Mar 16, 2022 Zoning Board of Appeals Meeting

ALL RIGHT, I GUESS I WILL START THE MEETING AND HOPING THAT THEIR REPRESENTATIVE COMES IN,

[1. CALL MEETING TO ORDER]

[00:00:06]

OKAY, PERFECT. OKAY.

BUT THE OTHER THING I GUESS IS I'M WAITING FOR HOMTV.

NO, THEY SAID WE'RE LIVE.

[LAUGHTER] ALL RIGHT.

WELL, WELCOME TO THE CHARTER TOWNSHIP OF MERIDIAN ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS MEETING.

TODAY IS WEDNESDAY, MARCH 16TH, 2022, AND I'M GOING TO CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER.

IT IS 6:31.

FIRST UP, I'M LOOKING AT APPROVAL OF TONIGHT'S AGENDA.

[2. APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA]

SUPPORT.

OK. MOVED BY MEMBER DESCHAINE, SUPPORTED BY MEMBER HENDRICKSON.

WE WILL GO TO A VOTE.

NOW, JIM, IS IT KOENIG? YES. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I PRONOUNCE IT CORRECTLY.

YOU GOT IT. ALL RIGHT.

MEMBER KOENIG. YES.

MEMBER DESCHAINE. YES.

AND MEMBER HENDRICKSON.

YES. AND THE CHAIR VOTES YES.

SO THE AGENDA IS APPROVED.

NEXT ON OUR AGENDA FOR THE EVENING IS CORRECTION, APPROVAL AND RATIFICATION OF MINUTES

[3. CORRECTIONS, APPROVAL AND RATIFICATION OF MINUTES]

I DO HAVE ONE NOTE THAT I FOUND BEFORE WE HAVE A MOTION THAT WAS REGARDING THE LAST CASE.

I BELIEVE IT WAS CASE D.

IT'S IN THE CRITERIA, CRITERIA FOUR WAS APPROVED TWICE.

THAT'S WHAT MY EAGLE EYES SAW, BUT BEYOND THAT, I WOULD MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES WITH THAT NOTE.

SUPPORT. SUPPORT OF THE MEMBER DESCHAINE.

AND THIS IS A VOTE TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FOR FEBRUARY 16, 2022.

MEMBER KOENIG. YES.

MEMBER DESCHAINE. YES.

MEMBER HENDRICKSON. YES.

AND THE CHAIR VOTES YES.

SO THE MINUTES ARE APPROVED.

NEXT WOULD BE COMMUNICATIONS OF WHICH I DO NOT SEE ANY LISTED IN OUR PACKET.

ITEM NUMBER 5, UNFINISHED BUSINESS OF WHICH THERE IS NONE.

SO WE MOVE DIRECTLY INTO NEW BUSINESS.

[6A. ZBA CASE NO. 22-03-16-1 (2446 Jolly Road), E.W. Sparrow Hospital Association, 1215 East Michigan Avenue, Lansing, MI 48909]

SPARROW HOSPITAL ASSOCIATION, 1215 EAST MICHIGAN AVENUE, LANSING, MICHIGAN, 48909.

AND MR. CHAPMAN, TAKE IT AWAY.

GOOD EVENING. BE AWARE THAT THAT TV IS NOT ON.

OH? OH YES, [COUGH] VERY MUCH, MEMBER HENDRICKSON.

WE WOULD VERY MUCH LIKE TO SEE PICTURES THIS EVENING.

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.

IT'S ON THE FRONT--. IT'S ON THIS SIDE.

I'M SORRY. THERE'S A REMOTE ON THIS-- RIGHT IN THE FRONT LEDGE THERE.

THERE YOU GO.

OKAY. SO THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING VARIANCES FROM SECTION 86-686(2)(A), WALL SIGNS.

ONE WALL SIGNAGE SHALL BE PERMITTED, PLACED FLAT AGAINST THE BUILDING AND 86-686(2)(B), WALL SIGNS.

WALL SIGN SHALL NOT EXCEED 20 SQUARE FEET IN SURFACE DISPLAY AREA.

SO THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING VARIANCES TO INSTALL EIGHT WALL SIGNS AT 2446 JOLLY ROAD.

THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS 5.4 ACRES IN SIZE AND IS ZONED PO, PROFESSIONAL OFFICE.

IT'S LOCATED AT THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF JOLLY ROAD AND KANSAS STREET.

THIS SITE PLAN WAS APPROVED IN 2001 TO CONSTRUCT A 30,456 SQUARE FOOT MEDICAL OFFICE BUILDING WITH A STANDALONE EMERGENCY ROOM.

THIS BUILDING IS CURRENTLY UNDER CONSTRUCTION, SO THE APPLICANT IS INTENDING TO INSTALL EIGHT WALL SIGNS AND THE SOUTH ELEVATION IS PROPOSED TO HAVE A 14 SQUARE FOOT EMERGENCY SIGN.

A 40 SQUARE FOOT SPARROW SIGN AND A 62 SQUARE FOOT EMERGENCY SIGN.

THERE'S NO SIGNAGE PROPOSED FOR THE NORTH ELEVATION.

THE EAST ELEVATION IS PROPOSED TO HAVE A 14 SQUARE FOOT EMERGENCY SIGN, A 22 SQUARE FOOT SPARROW SIGN, AND A 12 SQUARE FOOT AMBULANCE SIGN.

THE WEST ELEVATION IS PROPOSED TO HAVE TWO SIGNS ONE EMERGENCY SIGN THAT'S 70 SQUARE FEET AND ONE EMERGENCY SIGN THAT'S 14 SQUARE FEET.

[00:05:05]

AND THAT'S ALL I HAVE.

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, MR. CHAPMAN. WOULD THE APPLICANT OR THE APPLICANT REPRESENTATION LIKE TO COME UP TO THE PODIUM AND SPEAK ON THE CASE? AND IF YOU COULD JUST LIST YOUR-- SAY YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD.

ALL RIGHT. HI, I'M STACI BAKKEGARD.

I'M NOT A RESIDENT HERE, I LIVE IN DEWITT, BUT A REPRESENTATIVE FOR SPARROW HEALTH SYSTEM. A COUPLE OF FAMILIAR FACES HERE.

SO I THINK THERE'S A, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A NUANCE IN A TYPICAL USE IN THIS ZONING.

WE HAVE THE COMPLEXITY OF THIS HAVING AN EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT WITHIN THE BUILDING AND TRYING TO MEET THE INTENT OF WHAT WE FOLLOW OR HAVE TO FOLLOW A FACILITY, FGI GUIDELINE, FACILITY GUIDELINE INSTITUTE FOR HEALTH CARE FACILITIES AND CALLING OUT THAT THE EMERGENCY SIGNAGE, SO THE TYPICAL RED SIGNAGE, NEEDS TO BE AND I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER THE EXACT CODE LANGUAGE IN THERE, BUT ESSENTIALLY SOMEONE ON A PUBLIC ROAD, EASILY IDENTIFIABLE WITHIN YOUR PERIPHERY OF SIGHT, BIG ENOUGH, NOT OVERSIZED, BUT BIG ENOUGH TO READ IT, BIG ENOUGH TO IDENTIFY IT.

SO THAT'S REALLY THE GOAL.

THE EAST--.

SORRY, THE WEST SIDE BEING TO CATCH THAT EAST BOUND TRAFFIC, VICE VERSA, EAST SIDE CATCH WESTBOUND TRAFFIC.

OBVIOUSLY, A COUPLE OF THINGS ON THE CANOPIES JUST FROM A DIRECTIONAL STANDPOINT, ONCE YOU'RE REALLY ON THAT SITE AND MAKING VEHICULAR MANEUVERS.

SO JUST TO HELP WITH CLARITY FOR THOSE DECISIONS.

OKAY. IF YOU WANT TO STAY CLOSE, [LAUGHTER] JUST IN CASE WE HAVE QUESTIONS, THAT WAY YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO AND COME BACK, BUT WE APPRECIATE THAT.

IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THE CASE THIS EVENING? AND IF NOT, WE WILL MOVE INTO BOARD TIME.

ALL RIGHT. HERE WE GO.

BACK AT IT BOARD.

ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR ANYTHING THAT YOU WANT TO GET STARTED WITH? [INAUDIBLE] A GENERAL QUESTION.

I UNDERSTAND THE INTENT OF THIS, AND I REALIZE THIS IS KIND OF A CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF WHERE A SIGNED ORDINANCE MAY NOT BE [INAUDIBLE] WE MAY NEED TO PROVIDE YOU THE VARIANCE HERE, BUT LOOK AT YOUR SIGN.

IT SEEMS TO BE MORE ABOUT SPARROW [INAUDIBLE] IT DOES TO BE ABOUT ANNOUNCING THAT IT'S AN EMERGENCY ROOM. AND I'D FEEL BETTER IF THE EMERGENCY ROOM WAS AT LEAST BIGGER THAN THE SPARROW NAME IF YOU THOUGHT ABOUT POSSIBLY REVERSING THAT.

SO THAT EMERGENCY STANDS OUT, SPARROW IS SECONDARY? IS SMALLER.

YEAH, WE CAN DEFINITELY TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION.

ARE YOU REFERRING TO ANY ONE LIKE WEST ELEVATION MONUMENT SIGN ANY ONE-- SPEAKERS]? I THINK IT'S THE MONUMENT SIGN THAT'S IN THE PACKET.

YEAH. THE MONUMENT-- MONUMENT SIGN? YEAH.

I THINK I HAVE THE SAME QUESTION ABOUT THE MONUMENT SIGN ONLY BECAUSE AS A DIRECTIONAL SIGN AND SEEING IT AS YOU COME INTO THAT CAMPUS, I WOULD AGREE THE RED IS EYE CATCHING, BUT THE SIZE AND THE VARIATION OF THE TWO IS--.

I WOULD RATHER SEE A LARGER EMERGENCY AND A SMALLER SPARROW JUST FOR THAT PURPOSE OF GETTING THAT EMERGENCY TRAFFIC IN SAFELY.

IS IT THE COPY ON IT OR IS IT THE OVERALL FRAME SIZE? DOES THAT MAKE SENSE, ASKING--? YES, I WOULD SAY IT WOULD BE MORE THE THE RATIO BETWEEN THE FRAME SIZE BETWEEN THE SPARROW SIDE AND THE EMERGENCY SIDE.

MEMBER HENDRICKSON? YEAH, JUST TO CLARIFY, PERHAPS STAFF CAN ASSIST WITH THIS, GIVEN THE RECENT SUPREME COURT DECISION FROM A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, ARE WE ALLOWED TO CONSIDER THE CONTENT OF THE SIGNS? SO, NO, WE CAN'T LOOK AT THE CONTENT OF THE SIGN, BUT I JUST WANT TO ALSO CLARIFY THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE WALL SIGNS AND NOT THE--.

NOT THE MONUMENT SIGN. MONUMENT SIGN.

YEAH. OKAY. THANK YOU FOR THE CLARIFICATION.

MEMBER HENDRICKSON? SO I HAVE A COUPLE OF CONCERNS WITH REGARD TO THE WALL SIGNS AS THEY'VE BEEN PRESENTED HERE.

I UNDERSTAND THE GUIDELINES THAT ARE PART OF THE FGI CODE THAT YOU PRESENTED IN YOUR LETTER IN THE PACKET, AND I THINK THAT CERTAINLY THE LARGER EMERGENCY SIGNS I'M LOOKING AT 62 SQUARE FOOT ON THE, I GUESS, IT'S THE SOUTH ELEVATION IN ADDITION TO THE 70 SQUARE FOOT ON THE WEST ELEVATION CERTAINLY WOULD COVER DIRECTIONAL TRAFFIC FROM EITHER

[00:10:03]

SO I CAN CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WOULD NEED TO INDICATE THAT IT'S AN EMERGENCY PER YOUR GUIDELINES THAT YOU HAVE TO DO, AND I CAN EVEN MAKE A CASE FOR ONE SIGN, THE 40 SQUARE FOOT SIGN ON THE SOUTH SIDE SO THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHERE THEY'RE GOING.

YEAH.

BUT THE EMERGENCY SIGNS ON THE BALCONIES, THE BRANDING SIGNS ON THE EAST SIDE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO EVENTUALLY MAKE A CASE FOR WHAT THE VARIANCE BEING REQUESTED IS A MINIMAL ACTION TO PROVIDE SUBSTANTIAL JUSTICE.

I GUESS CAN YOU GIVE US ANY REASON WHY YOU MUST HAVE THOSE THINGS AS A MINIMAL ACTION? SO THE CANOPY REALLY IS A PATIENT DIRECTIONAL WAYFINDING INTENT, THE CANOPY ON THE SOUTH.

SO WE'RE DRIVING, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE DRIVING IN FROM JOLLY ROAD.

YOU START TO SEE THAT UP IN YOUR PERIPHERAL VISION.

YOU KNOW, AS A PATIENT, THAT'S WHERE I'M SUPPOSED TO DRIVE TO DROP OFF THE CANOPY ON THE NORTH, I THINK JUST SAYS AMBULANCE, RIGHT? AND THAT'S JUST DIRECTIONAL.

PROBABLY DOESN'T NEED TO BE BUT AN EMS DRIVER THAT MAYBE THIS IS A NEW ARRIVAL OR SOMETHING. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE GETTING THERE.

SO THAT'S THE ONE HE'S ZOOMED IN ON THERE.

SO KIND OF DIRECTIONAL ARRIVAL, NOT A PATIENT STANDPOINT BUT EMS STANDPOINT MORE FOR THEIR--.

THE ENTRY ON OUR EAST RIGHT AS YOU MOVE YOUR CURSOR RIGHT THERE.

THAT'S REALLY THE ARRIVAL POINT FOR OUR PRIMARY CARE IMAGING PATIENTS AS THEY COME IN.

LITTLE BIT OF A DIFFERENT PURPOSE, ADMITTEDLY, PROBABLY MORE BRANDING, BUT HERE'S YOUR SPARROW PHYSICIAN OFFICE ARRIVAL.

THIS IS THE RIGHT DOOR TO COME INTO.

ALL RIGHT. YEAH. WOULD YOU MIND EITHER COMING REITERATE IT. SORRY.

JUST STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD AND JUST SAY WHAT YOU SAID JUST SO THAT WE HAVE IT ON RECORD. GOOD EVENING.

KARRIE BLUNDELL, I'M A SENIOR PROJECT MANAGER AT SPARROW.

THANK YOU SO MUCH. GO AHEAD.

THANK YOU. I JUST WANT TO SHARE, BECAUSE THAT WAS ONE ELEMENT WE TALKED ABOUT.

AND SO THE RISK IN NOT HAVING THE EAST ELEVATION SIGN WHERE WE HAVE THAT LITTLE EYEBROW CANOPY PEEKING OUT AND IT'S THE ARRIVAL FOR THE PRIMARY CARE AND OUTPATIENT IMAGING, AS STACI SAID IS, OTHERWISE IF THERE'S NOTHING TO DEMARK THAT, IT LOOKS LIKE A STAFF MAN DOOR ON THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING.

PEOPLE MAY NOT KNOW AND EVERYONE WOULD THEN PRESENT AT THE ED, WHICH CAN ALSO COMPLICATE THINGS BECAUSE ONCE THEY ARRIVE AT THE ED PER [INAUDIBLE] REQUIREMENTS, YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE-- DIRECT PEOPLE BACK OUT.

SO THAT'S ONE ELEMENT JUST TO HELP WITH CLARITY THERE.

OKAY. THANK YOU. MEMBER HENDRICKSON? SO MAYBE THE STAFF CAN CLARIFY IS THERE--? I UNDERSTAND THE INTENT OF TRYING TO MAKE THE DOOR LOOK MORE INVITING TO PATIENTS AND LET THEM KNOW THIS IS A PATIENT ENTRANCE.

I DON'T, AGAIN, TRYING DESPERATELY NOT TO READ THE SIGN, BUT BEING HUMAN AND KNOWING WHAT IT SAYS, I DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW THAT I WOULD SEE THAT AND KNOW THIS IS WHERE A PATIENT MIGHT ENTER, RIGHT? IS THERE ANOTHER WAY TO GET AROUND IT IN OUR ORDINANCE WHERE THEY COULD PUT A FREESTANDING SIGN ON THEIR PROPERTY TO MARK THAT? OR IS A WALL SIGN THE ONLY WAY THAT THEY COULD DO THAT WITH A VARIANCE? SO THEY'RE ALLOWED ONE FREE STANDING SIGN AND ONE WALL SIGN.

SO--.

SO THE MONUMENT SIGN AND I DON'T KNOW THAT PUTTING IT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SITE IS GOING TO SOLVE--.

SURE. NO, I'M NOT SUGGESTING.

I'M SAYING IF THERE WAS A WAY TO HAVE AN ADDITIONAL FREESTANDING SIGN AS A WAYFINDING DEVICE SOMEWHERE ELSE, MAYBE THAT WOULD BE A SOLUTION, BUT--.

SO I JUST--.

KEITH'S CORRECT. OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE REALLY DOESN'T PROVIDE FOR ADDITIONAL GROUND SIGNS

[00:15:05]

IT'S NOT GOING TO SERVE THE PURPOSE THEY NEED FOR IT.

I THINK THE THE SORT OF THE UNIQUENESS OF THIS BUILDING IS IT'S FUNCTIONING AS A MULTITENANT BUILDING, BUT IT'S NOT A MULTI TENANT BUILDING BECAUSE YOU FUNCTIONALLY HAVE TWO SEPARATE AND DISTINCT USES WITHIN THE BUILDING, BUT THERE IS NO DIFFERENTIATION BECAUSE IT'S THE SAME OWNER, IT'S THE SAME OPERATOR, AND THEY BLEND ENOUGH THAT YOU REALLY CAN'T CALL THE MULTI TENANT BUILDING BECAUSE IT'S A MULTI TENANT BUILDING, WE COULD PROBABLY GET AROUND AT LEAST ONE OR TWO OF THE VARIANCES BECAUSE THEN THE SECOND TENANT WOULD HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF ALLOWANCE AS WELL.

BUT THAT'S KIND OF THE ODDBALL AND WE'VE STRUGGLED TALKING ABOUT THIS EVEN TO THE CONTENT POINT THAT WE'RE HUMAN, WE LOOK AT THE SIGN.

AND SO THAT'S WHY I JUST WANT TO REITERATE, IT'S GOOD THAT WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE CONTENT. THE FOCUS IS REALLY THAT THIS IS NOT JUST ONE USE WITHIN THE BUILDING.

AND WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS YOU'RE TAKING WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A VERY ACTIVE, IMPORTANT USE THAT'S GETTING A LOT OF TRAFFIC AND HAS A LOT OF RULES, AND YOU'VE COMBINED IT WITH YOUR EVERYDAY AVERAGE MEDICAL OFFICE BUILDING, AND YOU GOT TO KEEP THEM SEPARATE.

LIKE AS KARRIE MENTIONED, IF I WALK IN THE WRONG DOOR, ALL OF A SUDDEN I'M STUCK THERE FOR A WHILE AND THERE'S A PROBLEM.

AND SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S DRIVING SOME OF THIS DISCUSSION, BUT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, BECAUSE I JUST WENT [INAUDIBLE] ON A TANGENT, IS THERE'S NOT REALLY A GOOD WAY TO GET THEM DIFFERENT TYPES OF GROUND SIGN ON THIS PROPERTY.

BEFORE YOU GO BACK, DIRECTORS SCHMITT, COME BACK.

[LAUGHTER] WINDOW SIGNS, WINDOW SIGNAGE ON THIS PARTICULAR ENTRANCE, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT IS IN THIS CODE THAT WOULD BE--? I REMEMBER ANOTHER SIGN CASE THAT WINDOW SIGNS WERE INCLUDED WITHIN THAT ONE SIGN PER BUILDING? CURRENTLY NOT PERMITTED FOR THIS ZONING DISTRICT.

LIKELY TO COME STAFF IS GOING TO RECOMMEND IT.

SO, QUESTION. SO FOR FURTHER CLARITY BECAUSE I CAN SEE-- I GET THE INTENT OF THIS PARTICULAR SIGN NOW, I GET THE INTENT ALSO OF THE CANOPY IN THE BACK FOR AMBULANCES.

I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR SOMEBODY THAT, I MEAN, DIRECTIONALLY, I GET THAT.

I DO GET THE FGI GUIDELINES AS WELL.

I'M CURIOUS AS TO WHY THAT PARTICULAR SIGN VERSUS SOMETHING THAT DENOTES A WINDOW SIGN OR SOMETHING THAT'S MORE CLEAR AS TO WHAT THIS ENTRANCE IS DEDICATED FOR.

SO IS THERE ANY--? HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DISTINGUISH THESE BEFORE SOMEBODY WALKS INTO THAT ED AND GETS FLIPPED AROUND AND NOT ABLE TO GET BACK OUT UNTIL THEY'RE--? WELL, SO HOPEFULLY THE CLARITY ON THE CANOPY SIGN GETS EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT PATIENTS THERE AND NOT ELSEWHERE.

THE CONTENT OF THE CURRENT SIGN ON THE EAST ENTRANCE IS PROBABLY THE SMALLEST CONTENT WE WOULD PUT BECAUSE ALTERNATIVES ARE LIKE SPARROW MEDICAL GROUP OR PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIANS, OR JUST THINGS THAT ARE LIKE LONGER MORE LETTERS MAKE IT READABLE, IT GETS BIGGER, KIND OF LIKE ALMOST LIKE LESSER OF THE TWO EVILS IN THIS CASE.

SO. MEMBER HENDRICKSON? THANK YOU. MY CONCERN IS THE PARKING FOR THIS BUILDING IS ON THE EAST AND NORTH SIDES OF THE BUILDING, IS IT NOT? YOUR ANSWER TO HOW ARE THEY GOING TO FIND THEIR WAY INTO THE RIGHT DEPARTMENT IS THEY'LL SEE THE EMERGENCY ON THE FRONT SIDE.

MOST PEOPLE WILL, YOU'RE CORRECT, COMING FROM JOLLY, SOME WON'T, AND THE PARKING IS ON THE EAST AND THE NORTH.

SO THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE APPROACHING THE BUILDING [INAUDIBLE]--.

AFTER THEY PARKED THEIR CARS.

THEY WON'T BE APPROACHING THE BUILDING IN SUCH A WAY THAT THEY WILL BE ABLE TO SEE THAT CANOPY SIGN ON THE FRONT THAT SAYS EMERGENCY IF YOU'RE GRANTED THE VARIANCE TO ALLOW THAT SIGN. SO SOUTH, EAST AND NORTH, WE KIND OF HAVE LIKE I WOULD CALL IT, THREE ZONES OF PARKING. BUT THE INTENT, THE SOUTH IS THE EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT PATIENTS SWINGING INTO THE CANOPY. NOT EVERYBODY DROPS SOMEBODY OFF.

I MEAN, SOME PEOPLE JUST GO IN PARK CLOSE AND WALK IN SO THAT CLUSTER, I'LL CALL IT, OF PARKING ON THE SOUTH IS EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT.

THE CLUSTER THAT'S ON THE EAST NORTHEAST ISH IS INTENDED FOR THE PRIMARY CARE AND IMAGING

[00:20:04]

YEAH. I MEAN, WHAT PERCENTAGE OF YOUR BUILDING, JUST FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT HERE, IS BEING USED FOR THE EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT VERSUS THE PRIMARY CARE? LIKE 50/50 [INAUDIBLE]? SO IT'S SPLIT HALF AND HALF YOU THINK? YEAH, IT'S CLOSE, 50/50.

AND WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU EXPECT THAT 50% OF THE PATIENTS COMING WILL BE FOR THE EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT AND 50% WILL BE FOR PRIMARY CARE? I MEAN, I'M ASKING AS A CONTEXTUAL POINT ABOUT THE PARKING, RIGHT? BECAUSE CLEARLY NOT 50% OF THE PARKING IS OUT FRONT.

SO I--.

AGAIN, WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO CONSIDER THE CONTENT OF THE SIGNS CONSIDERING THE CONTENT OF THE SIGNS THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING HERE.

YOU KNOW, WHATEVER YOU'RE GRANTED OR NOT THIS EVENING, JUST KNOW THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A CONFUSION ISSUE WITH SOME OF YOUR EMERGENCY PATIENTS PARKING NOT IN THAT FRONT LOT. RIGHT? AND BEING ABLE TO EFFECTIVELY NAVIGATE YOUR CAMPUS IS GOING TO BE AN IMPORTANT THING TO CONSIDER.

YEAH, IF WE--.

SO THERE'S AN ARRIVAL PATTERN OF SOME PATIENTS VIA AMBULANCE,SS THAT, KIND OF, I FEEL LIKE THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A DELTA.

IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE 50/50, BUT SOME ARE GETTING A RIDE TO OR FROM VIA AMBULANCE.

THAT IS GOING TO HELP THAT MIX A LITTLE BIT.

THANK YOU. WELL, SHALL WE TAKE A STAB AT CRITERIA, SEE WHERE WE LAND? OR DO WE HAVE MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE NUMBER OR THE SIZE OF THESE SIGNS? BECAUSE I THINK FOR WHERE I'M AT RIGHT NOW, THE SIZE OF THE SIGNS IS NOT AS TROUBLING, I THINK AS THE NUMBER.

WHICH I THINK I FEEL LIKE IS WHERE YOU'RE AT.

SO THAT'S--.

BUT I ALSO AM SENSITIVE TO THE FACT THAT THIS IS, I MEAN, RIGHT OFF THE BAT, I CAN SAY THIS IS A UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE TO LUMP THIS UNDER A OFFICE BUILDING CODE, THAT TYPICALLY AN OFFICE BUILDING WOULD HAVE A SIGN AND THAT WOULD BE SUFFICIENT TO GET PEOPLE IN THE DOOR.

BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A UNIQUE USAGE.

IF WE THINK IN PERPETUITY OF THIS STAYING WITH THIS PROPERTY, GOING ON, IF THIS BECOMES SOMETHING ELSE OR CHANGES OR WHAT HAVE YOU, EIGHT SIGNS IS A LITTLE EXCESSIVE FOR ANY OTHER USE OTHER THAN THIS KIND OF MULTI USE ER AND URGENT CARE FACILITIES.

SO, I'M WELCOME TO HEAR ANY MORE DISCUSSION, OTHERWISE, I WILL GO TO CRITERIA.

I JUST WANTED TO ADD A COUPLE SO WEST ELEVATION WHERE STACI WAS REFERENCING THE EASTBOUND TRAFFIC.

SO WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THAT, WE THINK ABOUT LIKE WE PUT IN THE NARRATIVE PORTION, PEOPLE IN VEHICLES ARE TRAVELING AT 45 MILES PER HOUR.

IF THEY'RE HEADING EASTBOUND, THEY HAVE TO MAKE A LEFT TURN INTO THE FACILITY.

IF THEY'RE ATTEMPTING TO ARRIVE AT THE ED, THEY MIGHT BE PANICKED, MIGHT NOT BE IN THE SAME CLARITY OF MIND AS IF YOU'RE NOT IN AN EMERGENT SITUATION.

AND SO HAVING THAT SIGN ON THAT BUILDING FACE AS THEY'RE DRIVING SO THEY CAN SEE IT WHEN THEY'RE TRYING TO ARRIVE AT THE PROPERTY, I THINK IS KEY.

AND THEN WHEN WE LOOK AT WE'RE EXPECTING THAT A LOT OF THE TRAFFIC WILL BE COMING MAYBE OFF OF THE HIGHWAY FROM OKEMOS ROAD.

SO IF WE DID NOT HAVE THAT SIGN ON THE FRONT FACE OF THE BUILDING, THEN PEOPLE ARE--.

THERE'S NOT A GREAT PLACE TO HAVE BOTH DIRECTIONS OF TRAFFIC TRAVEL TO GET IT IN TIME, TO KEEP THINGS SAFE AND FOR THE SPEEDS THAT ARE BEING TRAVELED.

YES, MEMBER HENDRICKSON? SO LET ME JUST SORT OF EXPLAIN WHAT WHAT MY CONCERN IS WITH WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED, BECAUSE EVERYTHING YOU SAY MAKES PERFECT SENSE, RIGHT? AND WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO BE CONFUSED WHEN THEY'RE TRYING TO FIND AN EMERGENCY ROOM BY ANY STRETCH. CHAIR MANSOUR BRINGS UP AN EXCELLENT POINT, WHICH IS THAT WHILE WE HOPE THAT YOU ARE A TENANT AND YOU ARE PRESENT IN THIS LOCATION FOR YEARS TO COME, THERE MAY COME A TIME WHEN YOU ARE NOT AND THE VARIANCE WILL RUN WITH THIS PROPERTY.

AND SO IF EAT AT JOE'S CRAB SHACK DECIDES TO MOVE INTO YOUR PROPERTY DOWN THE ROAD, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE EIGHT SIGNS FOR EAT AT JOES, AND THAT'S A PROBLEM, RIGHT? BECAUSE WE WOULD NEVER APPROVE THAT FOR EAT AT JOE'S CRAB SHACK.

[00:25:04]

I'M JUST--. MAYBE THIS IS A QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS.

I'VE BEEN THINKING [INAUDIBLE].

TO SAY THAT BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE WE ATTACHED--.

YES THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION IF BUT AS FAR AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THERE'S NOT REALLY A WAY TO-- THAT THE VARIANCES OF THE PROPERTY REGARDLESS.

SO--. ON TOP OF THAT CONSIDERATION, ANOTHER ONE TO ADD IN IS THE PART ABOUT THIS WHERE ALTHOUGH WE'RE IN THE PROFESSIONAL OFFICE ZONING, THE REASON WHY WE'RE MAKING THE CASE FOR UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES REALLY DOES BACK IN OVERALL TO THE SAFETY ISSUE AND THE SPECIAL CONDITIONS AROUND URGENT CARE OR AN EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT.

SO WITH HAVING SOME BACKUP FROM OUR REGULATORY STANDARDS LIKE THE FGI-8 2018, THEN COULD IT BE WRITTEN IN THERE THAT BECAUSE OF THE USE THAT WE'RE ASKING FOR THE VARIANCE FOR THAT THAT IS THE REASON WHY THE VARIANCE IS BEING GRANTED.

SO IF YOU DID HAVE A DIFFERENT USE, IF THE PROPERTY EVER WERE TO TRANSFER TO DIFFERENT OWNERSHIP AND A DIFFERENT PLAN, ALL OF A SUDDEN THAT'S KIND OF DECOUPLED FROM THE ORIGINAL INTENT OF HOW THE VARIANCE WAS APPROVED, WHICH WOULD HELP PROTECT YOUR INTERESTS AS WELL. MEMBER HENDRICKSON, DID YOU HAVE A POINT? WELL, I MEAN, WE HAVE STARTED TO TALK ABOUT UNIQUENESS.

AND I AGREE GENERALLY THAT THIS IS A RELATIVELY UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE THAT YOU BRING TO US THIS EVENING, RIGHT? AN EMERGENCY ROOM IN THIS AREA AND THE ZONING IS NOT SOMETHING WE TYPICALLY GET NECESSARILY, NOT SOMETHING THAT I'M AWARE WE'VE EVER HAD IN MARIDIAN TOWNSHIP IN THIS WAY . MY ISSUE, AND I'M JUMPING AHEAD SEVERAL CRITERIA, BUT MY ISSUE WILL BE WITH THE MINIMUM ACTION. I TAKE ISSUE WITH THE AWNING SIGNS ON THE FRONT, ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING, ALL THREE OF THEM, BECAUSE I THINK THEY ARE REDUNDANT TO THE SIGNS THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE ON THE WALLS, THE BIG ONES.

I AGREE THAT YOU NEED TO HAVE A BIG SIGN ON THE WEST ELEVATION.

I AGREE THAT YOU NEED TO HAVE A BIG SIGN ON THE SOUTH ELEVATION.

I COULD EVEN COME TO SAY THAT YOU MIGHT NEED A BIG SIGN ON THE EAST ELEVATION, BUT YOU'VE PUT GLASS ALL ALONG THE SOUTHEAST CORNER.

BUT IT'S THE ADDITION OF THE THE THREE SIGNS THAT RING THE THE AWNING ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING THAT CAUSED ME ISSUE.

I CAN EVEN SEE THE AMBULANCE SIGN BEING FINE ON THE NORTH SIDE TO DETER YOUR AVERAGE PATIENT FROM BLOCKING AN AMBULANCE LOADING AREA, BUT AGAIN, CAN'T THINK ABOUT CONTENT.

SO MY ISSUE, I THINK, WOULD BE IF WE COULD--.

IT'D MAKE A VERY EASY, MUCH EASIER CASE FOR ME TO COME TO A MINIMAL ACTION DECISION, IF WE COULD SAY, OKAY, WE AGREE THAT THEY NEED THE BIG SIGNS ON THE MAJOR FACES OF THE BUILDING, BUT SOME OF THESE SMALLER WAYFINDING SIGNS HAVE GOT TO GO.

THAT, TO ME, IS A MORE MINIMAL ACTION THAN WHAT'S BEING PRESENTED TO US THIS EVENING.

AND NOW I'VE [INAUDIBLE] LONG ENOUGH THAT MAYBE DIRECTOR SCHMITT HAS AN ANSWER [LAUGHTER] ON USE. YEAH, HE CAME TO I AT LEAST HAVE A COUPLE OF THOUGHTS.

YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT, IT RUNS WITH THE LAND, AS DOES ANY VARIANCE.

HOWEVER, THERE'S A COUPLE OF FACTORS THAT PLAY INTO OUR HAND HERE.

FIRST AND FOREMOST, I THINK CLEARLY THIS IS A USE UNLIKE ANYTHING ELSE THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE IN THE TOWNSHIP, AND SO YOUR APPROVAL, SHOULD YOU GET TO THAT POINT, IS GOING TO BE RELIANT ON THE FACT THAT IT'S THE UNIQUENESS OF THE USE AND THE UNIQUENESS OF THE BUILDING. SO THAT'S ONE.

SECONDLY, YOU COULD CERTAINLY CONDITION THE APPROVAL ON ANY CHANGE TO THE SIGNS WOULD REQUIRE COMING BACK TO THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS FOR REVIEW.

I DON'T LOVE IT, BUT I'VE DONE IT BEFORE.

IT'S NOT THE MOST ELEGANT SOLUTION, BUT IT'S DOABLE.

YOU COULD ALSO MAKE A DETERMINATION THAT, AN INTERPRETATION, THAT ONLY THE IN THIS CASE THE SIGNS NOT ON THE CANOPY.

LET'S KEEP IT SIMPLE, BECAUSE THEY'RE ON ALL SIDES, REALLY, THAT THE OTHER SIGNS ARE ACTUALLY CONSIDERED DIRECTIONAL SIGNAGE UNDER THE ORDINANCE, AND YOU'RE ACTUALLY GRANTING THEM THE VARIANCE FOR THE SIZE OF THE DIRECTIONAL SIGNAGE BEING PROPOSED AS OPPOSED TO GRANTING THEM STRAIGHT WALL SIGN VARIANCES, WHICH LEADING TO YOUR POINT, A NEW TENANT COULD THEN SWAP RIGHT OVER.

[00:30:05]

MEMBER HENDRICKSON? IS THERE ANY PRECEDENT IN THE ZONING ENABLING LEGISLATION FOR A SUNSET ON A VARIANCE? NO, NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.

YOU CAN'T GRANT THE VARIANCE FOR THE TERM OF TEN YEARS, AND THEN IF IN TEN YEARS THEY CAN COME BACK OR THE NEXT TENANT CAN COME BACK AND REQUEST IT? NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF THAT WOULD REQUIRE SOME--.

IT'S NOT IN THE LEGISLATION.

WHAT IT WOULD BE IS IT WOULD BE IN A CASE, AND I AM NOT AWARE OF ONE OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. MEMBER KOENIG, GO FOR IT.

SINCE I'M THE NEW GUY ON THE BOARD, I WANTED TO WAIT TO BE LAST.

[LAUGHTER] WELCOME.

THANK YOU. HOP ON IN.

AFTER LISTENING TO THE OTHER BOARD MEMBERS.

I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH MOST OF WHAT THEY'RE SAYING, ESPECIALLY BOARD MEMBER HENDRICKSON.

I'M MORE STUCK AS WELL ON THE NUMBER OF SIGNS.

NOT SO-- OBVIOUSLY NOT THE CONTENT, BECAUSE I DO HAVE A PLANNING BACKGROUND.

I UNDERSTAND HOW THAT WORKS, BUT THE SIZE OF THE SIGNS, I KIND OF UNDERSTAND THAT BASED ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES AND LIKE THE DIRECTOR SAID, THAT THE UNIQUENESS OF THIS BUILDING AND THE USES THAT ARE IN IT.

BACK TO THE NUMBER. I [INAUDIBLE]--.

WELL, THE FIRST QUESTION I WANTED TO ASK, WHICH HE JUST STEPPED [INAUDIBLE], MAYBE THE PLANNER KNOWS, YOU CAN AMEND A VARIANCE WHO CAN DO THAT? CAME FOR THE VARIANCE? NO, NO. IT CAN BE AMENDED AT ANY TIME.

COULD THE TOWNSHIP AMENDED SO THAT IF THIS USE WERE TO BE NOW DEFUNCT AND JOE'S CRAB SHACK COMES IN, COULD THE TOWNSHIP AMEND THAT VARIANCE TO--? LIKE WE WOULD INITIATE THAT? YES. I'M NOT SURE ON THAT.

THAT FEELS LIKE A GREAT WAY TO GET SUED.

YEAH, RIGHT. [LAUGHTER] I KNOW.

YEAH, THAT'S THAT'S WHY I ASK THE QUESTION BECAUSE YEAH. IT DOESN'T EXPLICITLY SAY WHO CAN DO THE VARIANCE AMENDMENT [INAUDIBLE] SAYS THAT YOU CAN DO IT BASED ON THE PROTOCOLS BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.

RIGHT. WHEN DID YOU SAY THE SITE PLAN WAS APPROVED? IT WAS 2001.

IT WAS LAST YEAR.

2021? 2021 SORRY. YEP.

WAS THERE A SIGN PLAN THAT WAS SUBMITTED AS PART OF THE SITE PLAN REVIEW? THE DRAWING THAT WE SUBMITTED IN THIS PACKAGE IS THE FIRST TIME THAT WE'VE SHOWN SIGNAGE ON THE BUILDING, BUT WE DID SHOW THE MONUMENT SIGN LOCATION DEPICTED ON THE SITE PLAN OVERALL DRAWING. OKAY.

THE SIGN ON THE WEST HAND SIDE, I AGREE WITH WHAT EVERYTHING ELSE IS SAYING.

COMING EASTBOUND ON JOLLY BEING THAT THERE'S ANOTHER BUILDING OVER THERE, ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO SEE THAT? BECAUSE THERE'S ANOTHER BUILDING JUST TO THE WEST ON THE WEST SIDE OF KANSAS.

CAN YOU SEE--? ARE YOU GOING BE ABLE TO SEE THAT SIGN OR IS IT GOING TO BE KINDA TOO LATE, SOMEBODY'S GOING TO BE SLAMMING ON THE BRAKES? I'VE KIND OF BEEN DOING NOT TO SAY DRIVE-BY'S, BUT JUST TO SORT OF PRACTICE AND ENVISION WHERE THAT MIGHT BE.

AND IT FEELS LIKE IT GIVES YOU ENOUGH TIME TO MAKE DECISIONS WHERE WE'VE GOT IT SITUATED.

I AGREE. I FEEL LIKE THERE'S A BIG FIELD OF VISION THAT OPENS UP WHERE THAT BUILDING ACTUALLY HASN'T COME IN TO BLOCK MY VIEW ANY TIME I'VE BEEN ARRIVING TO THE SITE FROM THAT DIRECTION. OKAY.

I MEAN, IT'S A BIG ENOUGH SIGN, SO I KNOW YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IT.

I JUST DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT--.

BECAUSE THERE'S A BUILDING THERE AND A BUILDING THAT'S A LITTLE BIT CLOSER INTO THE ROAD, OLDER THAT I DIDN'T KNOW IF IT WAS GOING TO BLOCK OR NOT.

BUT I AGREE WITH THE OTHER KIND OF SENTIMENTS.

YOU KNOW, YOU DO HAVE THAT MONUMENT SIGN OUT THERE AND EVERYBODY'S GOING TO SEE THAT THIS IS A SPARROW FACILITY THAT'S A GOOD SIZED SIGN.

SO I WAS QUESTIONING WHETHER YOU NEEDED THOSE SPARROW SIGNS ON THE BUILDING, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE I KNOW IT'S A STUPID EXAMPLE, BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU DRIVE BY A MCDONALD'S, THEY GOT THE BIG MCDONALD'S HIGH RISE POLE SIGN AND SOME OF THEM HAVE MCDONALD'S SIGN ON THE BUILDING. SOME OF THEM DON'T, YOU KNOW, BY LOOKING AT THE SIGN, IT'S A MCDONALD'S.

SO I WAS QUESTIONING WHETHER THE SIGNS THAT SAY SPARROW COULD BE REMOVED FROM THE BUILDING BECAUSE YOU ALREADY HAVE THE SMALLER GROUND SIGN.

NOW, THAT'S-- I NOTICE THAT THAT'S GOING TO POTENTIALLY BE AN ISSUE IF YOU HAVE SOMEBODY TAKING A BACK ROAD COMING SOUTHBOUND ON OKEMOS AND TAKING THE BACK WAY AND COMING DOWN THIS OTHER SIDE ROAD AND THEN SEEING THE BUILDING, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO KNOW IT'S NECESSARILY A SPARROW BUILDING UNTIL THEY GET ALL THE WAY TO THE INTERSECTION AT OKEMOS AND TURN THEIR HEAD RIGHT AND GO, OH, THERE'S THE SIGNS THAT SAY SPARROW.

OKAY. AND NOW THEY'VE GOT TO BASICALLY DO A U-TURN.

SO I CAN KIND OF UNDERSTAND THE SIGN THAT YOU HAVE ON THE EAST ELEVATION, BESIDES THE CANOPY SIGNS.

THE SIGN ON THE SOUTH SIDE, AS YOU WERE SAYING, I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND WHY THAT'S NEEDED TO BE THERE, BECAUSE THAT'S THE MAIN FACING PART OF THE BUILDING TO THE MAIN SECTION OF THE ROADWAY. BUT AS SOME OF THE OTHER MEMBERS MENTIONED, I DO QUESTION THE NUMBER, ESPECIALLY THE SMALLER SIGNS, YOU KNOW, THE CANOPY SIGNS, TO ME THAT'S A LITTLE TRICKY BECAUSE

[00:35:05]

SO I KIND OF UNDERSTAND WHY THERE'S--.

WHY YOU'RE SHOWING THAT SIGN THERE, BUT I AS WELL, I AGREE THAT I'M KIND OF QUESTIONING THE OVERALL NUMBER OF SIGNS AND WHETHER THEY'RE FULLY NEEDED AS A WAY TO--.

YOU'RE STILL GOING TO NEED A VARIANCE REQUEST, YOU'RE STILL GOING TO NEED TO REQUEST THE VARIANCE BASED ON THE SIZE OF THE SIGNS.

BUT IS THERE A WAY TO KIND OF LESSEN THE VARIANCE AND THE REMOVING SOME OF THOSE SIGNS WOULD BE A WAY TO DO THAT.

THAT'S ALL I HAVE FOR NOW, MADAM CHAIR.

THANK YOU SO MUCH, MEMBER KOENIG.

THAT WAS VERY HELPFUL.

AND AS YOU WERE AS YOU WERE TALKING, I'M LOOKING AT THIS WEST ELEVATION.

WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF THE EMERGENCY ON THE WEST SIDE OF THAT CANOPY IF DIRECTIONALLY YOU'RE COMING IN OFF JOLLY AND YOU'RE HEADING WEST INTO THAT CANOPY FOR DROP OFF.

I MEAN, THAT'S ONE RIGHT THERE I CAN [INAUDIBLE], WE DON'T NEED THAT.

BECAUSE IF YOU'RE NOT COMING IN FROM THE OTHER WAY, I'M ASSUMING YOU'RE GOING TO STRIPE IT. YOU'RE GOING TO GET SOME ARROWS GOING ON THE CEMENT THERE, SO WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS SOUTH-- OR THE WEST CANOPY SIGN OR? I THINK IF YOU WERE ABLE TO REFER BACK TO THE SITE PLAN DRAWING, IF WE COULD PUT THAT UP FOR A MOMENT AND I'LL KIND OF SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE ON ANOTHER PROJECT WE HAVE ON OUR MAIN CAMPUS WHEN WE ADDED THE PLAZA BUILDING BECAUSE WE WERE CHANGING BEHAVIOR FROM WHAT PEOPLE ARE USED TO FOR JUST ARRIVING ON THAT SIDE OF THE ROAD FOR THE PROFESSIONAL BUILDING. BUT YOU GET PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT CLOSELY PAYING ATTENTION TO THE SIGNAGE ANYWAYS, AND THEN THEY START TO GO IN THAT WAY, AND SO IF THEY DO--.

FOR THE PURPOSES OF NOT HAVING OTHER PEOPLE TRY TO DROP SOMEONE OFF THERE AND FOR EVERYONE TO UNDERSTAND IT IS AN AMBULANCE CANOPY.

AS YOU LOOK ABOUT THE CIRCULATION, YOU COULD EASILY COME AROUND AND LOOP FROM UP DOWN TO PULL INTO, YOU KNOW, HEADING EAST INTO THE AMBULANCE CANOPY.

AND SO THAT WOULD BE ONE COMMENT IN TERMS OF A LAST MINUTE NOTICE, IF YOU HAD SOMEONE THAT WAS GOING TO DROP OFF A LOVED ONE AND THEY MISSED THE WHOLE SIGNAGE AT THE FRONT POTENTIALLY TO-- I'M SORRY. I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU.

CAN YOU SAY THAT DRIVING DIRECTION AGAIN SO YOU'RE COMING UP THAT ENTRANCE FROM JOLLY AND THEN YOU'RE CUTTING INTO THAT FIRST--.

YOU'RE COMING THROUGH THE WEST SIDE OF THAT OVERHEAD-- THAT CANOPY FIRST? ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE CANOPY THAT'S RIGHT THERE THEN? I THOUGHT I HEARD YOU SAY AMBULANCE AND--.

THERE'S A SIGN ON--.

YOU HAVE A SIGN, AN EMERGENCY SIGN ON EITHER SIDE OF THAT CANOPY, WHICH IS THE ENTRANCE? SO THE INTENT IS THE EAST SIDE.

YOU'RE DRIVING-- THE WEST SIDE. SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS IF YOU'RE DRIVING IN THROUGH THE EAST SIDE, I'M ASSUMING YOU WILL HAVE SOMETHING THAT SAYS DO NOT ENTER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT FROM THAT--. WEST SIDE.

WEST SIDE. SO RIGHT AWAY I CAN SAY WE CAN GET RID OF A SIGN AND THAT LESSENS IT BY ONE.

AND I CAN TELL YOU ANY LITTLE BIT, ANYTHING WE CAN CHIP OFF IS GOING TO MAKE US FEEL GOOD ABOUT THAT. YEAH. AND I THINK THERE'S GOOD LOGIC TO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

I'M GUESSING THAT SOME THINGS THAT ARE AGED AND NOT IN THE PROJECT ANYMORE, LIKE AT ONE TIME WE HAD A CURB CUT THAT WE WERE PROPOSING ON KANSAS AND SO PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE PULLED IN THERE. SO I THINK IT'S JUST A GOOD OBSERVATION AND PROBABLY NOT AN AREA THAT WOULD BE VERY PAINFUL TO--.

THANK YOU. BECAUSE THAT RIGHT AWAY, JUST LOOKING AT IT AND HEARING WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, I GET THE--. AND I DRIVE THIS DIRECTION A LOT, AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT I CAN SEE THAT EDGE OF THAT BUILDING. SO WHERE THAT EMERGENCY SIGN IS, I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE VISIBLE.

I THINK THAT--.

IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S HARD FOR ME TO LOOK AT IT AND SAY, OH, THAT LOOKS LIKE THAT SIGN IS GOING TO BE LEGIBLE. BUT I THINK A GOOD SIZED SIGN WILL BE PERFECTLY VISIBLE AT 45 MILES AN HOUR, BUT I DO THINK IF WE CAN GET RID OF THAT RIGHT OFF THE BAT, THERE'S ONE THAT'S GONE BECAUSE THAT'S NOT NECESSARY.

I WOULD AGREE THAT THAT AMBULANCE IN THE BACK.

I THINK THAT'S HELPFUL. I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO GET--.

THIS IS A NEW CAMPUS, YOU'RE GOING TO GET DRIVERS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN THERE BEFORE, YOU'RE GOING TO GET NEW PEOPLE THAT ARE COMING IN.

I THINK THAT THAT WILL SAVE SOME TIME FOR PEOPLE THAT MAY BE IN AN EMERGENCY SITUATION, OBVIOUSLY IN AN AMBULANCE.

BUT THEN I GO BACK TO THAT SOUTH ELEVATION AND GO, WHY DO WE HAVE THREE SIGNS AND THIS ELEVATION? CONTENT EXCLUDED, YOU'VE GOT A SPARROW BRANDING SIGN AND AN EMERGENCY SIGN, AND BOTH ARE SHIFTED TOWARDS ONE SIDE OF THE BUILDING WHERE YOU'VE GOT A SMALLER SIGN ABOVE WHERE I'M ASSUMING IS THE ENTRY?

[00:40:01]

OKAY. THERE IT IS.

[LAUGHTER] IT DOES NOT LIKE 50%.

THERE WE GO. OK.

SO. SO YOU'RE SAYING THE SPARROW SIGN NEXT TO THE I'M JUST SAYING WE'VE GOT THREE SIGNS THERE, AND I'M NOT OPPOSED TO IT.

I THINK THAT MEMBER KOENIG DID SAY THAT RIGHT AWAY YOU GET THAT GREAT SPARROW BRANDING ON THE MONUMENT SIGN.

SO CONTENT EXCLUDED, IS THERE A WAY TO LESSEN THIS? IS THERE A WAY TO MAKE THIS TWO SIGNS AS OPPOSED TO THREE SIGNS? IS THERE--? I UNDERSTAND--.

FROM WHAT I'M LOOKING AT THE SIGN ON THE LEFT HERE, I'M ASSUMING IT'S RIGHT OVER THE ENTRANCE? IS THAT IS THAT CORRECT? THAT WOULD BE THE ED ENTRANCE, IT'S ON THE SOUTH FACE OF THE CANOPY, BUT IT SETS YOU UP FROM A PARKING LOT VIEW TO NAME THAT AS THE ENTRANCE CANOPY, YOU KNOW, IT'S TUCKED UNDER.

IT'S GOING TO BE THERE'S GOING TO BE PEOPLE THERE.

BUT THAT YOU SEE THAT FROM THE PARKING LOT.

YEAH. SO HERE'S MY QUESTION.

IS THAT NECESSARY OR IS THAT EMERGENCY SIGN KIND OF TUCKED BACK UNDER WITH A DIRECTIONAL ARROW--. OR I'M SORRY, CONTENT NEUTRAL.

THAT EMERGENCY SIGN IS MOVED OVER SO THAT IT IS IN LINE WITH TOWARDS WHERE THAT ENTRANCE IS? BECAUSE I'M LOOKING AT THE SIZE AND THE SCALE OF THE-- I UNDERSTAND THE SCALE OF THE LARGER SIGNS, BUT THE SMALLER SIGN ON THE CANOPY MAKES ME GO.

OK, UNLESS I'M STANDING IN THE PARKING LOT, DO I SEE THAT LITTLE CANOPY SIGN? AND THAT'S WHERE WE WANT YOU TO SEE THAT CANOPY SIGN IS IN THAT PARKING LOT BECAUSE IT'S JUST SORT OF A DOUBLE CHECK, A--.

IT'S AN AFFIRMATION, BASICALLY, THAT, YOU KNOW, I DROVE IN, I SAW IT ON THE CANOPY, I'M PARKING MY CAR, I'M SEEING IT ON THE CANOPY, I'M WALKING IN.

TO KARRIE'S POINT, YOU'RE NOT ALWAYS IN THE MOST OBSERVANT MINDSET AS YOU'RE ARRIVING, SO IT'S JUST I WOULD SAY THAT'S AN AFFIRMATION.

IF WE THINK ABOUT THE PRIORITY OF THE BIG EMERGENCY SIGN ON THE BRICK AND--.

COULD EVEN GO TO DIRECTOR SCHMITT'S POINT, GO WITH THAT BEING A DIRECTIONAL SIGN.

IF WE'RE SAYING YOU'RE ENTERING AN OFF JOLLY AND THERE'S THE SIGN THAT SAYS EMERGENCY, OR THERE'S A SIGN THERE IN ORDER TO DIRECT YOU INTO THIS PARTICULAR ENTRANCE VERSUS THE EAST ELEVATION WHERE YOU DO NOT HAVE THAT EMERGENCY SIGNAGE, YOU DON'T HAVE A LARGE SIGN, YOU HAVE A SMALLER SIGN THAT'S MORE LIMITED TO JUST THAT USE.

DOES IT, TO THE MCDONALD'S CONVERSATION, DOES IT HELP YOU FEEL BETTER IF THE BRANDING PORTION OF THAT SIGN UP ON THE BRICK WAS DROPPED? I THINK WE'RE BACK TO THE CONTENT NEUTRAL.

IF WE SAY IF WE CUT A THIRD OF THE SIZE OF THAT SIGN UP THERE TO NOT TALK CONTENT, DOES THAT AGAIN, BACK TO IF WE COULD DROP ONE OF THOSE THREE SIGNS, I WOULD FEEL BETTER ABOUT THAT . MEMBER KOENIG? THIS IS VERY DIGGING DEEP AND VERY FAR REACHING, BUT SINCE I'M NEW, I'M GOING TO PLAY THE IGNORANT CARD. DO IT.

[LAUGHTER] YOUR SIGN CODE IS PRETTY SPECIFIC, BUT HAVE YOU HAD ANYBODY IN THE PAST COME TO YOU FOR AN INTERPRETATION ON WHAT IT MEANS FOR ONE WALL SIGN? MEANING, HAVE YOU HAD ANYBODY--? I KNOW ANYBODY IS PROBABLY THINKING DUMMY, THAT MEANS ONE SIGN, PERIOD.

BUT HAVE YOU EVER HAD ANYBODY COME AND SAY, WELL, THEY CAN ARGUE THAT IT'S TOO SUBJECTIVE, THAT THAT COULD BE ONE SIGN PER WALL OR ONE SIGN PER SIDE OF THE BUILDING.

SO IN THE HISTORY OF THE TOWNSHIP, I'M NOT SURE.

BUT AS FAR AS WHAT WE CONSIDER A SIGN, I MEAN, IT'S PRETTY CLEAR THAT IT IS ALL JUST GOING TO BE ONE SPECIFIC BOX THAT WE DRAW AROUND THE LETTERS THAT ARE ON THE SIGN.

[00:45:04]

I'VE SEEN INTERPRETATIONS LIKE THIS IN THE PAST WHERE SOMEBODY IS LIKE, YOUR CODE IS TOO VAGUE. IT COULD BE. I KNOW IT'S WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, IT'S PROBABLY EXACTLY WHAT YOU THINK, EXACTLY WHAT I THINK, IT SAYS, ONE SIGN, PERIOD.

ONE [COUGH] BUT IF YOU HAVE A 150,000 SQUARE FOOT WAREHOUSE BUILDING, ONE SIGN MAY NOT DO THEM JUSTICE OVERALL.

SO I JUST WONDERED IF THERE WAS ANY IN THE PAST, IF YOU KNEW OF ANY INTERPRETATIONS OF THAT ONE-- THE WORD ONE, I GUESS, WHETHER IT'S ONE SIGN, ONE WALL, ONE BUILDING? THE CURRENT ORDINANCE IS UNFORTUNATELY PRETTY CLEAR.

YEAH, IT'S ONE SIGN.

MEMBER HENDRICKSON? SO TO THAT POINT, WE HAVE ISSUED VARIANCES BEFORE, AS RECENTLY AS LAST YEAR IN CERTAIN CASES TO ALLOW FOR MULTIPLE SIGNS FOR VISIBILITY SAKE, BASED ON TRAFFIC PATTERNS.

I THINK WHERE I GET HUNG UP AND WHERE IT SOUNDS LIKE SOME OTHERS ARE GETTING HUNG UP IS THE REDUNDANCY OF THE SIGNAGE AND HOW, YOU KNOW, A MONUMENT SIGN PLUS A WALL SIGN PLUS A CANOPY SIGN, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THESE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE UNIQUE.

I DO. SO MY QUESTION WOULD BE, IF THIS BODY WERE TO APPROVE A VARIANCE WITH LESS SIGNS THAN YOU ARE ASKING FOR, I GUESS I'LL ASK THE STAFF THIS.

THEY CAN COME BACK LATER AND SAY THIS IS A HUGE PROBLEM FOR US, WE NEED TO REQUEST A VARIANCE FOR MORE SIGNAGE, CAN THEY NOT? SO THEY CAN COME BACK AND ASK.

BASICALLY, THEY HAVE TO PROVE CHANGED CIRCUMSTANCES EXIST.

SO THEY COULD COME BACK, I GUESS, AND PROVIDE US WITH A TOTALLY DIFFERENT LAYOUT OF SIGNS AND SAY, THIS IS WHAT WE NEED, AND THEN YOU WOULD DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANTED TO REHEAR THAT CASE IF DENIED.

WELL, I'M NOT SAYING DENIED.

RIGHT. BECAUSE WE CAN APPROVE IT FOR LESS THAN WHAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR.

OH, THEN THEY JUST COME BACK FOR ANOTHER REQUEST.

YEAH. YEAH.

OKAY.

IT IS? YEAH, THEY CAN'T BRING THE SAME THING THAT IT HAS TO CHANGE.

BECAUSE MY THOUGHT IS, OK, IF THERE'S PATIENT CONFUSION, DOCUMENTED PATIENT CONFUSION, IF PEOPLE ARE GETTING INTO ACCIDENTS IN THE PARKING LOT, RIGHT? THAT'S TO ME WITHOUT KNOWING THE LEGAL DEFINITION OF CHANGE OF CIRCUMSTANCE, THAT TO ME IS A CIRCUMSTANCE THAT I WOULD FEEL MUCH MORE WILLING TO GRANT AN ADDITIONAL SIGNAGE TO IF THERE WAS DATA TO BACK UP THE REQUEST THAT'S BEING MADE.

I FIND, TO CHAIR MANSOUR'S POINT, I FIND THE WEST TO SOUTHWEST OVERHANG SIGN REDUNDANT.

I FIND THE SOUTHEAST OVERHANG REDUNDANT.

I THINK THERE'S TWO SIGNS ON THE SOUTH ELEVATION, BIG SIGNS, WHEN THERE COULD BE ONE.

AND IF WE WERE TO ELIMINATE AT LEAST THOSE THREE SIGNS, I FEEL LIKE YOU WOULD ACCOMPLISH WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR WITHOUT ALL OF THE REDUNDANCY THAT I'M SEEING ON THE CURRENT PROPOSAL. DO WE HAVE THE ABILITY [INAUDIBLE] MAYBE KIND OF A QUESTION FOR TIM AND KEITH IF--. CAN WE STRIKE AS YOU GUYS ARE MAKING THE MOTION AND AGREE ON THAT AS AN INTERACTIVE HERE? OR IS IT A COMPLETELY NEW APPLICATION WHERE WE WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK AND TAKE THOSE PIECES OFF OUR--.

OR DO YOU GUYS HAVE THE ABILITY--.

WE COULD, AS A BOARD, TABLE IF WE CAN AGREE WITH YOU TO TABLE IT AND HAVE YOU TAKE A LOOK AND GO BACK AND TAKE A LOOK AND REVAMP AND KIND OF MAKE SOME CHANGES.

I THINK THAT WAY IS A WAY THAT YOU CAN DO IT WITHOUT, AS DIRECTOR SCHMITT SAID, SUBSTANTIAL CHANGES. I MEAN, THIS COULD BE SHIFTING SOME THINGS AROUND, CHANGING SIZES, REMOVING THINGS HERE AND THERE, AND THAT WILL GO A LONG WAY TOWARDS MEETING OUR MINIMUM ACTION, SATISFYING THAT FOR THE BOARD/ WE COULD DO THAT AND WE HAVE DONE THAT AND IT'S HELPED APPLICANTS IN THAT WAY.

I WOULD SAY THAT IN THIS CASE IN PARTICULAR, I, AS AS THE CHAIR OF THE BOARD, WOULD ADVICE THAT WOULD BE A FANTASTIC WAY TO GET TO WHERE BOTH PARTIES ARE SATISFIED.

I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE IT'S NOT LIKE A DENIAL OR PARTIAL DENIAL--.

THAT WOULD JUST BE WE'RE JUST SETTING IT ASIDE UNTIL YOU'RE READY TO COME BACK AND THEN WE CAN RECONVENE AND DISCUSS AGAIN.

I THINK THAT JUST TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION MAYBE THE THINGS THAT WE'VE SAID, IF THAT'S

[00:50:04]

I THINK IT'S AN EXCELLENT IDEA.

MEMBER HENDRICKSON? I THINK IT DOES REQUIRE AN OFFICIAL MOTION TO TABLE IT, SO I WILL GO AHEAD AND MOVE TO TABLE THIS ITEM UNTIL OUR NEXT MEETING, WHATEVER DATE THAT IS.MIC] SUPPORT.

AND SUPPORT BY MEMBER KOENIG.

ARE YOU IN AGREEMENT WITH THAT OR IS THAT A GOOD SOLUTION AS WELL? DEFINITELY APPRECIATE THE INTERACTIVE FEEDBACK HERE.

THAT'S VERY HELPFUL.

YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. WE WANT TO WORK TOGETHER AND WANT THE TOWNSHIP TO BE ABLE TO WORK WITH APPLICANTS AS WELL.

SO THAT SAID--.

JUST FOR CLARITY, ARE THESE SCHEDULE WISE, WHAT WOULD WE LOOK AT? THEY'VE HELD A PUBLIC HEARING SO WE CAN--.

IT WOULD BE ON THE NEXT REGULAR MEETING.

IS THAT MONTHLY? YEAH.

YEAH. WE MET OUR ORDINANCE REQUIREMENTS, SO NOW WE CAN JUST GET IT BACK ON.

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION TO TABLE? DID YOU GET A SUPPORT I DIDN'T HEAR? YES. SUPPORTED BY MEMBER KOENIG.

PERFECT. ALL RIGHT.

WELL, IN THAT CASE, WE'RE GOING TO VOTE ON THE MOTION TO TABLE MEMBER KOENIG.

YES.

AND MEMBER DESCHAINE.

YES. MEMBER HENDRICKSON.

YES. AND THE CHAIR VOTES YES. SO THIS APPLICATION IS OFFICIALLY BEEN TABLED AND HOPEFULLY WE'LL SEE YOU BACK HERE AT THE NEXT MEETING.

ALL RIGHT. IS THERE ANY--? DO YOU HAVE ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS OR IDEAS OR THOUGHTS [COUGH] OR THINGS THAT ARE--? NO, I THINK WHAT WE'LL DO IS JUST SO THAT WE WILL PROBABLY WORK WITH TIM AND KEITH TO MAKE SURE WE MAKE OUR ALTERATIONS AND SAY, DID WE CAPTURE EVERYTHING CORRECTLY AND HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF BACK AND FORTH.

GREAT. ALL RIGHT.

SOUNDS GREAT. THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

AND WE APPRECIATE THE CONVERSATION AS WELL.

AND WORKING WITHIN THE ORDINANCE AND BEING FLEXIBLE, AS MEMBER DESCHAINE SAID.

SO.

THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT.

ON THAT NOTE, WE ARE OFFICIALLY AT NO OTHER BUSINESS, SO I WILL GO AHEAD AND OPEN FOR PUBLIC REMARKS IF THERE'S ANYBODY HERE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK FOR THE PUBLIC THIS EVENING.

AND CITING NO ONE, I WILL GO AHEAD AND CLOSE PUBLIC REMARKS AND OPEN BOARD MEMBER

[9. BOARD MEMBER COMMENTS]

ANYBODY FROM THE BOARD WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK? MEMBER HENDRICKSON? THANK YOU.

YEAH. SO THIS WILL BE MY LAST MEETING ON THE ZBA [LAUGHTER] I WAS FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO HAVE BEEN SELECTED BY THE BOARD TO FILL ONE OF THE VACANCIES ON THE TOWNSHIP BOARD STARTING IN A COUPLE OF DAYS HERE, AND SO I MAY YET BE BACK AS THE BOARD LIAISON DEPENDING ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT TREASURER DESCHAINE WOULD LIKE BUT I DO WANT TO THANK THE CHAIR AND ALL THE MEMBERS, PAST AND PRESENT THAT I'VE SERVED WITH. IT'S BEEN A REALLY ILLUMINATING PERIOD OF TIME HERE ON THE ZBA, AND I HAVE LEARNED A LOT ABOUT THE TOWNSHIP AND THE ORDINANCES THAT CAME ALONG WITH IT, AND I THINK WE'VE DONE A LOT OF GOOD. I THINK WE'VE MADE A LOT OF GOOD DECISIONS OVER THE LAST ALMOST TWO YEARS NOW SINCE I JOINED.

I AGREE WITH WHAT ASSISTANT MANAGER OPSOMMER SAID AT THE BEGINNING BEFORE THE MEETING STARTED, THAT THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST WELL RUN GROUPS IN THE TOWNSHIP.

AND IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE TO TO BE A PART OF IT.

AND TO THE FOLKS AT RENO'S, I'M SORRY.

YOU'LL BE SEEING ME AGAIN ANOTHER WAY MAYBE, BUT WE APPRECIATE YOUR ENGAGEMENT.

[LAUGHTER] SO THANK YOU TO EVERYONE.

AND I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING WHAT GOOD WORK COMES OUT OF THIS BODY IN THE YEARS TO COME.

WELL, I CAN'T PROMISE MUCH, BUT WE APPRECIATE [LAUGHTER].

OH, I'M SAD TO SEE YOU GO, BUT WE WILL MISS YOU, SCOTT, AND WISH YOU ALL THE BEST.

AND CONGRATULATIONS.

THE MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP BOARD IS GETTING AN EXCELLENT BOARD MEMBER IN A NEW TRUSTEE AND I'M EXCITED FOR YOU [LAUGHTER].

TREASURER DESCHAINE TO HAVE TRUSTEE HENDRICKSON HERE.

THAT'S EXCITING, SO.

I WAS THE--. I MADE THE MOTION, HE WAS THE FIRST THAT WE ADDED OF THE TWO AND IT'S OUR GAIN ON THE BOARD.

FOR CERTAIN, IT IS A LOSS TO BOTH THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THE ZBA ABSOLUTELY. ABSOLUTELY.

WE NEED HIM MORE AT THE TOWNSHIP BOARD RIGHT NOW, SO.

YEAH.

WELL, CONGRATULATIONS.

THANK YOU. WE WILL MISS YOU.

YOU HAVE BROUGHT SUCH A LEVEL OF PROFESSIONALISM, BUT ALSO A ATTENTION TO DETAIL AND

[00:55:04]

KEEPING US ALL VERY, VERY HONEST WITH WHAT OUR INTENT HERE IS AS A BOARD, AND I HAVE LEARNED SO MUCH FROM YOU.

SO I WILL MISS YOU TERRIBLY, BUT I WILL BE EXCITED TO WATCH YOU ON THE BOARD.

AND I WISH YOU THE BEST.

THANK YOU SO MUCH. ALL RIGHT.

AND A BIG WELCOME TO MEMBER KOENIG, WHO JOINED US AND HOPPED RIGHT IN WITH BOTH FEET AND GOT RIGHT IN THERE WITH SOME VERY INSIGHTFUL QUESTIONS.

SO I'M VERY THRILLED TO HAVE YOU BECAUSE I HOPE YOU'LL KEEP ME AS HONEST AS THIS GUY DID WITH THIS PLANNING COMMITTEE BACKGROUND.

SO I APPRECIATE IT AND WELCOME.

AND YEAH, YOU GOT A GOOD ONE TO START OUT WITH.

[LAUGHTER] YEAH, YOU KNOW, IT WAS DIFFICULT BECAUSE I WENT FROM DOING TRANSPORTATION PLANNING FOR TEN YEARS AND I LEFT THAT AND I WENT DID LAND USE PLANNING FOR FIVE YEARS, SO TRANSITIONING FROM TRANSPORTATION TO LAND USE, YOU BASICALLY FORGET EVERYTHING YOU LEARN IN COLLEGE PLAN AND ALL THAT STUFF. YEAH.

SO SWITCHING FROM THERE, IT TOOK ME THREE OUT OF THE FIVE YEARS JUST TO GET THE LAND USE HAT [LAUGHTER].

[INAUDIBLE] AGAIN, WITH LEARNING TRANSPORTATION AGAIN THAT I DID FOR TEN YEARS, SPEAKERS], AND NOW I FEEL LIKE I HAD TO DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN FOR THIS BECAUSE NOW I'M GOING BACK TO LOOK AT ZONING CODES AND STUFF, AND I'M NOT TRYING TO BE NITPICKY WITH INTERPRETATIONS AND I WAS JUST TRYING TO SEE WHAT THE RESPONSE WOULD BE AS FAR AS TRYING TO LIMIT THE NUMBER OF SIGNS ON THAT BUILDING.

BECAUSE WE'VE HAD I COULDN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY STUPID INTERPRETATIONS THAT [INAUDIBLE] A NORMAL STAFF WOULD GO. THERE'S NO WAY IN HECK THAT COULD BE INTERPRETED THAT WAY.

AND JUST BECAUSE [INAUDIBLE] ATTORNEY COMES IN AND SAID WE COULD SEE IT THAT WAY, WE WILL SUE THE CITY AND THE CITY OF TURN AROUND AND SAID, ALL RIGHT, WE'LL MAKE AN EXCEPTION.

WE [INAUDIBLE] TO MAKE AN EXCEPTION BECAUSE JUST THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN AND INTERPRETED YES. WELL--.

SPEAKERS]. THERE'S NO STUPID QUESTION HERE BECAUSE I HAVE ZERO PLANNING BACKGROUND.

SO I WILL BE THE HEAD OF ASKING THE STUPID QUESTIONS, BUT THERE ISN'T ONE BECAUSE WE ALL ARE TRYING TO GET TO THE SAME TRUTH, WHICH IS WHETHER OR NOT THIS BOARD CAN APPROVE SOMETHING BASED ON THE FACTS WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US.

SO I LOVED QUESTION. WHO'S THE SECOND TRUSTEE THAT WAS APPOINTED? [INAUDIBLE] WHO WAS SERVING THE BOARD, SHE'S ON THE WALL OVER THERE, SHE SERVED ON THE BOARD 92 TO 96.

OH OK. WELCOME BACK THEN. VERY ACTIVE IN LOTS OF DIFFERENT GROUPS.

SHE HELPED FORM THE BLUE BRIGADE.

SHE IS A VERY ACTIVE VOLUNTEER WITH THE FOOD BANK AND HER CHURCH AND THE FRIENDS OF THE LIBRARY. SHE'S JUST GOT HER HAND IN EVERYTHING AND SHE'S REALLY IN TOUCH WITH THE COMMUNITY. SHE'S GOING TO BRING A LOT OF PASSION TO THE BOARD.

I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF.

DIRECTOR SCHMITT, THE NEW CRITERIA THAT YOU MENTIONED LAST TIME, THE REDUCTION OF 8 TO 5 OF CLARIFIED LANGUAGE, IS THAT NEXT GOING BEFORE THE FULL BOARD, OR ARE YOU GOING TO BRING IT BACK TO THE ZBA? WELL, SO THE PLANNING COMMISSION REVIEWED IT ON MONDAY? YEAH, MONDAY NIGHT.

AND HAD SOME CONCERN WITH SOME OF THE OLD LANGUAGE THAT THEY WOULD LIKE US TO TAKE A LOOK AT, AND SO WE'RE TRYING TO WORK UP A NEW ENDING PHRASE [LAUGHTER] FOR ONE OF THE STANDARDS. WE'LL TAKE IT BACK TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION AT THE NEXT MEETING.

THEN THEY WOULD MAKE A RECOMMENDATION.

WE'LL TAKE IT TO THE BOARD. SO UNLESS THE ZBA WANTS TO SEE IT AGAIN, THE ZBA HAD NO MAJOR CONCERNS WHEN THEY REVIEWED IT.

SO OUR PLAN IS TO HAVE THE PLANNING COMMISSION MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE TOWNSHIP BOARD. IT'S BETTER [INAUDIBLE] GO THAT [INAUDIBLE] PROCESS [INAUDIBLE] ZBA DEFINE ITS OWN PROCEDURES. THAT DOESN'T REALLY GO WELL IN THE LONG TERM.

I TEND TO AGREE. YEAH.

ALL RIGHT. WELL, ON THAT NOTE, IF NOBODY ELSE HAS ANYTHING ELSE, I WILL OFFICIALLY CALL THIS MEETING TO AN END.

WE ARE ADJOURNED.

BYE SCOTT. [LAUGHTER] I WON'T GO FAR.

THEY DIDN'T LIKE SUBSTANTIAL JUSTICE.

OH, IT'S A VERY HAZY PHRASE.

I'M FAIRLY CERTAIN IT'S A LEGALLY ESTABLISHED ONE, THOUGH.

I'M DIGGING INTO IT--.

I HOPE YOU CAN COME BACK AND SAY THAT.

I'M PRETTY SURE IT'S PART OF THE CASE LAW.

ALTHOUGH SUBSTANTIAL JUSTICE WAS NOT IN ADDITION TO IN THE NEW.

IT IS IN THE EXISTING ORDINANCE.

IN THE EXISTING. IT'S AN EXISTING--.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.