Apr 19, 2023 Zoning Board of Appeals Meeting

[00:00:02]

[INAUDIBLE] YEAH, IT'S THE ONLY TWO THAT I KNOW.

SAME EXACT TIME. WOW.

WOW. WHAT ARE THE ODDS OF THAT? WELL, THE ODDS OF THAT.

OKAY. SO I AM GOING TO NOMINATE.

WELL, I HAVE TO PUT MY CONFLICT ON THE RECORD, BUT I'M GOING TO NOMINATE JIM AS THE VICE CHAIR BECAUSE MY SCHEDULE IS JUST SO. HEY, SEE? WE GOT IT ALL WORKED OUT.

I'LL VOTE FOR HIM. ALL RIGHT.

I'M GOING TO VOTE FOR HIM, TOO.

SO I THINK THAT BASICALLY OVERRULES ANY VOTE THAT HE WOULD HAVE AGAINST IT.

ALL RIGHT. SOUNDS GOOD TO ME, I KNOW MY ROLE.

YEP.

JUST SMILE AND NOD.

SMILE AND NOD. SMILE AND DO THAT EVERY DAY AT HOME IN FRONT OF MY.

SEE? THERE YOU GO. DINNER WAS GOOD.

WAIT, WAIT.

I WAS LIKE, WAIT A MINUTE.

HE'S LIKE, ARE WE RECORDING YET? WE ARE NOT. YEAH.

I COOK A LOT FOR.

OKAY, THANKS. OH, I THINK WE ARE.

NOT YET. OH, OKAY.

THAT'S ALL RIGHT. I WENT TO SLEEP, SO I'M GOING TO PULL IT UP ON MY PHONE.

ALL RIGHT. OKAY. WELL, IT IS 6:30.

LET ME PULL IT UP ON MY PHONE SO I CAN MAKE MY NOTES.

I'D LIKE TO KNOW JUST IN CASE WE NEED IT.

ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT.

[1. CALL MEETING TO ORDER]

I'M GOING TO GO AHEAD AND CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER.

IT IS 6:30.

WELCOME TO THE CHARTER TOWNSHIP OF MERIDIAN ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS MEETING.

TODAY IS WEDNESDAY, APRIL 19TH, 2023.

AND OUR LET'S SEE.

[2. APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA]

WE ARE LOOKING AT THE APPROVAL OF TONIGHT'S AGENDA.

ALL RIGHT. QUESTIONS OR MOVE BY MEMBER TREZISE.

I'M GOING TO GET IT. SECOND.

AND SECONDED BY MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER.

THIS IS A VOTE TO APPROVE TONIGHT'S AGENDA.

SO THE AGENDA IS APPROVED.

MOVING ON TO NUMBER THREE ON OUR AGENDA, WHICH IS CORRECTIONS, APPROVAL AND RATIFICATION OF MINUTES FOR MARCH 15TH, 2023.

[3. CORRECTIONS, APPROVAL AND RATIFICATION OF MINUTES]

I WAS GOING TO SAY I'M LIKE, IT'S JUST REALLY ME.

I WILL. SECOND, I'LL MOVE TO APPROVE THE MINUTES AS PRESENTED.

FANTASTIC. ALL RIGHT.

THIS IS A VOTE TO APPROVE MINUTES FROM MARCH 15TH, 2023.

NEXT WOULD BE COMMUNICATIONS OF WHICH THERE ARE NONE IN OUR PACKET AND THERE IS NO UNFINISHED BUSINESS.

SO WE WILL MOVE DIRECTLY TO NEW BUSINESS, WHICH BEFORE WE GET STARTED.

[6.A. ZBA CASE NO. 23-04 (4660 S. Hagadorn), Johnson Sign Company, 2240 Lansing Ave., Jackson, MI 49202]

YES. I NEED TO PUT A CONFLICT ON THE RECORD.

I SIT ON THE SPARROW FOUNDATION BOARD AND SO AS A RESULT, I DO NOT THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR ME TO VOTE ON THIS MATTER.

SO I WILL GO BACK INTO THE AUDIENCE.

IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE I NEED TO.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

THIS IS A VOTE TO ALLOW MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER TO ABSTAIN FROM HEARING THE CASE.

CASE NUMBER 20-304 SO YOUR CONFLICT IS SO NOTED.

THANK YOU. AND WE WILL SEE YOU IN A MINUTE.

SEE YOU IN A MINUTE. ALL RIGHT.

IN THAT CASE, WE ARE GOING TO HEAR ZBA CASE NO.

23-04 4660 SOUTH HAGADORN JOHNSON SIGN COMPANY 2240 LANSING AVENUE, JACKSON, MICHIGAN.

49202. AND WITH THAT, I WILL TURN IT OVER TO MR. CHAPMAN. GOOD EVENING.

THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING TWO VARIANCES, ONE FROM SECTION 866873A WHICH STATES ONE WALL SIGN SHALL BE PERMITTED AND MAY BE FLAT AGAINST THE BUILDING'S FRONT FACADE OR PARALLEL TO THE FRONT FACADE ON A CANOPY FOR BUSINESSES WITH FRONTAGE ON MORE THAN ONE PUBLIC STREET, TWO SIGNS MAY BE PERMITTED AND IN NO CASE SHALL MORE THAN ONE WALL SIGN BE LOCATED ON A FACADE AND NO WALL SIGN SHALL BE LOCATED ON A REAR FACADE.

[00:05:01]

IN 1995, THE TOWNSHIP ISSUED A BUILDING PERMIT FOR THE INSTALLATION OF TWO WALL SIGNS.

I'D AND THE TEXT AND THE LOGO.

THESE TOTAL 93FT² AND THEY WERE INSTALLED ON THE BUILDING'S WEST ELEVATION FACING HAGADORN ROAD.

AT THE TIME THERE WAS DIFFERENT SIGN REGULATIONS.

BASICALLY IT PERMITTED AN UNLIMITED NUMBER OF WALL SIGNS ON THE BUILDING'S FACADE, PROVIDED THAT THE TOTAL AREA OF ALL THE SIGNS DID NOT EXCEED 10% OF THE BUILDING'S FACE. SO SINCE THEN, THE CODE WAS REVISED AND NOW IT ONLY ALLOWS ONE WALL SIGN ON THE BUILDING'S FRONT ELEVATION AND TREATING THE TEXT AND LOGO AS A SINGLE SIGN.

IT MEASURES 185FT².

IN AREA 2009, A VARIANCE WAS APPROVED FOR AN ADDITIONAL WALL SIGN, WHICH ALLOWED WELLS FARGO TO ADD 65FT² OR 65 SQUARE FOOT SIGN NEAR THE TOP OF THE MAIN ENTRANCE.

THIS SIGN WAS REMOVED AND IS NO LONGER PART OF THE OVERALL NUMBER SQUARE FOOTAGE GRANTED TO THE SITE.

IN 2015, THERE WAS ANOTHER VARIANCE GRANTED TO ALLOW A 65 SQUARE FOOT WALL SIGN FOR MSU HEALTH TEAM TO BE LOCATED ON THE BUILDING'S WEST ELEVATION.

AND IN 2021, VARIANCES WERE GRANTED TO ALLOW THREE WALL SIGNS FOR A TOTAL OF 303.8FT².

SO IN TOTAL, THE BUILDING'S WEST ELEVATION HAS 155.5 LINEAL FEET OF FRONTAGE AND THE TOWNSHIP SIGN REGULATIONS WOULD PERMIT A SINGLE WALL SIGN CONTAINING A MAXIMUM OF 155.5FT² IN AREA.

HOWEVER, BECAUSE THE BUILDING CONTAINS FRONTAGE ON MORE THAN ONE PUBLIC STREET, THE BUILDING WOULD BE PERMITTED A SECOND.

WALL SIGN ON A SEPARATE BUILDING ELEVATION.

THEREFORE, THE SIGN REGULATIONS ALLOWS THE APPLICANT TO INSTALL THE WALL SIGN ON THE BUILDING'S WEST ELEVATION.

UP TO 155.5FT² AND SECOND WALL SIGN ON UP TO 155.5FT².

SO THE FIRST VARIANCE, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A FOURTH WALL SIGN ON THE BUILDING'S WEST ELEVATION THAT CURRENTLY CONTAINS THREE WALL SIGNS THAT TOTAL 303.8FT² COMBINED.

THE EXISTING WALL SIGNS AND PROPOSED WALL SIGN TOTAL 353.8FT² IN SIGN AREA.

THE SECOND VARIANCE HAS TO DO WITH THE TOTAL SIZE OF THE WALL SIGNS ON THE WEST ELEVATION A MAXIMUM OF 155.5FT² OF SIGN AREA IS ALLOWED ON THE WEST ELEVATION.

THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A TOTAL OF 353.8FT² OF WALL SIGNS ON THE WEST FACADE OF THE BUILDING WITH THE ADDITION OF THE NEW SIGN.

AND THAT'S ALL I HAVE.

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAPMAN. WOULD THE APPLICANT OR THE APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATIVE LIKE TO COME UP AND SPEAK ANY FURTHER ON THIS CASE THIS EVENING? SO JUST COME UP TO THE PODIUM AND YOU'LL STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD, PLEASE, SIR.

ALL RIGHT. MY NAME IS JIM JOHNSON WITH JOHNSON SIGN COMPANY.

OUR ADDRESS IS 2240 LANSING AVENUE IN JACKSON, MICHIGAN.

THANK YOU ALL FOR TAKING THE TIME TO HEAR OUR CASE TONIGHT.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

UM, JUST TO OPEN, WE WHEN WE WORKED ORIGINALLY WITH SPARROW ON COMING UP WITH A WAY TO IDENTIFY THEIR PRACTICE, THEIR MEDICAL OFFICE AT THIS BUILDING, WE WERE TRYING TO SEE WHERE THE BEST OPPORTUNITY TO PLACE THEIR SIGNAGE IS.

AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE PAST HISTORY OF THE VARIANCES THAT WE'VE HAD TO OR THAT THIS PROPERTY HAS HAD TO UNDERGO KIND OF SHOWS THE UNIQUENESS IN OUR EYES OF HOW THIS PROPERTY IS SET UP.

THIS EXISTING BUILDING IS A FAIRLY LARGE ONE.

IT'S SIX STORIES.

THE DISTANCE IT SETS OFF THE ROAD WITH THE NORTH BUILDING KIND OF BLOCKING, IT REALLY MAKES IT A CHALLENGE TO PROPERLY IDENTIFY THE DIFFERENT PRACTICES IN THIS BUILDING. AND SO WHAT WE TRY TO COME UP WITH IS A SOLUTION THAT WE FELT IS IN LINE WITH THE ESTHETICS OF THE OTHER SIGNS ON THE BUILDING.

SO THE SPARROW SIGN THAT WE ARE SHOWING HERE IS A 50 SQUARE FOOT SIGN MOUNTED ON THE THIRD FLOOR OF THE BUILDING ABOVE THE EXISTING PHARMACY SIGN.

WE FEEL IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO BE ABLE TO PROPERLY IDENTIFY SPARROW BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT THERE'S ANOTHER HEALTH CARE FACILITY THAT IS BRANDED ON THIS BUILDING.

[00:10:05]

SO THAT'S WHAT WE TRIED TO DO.

WE FEEL THAT THE ESTHETICS OF THE WAY IT LOOKS IS IN LINE.

AS KEITH MENTIONED EARLIER, IN THE PAST, THERE USED TO BE A LARGE WELLS FARGO SIGN UP ON THE TOP FLOOR WITH A SMALLER MSU HEALTH SIGN ON THE LEFT SIDE.

SO SINCE THAT HAS BEEN REMOVED AND THE MSU HEALTH CARE SIGN HAS GOTTEN LARGER, WE STILL FEEL THE OVERALL ESTHETIC LOOK OF THIS BUILDING IS IN LINE AS TO WHAT IT HISTORICALLY WAS IN THE PREVIOUS YEARS.

AND I COULD READ THROUGH OUR RESPONSES TO THE SEVEN CRITERIA IF THAT WOULD HELP.

WE SHOULD. DO YOU HAVE THE FIVE CRITERIA THAT WE HAVE SHIFTED TO? I KNOW THAT YOU'VE BEEN AT MEETINGS BEFORE WITH ME.

YES. I THINK I SAID ON THIS CASE ON THE LAST ONE.

YEAH. BUT YOU KNOW, WE DON'T WE CAME WITH ALL EIGHT, SO I APOLOGIZE.

YEAH, NO, THAT'S OKAY.

SO WE'VE CONDENSED YOU, CONDENSED IT, KIND OF SHORTEN THEM UP.

YEAH. SO IF YOU WANT, I COULD, GO THROUGH THOSE EIGHT PRETTY QUICK IF YOU WOULD LIKE OR IF YOU HAD THEM IN YOUR REPORT.

WE SHOULD HAVE THAT IN OUR PACKET.

I THINK I READ THROUGH THOSE.

OKAY. SO I DON'T NEED THAT UNLESS ANY.

BUT I WOULD LOVE YOU TO STICK AROUND.

MR. JOHNSON. THAT WAY WE CAN TALK.

IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU NEED OR ANYTHING ELSE WE SHOULD KNOW BEFORE WE GET INTO OUR BOARD TIME? OTHERWISE, I'D LOVE FOR YOU JUST TO STAY WHERE YOU ARE AND THEN WE CAN HAVE DIALOG AS NEEDED.

YEP. SOUNDS GOOD.

ALL RIGHT, IN THAT CASE, I'M GOING TO GET INTO.

I'M SORRY. IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS CASE THIS EVENING? AND IF SO, YOU CAN COME UP TO THE PODIUM AND MAKE A STATEMENT WITH YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD.

IF NOT, I'M GOING TO GO AHEAD AND GET INTO OUR BOARD TIME.

ALL RIGHT. IN THAT CASE, DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, THOUGHTS, CONCERNS? I'LL TELL YOU KIND OF WHERE I'M COMING FROM AFTER THIS ONE.

WHICH IS AND THIS MIGHT BE A QUESTION I DON'T KNOW.

KEITH CAN ANSWER THIS QUESTION OR MAYBE EVEN IS THERE A REPRESENTATIVE FROM ISD WITH US TONIGHT FROM THE BUILDING? OKAY. IS HOW MANY TENANTS ARE IN THIS BUILDING? BECAUSE WHAT I'M AFRAID WE'VE OPENED PANDORA'S BOX BECAUSE WE APPROVE THIS.

AND I SAT ON THAT CASE.

I UNDERSTAND WHERE WE CAME, AND I THINK MEMBER KOENIG WAS ON THAT CASE.

I REMEMBER WHY.

AND IT WAS A PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUE.

AND WE WE WERE CONCERNED WITH SIGNAGE.

AND I THINK MR. JOHNSON SAID IT WELL, THAT, YOU KNOW, MAKING SURE THAT PEOPLE CAN FIND THIS LOCATION.

UM, BUT MR. JOHNSON ALSO POINTED OUT IT'S A VERY LARGE BUILDING.

HOW MANY TENANTS ARE WE TALKING ABOUT AND DOES EVERYBODY WANT TO SIGN? SO THAT'S KIND OF WHERE THAT'S MY THOUGHT PROCESS RIGHT NOW.

KEITH DOES THIS BUILDING HAVE A MONUMENT SIGN? I DON'T BELIEVE SO.

OKAY. I THINK SOME OF THEM IN THAT AREA DO.

BUT I DON'T THINK YEAH, BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE THERE WERE SOME OTHER BUILDINGS THERE ON HAGADORN THAT WE NOT SO LONG AGO APPROVED MONUMENT SIGNAGE FOR DIRECTIONAL.

PURPOSES, MAYBE ON THAT SIDE.

BUT I'M JUST CURIOUS BECAUSE I KNOW WE ALSO WENT THROUGH NOT TOO LONG AGO, HANNA PLAZA AND APPROVING A MONUMENT SIGN FOR HANNA BECAUSE OF SO MANY AND BEING DEEP SET OFF THE ROAD AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS.

SO I'M MY STRUGGLE WITH THIS IS THAT ON ONE HAND, WE APPROVE THOSE SIGNAGE AND IT'S THE SAME RATIONALE AND REASONING THAT THEY NEED THE SIGNAGE.

BUT MY OTHER CONCERN IS THAT IS THIS THE BEST SOLUTION FOR ALL OF THE TENANTS IN THE BUILDING? BECAUSE WE CERTAINLY CAN'T START.

LINING UP ALL THE NAMES ON THE BUILDING SIDE.

SO THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS AND.

CONCERNS. I DON'T KNOW THAT MR. JOHNSON OR MR. CHAPMAN HAS AN ANSWER FOR THAT, BUT HELLO.

WELCOME. PLEASE GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD.

MICHAEL SHINGLES.

I WORK IN THE BUILDING.

I WAS AT MICHIGAN STATE FOR 22 YEARS AND RECENTLY WENT TO SPARROW.

SO TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, I MEAN, THE ISSUES, YOU HAVE GOT DIFFERENT HEALTH CARE PRACTICES THERE.

MSU HAS GOT A LARGE PRESENCE NOW AND HAVE ASSIGNED TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE KNOW THAT THEY'RE THERE.

SO A LOT OF THESE PATIENTS ARE LIKE ELDERLY PATIENTS WITH ORTHOPEDIC INJURIES.

THEY'RE COMING IN. AND SO OUR CONCERN IS, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE PLANS FOR MICHIGAN STATE, IT'S BEEN PRETTY CLEAR THEY'RE GOING TO WANT TO BUY THE BUILDING AND THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE

[00:15:05]

PROBLEM IS, WE HAVE OUR LEASE THERE FOR SIX MORE YEARS AND OUR PATIENTS HAVE TO FIND US AND ALTHOUGH WE WORK WITH IT'S MY OLD GROUP, WE WORK WITH THOSE GUYS.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S A CHANCE THAT WE WON'T HAVE ANY ABILITY FOR OUR PATIENTS TO FIND US OTHER THAN SOMEBODY THAT CAN FOLLOW A CELL PHONE.

BUT A LOT OF ELDERLY PATIENTS AREN'T FOLLOWING CELL PHONES.

THEY'RE LOOKING FOR A VISIT.

SO AS FAR AS TENANTS, I CAN'T TELL YOU EXACTLY.

THERE'S A COUPLE BANKS IN THERE AND THEN MICHIGAN STATE'S GOT PROBABLY 4 OR 5 PRACTICES THERE AND THEY'RE TRYING TO BUILD MORE.

SO IT'S GOING TO BE MAINLY MICHIGAN STATE EVENTUALLY, AND EVENTUALLY WE'RE GOING TO BE ASKED TO LEAVE.

BUT FOR A WHILE WE HAVE TO HAVE OUR PATIENTS COME SEE US THERE.

SO THAT'S ONE OF THE IMPORTANCE FOR THE HAVING THE SIGN WHICH WE MADE SURE WE PUT IN OUR LEASE.

BUT OF COURSE IT'S GOT TO FOLLOW ALL THE ORDINANCES AND WHATNOT.

SO I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S HELPFUL, BUT THAT'S OUR CONCERN, IS THAT PATIENTS CAN FIND US.

YEAH, I DEFINITELY SEE THE UNIQUENESS OF THIS CASE AND I RESPECT THAT RESPONSE AND I APPRECIATE THAT.

THE HARD PART FOR US IS TO THOUGH THIS VARIANCE WILL GO WITH THE BUILDING.

SO, IF THAT PRACTICE AFTER THE SIX YEARS LEASE IS UP, YOU KNOW, MOVES TO ANOTHER LOCATION, WHOEVER ELSE COMES IN GETS IT.

SIGNAGE, IT'S SIGNAGE NEUTRAL.

IT'S LITERALLY JUST WHAT, WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER WHAT THE SIGNAGE IS.

IT'S JUST WHAT GOES ON THE BUILDING.

SO THAT'S THE CHALLENGE FOR US.

ABSOLUTELY SENSITIVE TO THE NEED FOR IT.

I, SEE A NEED FOR IT.

I CAN ARGUE BOTH SIDES I GUESS, IS WHAT THE CHALLENGE IS FOR ME TONIGHT.

BUT I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND ESPECIALLY KNOWING THAT YOU'LL BE IN THE BUILDING FOR QUITE SOME TIME IS HELPFUL TO KNOW.

SO I APPRECIATE THAT RESPONSE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ANY OTHER THOUGHTS? YES. I'M WONDERING IF WHAT DOES THE SOUTH FACADE PARKWAY LOOK LIKE AS FAR AS PUTTING A SIGN SIGNS AT THE SIDE IT MOSTLY THE THE DIRECTION IN WOULD BE ON OFF PARKWAY RATHER THAN OFF HAGEDORN I WOULD ASSUME BECAUSE YOU'D HAVE TO COME IN OFF OF I TO PARK. THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

DO WE HAVE A SOUTH ELEVATION VIEW, MR. JOHNSON OR MR. CHAPMAN? I CAN GET ONE ON GOOGLE.

OKAY. I BELIEVE THAT WE IN THE LAST CASE APPROVED ONE ON THE SOUTH ELEVATION.

NO.

IS THAT ANOTHER BUILDING? NO, IT'S THE SAME BUILDING.

THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN ONE ON THAT SOUTH ELEVATION OF THAT BUILDING.

NO, I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

YEAH. THAT WAS ASSOCIATED WITH THE BIG MONUMENT SIGN.

OKAY. THE TRAIN DERAILED AND BLEW THE SIGN APART.

OKAY, YEAH.

GOT THAT? OKAY. SO THAT'S.

NO, IT'S FROM SEPTEMBER 2017.

YEAH. THAT'S GOT STILL GOT THE WELLS FARGO SIGN.

OH LOOK AT ALL THOSE TREES.

YEAH. IT'S EASY TO SEE, HUH? YEAH. OKAY.

YEAH. I DON'T KNOW, KEITH.

GOOGLE EARTH IS PROVING OUR POINTS HERE.

YEAH. I MEAN, IF THIS IS A PARKWAY, I MEAN, WE CAN SEE THAT THIS IS PARKWAY.

THIS IS. THAT'S HELPING THE CASE.

YEAH, I MEAN, IT IS.

UM.

YEAH.

OKAY. NOW GRANTED TO THIS IS 2017.

SO THOSE TREES HAVE FILLED IN.

YEAH. MORE WE FIND IN THE WINTER.

IT'D BE GREAT. YEAH.

WELL, IF THERE WERE SIGNS ON THE SOUTH SIDE.

THAT'S WHAT I MEAN. RIGHT.

OKAY. YEAH.

CAN I ADD TO THIS, MR. JOHNSON? GO AHEAD. YES.

SO FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, THE REASON WE ALSO FEEL REALLY PASSIONATE ABOUT BEING ABLE TO PUT IT ON THE WEST ELEVATION IS BECAUSE OF THE SITE.

YOU KNOW, WITH THE TREES GROWING UP, YOU REALLY DON'T.

EVEN THOUGH ON THE SITE PLAN, IT LOOKS LIKE THE WEST OR THE SOUTH ELEVATION WOULD BE A GOOD SPOT.

THE TREES REALLY DO BLOCK IT.

YEAH. UM, AND SO THE WEST ELEVATION IS THE MOST OPTIMAL FOR THIS.

AND I CAN'T SPEAK ON BEHALF OF EITHER COMPANY ON BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THEY HAVE TO GIVE APPROVAL EVEN FOR THEIR TENANT TO EXPLORE GETTING A SIGN.

SO WE HAVE A, YOU KNOW, A SIGNED LETTER HERE AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE COULD DISCUSS BECAUSE I CANNOT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, HOW MANY TENANTS ARE IN THERE? I DO KNOW THE PASSION BEHIND THIS BEING A HEALTH CARE.

I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER TENANTS IN THERE THAT ARE NOT HEALTH CARE RELATED BANKS AND OTHER OTHER DIFFERENT BUSINESSES IN THERE.

BUT WITH THIS BEING A HEALTH CARE THAT PATIENTS ARE GOING TO, WE FEEL THAT IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN IF IT WAS, YOU KNOW, A BANK WANTING TO GET THEIR NAME UP THERE JUST FOR NAME RECOGNITION.

[00:20:01]

OKAY. I KNOW I'M GOING TO SPARROW, BUT HERE'S THIS MASSIVE BUILDING AND ALL I SEE IS, YOU KNOW, MSU HEALTH.

SO WE JUST ARE TRYING TO HELP, YOU KNOW, MAKE THAT AN EASIER SITUATION FOR THEIR PATIENTS AND TO ANSWER OR TO ADD TO THAT, WE DO FEEL THAT HEALTH CARE IS JUST DIFFERENT THAN THE MARKETPLACE WHEN IT COMES TO NEEDING TO IDENTIFY IT FOR THE SAFETY OF THEIR PATIENTS.

SO THAT WAS A BIG FACTOR INTO IT.

YEAH, AND I THINK WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT BEFORE WITH REGARDS TO THE NEWER EMERGENCY ROOM THERE ON JOLLY AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

I THINK WE'VE BEEN MORE SENSITIVE TO THAT AS A BOARD, THAT WE UNDERSTAND THAT SIGNAGE IS A PUBLIC SAFETY MEASURE.

YES. MEMBER JUST I HAD JUST A COUPLE COMMENTS.

WELL, I WAS GOING TO ASK THE SAME QUESTION, MADAM CHAIR, ABOUT THE NUMBER OF TENANTS, BECAUSE I, TOO, HAD KIND OF GRASPED LIKE, YOU KNOW, NOT SO MUCH THE PRECEDENT SETTING, BUT IF THERE'S 30 TENANTS IN THERE, THEY'RE GOING TO BE 30 SIGNS IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS ON THIS BUILDING.

SO I DID I JUST LOOKED ON MY PHONE AS WELL.

BUT LIKE I AND HANNAH, THOSE ALL ARE KIND OF DEAD END.

SO THE MOST FOR THE MOST PART, THE ONLY WAY YOU'RE GOING TO GET THERE IS FROM HAGEDORN.

SO THAT'S GOING TO BE THE MAIN IN MY VIEW.

IN MY OPINION, THAT'S GOING TO BE YOUR MAIN VIEW AND BE ABLE TO SEE THIS BUILDING.

AND THE BUILDING NORTH OF THERE IS COMING DOWN OR UP.

HAGEDORN SO I CAN TOTALLY UNDERSTAND WHY THE SIGNS, IF ANYBODY'S GOING TO BE IN THERE, THEY WANT TO PUT THEM ON THE WEST SIDE.

BESIDES THE TREES, I DON'T KNOW.

THERE'S SO MANY TREES. I THOUGHT THERE WAS A GOOD QUESTION THAT WAS JUST AN OPTION.

IT'S NOT A GOOD ONE FOR A MINIMUM ACTION.

YEAH, I MEAN, YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

I ALSO CAME ACROSS THE WHOLE THE QUESTION OF A PRECEDENT BECAUSE THERE'S ALREADY BEEN VARIANCES ON THIS PROPERTY FOR SIGNS. SO THAT PRECEDENT IS ALREADY KIND OF BEEN SET BY THE TOWNSHIP, WHETHER THERE'S A SIGN THAT'S NO LONGER THERE OR NOT, AS YOU SAW IN THE 2017 PICTURE, IT WAS THERE, THE WELLS FARGO, BUT IT'S NO LONGER THERE.

BUT THERE WAS ALREADY VARIANCES THAT WERE APPROVED ON THIS BUILDING FOR WHATEVER REASON.

SO IT'S NOT LIKE THIS WOULD BE SOMETHING NEW.

THE BIG THING FOR ME IS THAT THE LOCATION OF THE BUILDING AND WHERE THIS IS AT, THERE'S NO RESIDENTIAL RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM IT OR ANYWHERE NEAR IT.

SO IT'S NOT GOING TO BE LIKE REALLY A BIG EYESORE WITH BRIGHTNESS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

THAT'S REALLY GOING TO CATCH SOME RESIDENTS ATTENTION.

THAT'S A BIG TOPIC WITH WHENEVER IS A BUILDING ACROSS FROM RESIDENTS.

YOU GOT TO TAKE THAT IN CONSIDERATION SOMETIMES.

AND THIS IS ALL KIND OF LIKE A LITTLE MINI COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT, INTENSIVE AREA.

AND I DO AGREE WITH MADAM CHAIR ABOUT YOU NEED A BIG ENOUGH SIGN ON THERE SO PEOPLE COULD SEE IT BECAUSE OF HOW FAR BACK THE BUILDING IS.

AND YOU KNOW, THE SIGN SIZE, I THINK, IS WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURE OF IT, IF THAT'S THE SCALE, IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO BE ONE OF THE SMALLER SIGNS THAT'S UP THERE BESIDES THE ADDRESS. SO I THINK YOU KIND OF DID SOME DUE DILIGENCE THERE.

BESIDES, I MEAN, IT'S NO BIGGER THAN THE I OR THE MSU HEALTH CARE OR EVEN THAT LITTLE PHARMACY THAT'S JUST BELOW THERE THAT WAS APPROVED BACK IN 2015 OR SOMETHING.

SO IT IS KIND OF THE SMALLER OF THE SIGN.

SO I BOTTOM LINE, GETTING TO MY MAIN POINT, I AS MUCH AS I KIND OF SCRATCHED MY HEAD AND WONDERED ABOUT THE PRECEDENCE WITH THIS, I MYSELF DON'T SEE AN ISSUE WITH IT JUST BECAUSE OF THE TYPE OF USE WHERE IT IS.

AND BEING THAT THIS IS KIND OF A DEAD END ROADS AND THE ONLY WAY TO REALLY ACCESS IS OFF.

HAGEDORN SO THAT'S PROBABLY GOING TO BE YOUR BEST PLACE NOW COULD WE HAVE A PROBLEM OR THE TOWNSHIP HAVE AN ISSUE? IF THERE'S THREE MORE MSU DECIDES TO GET OUT OF THERE AND YOU GOT TEN MORE COMPANIES COMING IN, THEY ALL WANT TO SIGN POTENTIALLY, YEAH.

BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW BIG THE FACE OF THIS BUILDING.

KEITH WHEN YOU SAID IN HERE, YOUR FIRST PARAGRAPH RIGHT THERE, YOU SAID BACK IN THE DAY BEFORE THIS NEW CODE PERMITTED UNLIMITED NUMBER OF SIGNS OF BUILDINGS FROM US PROVIDE THE TOTAL AREA OF THE WELL SIZE DOES NOT EXCEED 10% OF THE BUILDING'S FACE.

DID YOU MEAN THE FRONTAGE OF THE FACE OR DID YOU MEAN THE AREA OF THE FACE? I BELIEVE IT'S THE WHOLE AREA.

SO THIS IS A SIX STORY BY 155 FOOT FRONTAGE.

SO YOU'RE TALKING I'M GUESSING THIS IS GOING TO BE MORE THAN WHAT'S THE TOTAL SIGN SIZE 300.

WHAT WAS IT, THREE, 5050.

I'M GOING TO GUESS THAT FRONTAGE IS BIGGER THAN 3530FT² TO BE THE 10%.

SO BACK FOR THE NEW CODE.

THERE PROBABLY COULD HAVE BEEN MORE SIGNS ON THERE.

SO THAT WAS THE OTHER THING THAT I CONSIDERED.

BUT I DO RESPECT YOUR GUYS TWO POINTS, ESPECIALLY COMING OFF OF I LOOKED DOWN THERE, BUT I ONLY LOOKED AT IT AS THE SENSE OF KIND OF BEING LIKE A DEAD END.

I DIDN'T FIGURE, YOU KNOW, WHAT WAS THE VIEW LIKE.

SO I'M GLAD THAT. THANKS, KEITH, FOR SHOWING THAT.

THAT'S JUST THE COMMENTS I HAD.

MADAM CHAIR, I'M OFF IN THIS ROOM.

ALONG THOSE LINES, I TEND TO AGREE THAT IT IS NOT AN INTRUSIVE SIGN.

IT IS AND THAT FACADE, IT IS NOT OVERWHELMING.

[00:25:06]

AND AS LONG AS THE SIZES ARE KEPT SMALL, I DON'T SEE A PROBLEM WITH HAVING THREE SIGNS THERE WITH 350FT AS OPPOSED TO OR FOUR SIGNS THERE, 350FT², AS OPPOSED TO THREE SIGNS AT 300.

IT'S NOT A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE.

YEAH, I TEND TO I TEND TO AGREE WITH YOU BOTH.

AND I THINK DEFINITELY AFTER HAVING LOOKED AT THAT I BOULEVARD WHERE THERE'S NOT REALLY ANY OTHER OPTION.

SO I CAN SEE THIS AS BEING A MINIMAL ACTION CONSIDERING THE ALTERNATIVE IS THAT THERE'S NO OTHER OPTION.

AND I DO JUST WANT US TO KIND OF KEEP IT IN MIND MOVING FORWARD AS A BOARD, JUST TO HAVE IT AS PART OF OUR AWARENESS.

LIKE YOU SAID, WE DON'T WANT IT TO TURN INTO A BILLBOARD EITHER.

SO I KNOW WE HAVE WONDERFUL STAFF THAT WILL WORK WITH SOME OF THESE TENANTS IF WE DO HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE COMING UP WANTING TO PUT SIGNS ON THIS BUILDING.

SO I'M OF THE OPINION TO START TAKING A LOOK AT CRITERIA AND I DON'T SEE ANY MAJOR. OTHER REASONS.

I THINK WHAT HAS BEEN SAID IS NOTED ON THE RECORD AND FROM THERE WE CAN KIND OF MOVE FORWARD THOUGHTFULLY AS A BOARD WITH ANY IF THERE DOES EVER COME UP MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY.

SO WITH THAT, I'M GOING TO GO AHEAD AND START READING CRITERIA.

CRITERIA NUMBER ONE BEING UNIQUE.

CIRCUMSTANCES EXIST THAT ARE PECULIAR TO THE LAND OR STRUCTURE THAT ARE NOT APPLICABLE TO OTHER LAND OR STRUCTURES IN THE SAME ZONING DISTRICT.

AND THESE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE NOT SELF-CREATED.

I THINK MR. JOHNSON MADE A VERY GOOD SIDE OF EXPLAINING THAT, AS WELL AS OUR VISUAL OR VISUAL AIDS FROM MR. CHAPMAN. SO I APPRECIATE THAT, THAT THESE ARE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THIS PARTICULAR BUILDING AND VARIANT VARIANCE APPLICANT AND CRITERIA NUMBER TWO, BEING STRICT INTERPRETATION AND ENFORCEMENT OF THE LITERAL TERMS AND PROVISIONS OF THIS CHAPTER WOULD RESULT IN PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES THAT WOULD PREVENT THE OWNER FROM USING THE PROPERTY FOR A PERMITTED PURPOSE.

I DO THINK THAT IT'S CHALLENGING TO HAVE ONE PARTICULAR.

BUSINESS INSIDE OF A VERY LARGE BUILDING THAT COULD BE CONFUSED OR MISINTERPRETED AND LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO SEE FROM THE ROAD.

SO I WOULD SAY THAT WOULD BE A PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY WITH THE SITE.

THERE. NUMBER THREE SO I COULD MEET THAT CRITERIA NUMBER THREE, GRANTING THE VARIANCE OF THE MINIMUM ACTION NECESSARY, WHICH WOULD CARRY OUT THE SPIRIT OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE, SECURE PUBLIC SAFETY, AND PROVIDE SUBSTANTIAL JUSTICE.

AGAIN, I THINK AS WE SAW, AN ALTERNATIVE ACTION IS NOT EVEN A FEASIBLE.

RIGHT. VERY, VERY GOOD WORD FOR THAT.

THERE'S NO OTHER WAY REALLY TO PUT A SIGN ON THIS BUILDING THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE OR THAT WOULD SOLVE THE ISSUE.

SO I THINK THIS AND AS HAS BEEN SAID, THIS BEING A VERY REASONABLE SIZE OF A SIGN WITHIN A VERY LARGE FACADE OF A BUILDING DOES DEFINITELY BRING AS MINIMUM ACTION TO ME SO I CAN MEET THAT CRITERIA.

CRITERIA NUMBER FOUR, GRANTING THE VARIANCE WILL NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT ADJACENT LAND OR THE ESSENTIAL CHARACTER OF THE VICINITY OF THE PROPERTY.

AGAIN, AS MEMBER KOENIG STATED, THIS ISN'T A RESIDENTIAL AREA.

THIS IS A VERY COMMERCIAL AREA.

THEREFORE, I THINK IT WILL ONLY ENHANCE AND HELP TO AID TRAFFIC AND OTHER CONGESTED AREAS THERE SO I CAN MEET THAT CRITERIA AND.

CRITERIA NUMBER FIVE, WHICH IS GRANTING THE VARIANCE, WILL BE GENERALLY CONSISTENT WITH PUBLIC INTEREST AND THE PURPOSES AND INTENT OF THIS CHAPTER.

I DO THINK THAT PART OF THE INTENT OF THIS SIGN ORDINANCE IS TO KEEP IT AS MINIMAL AS POSSIBLE AND NOT TURN IT INTO THIS LARGE OF A BUILDING INTO A BILLBOARD.

SO I DO THINK THAT CONSIDERING WE ONLY HAVE THREE, FOUR, THREE SIGNS ON IT CURRENTLY FOR WITH THE ADDITION OF THIS ONE IS WITHIN THE INTENT OF THIS ZONING ORDINANCE.

SO I CAN MEET THAT CRITERIA AS WELL.

I WELCOME ANY DISCUSSION ON ANY OF THE VARIANTS, IF WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ON THE CRITERIA.

NO, I AGREE. ALL RIGHT.

WELL, THEN I WOULD MOVE TO APPROVE THIS VARIANCE FOR BOTH.

[00:30:01]

CASE NUMBER 23-044660.

SOUTH HAGADORN FOR JOHNSON SIGN COMPANY FOR BOTH THE.

I'M GOING TO SCROLL BACK DOWN FOR BOTH THE CHANGE IN NUMBER OF SIGNS AND THE ADDITIONAL SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE SIGNAGE SUPPORT.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

SO THIS IS A MOTION TO APPROVE ZBA CASE NUMBER 20 304 . SO YOUR VARIANCE HAS BEEN APPROVED.

AWESOME. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH.

REALLY APPRECIATE IT. YES. THANK YOU FOR BEING SO PREPARED WHEN YOU COME BEFORE OUR BOARD.

WE APPRECIATE THAT VERY MUCH.

ALL RIGHT. SINCE THAT IS OUR ONLY NEW BUSINESS, WE DO NEED TO MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM IN OUR AGENDA AND BRING BACK MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER FROM THE AUDIENCE.

[7.A. Election of 2023 Officers]

AND WITH THAT I BELIEVE WE NEED TO HAVE.

SHOULD I READ THIS? DO I HAVE TO READ? YOU DON'T HAVE TO READ IT. I MEAN, WE BASICALLY JUST NEED NOMINATIONS AND I NEED A NOMINATION FOR A VICE PRESIDENT.

PLEASE DO WE HAVE TO DO THE CHAIR FIRST? I NEED A NOMINATION FOR THE CHAIR FIRST.

I NOMINATE OUR CHAIR MANSOUR TO CONTINUE IN THAT ROLE.

I WOULD SECOND. ALL RIGHT.

THIS IS A VOTE FOR CHAIR OF THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS.

THAT WOULD BE FOR ALEXIA MANSOUR TO CONTINUE AS CHAIR OF THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS.

CHAIR OKAY.

ALL RIGHT. AND SO WE ARE LOOKING FOR A NOMINATION FOR A VICE CHAIR.

TO SERVE IN SUCH DUTIES, I NOMINATE MEMBER KOENIG TO BE THE VICE CHAIR, SUPPORT.

ALL RIGHT, SO THIS IS A AND ARE YOU.

ARE YOU. COME ON WITH ME.

ALL RIGHT. OKAY.

THIS IS A VOTE TO APPROVE VICE CHAIR KOENIG NOMINATION.

SO WELCOME, VICE CHAIR.

THANK YOU. CONGRATULATIONS.

YES. CONGRATS.

I KNOW YOU WILL. YES.

I DO MY BEST.

I KNOW YOU WILL. ALL RIGHT.

WELL, NOW THAT WE HAVE OUR OFFICERS IN APRIL, IT'S ONLY APRIL.

THANK YOU. NOW THAT WE'RE ALL. NOW THAT WE'RE FREE.

WHAT IS THIS? IS THIS OUR WAY HERE FOR RECORDING OR RECORDING OUR FOUR MINUTES? SORRY, I DIDN'T MEAN TO DISTRACT YOU.

PUSH THE BUTTON. WELL, I AM LOOKING, AND THERE IS NO ONE LEFT TO MAKE PUBLIC REMARKS.

SO I WILL OPEN PUBLIC REMARKS.

AND I WILL PROMPTLY CLOSE PUBLIC REMARKS.

AND I WILL OPEN BOARD MEMBER COMMENTS AND SAY THANK YOU FOR SERVING AS VICE CHAIR FOR SO MANY YEARS WITH ME.

[9. BOARD MEMBER COMMENTS]

BUT WE STILL HOPE YOU WILL.

YOU WILL SIT WITH US WHEN YOU CAN.

ABSOLUTELY. SO WE AND WELCOME WELCOME BACK TO THE OFFICER SIDE OF THE BOARD.

I'VE ACTUALLY BEEN ON THE BOARD NOW FOR MORE THAN A YEAR.

RIGHT. WOW. AND YOU'VE BEEN YOU WERE VICE CHAIR AND YOU ACTED AS THE CHAIR, I THINK, 2 OR 3 TIMES.

I THINK SO. AND I THINK YOU DID A FANTASTIC JOB.

SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I AGREE.

SO WE WILL MISS YOU AT THE GAVEL, BUT WE WILL.

I'LL STILL BE SITTING HERE.

YES, YOU WILL. YES, YOU WILL.

I LOVE IT. ALL RIGHT.

WELL, ON THAT NOTE, UNLESS ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO SAY, I'M GOING TO CLOSE BOARD MEMBER COMMENTS AND THIS MEETING IS OFFICIALLY ADJOURNED.

[INAUDIBLE] FOR MY DAUGHTERS.

THERE YOU GO. AWESOME.

[INAUDIBLE].

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.