DIRECTION? THIS IS STILL DOWNHILL, RIGHT? THAT'S STILL YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

ARE THOSE OVERHANGS THAT LOOKS REALLY CLOSE TO THAT PARKING AREA AS WELL.

OH, RIGHT HERE. YEAH.

YEAH, YEAH, THAT IS TRUE.

SO I GUESS MY WONDER IS BECAUSE THEY'RE REPLACING WHAT IS LOST AND GETTING.

TO A POINT WHERE THE ONLY THING TO BRING IT UP TO MODERN CODE TO MAKE IT ACCESSIBLE, TO GET FAMILIES BACK INTO THIS LIVING SPACE.

WE HAVE ONE VARIANCE.

AND IT'S BASED ON CLOSENESS OF PARKING AREA.

AND WE CAN SEE OTHER BUILDINGS WITHIN THIS COMPLEX THAT ARE ALREADY PRETTY CLOSE TO THE PARKING AREA.

MY WONDER IS IF THAT IF THAT IS IT FEELS TO ME LIKE A MINIMAL ACTION, A MINIMUM ACTION, I SHOULD SAY.

BUT. ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE REST OF THE BUILD.

RIGHT. THE CURRENT INFRASTRUCTURE, WHICH WOULD NEED VARIANCES ALL OVER THE PLACE.

[00:45:07]

IS IT ME OR DOES THIS SEEM OVER PARKED TO ANYONE ELSE? ARE THEY ADDING MORE PARKING THAN THEY REALLY NEED? FOR ONE THING, IT'S FOR PARKING.

NUMBERS I THINK ARE UP MORE THAN THEY WERE.

ALSO WHILE WE'RE TRYING TO RETURN THOSE BACK.

YEAH, BUT I WONDER.

THAT WOULD EXPAND THEIR PARKING LOT AT ONE POINT TOWARDS THIS WETLAND UP HERE, BUT I'M NOT SURE ON THEIR EXACT NUMBER.

THIS BUILDING IS 44 UNITS.

HOW MANY WERE LOST IN THE OLD BUILT TWO BUILDINGS, I WONDER.

I THINK IT'S PRETTY CLOSE TO THE SAME.

LET'S SEE. I DIDN'T SEE THAT IN THE PACKET, BUT THAT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION.

IT DID SEEM LIKE IN THE PACKET THAT IT WAS REPLACING.

BRINGING BACK THE RESIDENTS LOST TO THE FIRE.

THAT TO ME SOUNDS LIKE THEY ARE REPLACING WHAT WAS LOST LIKE FOR LIKE.

YEAH. IRONICALLY, I WONDER IF HAVING THESE CARS TOO CLOSE TO THE PARKING LOT IS NOT IN AND OF ITSELF A FIRE HAZARD.

WELL, THAT WOULD BE A QUESTION I WOULD HAVE AS WELL.

WHAT WAS THE IMPLICATION OF THAT, THAT BUILDING DURING THE FIRE? IS IT SOMETHING THAT DOES NEED TO BE LOOKED AT? BUT THAT'S AN APPLICANT QUESTION THAT I GUESS THAT WOULD BE IT WAS NOT A CAR FIRE THAT STARTED THE FIRE.

YEAH, NO, WE KNOW THAT.

BUT WONDERING WHAT THAT DAMAGE WAS LIKE OR WHAT THAT MIGHT HAVE ADDED TO OR NOT MAYBE IT WASN'T A FACTOR AT ALL.

YEAH, BUT.

OH, YOU'RE SAYING THE SURROUNDING CARS? YEAH. IF BEING CLOSE TO THE BUILDING BECAUSE LOOKING AT THE FIRST KIND OF THAT DEMO PICTURE THAT YOU SHOWED, IT LOOKS LIKE THEY WERE PRETTY THE PARKING WAS.

WELL IT'S, WELL, MAYBE NOT AS CLOSE AS SOME OF THE OTHER BUILDINGS, BUT I THINK MORE OF THE CONCERN IS ABOUT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF THIS WERE TO CATCH FIRE AGAIN IN THE OTHER BUILDING.

CORRECT. SPREAD NEXT TO IT.

YEAH. AND WHAT IS THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THOSE TWO BUILDINGS FOR THE NEW ONE OR THE NEW ONE? 25, 25FT BETWEEN THE NEW BUILDING AND ONE OF THE EXISTING BUILDINGS.

YEAH. AND THAT'S WHAT'S RIGHT HERE.

YEAH. OKAY.

AND THAT'S WITHIN CODE, CORRECT.

YEAH. THAT'S WHY THE BUILDING IS ANGLED AWAY SO IT CAN BE AS FAR AS POSSIBLE.

YEAH, THIS WOULD BE AN ASKING QUESTION, BUT IF YOU SCROLL TO THE RIGHT JUST A LITTLE BIT.

I DO WONDER IF THEY'VE LOOKED AT GETTING RID OF LIKE YOU COULD CLEAR THE TOP PORTION IF YOU JUST GET RID OF FIVE PARKING SPACES. I DO WONDER IF THEY'VE CONSIDERED THAT OR LOOKED AT THAT.

AND LIKE YOU SAID, THERE MIGHT BE TOO MUCH PARKING, YOU KNOW, MORE THAN THEY NEED.

OBVIOUSLY AN ASKING QUESTION, BUT IT'S SOMETHING TO CONSIDER AND THINK ABOUT.

YEAH, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE, BUT I'M THINKING THEY GOT TO BE BASED ON HOW OUR PARKING ORDINANCES THEY GOT TO BE CLOSE TO.

YEAH, LIKE THE MINIMUM, SO.

WELL, AND IF STAFF WORKED WITH THEM ON GETTING IT TO ONLY ONE VARIANCE, THEY'VE GOT TO HAVE MET THE PARKING BECAUSE OTHERWISE THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A VARIANCE AS WELL.

EITHER MINIMAL OR MAXIMIZING.

YEAH. IF THEY WERE BELOW.

DOES THE TOWNSHIP HAVE A MAXIMUM PARKING OR DOES THIS HAVE A MINIMUM PARKING? JUST A MIN. YEAH. WHAT IS THE MINIMUM? THE MINIMUM PER UNIT? PER UNIT. YEAH. THAT'S PRETTY TYPICAL.

YEAH. SO TWO PER UNIT BUT TYPICAL.

YEAH. AND THEY'VE MET IT SO.

SO THEY MAY NOT BE ABLE TO GET AWAY WITH LESS PARKING WITHOUT ANOTHER VARIANCE, WHICH AGAIN, WE'RE BACK TO A MINIMUM ACTION WHICH.

YEAH, I WOULD I WOULD FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE WAITING TO VOTE ON THIS CASE UNTIL WE HAD THE APPLICANT IN FRONT OF US.

I THINK IT'S MORE FAIR TO THEM.

I THINK THEY HAVE THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE ABLE TO ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS AND THAT WOULD SATISFY MY, YOU KNOW, NEED TO REALLY UNDERSTAND THIS FULLY BEFORE APPROVING OR NOT OR DENYING.

SO I WOULD MOTION TO TABLE THIS AND WE WILL HOPEFULLY HAVE THEM BACK IN AUGUST

[00:50:06]

ALL RIGHT. THIS IS A MOTION TO TABLE, SO THIS CASE HAS BEEN TABLED.

AND WITH THAT, SINCE WE HAVE NO ONE IN OUR AUDIENCE, I WILL OPEN AND CLOSE PUBLIC COMMENT AND I WILL OPEN BOARD MEMBER

[9. BOARD MEMBER COMMENTS]

WE'RE EXCITED TO HAVE YOU HERE.

YOU JUMPED RIGHT IN. I LOVE THAT.

I TRY TO LAY ON THE SIDELINES A LITTLE BIT FOR MY FIRST TIME, BUT I LOVE BEING INVOLVED, SO THANK YOU.

YOU DID AWESOME. SO WE'RE GLAD TO HAVE YOU.

AND ALTERNATES ARE VERY NEEDED BECAUSE WE OFTEN HAVE OTHER THINGS GOING ON.

SO WELCOME. WE'RE GLAD YOU'RE HERE.

AND THANK YOU FOR FOR BEING HERE ON SUCH AN EXCITING NIGHT.

AND ANY OTHER BOARD MEMBER COMMENTS I WOULD MIMIC.

I APOLOGIZE. I DIDN'T SAY HI TO YOU.

COME UP TO MEET YOU BEFOREHAND.

I WAS I WAS ACTUALLY READING BACK ON SOME THINGS THAT I HAD SOME OTHER QUESTIONS.

ABSOLUTELY JUST GOT SIDETRACKED.

AND BUT WELCOME AND THANKS FOR SHOWING UP AND PARTICIPATING WITH US, OF COURSE, ABOUT YOURSELF.

WELL, I JUST GRADUATED FROM MSU BACHELOR'S DEGREE IN CIVIL ENGINEERING.

I HEARD ABOUT THIS AND I WAS LIKE, WELL, THAT'S A LITTLE APPLICABLE TO MY FIELD.

SO I LIKE BEING INVOLVED IN LOCAL COMMUNITY AS WELL.

SO I WAS LIKE, SURE, WHY NOT APPLY? AND HERE I AM.

SO YEAH, I LIVE LITERALLY LIKE FIVE, TEN MINUTES AWAY, SO NOT MUCH OF A DRIVE WAS PERFECT FOR ME.

VERY HAPPY TO BE HERE.

AWESOME. WELL, WE APPRECIATE IT AND GLAD TO HAVE ANOTHER CITIZEN LENDING A HAND IN OUR PROCEEDINGS.

AND WITH THAT I WILL CLOSE BOARD MEMBER COMMENT AND THIS MEETING IS OFFICIALLY ADJOURNED.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, FOLKS.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.