IT IS 6:34, AND TODAY IS FEBRUARY 16TH 2022.
[Items 1 & 2]
[00:00:06]
I WILL NOW CALL THE ORDER THIS MEETING OF THE CHARTER TOWNSHIP OF MERIDIAN ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, AND IT LOOKS LIKE FIRST, WE ARE LOOKING TO APPROVE TONIGHT'S AGENDA.SO MOVED. MOVED BY MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER.
SUPPORT. SUPPORTED BY TREASURER DESCHAINE.
ANY DISCUSSION ON THE AGENDA OR ANYTHING WE NEED TO AMEND TO THAT.
ALL RIGHT. IN THAT CASE, CAN WE GO AHEAD FOR THE VOTE? MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER.
YES. THE AGENDA FOR TONIGHT'S MEETING HAS BEEN APPROVED.
NEXT ON OUR AGENDA IS THE MINUTES FROM WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 8TH OF 2021.
[3. CORRECTIONS, APPROVAL AND RATIFICATION OF MINUTES]
I WILL MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES AS WRITTEN.[LAUGHTER] SUPPORTED BY MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER AND ANY NOTES, RATIFICATION, ANY MISSPELLINGS.
I WENT THROUGH THEM WITH A FINE TOOTH COMB.
ON THAT NOTE I WILL CALL FOR A VOTE TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 8, 2021. MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER.
THE MINUTES FROM DECEMBER 8TH ARE APPROVED.
NEXT ON THE AGENDA IS COMMUNICATIONS, OF WHICH THERE ARE NONE LISTED IN THE PACKET.
AND NEXT ITEM WOULD BE UNFINISHED BUSINESS, WHICH AGAIN, THERE IS NONE LISTED IN THE PACKET. SO I WILL GO ON TO AGENDA ITEM 6, WHICH IS NEW BUSINESS THAT BRINGS US TO ZBA
[6A. ZBA CASE NO. 22-01-19-1 (2075 Grand River Avenue), Frank Gawdun, 1743 East McNair Drive Ste. 200, Tempe, AZ 85283]
CASE NUMBER 22-01-19-1 2075 GRAND RIVER AVENUE, FRANK GAWDUN.HOPEFULLY I SAID THAT CORRECT.
1743 EAST MCNAIR DRIVE, SUITE 200 TEMPE, ARIZONA 85283.
AND WITH THAT, I WILL TURN IT OVER TO MR. CHAPMAN. GOOD EVENING.
THIS IS A VARIANCE REQUEST FOR A REAR YARD SETBACK.
SO THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A VARIANCE TO CONSTRUCT A TWELVE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY SQUARE FOOT DRIVE THROUGH CANOPY TO THE EXISTING FOUR THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED AND THIRTY SQUARE FOOT CHICK-FIL-A AND THE APPROXIMATE 1.32 ACRE SITE IS ZONED C3 COMMERCIAL.
THERE WAS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT THAT WAS GRANTED IN 2015 THAT ALLOWED FOR THE DRIVE THRU ON THE CHICK-FIL-A RESTAURANT.
THE BUILDING WAS CONSTRUCTED IN 2016 AND IN 2020 THERE WAS A SLIGHT RECONFIGURATION TO THE DRIVE THRU LANES.
THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING TO CONSTRUCT THIS TWELVE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY SQUARE FOOT DRIVE THROUGH CANOPY ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE PROPERTY LINE.
THIS WILL BE USED TO PROTECT EMPLOYEES FROM THE ELEMENTS WHILE THEY TAKE OUTDOOR ORDERS.
THIS PROPOSED CANOPY IS APPROXIMATELY SIX FEET TEN INCHES FROM THE REAR PROPERTY LINE AND THE REQUIRED REAR YARD SETBACK IS 20 FEET, SO THE VARIANCE REQUEST IS FOR 13 FEET TWO INCHES TO CONSTRUCT THE CANOPY.
OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAPMAN. WOULD THE APPLICANT OR THE APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATION LIKE TO COME UP AND ADD ANYTHING AND JUST PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD, SIR.
YOU FOR ASKING. ALL RIGHT. MY NAME IS FRANK GAWDUN AND I WORK WITH CHICK-FIL-A.
I'M HERE ON BEHALF OF CHICK-FIL-A TO REPRESENT THEM FOR THE CHICK-FIL-A CANOPY PROGRAM.
SIR, COULD YOU JUST TAKE YOUR ADDRESS FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD? SO MY ADDRESS IS 1743 EAST MCNAIR DRIVE SUITE 200 TEMPE, ARIZONA.
OK. SO WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO BRING UP SHEET NUMBER, A1 WHICH IS THE SITE PLAN.
WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE ACROSS THE NATION IS WE'RE PUTTING IN THESE DUAL CANOPIES.
AND WHAT HAPPENS HERE IS THE REASON FOR THESE CANOPIES IS OVER THE LAST FOUR OR FIVE YEARS, CHICK-FIL-A HAS NOTICED THAT TRAFFIC IS INCREASING THE POPULARITY OF THEIR STORES OR EVERYONE YOU GO TO TRAFFIC IS RUNNING OUTSIDE OF THESE TRAFFIC LANES AND INTO OTHER PARTS OF THE SHOPPING CENTER OR EVEN ONTO THE STREET, WHICH IS CREATING A DANGEROUS SITUATION. SO WHEN THEY FIRST ADDRESSED THIS BACK IN 2016, THEY THOUGHT THEY WOULD REVAMP THEIR KITCHENS TO INCLUDE THE USE OF ORDER POINT, OR I'M SORRY OF A POS SYSTEM THAT'S ON A LIKE AN IMAC.
OK, SO THEY WERE TRYING TO DO THAT AND THEY WOULD TAKE 16 MEMBERS AND PUT THEM OUT IN
[00:05:01]
FRONT OF WHERE THESE TWO EXISTING ORDER POINT MENU BOARDS ARE.AND THEY WOULD ATTACK SIX CARS AT ONE TIME.
AND WHAT HAPPENS IS IT STARTS RAINING OR IT GETS COLD LIKE IT IS HERE AND YOU CAN'T USE THOSE EMPLOYEES OUT THERE ANYMORE BECAUSE IT'S TOO DANGEROUS TO KEEP THEM OUT THERE IN THE COLD WEATHER, HEAT AND SO FORTH.
SO THEN THEY CAME AND DECIDED TO DO THESE CANOPIES IN HERE.
SO THEY'VE COME UP WITH A DESIGN TO INSTALL THESE CANOPIES.
AND WHAT THESE CANOPIES DO IS HELP SHELTER THE EMPLOYEES FROM THE WEATHER ELEMENTS.
THEY'RE KEEPING COOL IN THE SUMMER BY PUTTING A FAN UNDERNEATH THESE CANOPIES, AND THEN THERE'S LIGHTING AS WELL FOR WHEN IT GETS DARK LATER ON IN THE YEAR EARLIER.
AND THEN ALSO, WE HAVE RADIANT GAS HEATERS THAT ARE UNDERNEATH THERE TO KEEP THEM WARM DURING THIS TIME OF THE YEAR, ESPECIALLY IN THIS CLIMATE HERE.
SO WHAT THE CONCEPT IS, IS IF WE CAN KEEP THE EMPLOYEES OUT THERE FOR A LONGER SHIFT DURING THE BUSIEST HOURS OF THE DAY, THEN YOU KNOW, THEY CAN ATTACK THE SIX CARS, GET THE ORDERS IN THERE AND IT HELPS EXPEDITE THE DELIVERY OF THE FOOD.
THIS IS ABOUT THE FIFTH, PROBABLY ABOUT 520TH STORE THAT WE'RE WE'VE BEEN DOING OVER FIVE YEARS AND WE'RE ATTACKING ALL THE LOCATIONS ACROSS THE NATION THAT DON'T HAVE THESE KIND OF CANOPIES. IT'S NOW THEIR STANDARD DESIGN TO INCORPORATE THIS KIND OF A CANOPY.
SO IF THIS WAS A PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT WAS BARREN AND WE WERE STARTING FROM THE GROUND UP, WE WOULD HAVE THESE CANOPIES IN THERE.
SO OUR ISSUE HERE IS THIS IS AFTER THE FACT SITUATION AND AS THE PLANNER MENTIONED THAT THIS CANOPY, ESPECIALLY THE FACE TO FACE CANOPY HERE, THIS ONE WOULD BE APPROXIMATELY 13 FEET, 2 INCHES, 13 FEET, 5 INCHES OVER THE EXISTING BUILDING SETBACK LINE.
AND SO WE'RE ASKING FOR RELIEF TO BE ABLE TO INSTALL THE CANOPY IN THIS AREA.
THE CANOPIES THEMSELVES ARE MADE OUT OF STRUCTURAL STEEL.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S CASE ON FOOTING.
AND THEN THEY HAVE A POWDER COAT PAINT FINISH TO THEM SO THAT IT MATCHES THE BRONZED ANODIZED FINISH THAT'S AROUND THE TRIM OF THE STORE.
AND THE TRELLIS IS THAT YOU HAVE THERE.
THERE'S A WHITE UNDER COATING FOR THE DECK.
THAT UNDER COATING IS ALSO POWDER COAT, PAINT FINISH AND THEN THE FANS IN AND THE HEATERS ARE PRETTY, THE FANS WON'T BE THAT LOW PROFILE, BUT THE HEATERS ARE PRETTY LOW PROFILE.
AND THAT'S KIND OF THE MEANS AND METHODS OF THESE OPERATIONS FOR THIS TYPE OF SYSTEM.
SO IT'LL BE REPEATED AGAIN AT THE, YOU'LL SEE ANOTHER CANOPY THAT'S OVER THE DRIVE THRU WINDOW AND IT'S THE SAME SITUATION THERE.
THEY'LL HAVE TWO OR THREE EMPLOYEES OUT THERE, TEAM MEMBERS, AND THEY'LL BE PASSING FOOD BACK AND FORTH TO THE CARS, WHICH HELPS SPEED UP THE PROCESS AND HOPEFULLY GET THIS TRAFFIC TAME DOWN A LITTLE BIT.
OKAY. [INAUDIBLE] YOU WOULD BE SO KIND AS TO JUST STAY WHERE YOU ARE THAT WAY, IF WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, WE COULD ASK YOU AS WE GO ALONG, IF THAT'S OK WITH YOU.
SURE. IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE HERE FROM THE PUBLIC THAT WOULD LIKE TO ADD ANYTHING TO THIS VARIANCE REQUEST? IF NOT, WE'RE GOING TO GET INTO BOARD TIME.
ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? I KNOW I HAVE A COUPLE IF NOBODY ELSE HAS ANYTHING RIGHT OFF THE BAT.
I DRIVE BY THIS FREQUENTLY AND IT IS OFTEN ALMOST A MOB SCENE OUT THERE BETWEEN THE CARS AND THE PEOPLE RUNNING FOOD BACK AND FORTH.
I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE DEALING WITH A LOT, PROBABLY MORE DEMAND THAN YOU EXPECTED.
I THINK IT'S A TRIBUTE TO YOUR PRODUCT AND YOUR PEOPLE THAT ARE VERY WELL RECEIVED HERE IN MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP. MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP REALLY LOVES OUR CHICK-FIL-A HERE.
AND SO YOU'VE GOT AN EXCESS, IF YOU WILL, OF CUSTOMERS FOR WHAT YOU CAN HANDLE IN THAT FACILITY. SO WITH YOUR EXISTING SITUATION, HAVE YOU HAD ANY SAFETY ISSUES? HAVE YOU HAD ANY PEDESTRIAN VEHICLE INCIDENTS THAT YOU KNOW OF? NO, WE HAVE NOT. IF YOU NOTICE ON THE SITE PLAN, THERE'S PROBABLY THIS SHEET A2.
IF YOU COULD PLEASE FLIP OVER TO THAT ENLARGED VIEW, ESPECIALLY WHERE THE FACE TO FACE CANOPY IS THE ONE THAT IS ENCROACHING BEYOND THE SETBACK.
YOU'LL SEE THAT THERE'S A TEAM MEMBER STRIPE WAY IN THERE THAT PROTECTS THE TEAM MEMBER IN THERE, AND WE HAVE. SO YOU'LL HAVE TO STRIPING TEAM MEMBER WALKWAYS IN THERE, AND THAT PROTECTS THE TEAM MEMBER FROM THE CAR.
SO IT KEEPS THE CAR MOVING INTO A CERTAIN LANE AND WE WANT THEM TO FOLLOW A CERTAIN PATH AND THEN THEY EXIT THROUGH THERE.
AND ALTHOUGH IT'S NOT SHOWN ON THE MEAL DELIVERY CANOPY, THERE WILL BE A TWO FOOT STRIPING IN THERE. WE JUST DON'T SHOW IT ON THERE BECAUSE OF ALL THE LINE WORK.
THEN IT CONFUSES EVERYBODY AS TO WHAT'S GOING ON UNDERNEATH THERE WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT, DRAFTING WISE GRAPHICALLY.
WHAT IS THE STRAIGHT PATH ABOVE WHERE YOU ARE PROPOSING TO PUT THESE CANOPIES?
[00:10:02]
YEAH, THAT. OK.YEAH, THAT'S AN EXISTING BYPASS LANE THAT I GUESS WAS CREATED WAY BACK IN THE INCEPTION OF THIS LAYOUT FOR THIS THIS SITE.
GO AHEAD. MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER.
AND IS THERE ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE SITE TO PUT THIS SO THAT YOU WOULDN'T NEED A VARIANCE? NOT REALLY. THE CORRELATION AND RELATIONSHIP OF THESE TWO CANOPIES AND THE DISTANCES THAT THEY ARE APART ALLOWS FOR, YOU KNOW, YOU'LL HAVE SIX TEAM MEMBERS WITH SMART TABLETS AND THEY'RE GOING TO SEND THAT ORDER TO AN INSTANT.
AND THEN THE TRICK IS BY THE TIME THE CARS FUNNEL OUT INTO THE SINGLE LANE AND GO UP TO THE KITCHEN, THAT ORDER IS READY TO GO.
SO CHICK-FIL-A, ON THEIR PART, HAS COMPLETELY REVAMPED THEIR ORDERING SYSTEM IN THEIR STORES. YOU HAVE ONE SET OF EMPLOYEES THAT ARE DEDICATED TO THE DINING AREA WHEN THEY HAVE THE OPEN DINING ROOM, AND THEN YOU HAVE A WHOLE SET OF DIFFERENT EMPLOYEES THAT ARE DEDICATED TO THIS DRIVE-THRU AREA TO HELP GET THESE CARS OUT OF HERE.
IN THE CITY I'M FROM TEMPE, ARIZONA THERE'S A STORE ABOUT A MILE AND A HALF DOWN THE ROAD.
IT'S ONE OF THEIR BETTER STORES, AND WE HAD A SITUATION WHERE THE CARS WERE NOT ONLY BLOCKING DRIVEWAY ENTRANCES INTO THE NEIGHBORING SHOPS, BUILDINGS AND SO FORTH, BUT THERE WAS ALSO RUNNING OUT ONTO THE STREET, WHICH WAS EXTREMELY HAZARDOUS.
YOU COULDN'T EVEN TAKE A LEFT TO GET IN.
AND NOW, SINCE THEY PUT THIS DUAL LANE CANOPY IN THERE, THEY'RE RUNNING ABOUT 67 CARS EVERY 15 MINUTES.
SO IT'S NO LONGER A TRAFFIC HAZARD THERE.
AND THEY ARE, THEY'RE PUSHING IT OUT.
MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER, KEEP GOING.
IT'S ALL YOU. AND SO IS THERE A WAY TO MAKE IT SMALLER? WELL, THE ISSUE YOU HAVE HERE IS I.
YEAH, NOT REALLY. NOT WHERE THIS BUILDING SETBACK LINE IS.
YOU KNOW, I WANT TO MENTION ALSO THAT THIS BUILDING SETBACK LINE IS A REAR SETBACK THAT FACES AWAY FROM YOUR STREET, THE FRONT STREET, WHICH IS GRAND RIVER AVENUE.
SO REALLY, THIS IS A REAR LINE SETBACK AND YOU ALSO HAVE A DRIVEWAY THROUGH THERE ALREADY THAT SERVICES THE REST OF THE SHOPPING CENTER PARKING LOT IN THERE.
AND SO YOU MENTIONED WHAT HAS TAKEN PLACE IN TEMPE.
AND LIKE TREASURER DESCHAINE, I'VE SEEN ALL THE CARS IN THE PARKING LOT, THOUGH I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY INSTANCES WHERE THEY'RE BACKED UP INTO GRAND RIVER.
HAVE YOU BEEN MADE AWARE OF ANY OF THESE INSTANCES? NOT YET. BUT THAT'S THE ISSUE HERE WITH CHICK-FIL-A.
THEY'VE GOT THEIR EYES ON A LOT OF THESE STORES AND THIS IS ONE OF THEM, AND THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS ISN'T A SITUATION THAT HAPPENS LATER ON DOWN THE LINE.
THEY WANT TO BE PROACTIVE AND DO THIS NOW BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE.
AND HOW LONG IS CHICK-FIL-A BEEN AT THAT LOCATION? WELL, THE STORE WAS BUILT IN 2016 THANK YOU, MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER.
AND TREASURER DESCHAINE, GO AHEAD.
YES. CAN YOU SHOW IT ON THE DIAGRAM WHERE THE FOUR STEEL POSTS ARE FOR THE STRUCTURE? YEAH, IF YOU GO TO THE ENLARGE PLAN, YOU'LL SEE THAT THE STRUCTURE IS ACTUALLY OVER, THE SUPPORTING COLUMNS ARE ACTUALLY OVER THE BUILDING SETBACK LINE IN THAT FIRST LANE RIGHT UP AGAINST THE CURB.
THEY'LL BE ONE TWO THREE TINY LITTLE SQUARES THERE AND THEN IN THE DRIVE THRU LANE IS ANOTHER SET OF COLUMNS THAT LINE UP WITH THESE AND IT'LL BE A CANTILEVERED SYSTEM.
SO YOU'LL HAVE A COLUMN HERE AND YOU'LL HAVE A COLUMN HERE AND THEIR PLACE SO THAT THEY'RE IN THE CURVE AREA HERE AND THAT TEAM MEMBER WALKWAY AND THE SETBACK VIOLATIONS ARE ON THE SOUTHERN END OF THE PROPERTY.
SO IS THE CANTILEVER AREA OVER THIS BACK AREA ARE THE POST AND THE POSTS ARE WITHIN THE ALLOWED AREA OR ARE THE POST ALSO IN THE? BOTH. BOTH? YEAH, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THE CANTILEVERED AREA AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THE ROOF STRUCTURE IN THE POSTS FOR THE FIRST LANE BEYOND THAT 30 FOOT SETBACK LINE.
OK. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF.
I KNOW THIS WAS GIVEN A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
IS PART OF THAT DRIVEWAY IS ALREADY NON-CONFORMING TO THE SETBACK LINE, IS THAT CORRECT? SO. REGARDING IF THE SPECIAL COMPENSATION WASN'T GIVEN, THIS WOULD BE CONSIDERED NON-CONFORMING. IT WOULD ALREADY HAVE BEEN IN THE SETBACK, CORRECT? SO THE DRIVE, THE PARKING LOT ITSELF CAN BE 15 FEET.
[00:15:06]
OK. SO I THINK FROM WHAT I'VE LOOKED, IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT OVER THAT SETBACK.SO IT WASN'T BUILT EXACTLY WITHIN THOSE SPECIFICATIONS.
SO IS THIS BEYOND BUILDING THE CANOPY AND EITHER STAFF OR MR. GAWDUN, YOU ARE REBUILDING THIS DRIVE THRU LANE OR THIS IS AS EXISTING AND YOU'RE JUST ADDING THIS CANOPY? IT'S THE EXISTING DRIVE THRU LANE, AND WE'RE JUST ADDING THE CANOPY TO IT.
SO WE'RE USING ALREADY, YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING THAT'S ALREADY THERE.
RIGHT. AND A GOOD PORTION OF THAT, WELL, NOT A GOOD PORTION, BUT YOU KNOW, I WOULD ESTIMATE FIVE TO SIX FEET OF THAT DRIVE THRU LANE IS ALREADY BEYOND THAT 30 FOOT SETBACK.
RIGHT. THAT'S I GUESS THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IF THE DRIVE THRU LANE EXISTS AND IT'S ALREADY INTO THAT SETBACK.
THEY'RE BUILDING A CANOPY, NOT REARRANGING THE DRIVE THRU.
I'M JUST LOOKING TO MINIMUM ACTION, IF THAT HELPS.
LIKE MY FELLOW BOARD MEMBERS, BECAUSE WITH IN MY REASONING, WE HAVE EXISTING DRIVE THRU LANES AND THAT IS NOT BEING AFFECTED OR CHANGED.
THEREFORE, PERMEABLE SURFACE AND THINGS LIKE THAT AREN'T BEING CHANGED.
THE ONLY THING THAT'S BEING ADDED IS THOSE FOOTINGS AND THAT CANTILEVERED CANOPY.
EVERYTHING ELSE IS AS EXISTING IS THAT AM I.
CORRECT. UNDERSTANDING THAT CORRECTLY? YES. OK, YES.
MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER. SO TO GO BACK TO ONE OF MY PREVIOUS QUESTIONS? WAS THERE ANY INVESTIGATION OR DID YOU TALK WITH ANY OF THE ENGINEERS AS FAR AS WHETHER OR NOT YOU COULD DO SOMETHING WITHIN THE PARAMETERS OF THE ORDINANCE? OR IS THIS JUST A DESIGN THAT YOU ARE USING FOR ALL CHICK-FIL-A'S, REGARDLESS OF THEIR LOCATION? IT'S A COMBINATION OF BOTH.
WE USE THIS PRETTY MUCH REGARDLESS OF ALL THEIR LOCATIONS BECAUSE YOU'RE DRIVING UP TO THE CANOPY AND THIS, FOR EXAMPLE, I'M IN THE CAR HERE, RIGHT? SO I'M GOING TO NEED A PERSON ON THE RIGHT HERE OUT OF THIS LEFT SIDE OF THE CAR TO TAKE THE ORDER. RIGHT? SO IF WE WERE TO PUSH THIS FARTHER IN, WE COULD DO THAT.
BUT THEN IT TAKES AWAY THIS BYPASS LANE, WHICH I THINK WAS A KIND OF AN ISSUE STICKING POINT AT THE PREVIOUS DESIGN CONCEPT FOR THIS STORE.
SO WHAT WE'RE DOING IS JUST TAKING WHAT WE HAVE HERE AND MAKING THE BEST OF IT.
YES. TREASURER DESCHAINE. REGARDLESS OF WHAT WE DO WITH THIS PROPOSAL WITH THIS KIND OF OVERFLOW BUSINESS DAY IN AND DAY OUT HAS IT OCCURRED TO THE COMPANY TO BUILD A SECOND STORE HERE IN MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP.
NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF RIGHT NOW.
THIS IS ACTUALLY A GREAT TIME TO GRAB COMMERCIAL SPACE, AS YOU PROBABLY KNOW.
[LAUGHTER] AND GET AND WELL, I DON'T WANT TO CANNIBALIZE THIS STORE.
BUT LIKE THERE'S ANYTHING CLOSE TO HAPPENING IN THE WESTERN EDGE OF OUR TOWNSHIP CLOSER TO CAMPUS, THAT AREA IS GROWING VERY, VERY QUICKLY RIGHT NOW AS WELL.
A LOT OF NEW DEVELOPMENT AND I WOULD GUESS A PRETTY DECENT PORTION OF YOUR BUSINESS COMES FROM CAMPUS. I KNOW SOME STUDENTS WHO THEIR MAIN EXPOSURE TO MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP IS COMING TO CHICK-FIL-A. SO JUST SOMETHING YOU MIGHT WANT TO TAKE BACK WITH YOU TO TEMPE.
SURE. YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE A VERY SUCCESSFUL FORMULA HERE.
YOU PROVIDE AN EXCELLENT PRODUCT FOR A FAIR PRICE AND YOU MIGHT FIND A SECOND STORE WOULD BE SUPPORTED HERE IN MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP.
YEAH. AND TO YOUR POINT, I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF THEY HAVE SOMETHING ON THE BOARD ALREADY. IT'S JUST I'M NOT INVOLVED IN THAT SIDE OF THE BUSINESS.
AND SO USUALLY THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, THEY SCAN FOR PROPERTIES ALL THE TIME, AND THEY'RE USUALLY ABOUT TWO YEARS AHEAD OF US.
AND THAT'S PRETTY MUCH ALL I CAN OFFER YOU THAT I KNOW OF.
OK. I THINK WE ARE READY TO TAKE A LOOK AT CRITERIA DOES THAT SOUND GOOD TO EVERYBODY.
UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE UNLESS ANYBODY HAS ANY OTHER QUESTIONS SORRY, I SHOULD HAVE ASKED THAT FIRST BEFORE I JUMPED IN.
CRITERIA NUMBER ONE, UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES EXIST THAT ARE PECULIAR TO THE LAND OR STRUCTURE THAT ARE NOT APPLICABLE TO OTHER LAND OR STRUCTURES IN THE SAME ZONING DISTRICT. I'M OPEN TO HEARING OTHERS COMMENTS ON THAT ONE.
ARE YOU HAVING A HARD TIME I AM. OK, SO I AM DEFINITELY OPEN.
WELL THAT WASN'T EVEN THE ONE I WAS.
I WAS. OH, THAT'S NOT THE ONLY ONE, BUT THAT IS OK.
WELL. AND I WOULD GATHER THAT THIS IS A UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE BEING THAT IT ALREADY EXISTS AND THAT IT'S SOMETHING THAT WAS NOT THOUGHT OF BEFORE, BUT I CAN SEE IT PROVIDING BOTH FURTHER. WELL, I GUESS I'M MAKING A CASE FOR PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES, BUT
[00:20:05]
I CAN MAKE IT AS A UNIQUE CASE BASED ON THE FACT THAT THIS EXISTS.THIS IS JUST ADDING TO A STRUCTURE THAT ALREADY EXISTS.
I WOULD CONCUR WITH THAT. [LAUGHTER] SEE, WE CAN MAKE A CASE FOR IT.
BUT WHAT ARE THE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES? IT'S I MEAN, A WELL APPRECIATED ATTENDED FAST FOOD RESTAURANT IN THE PARKING LOT OF A GROCERY STORE.
I WOULD SAY THAT THE LOCATION, THE TRAFFIC AND THIS FLOW THERE, THIS THE WAY THAT THE DRIVE THRU LANE HAS ALREADY BEEN SET UP.
OK. AGAIN, IF WE'RE GOING IN PERPETUITY, ANY BUSINESS THAT COMES IN HERE THAT HAS A TWO LANE DRIVE THRU THAT'S OFF OF BUSINESS HIGHWAY THAT'S IN A BUSY PARKING LOT WITH THAT FLOW, I WOULD ARGUE THAT THAT WOULD GIVE IT A UNIQUE STANDING REGARDLESS OF CORPORATE AFFILIATION. ALL RIGHT. IF I GIVE YOU THAT ONE THEN I CAN'T GIVE YOU NUMBER TWO THESE SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES ARE NOT SELF-CREATED.
FAIR ENOUGH. SO THEN I'M LIKE, I'M OPEN.
WELL, I THINK SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES ARE NOT CREATED SELF-CREATED IN THE SENSE THAT THEY DESIGNED POORLY.
I THINK BECAUSE OF THE CURRENT ENVIRONMENT WE HAVE WITH THE PANDEMIC AND WITH PEOPLE CHANGING THE WAY THEY CONSUME RESTAURANT MEALS AND MAY DO THAT INDEFINITELY, THERE IS A SITUATION WHERE THEIR DRIVE THRU IS NOT ADEQUATE AS IT WAS INITIALLY DESIGNED.
I DON'T THINK THEY POORLY DESIGNED THE DRIVE THRU.
I THINK THEY FOUND AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE THE DRIVE THRU IS TWO OR THREE TIMES WHAT THEY MIGHT HAVE EXPECTED. AND ADJUSTING TO THAT TO THOSE ADDITIONAL NEEDS.
OK, BUT MY I MEAN, WHEN CHICK-FIL-A FIRST CAME IN, THAT WAS PRE PANDEMIC AND THEY'VE ALWAYS HAD CROWDS THAT HAVE GONE THERE.
SO I CAN'T FOLLOW THE PANDEMIC ARGUMENT BECAUSE THAT ISSUE HAS BEEN THERE SINCE THEY FIRST OPENED, EVEN ON THE WEST SIDE OF TOWN.
OR IF YOU GO TO GRAND RAPIDS, I MEAN, IT'S LIKE THAT WHEREVER THEIR RESTAURANTS ARE.
AND SO IN MY MIND, AND PERHAPS IT'S JUST THAT, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY LOVES THEIR CHICKEN SANDWICHES. I LOVE THEIR CHICKEN SANDWICHES.
BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THAT IS NOT SOMETHING NEW.
YES, BUT IS IT SELF-CREATED? HAVE THEY CREATED THE DEMAND FOR THEIR PRODUCT THAT OR ARE THEY RESPONDING TO THE DEMAND ? OR DID YOU NOT DESIGN IT KNOWING THE DEMAND WAS THERE? WELL, I THINK THOUGH, WHAT MR. GAWDUN SAID EARLIER IN HIS PRESENTATION WAS THAT THEY HAVE NOW DISCOVERED THAT THIS DESIGN GOING FORWARD IS WHAT THEY'RE PUSHING BECAUSE OF THAT VOLUME LEVEL AND THAT HAD THEY BUILT THIS TODAY THEY WOULD HAVE USED THIS MODEL.
CORRECT. AND WHAT YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND IS FROM ABOUT 1990 TO ABOUT 2006 EVERYBODY IN AMERICA WANTED A CHICK-FIL-A IN THEIR SHOPPING CENTER IN THEIR TOWN.
AND SO THEY DID NOTHING WRONG.
AND NONE OF THE BOARDS ARE ANY OF THE PLANNING DEPARTMENTS DID ANYTHING WRONG BECAUSE THEY FOLLOWED ALL THE RULES FOR RESTAURANT DESIGN.
AND AT THAT, YOU KNOW, AT THAT EARLY STAGE OF THEIR INFANCY, IF YOU WANT TO CALL THAT, YOU KNOW, THEIR CUSTOMER BASE WAS X.
AND NOW WITH THEIR POPULARITY AND AND EVERYTHING THAT THEY'RE DOING AS FAR, I MEAN, THEY'RE GUILTY OF GOOD CUSTOMER SERVICE IN MY MIND.
AND NOW EVERYBODY GOES TO THEM.
I MEAN, THERE ARE OTHER RESTAURANTS.
I WON'T NAME THE CHAINS THAT ARE RIGHT NEXT TO THEM, AND THE LINE TO CHICK-FIL-A IS AROUND THE BLOCK. AND THE LINE OF THESE OTHER RESTAURANTS AREN'T AND IT'S ALL BECAUSE OF THEIR CUSTOMER SERVICE.
AND I MIND YOU, THIS ISN'T ABOUT MONEY HERE BECAUSE THEY'RE CLOSED ON SUNDAYS, RIGHT? SO THIS IS MORE ABOUT PROVIDING A HEALTHY ATMOSPHERE FOR THEIR EMPLOYEES THAT HAVE TO BE OUT THERE TO HELP MITIGATE THIS TRAFFIC SITUATION.
AND I DON'T DISAGREE WITH A THING THAT YOU SAID.
MY CONCERN IS THAT THIS VARIANCE RUNS WITH THE PROPERTY.
AND SO AT SOME POINT IN TIME, LET'S SAY CHICK-FIL-A OUT GROWS THAT SPACE, THAT STRUCTURE AND EVERYTHING THERE STAYS THERE.
[00:25:05]
MAYBE ONE OF THOSE OTHER, YOU KNOW, NON NAMED RESTAURANTS OR SOMEONE ELSE COMES IN.AND DOESN'T NECESSARILY NEED THAT.
WELL, NOW YOU'VE GOT THIS STRUCTURE THAT'S THERE, WHAT DO YOU DO WITH IT? AND I WHOLLY SUPPORT CREATING AN ENVIRONMENT THAT IS GOOD FOR THE EMPLOYEES, SO THEY'RE NOT STANDING OUT THERE WITH THOSE LONG LINES.
I MEAN THAT I APPLAUD THIS EFFORT.
I'M JUST TRYING TO GET THROUGH ALL OF THE CRITERIA TO JUSTIFY WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING.
I JUST NEED HELP GETTING THERE.
COULD THAT NOT BE PART OF THE CASE, THOUGH, THAT IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE THAT THIS PROTECTS WHATEVER EMPLOYEES MAY BE IN THESE LOCATIONS AND IN THIS WEATHER THAT WE HAVE, THIS LOVELY SIX MONTHS IN MICHIGAN THAT WE SUFFER THROUGH.
I GUESS IF IT'S A DRIVE THRU, THAT'S THAT'S THE. OR IF IT'S NOT.
BUT AGAIN, I'M LIKE, I'M OPEN.
I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
WE'VE HAD OTHER CANOPIES WE'VE DEALT WITH HERE.
I'M OPEN. AND BELIEVE ME, I DON'T WANT TO PROLONG THIS.
DO YOU KNOW HOW YOU DRIVE THROUGH TRAFFIC HAS CHANGED OR INCREASED IN THE PAST TWO YEARS WITH THE ONSET OF THE PANDEMIC.
I COULDN'T GIVE YOU NUMBERS LIKE THAT, BUT I KNOW THAT WHEN THESE RESTAURANTS ARE FORCED TO CLOSE THEIR DOORS, YOU KNOW, FOR INTERNAL DINING, THEN YEAH, TRAFFIC DOUBLED AND TRIPLED IN SOME CASES.
RIGHT. AND EVEN IF YOUR RESTAURANT DINING ROOM IS OPEN, MANY CONSUMERS PREFER NOT TO GO INTO AN ENCLOSED SPACE, AND WE MAY BE IN THAT ENVIRONMENT FOR A WHILE TO COME, WHICH AGAIN POINTS TO THIS UNIQUE SITUATION THAT THEY'RE FACING, WHICH IS THAT EVEN THEIR DINING ROOM ISN'T FULL WHILE THE LINES ARE THE CAR LINE IS GROWING LONGER AND LONGER.
CORRECT. AND IT'S A MATTER OF CONVENIENCE.
YOU KNOW, YOU GOT A LOT OF PARENTS THAT HAVE KIDS AND THEY DON'T HAVE TIME TO COME HOME AND COOK DINNER AFTER THEY'VE TAKEN SOMEBODY TO A SOFTBALL GAME OR BASEBALL GAME OR WHATEVER ACTIVITY THEY'RE INVOLVED.
SO THERE'S A LOT OF FACTORS HERE.
AND I THINK I WOULD ADD TO THAT WOULD ARGUE THAT THIS IS KIND OF THESE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS HAVE REALLY CHANGED CONSUMER HABITS AND THAT CHICK-FIL-A IS RESPONDING TO THAT CHANGE IN CONSUMER HABITS BY SAYING, HEY, WE KNOW WE CAN CREATE A LITTLE LESS PROBLEMS IN OUR DRIVE THRU AND ACCOMMODATE MORE PEOPLE BY USING THESE STRUCTURES.
I'M GOING TO PUT A PIN IN CRITERIA TWO FOR A SECOND AND MOVE ON.
I THINK DIRECTOR SCHMITT IS PROBABLY REALLY EXCITED FOR US TO HAVE GOTTEN TO A POINT WHERE WE MIGHT SMASH ONE AND TWO TOGETHER AT SOME POINT AND ONLY HAVE 5 CRITERIA TO LOOK AT. [LAUGHTER] CRITERIA NUMBER THREE, A STRICT INTERPRETATION AND ENFORCEMENT OF THE LITERAL TERMS AND PROVISIONS OF THIS CHAPTER WOULD RESULT IN PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES.
GO AHEAD, MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER.
THOUGHTS. I WILL HOLD UNTIL OTHER PEOPLE.
I WOULD I MEAN, I THINK WE COULD GO BACK TO, AS I WAS SAYING BEFORE, THE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES I SEE HERE IS CREATING A FLOW OF BUSINESS THAT RESPONDS NOT ONLY TO THE DEMAND THE TRAFFIC OF THE AREA, THE FLOW OF THE CARS AND PROTECTS BOTH EMPLOYEES AND CUSTOMERS. I THINK THAT THEY HAVE ALREADY CREATED THIS TWO LANE DRIVE THRU SYSTEM THAT, LET'S BE HONEST, CAN GET REALLY FRUSTRATING AND A LITTLE BIT HAIRY AT MOMENTS IF PEOPLE AREN'T PAYING ATTENTION.
IF YOU'VE GOT KIDS SCREAMING IN THE BACKSEAT OR THERE'S PEOPLE CROSSING, I MEAN, IT'S I CAN SEE WHERE THIS DESIGN, AS IT EXISTS, CAN CREATE FLOW PROBLEMS. AND BY ADDING THIS CANOPY, IF THAT ALLOWS THEM TO BRING PEOPLE OUT SAFELY.
I MEAN, REGARDLESS OF THE BUSINESS, AGAIN, I COULD SEE THAT THIS IS NOT A NEGATIVE, I THINK THAT IT WOULD.
IT ALLEVIATES SOME OF THE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES OF RUNNING THIS PARTICULAR LOCATION.
I WOULD CONCUR WITH THE CHAIR ON THAT ONE.
I KNOW, BUT WE ALL HAVE TO CONCUR. THAT'S THE PROBLEM WE HAVE THREE PEOPLE, SO WE'VE GOT TO HAVE A QUORUM HERE TONIGHT.
OK, WE'RE GOING TO GO TO CRITERIA NUMBER 4 THAT THE ALLEGED PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES WILL RESULT FROM A FAILURE TO GRANT THE VARIANCE WOULD UNREASONABLY PREVENT THE OWNER FROM USING THE PROPERTY FOR ITS PERMITTED PURPOSE.
[00:30:04]
THIS IS WHERE I'LL GIVE YOU.I CAN'T NECESSARILY MEET THAT BECAUSE THEY'RE OPERATING FULLY FUNCTIONING AND WITHOUT ISSUE. I WOULD ASK IF STAFF KNOWS, HAS THERE BEEN ANY ISSUES AS FAR AS MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP POLICE OR INGHAM COUNTY OR ANYONE THAT HAS SAID ANYTHING REGARDING THIS TRAFFIC OR HOW THIS WOULD POSITIVELY IMPACT.
ABOUT THIS SPECIFIC APPLICATION, NO, BUT I HAVE RECEIVED A NUMBER OF COMPLAINTS CONCERNS SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE. OK. AND I KNOW THOSE EXISTED PRIOR TO MY TIME HERE.
GIVEN THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC THAT THAT GOES INTO THIS DRIVE THRU.
I THINK MY UNDERSTANDING WAS THERE WAS SOME CHANGES MADE DURING THE SITE PLAN PROCESS FROM THEIR ORIGINAL STANDARD.
AND IN HINDSIGHT, THEIR ORIGINAL STANDARD WAS PROBABLY THE BETTER IDEA HERE, GIVEN THE VOLUME THAT THEY SEE AND NOW THE INCREASED VOLUME THAT THEIR SEEING.
AND SO GIVEN THAT IT WAS THIS INTERNAL, IT'S AN INTERNAL LANE ON AN INTERNAL PROPERTY LINE SHIELDED FROM THE ROADS THAT THIS WAS AND WE TALKED TO THEM ABOUT POTENTIALLY DOING TEMPORARY STRUCTURES.
WE TALKED TO THEM ABOUT DOING PERMANENT STRUCTURES, BUILDING [INAUDIBLE].
I MEAN, THERE'S BEEN A NUMBER OF CONVERSATIONS AND THIS WAS ULTIMATELY THE ONE THAT WAS SETTLED ON TO BE AS LITTLE IMPACT ON THE TRAFFIC FLOW AS POSSIBLE WHILE STILL TRYING TO ACCOMMODATE THE NEED TO COVER THE EMPLOYEES IN THE WEATHER.
OK. MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER GO AHEAD.
SO IF I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY THE DESIGN THAT CHICK-FIL-A ACTUALLY OFFERED WHEN THEY WERE FIRST WORKING TO COME HERE WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE BEEN BETTER, BUT WE CHANGED IT.
THE TOWNSHIP SUGGESTED THAT THEY CHANGE THAT.
YEAH, SOME OF OUR ORDINANCE STANDARDS AT THE TIME WERE A LITTLE DIFFICULT ON THE SIZE OF THIS PROPERTY BECAUSE IT'S A TIGHT LOT.
MEYER OBVIOUSLY WAS ONLY LOOKING TO GIVE UP SO MUCH PROPERTY.
AND SO THERE WAS A COUPLE OF, YOU KNOW, RELATIVELY MINOR CHANGES BUT ULTIMATELY IT HAS AN IMPACT. WHEN YOU HAVE A DRIVE THROUGH, YOU HAVE TO COME IN AND MAKE A TURN, MAKE A TURN AND THEN CIRCLE BACK.
YOU KNOW, YOU CAN ONLY GET SO CLOSE TO CARS IN A SITUATION LIKE THAT, PEOPLE AREN'T AS CONFIDENT AND YOU HAVE A LARGER VEHICLE MAKING THAT SORT OF HAIRPIN-Y TURN INTO THE DRIVE THROUGH TAKES UP THE EXTRA SPACE.
AND SO THE TRAFFIC FLOW THROUGH THIS FACILITY IS EXTREMELY DEPENDENT ON THE TYPE OF CAR AND THE QUALITY OF DRIVER THAT COMES THROUGH.
SO TO GET THE MAXIMUM FLOW THROUGH THIS, YOU HAVE TO HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE DRIVING COMPACTS AND GETTING CLOSE TO EACH OTHER BECAUSE THAT INITIAL HAIRPIN IS A TIGHT TURN.
OK THANK YOU. SO IT DOES BEAR AN INHERENTLY TRAFFIC PROBLEM.
THERE IS AN INHERENT TRAFFIC PROBLEM WITH THE LAYOUT OF THIS DRIVE THRU LANE AND THERE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW.
IT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN AVOIDED BASED ON A SITE PLAN BECAUSE I DO REMEMBER WHEN THIS HAD COME UP. AND IT'S HARD.
I MEAN, IT'S JUST REALLY TRICKY TO GET THE CARS IN THERE.
I THINK WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE THE BEST OF A VERY TIGHT SITUATION.
CRITERIA NUMBER FIVE, GRANTING THE VARIANCE IS THE MINIMUM ACTION THAT WOULD MAKE POSSIBLE THE USE OF LAND OR STRUCTURE IN A MANNER WHICH IS NOT CONTRARY TO THE PUBLIC INTEREST AND WHICH WOULD CARRY OUT THE SPIRIT OF THIS ZONING ORDINANCE, SECURE PUBLIC SAFETY AND PROVIDE SUBSTANTIAL JUSTICE.
I'M GOOD. YOU CAN MEET MINIMUM ACTION.
I CAN MEET ALL. YOU CAN MEET THEM.
WELL, THEN IN THAT CASE, VARIANCE NUMBER SIX, GRANTING THE VARIANCE WILL NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT ADJACENT LAND OR ESSENTIAL CHARACTER IN THE VICINITY, WE CAN MEET THAT ONE AND CRITERIA NUMBER SEVEN CONDITIONS PERTAINING TO THE LAND OR STRUCTURE ARE NOT SO GENERAL OR RECURRENT NATURE AS TO MAKE THE FORMULATION OF A GENERAL REGULATION OF SUCH CONDITIONS PRACTICABLE. WE CAN MEET THAT AND FOR SOME REASON, MY PRINTER CUT OFF NUMBER EIGHT, WHICH IS GRANTING THE VARIANCE, WILL GENERALLY BE CONSISTENT WITH PUBLIC INTEREST AND THE PURPOSES AND INTENT OF THIS CHAPTER.
ALL RIGHT. IN THAT CASE, I WILL GO AHEAD AND PUT FORTH A MOTION TO APPROVE THE VARIANCE REQUEST FOR ZBA CASE NUMBER 22-01-19-1.
SUPPORT. SUPPORTED BY TRUSTEE DESCHAINE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION.
YOU GOT, ANYTHING. ARE YOU SURE? NO, I APPRECIATE THE FOLLOW UP THAT THE TOWNSHIP PROVIDED I AM IN FULL SUPPORT.
ALL RIGHT, IN THAT CASE I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY I THINK THAT WHAT I APPRECIATE MOST AND
[00:35:08]
I SAY THIS MORE TO OUR FUTURE MEMBER WHO IS SITTING IN THE AUDIENCE HERE IS HOW THOROUGH WE DO DISCUSS THESE THINGS AND MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE DOING THE BEST THING WE POSSIBLY CAN DO FOR THE TOWNSHIP, AND THAT IT IS TRULY SOMETHING THAT WILL BENEFIT THE TOWNSHIP IN PERPETUITY. SO WITH THAT SAID, I'M GOING TO GO AHEAD AND TAKE A VOTE.THIS IS TO APPROVE THE VARIANCE REQUEST.
OK. YOUR VARIANCE HAS BEEN GRANTED, SIR.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING TONIGHT.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE LOOK FORWARD TO LESS TRAFFIC ISSUES AT THE CHICK-FIL-A.
THANK YOU. OK, ON THAT NOTE, WE WILL MOVE ON TO OUR SECOND CASE OF THE EVENING.
LET ME SCROLL ALL THE WAY BACK UP TO THE TOP HERE.
OK. ZBA CASE NUMBER 22-02-16-1 5000 OKEMOS ROAD, MICHIGAN DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
[6B. ZBA CASE NO. 22-02-16-1 (5000 Okemos Road), Michigan Department of Transportation, 2700 Port Lansing Road, Lansing, MI 48906]
2700 PORT LANSING ROAD, LANSING, MICHIGAN 48906.AND WITH THAT, MR. CHAPMAN, IT'S ALL YOURS.
OK, SO THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING VARIANCES FROM OUR WETLAND SETBACKS OF 40 FEET AND 20 FEET. SO MICHIGAN DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION IS REQUESTING VARIANCES TO ALLOW FOR A COMPENSATING CUT THAT WILL BE IN THE 100 YEAR FLOOD PLAIN LOCATED AT 5000 OKEMOS ROAD.
THIS COMPENSATING CUT IS TO OFFSET THE PLACEMENT OF TWELVE THOUSAND NINE HUNDRED AND FIFTY THREE CUBIC YARDS OF FILL THAT WILL BE USED IN ORDER TO RAISE GRAND RIVER AVENUE TWO FEET IN ORDER TO ALLEVIATE FLOODING AT THE INTERSECTION OF GRAND RIVER AND OKEMOS ROAD. SO THIS COMPENSATING CUT WILL REMOVE FOURTEEN THOUSAND NINE HUNDRED AND TWENTY SIX CUBIC YARDS OF DIRT ON PROPERTY THAT IS OWNED BY MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP, WHICH IS CURRENTLY OUR FIRE STATION.
MICHIGAN DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENT, GREAT LAKES AND ENERGY ISSUED A PERMIT FOR THIS PROPOSED WORK IN THE FLOODPLAIN ON NOVEMBER 4TH 2021.
THE PROPERTY IS 24.59 ACRES IN SIZE AND IS ZONED C3 COMMERCIAL.
ON THE PROPERTY THERE IS ONE LARGE WETLAND.
THIS EXTENDS OFF SITE TO THE SOUTH AND IS APPROXIMATELY 19.11 ACRES IN SIZE, AND ABOUT HALF OF THAT, OR WETLAND, IS LOCATED ON THE SUBJECT SITE.
BECAUSE OF THIS, WETLAND IS GREATER THAN FIVE ACRES IN SIZE IT IS REGULATED BY BOTH THE STATE OF MICHIGAN AND MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP.
IN OUR ZONING ORDINANCE, WE SPECIFY THAT ACTIVITIES ARE PROHIBITED WITHIN 20 FEET AND 40 FEET FOR WETLAND SETBACKS.
SO THE 40 FOOT WETLAND SETBACK PROHIBITS ANY STRUCTURES OR GRADING AND THE 20 FOOT WETLAND SETBACK ALLOWS FOR SELECTIVE PRUNING AND THINGS TO BE REMOVED.
SO AT ITS CLOSEST POINT, THE PROPOSED COMPENSATING CUT WOULD BE LOCATED ZERO FEET FROM THE WETLAND BOUNDARY, WHICH ENCROACHES 20 FEET INTO THE 20 FOOT NATURAL VEGETATION STRIP AND 40 FEET INTO THE 40 FOOT WETLANDS SETBACK.
SO THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A 20 FOOT VARIANCE AND A 40 FOOT VARIANCE.
WOULD THE APPLICANT LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS CASE TONIGHT? AND JUST PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD, SIR.
I WORK FOR THE MICHIGAN DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION, 3908 SUN RAPIDS OKEMOS, MICHIGAN.
GO AHEAD, MR. RICK. IF YOU'D LIKE TO ADD ANYTHING TO THAT THAT MR. CHAPMAN SAID. YEAH, THIS IS NEAR THE FIRE STATION RIGHT BEHIND THE POST OFFICE.
AND AS FAR AS HOW WE ENDED UP SELECTING THE SITE AND GOT TO THIS POINT MYSELF, TO BE HONEST, OUR TOWNSHIP ENGINEER AND OUR DRAIN COMMISSION HAD A FIELD REVIEW OF SEVERAL LOCATIONS, AND THIS ENDED UP BEING OUR FAVORED LOCATION BETWEEN THE TOWNSHIP AND DRAIN COMMISSION AND OUR DEPARTMENT.
IT'S LOCATED WITHIN THE 100 YEAR FLOOD PLAIN, AND PART OF OUR PROJECT WILL BE TO MINIMIZE THE AMOUNT OF FLOODING ON GRAND RIVER.
WE HAVE KNOWN FLOODING PROBLEMS. WE CAN'T FULLY ELIMINATE THEM BECAUSE OF THE AREA UPSTREAM, VASTLY GREATER THAN OUR
[00:40:05]
GENERAL AREA AROUND THE RED CEDAR.BUT YOU KNOW HOW THE WATER RISES AND FALLS ON THE RED CEDAR.
AND IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN THIS SPRING, HOPEFULLY NOT AS SEVERE AS IT DID A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, ESPECIALLY NOW THAT WE ARE LOOKING AT BUILDING THIS JOB.
SO WE KIND OF KNOCK ON WOOD AND HOPE FOR FAVORABLE WEATHER.
BUT OUR BEST OPPORTUNITY TO MITIGATE A FLOOD PLAIN FILL IS TO OFFSET THAT CUT REALLY IN A CLOSE LOCATION NEARBY.
WE'RE GOING TO RAISE THE GRADE BOTH NEAR NAKOMA AND NEAR OKEMOS, ABOUT A THOUSAND FOOT STRIPS AT EACH LOCATION, UP TO ABOUT TWO FEET.
AND WE'RE GOING TO UPDATE SOME OF THE DRAINAGE, IMPROVE THE MEYER DRAIN WITHIN THE RECONSTRUCT AREA, IMPROVE THE GRETTENBERGER SO THAT THE COUNTY DRAIN COMMISSION CAN COME BACK LATER AND DO SOME FURTHER IMPROVEMENTS.
SO WE WORKED REAL COLLABORATIVELY BETWEEN THE TOWNSHIP, THE DRAIN COMMISSION, THE ROAD COMMISSION TO SEE WHAT WILL HAPPEN THIS YEAR COMING UP.
AND I KNOW IT'S GOING TO BE A CHALLENGE FOR A LOT OF US FOLKS DRIVING IN THE AREA.
ONE GENERAL COMMENT I HAVE AS FAR AS GETTING USED TO THE TRANSITION, WE DO HAVE THE BRIDGE JOB THAT THE COUNTY IS PERFORMING.
SO THE START OF THE DETOUR HAS ALREADY BEGUN.
AND WHEN WE START OUR PROJECT, THEN IT WILL COINCIDE WITH THOSE DETOURS AND WE'RE WORKING COLLABORATIVELY TOGETHER AS ONE COHESIVE TEAM HERE TO TRY AND ACCOMPLISH A BETTER GOAL FOR THE TOWNSHIP AND ITS RESIDENTS.
GREAT, THANK YOU SO MUCH, MR. RICK. IF YOU'D LIKE TO JUST STAY PUT FOR JUST A MOMENT WHILE WE ASK IF THERE'S ANYBODY ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS CASE THIS EVENING.
AND IF NOT I'M GOING TO GET INTO OUR BOARD TIME? ANYONE HAVE ANY INITIAL THOUGHTS OR QUESTIONS? YES, MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER, GO AHEAD.
SINCE THE. WOULD YOU LIKE TO SORRY HOLD ON ONE SECOND.
HELLO THERE. I'M YOUNES ISHRAIDI CHIEF ENGINEER, AND I WANTED TO SPEAK ON THE MERITS OF THIS APPLICATION AND THE BIG PROJECT.
AS YOU ALL KNOW, THE FLOODING PROBLEMS WE HAVE ON OKEMOS ROAD.
AND THIS IS A CRITICAL CRITICAL APPLICATION PERMIT APPLICATION TO GET THIS PROJECT GOING.
WITHOUT IT WE WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE ALL THESE PROBLEMS. AND AS JACK MENTIONED, WE SPEND A LOT OF TIME RESEARCHING THE SITES APPROPRIATE TO DO THIS COMPENSATING CUT.
AND UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAD TO DEAL WITH THIS WETLAND AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE.
OTHERWISE WE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN HERE.
SO IT WAS JUST TOUGH TO FIND THE RIGHT PLACE AND IT IS ON TOWNSHIP PROPERTY.
YOUNES, BEFORE YOU LEAVE THE PODIUM.
YOUNES, BEFORE YOU LEAVE THE PODIUM IN TERMS OF THE OTHER SITES YOU CONSIDERED USING, WOULD THERE HAVE BEEN SETBACK ISSUES WITH THOSE AS WELL? YES. AS BAD OR GREATER THAN THE ONE ON THIS ONE? I'M ALMOST CERTAIN ALL OF THEM WERE BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO BE ONE OF THE SITES, ACTUALLY.
WE'RE GOING TO BE COMING BACK BEFORE THIS BODY HERE FOR A VARIANCE BECAUSE WE HAVE OUR MSU TO LAKE LANSING TRAIL PHASE TWO.
WE WERE GOING TO BE ASKING THE SAME THING.
RIGHT. THAT JACK'S ASKING FOR.
OK. PRETTY MUCH. YEP. THANK YOU SO MUCH YOUNES.
MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER GO FOR IT.
SINCE THE FIRE STATION IS ON THE SAME PROPERTY, IS THERE ANY WILL THERE BE ANY ISSUES WITH THE FIRE STATION, ANY PROBLEMS THAT THIS WILL CAUSE FOR THAT PROPERTY OR HAS THAT BEEN CONSIDERED? GOOD QUESTION.
OUR CONTRACT DOCUMENTS REQUIRE THE CONTRACTOR TO NOT DAMAGE ANYTHING, OBVIOUSLY, BUT THEY'LL BE USING THE FIRE DEPARTMENT PARKING LOT TO GET BACK TO THAT SITE IS ESSENTIALLY OFF OF THE BACK SIDE OF THE DRIVE.
OK. THAT THERE'S A BIT OF AN ACCESS ROAD AND OUR CONTRACTOR WILL BRING IN THEIR EQUIPMENT, TAKE CARE OF THE BALANCING ON SITE AND THEN TAKE THE EQUIPMENT OUT OF IT.
IT WON'T AFFECT THE CORRECT? YEAH. YEAH.
AND IT WOULDN'T INCREASE FLOODING POTENTIAL FOR THE FIRE STATION WITH THE CUT BEHIND IT.
NO, THE CUT IS GOING TO AN UPHILL AREA, SO WE'RE GOING TO DIG OUT THE HOLE.
[00:45:09]
AND WHAT WE LOOK THROUGH OVER TIME THE AMAZING THING ABOUT SOME OF THE GOOGLE AND HISTORICAL MAPS YOU CAN SEE NOW THAT AREA APPEARED TO ME AND MY TECHNICIAN WHEN WE REVIEWED IT, LIKE IT GOT FILLED ORIGINALLY AND IT WAS PRIOR A WETLAND, THIS AREA THAT WE'RE EXCAVATING. SO COULD THIS END UP REESTABLISHING ITSELF AS A WETLAND AND EXPANSION OF THE EXISTING WETLAND? I THINK IT MIGHT END UP HAPPENING THAT WAY.DO I KNOW FOR SURE? I DO NOT. AND THAT WHOLE AREA ACTS AS A FLOODPLAIN CONTROL AREA IN GENERAL.
I THINK ON THAT, THAT KIND OF TOPIC, WHAT, IF ANYTHING, IS A DRAWBACK OF CREATING THIS CUT IN A WETLAND? WHAT COULD THAT POTENTIALLY DO TO THAT WETLAND THAT SOMEBODY MAY HAVE DRAW ISSUE WITH OR THAT? IS THERE ANY DRAWBACK TO BUILDING IN THIS WETLAND? I GUESS IS THE ONLY REAL REMAINING QUESTION THAT I HAVE.
I, IN MY OPINION, NO, WE'RE NOT LOWERING IT BELOW THE EXISTING WETLAND THAT THE LEVEL OF THE CUT IS ROUGHLY TO THE TOP OR EVEN WITH THAT EXISTING WETLAND.
SO IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S GOING TO SUCK IT DRY MEYER DRAIN. SO IT'S ALWAYS BEING FED.
AND WHEN THE MEYER DRAIN CHARGES UP, IT DISPERSES IN THIS AREA.
SO WE'RE CREATING THAT FILL AND WE'RE OFFSETTING WITH THE CUT REAL CLOSE BY.
IN FACT, IN THAT SAME WATERSHED.
JUST CLARIFYING EGLE HAS ISSUED THE PERMIT FOR THIS, CORRECT? THEY HAVE, YES. AND ALSO, I WANT TO KNOW IF THAT ON MONDAY, THE PLANNING COMMISSION APPROVED A SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO ALLOW FOR THE FILL PLACEMENT IN THE FLOODPLAIN AS WELL.
WELL, I THINK I'M GOING TO GO THROUGH CRITERIA.
I'VE GOT CRITERIA ONE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES EXIST, WHICH I CAN MEET QUITE EASILY AND CRITERIA NUMBER TWO THESE SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES ARE NOT SELF-CREATED, WHICH AGAIN, I THINK WE CAN AGREE THIS IS VERY MUCH NATURE AT ITS FINEST.
CRITERIA NUMBER THREE, STRICT INTERPRETATION AND ENFORCEMENT OF THE LITERAL TERMS AND PROVISIONS OF THIS CHAPTER WOULD RESULT IN PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES.
WE HAVE SEEN THAT. AND WE ALL HAVE DRIVEN THROUGH THE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES OF NOT IN THE STRICT INTERPRETATION HERE.
CRITERIA FOUR THAT THE ALLEGED PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES WOULD RESULT IN FAILURE TO GRANT THE VARIANCE WOULD UNREASONABLY PREVENT THE OWNER FROM USING THE PROPERTY FOR PERMITTED PURPOSE. I CAN MEET THAT CRITERIA.
CRITERIA FIVE GRANTING THE VARIANCE IS THE MINIMUM ACTION THAT WILL MAKE POSSIBLE THE USE OF LAND OR STRUCTURE IN A MANNER WHICH IS NOT CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST, WHICH WOULD CARRY OUT THE SPIRIT OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE, SECURE PUBLIC SAFETY AND PROVIDE SUBSTANTIAL JUSTICE, WHICH I CAN EASILY MEET THAT AS BEING THE MINIMUM ACTION.
CRITERIA NUMBER SIX, GRANTING THE VARIANCE WILL NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT ADJACENT LAND OR ESSENTIAL CHARACTER. IN FACT, I THINK IT WILL ONLY IMPROVE THE ADJACENT LAND AND CHARACTER.
AND CRITERIA SEVEN THE CONDITIONS PERTAINING TO LAND OR STRUCTURE ARE NOT SO GENERAL OR RECURRENT IN NATURE. WELL, THE FLOODING IS GENERAL RECURRENT IN NATURE EVERY SPRING, BUT HOPEFULLY WITH THIS IT WILL NOT ANY LONGER BE.
I CAN MEET THAT CRITERIA AND CRITERIA NUMBER EIGHT, WHICH LET ME SCROLL ALL THE WAY BACK UP SO I CAN ACTUALLY READ IT.
GRANTING THE VARIANCE WILL BE GENERALLY CONSISTENT WITH PUBLIC INTEREST IN THE PURPOSES AND INTENT OF THIS CHAPTER, AND I CAN FULLY MEET THAT AS WELL.
ALL RIGHT, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMENTS, DISCUSSION? ALL RIGHT. DO I HAVE A MOTION? I MOVE TO APPROVE THE VARIANCE FROM ZBA CASE NUMBER 22-02-16-1 TO GRANT THE FORTY FOOT AN THE TWENTY FOOT VARIANCES FOR THE WETLAND CUT. SUPPORT.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ABOUT THE MOTION? OK, ON THAT NOTE, WE'LL GO TO A VOTE.
YES. THIS IS A MOTION TO, OR I'M SORRY, A VOTE TO APPROVE THE VARIANCE AS REQUESTED.
CHAIR VOTES YES AND TREASURER DESCHAINE.
YES. YOUR VARIANCE REQUEST HAS BEEN APPROVED.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING TONIGHT.
THANK YOU. AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO A LITTLE LESS FLOODING, PERHAPS BY NEXT YEAR.
[00:50:01]
OH, JUST ONE LAST COMMENT FOR EVERYBODY AND THE PUBLIC.SURE. I KNOW WE'RE STARTING CONSTRUCTION.
WE HAVEN'T AWARDED A CONTRACT YET, BUT IT WILL BE SHORTLY IN THE NEXT SEVERAL WEEKS.
TREE REMOVAL HAS TO OCCUR PRIOR TO MARCH 31ST DUE TO ENVIRONMENTAL CONSTRAINTS.
SO YOU'LL SEE SOME WORK OUT THERE VERY SHORTLY.
AND I WOULD ASK THAT EVERYBODY JUST SLOWS DOWN AND WATCHES OUT FOR ALL OF OUR FRIENDS OUT THERE WORKING AND THOSE WORKERS TO MAKE THEM SAFE AS SAFE AS THEY CAN BE.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TONIGHT.
ALL RIGHT. MOVING ON THE AGENDA TO CASE NUMBER THREE.
LET'S SEE IF I CAN GET MYSELF BACK UP THERE.
THERE WE GO. THAT IS ZBA CASE NUMBER 22-02-16-2 4887 &
[6C. ZBA CASE NO. 22-02-16-2 (4887 & 4893 Dawn Avenue), Dawn Avenue Associates, LLC, 4893 Dawn Avenue, East Lansing, MI 48823]
4893 DAWN AVENUE, DAWN AVENUE ASSOCIATES 4893 DAWN AVENUE EAST LANSING 48823 MR. CHAPMAN GO FOR IT.OK, SO THIS IS A VARIANCE REQUEST FOR MINIMUM LOT AREA AND MINIMUM INTERIOR LOT WIDTH.
SO THE APPLICANT, IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE TOWNSHIP, IS REQUESTING VARIANCES TO CREATE THREE PARCELS THAT ARE UNDER THE MINIMUM LOT AREA OF ONE ACRE AND MINIMUM WIDTH OF 100 FEET AT 4887 & 4893 DAWN AVENUE.
SO THIS LAND DIVISION IS NECESSARY TO CONSTRUCT A PORTION OF THE MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP TRAIL SYSTEM THAT WILL BE LOCATED ALONG THE RED CEDAR RIVER.
THE PROPERTY IS, OR THE TOTAL SITE OF BOTH PROPERTIES IS 2.54 ACRES AND IS ZONED I INDUSTRIAL. SO THE CURRENT CONFIGURATION I'LL PULL UP THE SURVEY IS SHOWS TWO LOTS AND THE NORTH PARCEL IS 1.047 ACRES IN LOT AREA AND HAS TWO HUNDRED AND THIRTY TWO FEET OF LOT WIDTH AN DAWN.
AND ON THE SOUTH, THAT PARCEL IS ONE POINT ONE SEVEN EIGHT ACRES, AND HAS TWO HUNDRED AND FOURTEEN FEET OF LOT WIDTH ON DAWN.
ON THE NORTH PARCEL THERE IS A TWENTY ONE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY EIGHT SQUARE FOOT INDUSTRIAL BUILDING, AND THEN THE SOUTH PARCEL IS A PARKING LOT.
SO THIS PROPOSAL WOULD CREATE THREE PARCELS, WHICH WOULD CONSIST OF THE NORTH, THE SOUTH AND A TRAIL PARCEL.
SO THE NORTH PARCEL WOULD HAVE A LOT AREA OF ONE ACRE AT 1.004 ACRES AND TWO HUNDRED AND THIRTY TWO FEET OF LOT WIDTH.
THE SOUTH WOULD HAVE .885 ACRES OF LOT AREA AND ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY FIVE FEET OF LOT WIDTH. AND THEN THIS NEWLY CREATED TRAIL PARCEL WILL HAVE APPROXIMATELY .65 ACRES AND BE 29.89 FEET OF LOT WIDTH.
AND I'LL PULL UP A TABLE THAT JUST KIND OF SUMMARIZES THE VARIANCE REQUEST ON HERE.
SO WHO IS REPRESENTING THE TOWNSHIP TONIGHT? [LAUGHTER] COME ON DOWN.
YOUNES IS BACK. OK, SO AGAIN, YOUNES ISHRAIDI MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP CHIEF ENGINEER.
I'D LIKE TO GIVE YOU A QUICK HISTORY BEHIND THIS APPLICATION.
WHY WE'RE HERE. AS YOU ALL KNOW, WE HAVE THE LAKE LANSING MSU TRAIL PROJECT MUCH TALKED ABOUT TRAIL PROJECT.
THAT'S ONE OF THE GOALS OF MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP.
AND IN FACT, THIS IS THE TOP TRAIL PROJECT THAT GARNERED THE MOST VOTES FROM THE ENTIRE INGHAM COUNTY WHEN THEY DID THEIR SURVEY, BEFORE THEY CAME IN TO DO THE TRAIL MILLAGE.
SO IT'S A CRITICAL PROJECT NOT ONLY FOR MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP, BUT FOR INGHAM COUNTY AND THE REGION AS A WHOLE BECAUSE IT TIES IN EVENTUALLY TO THE LANSING TRAIL SYSTEM.
THE LANSING RIVER TRAIL SYSTEM, RATHER THROUGH MSU.
AND THIS SPECIFIC PROJECT, THE ONE I'M TALKING ABOUT IN RELATION TO THIS PARCEL IS ONLY PHASE ONE. SO IT'S MSU TO LAKE LANSING PHASE ONE, WHICH WOULD BASICALLY EXTEND FROM HAGADORN ROAD ON RIGHT ACROSS FROM SHAW STREET WITH THE MSU MUSIC BUILDING AND CROSSES THE RED CEDAR RIVER BY THROUGH A BRIDGE.
[00:55:01]
WE HAVE TO PUT A SINGLE SPAN STEEL BRIDGE AND ALONG THE NORTH BANK CONTINUES ALONG THE NORTH BANK OF THE RED CEDAR ALL THE WAY TO PARK LAKE ROAD, INCLUDING CROSSING THIS PARCEL IN QUESTION. SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? ALL THESE PARCELS, I JUST MENTIONED ALL THESE AREAS.THAT AREA IS A LONG, PRIVATE PROPERTIES.
ALL OF THEM, EXCEPT AT THE ENDS.
THOSE ARE PUBLIC ROADS, YOU KNOW? HAGADORN AND PARK LAKE.
SO WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME ONCE WE SECURED THE FUNDING.
AND BY THE WAY, THIS IS FUNDED BY THREE DIFFERENT SOURCES THIS PROJECT, IT'S A THREE MILLION DOLLAR JOB, ESSENTIALLY 1.7 MILLION DOLLARS FROM MDOT, TAP GRANT FUNDS AND NINE HUNDRED AND FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS FROM INGHAM COUNTY TRAIL AND THE BALANCE OF IT THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY THOUSAND FROM MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP PATHWAY.
SO THERE'S A LOT OF PLAYERS IN THIS, AND THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS RIDING ON THIS ACTUAL APPLICATION. THE REASON I SAY THAT BECAUSE AS I MENTIONED THIS, [INAUDIBLE] 12 PRIVATE PROPERTIES THAT WE NEEDED TO GO OUT AND SECURE EASEMENTS OR IN THE CASE OF MSU, THEY GAVE US A LEASE AS OPPOSED TO AN EASEMENT, EXCEPT THE OWNER OF THIS PROPERTY HE WANTED THE TOWNSHIP HE DIDN'T WANT TO GIVE AN EASEMENT.
HE WANTED TO SELL THE PROPERTY FOR AN ACQUISITION.
TO DO THAT, OBVIOUSLY, YOU HAVE TO DO A LOT SPLIT.
WELL TO DO THE LOT SPLIT IT CREATED THIS SITUATION THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH THESE THREE SEPARATE PARCELS THAT DON'T MEET THE CURRENT ZONING REQUIREMENTS.
I GUESS IN A NUTSHELL, THAT'S THE REASON WE'RE HERE.
ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS TO GET US STARTED? I GUESS THE OBVIOUS QUESTION IS WITHOUT THIS VARIANCE, CAN THIS TRAIL BE COMPLETED IN THE WAY THAT WOULD FULFILL THE VOTER, YOU KNOW, DEMAND THE PROJECT, THE FINANCIAL COMMITMENT FROM ALL THESE DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS? CAN THIS PROJECT BE COMPLETED? YEAH, IT WOULD BE VERY HARD FOR THIS PROJECT TO PROCEED, ESPECIALLY AT THIS LATE IN THE GAME. RIGHT. BECAUSE WE'RE UNDER THE GUN TO OBLIGATE THIS PROJECT TO GET THE $1.7 MILLION DOLLARS FROM MDOT.
OK. AND IF WE DON'T, WE ARE ACTIVELY GETTING PERMITS, INCLUDING THIS ONE HERE TO GET ALL THAT PACKAGE. WE ALREADY SENT IT TO MDOT AND THEY MADE THE COMMENTS AND WE'RE READY TO SEND EVERYTHING BACK PENDING APPROVAL OF THIS.
ONE OF THE THINGS WE STILL HAVE SPLIT SIGNED UP SO WE CAN GET THE ACQUISITION FROM THE PROPERTY OWNER.
SO WE'RE READY TO SEND THE RIGHT AWAY DIVISION AND ALL THE RIGHT WAYS IN EASEMENTS BACK TO MDOT. SO YEAH, IT'S VERY CRITICAL THAT WE GET THIS AND THE IMPACT ON THE COMMUNITY AND ON THE COUNTY AND ON THE REGION AS A WHOLE IT'S VERY, VERY, VERY LARGE.
OK. I THINK I WOULD RATHER APPROACH THIS ACTUALLY BY TALKING THROUGH THE CRITERIA BECAUSE I THINK THAT HELPS IN A CIRCUMSTANCE LIKE THIS WHERE IT'S PRETTY, IT SEEMS PRETTY CUT AND DRY, BUT I WANT US TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE BEING THOUGHTFUL ABOUT IT.
CRITERIA NUMBER ONE, BEING UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES EXIST THAT ARE PECULIAR TO THE LAND OR STRUCTURE, WHICH I CAN SEE HERE.
AGAIN, THESE CIRCUMSTANCES NOT BEING SELF-CREATED BY THE TOWNSHIP.
WE'RE WORKING WITH WHAT THEY HAVE HERE AND TRYING TO GET THIS CONNECTING TRAIL GOING THROUGH, WHICH AGAIN, AS AS MR. ISHRAIDI IS THAT RIGHT.
IS THAT CORRECT? OK, I WANT TO MAKE SURE I SAY HIS NAME CORRECTLY.
THANK YOU. AS YOU SO ELOQUENTLY STATED THIS, THIS HAS TO HAPPEN IN ORDER TO FULFILL THESE TRAILS.
CRITERIA NUMBER THREE, STRICT INTERPRETATION AND ENFORCEMENT OF THE LITERAL TERMS AND PROVISIONS OF THIS CHAPTER WOULD RESULT IN PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES.
I SEE AN ALMOST IMMEDIATE, PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY TRYING TO GET THIS DONE WITHOUT.
[INAUDIBLE] ALL OF THE PIECES THAT ARE TIED INTO IT.
THE MONEY FROM MDOT, THE THE MILLAGE MONEY, ALL OF THE FUNDING, THE VOTE OF THE PEOPLE, IT IS NOT BEING ABLE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS WOULD DEFINITELY BE IMPRACTICAL.
PARK LAKE WITHOUT THIS MIDDLE PIECE.
[01:00:01]
YOU DON'T HAVE YOU.YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO CONNECT IT.
IT WOULDN'T BE THE THROUGH LINE FROM LAKE LANSING TO MSU THAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR.
CRITERIA NUMBER FOUR THE ALLEGED PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES, WHICH WILL RESULT FROM A FAILURE TO GRANT THE VARIANCE WOULD UNREASONABLY PREVENT THE OWNER FROM USING THE PROPERTY.
I THINK OH, DID I READ THAT TWICE? NO, I THINK YOU JUST ANSWERED THAT.
AND CRITERIA SO WE CAN MEET CRITERIA NUMBER FOUR CRITERIA.
CRITERIA NUMBER FIVE, GRANTING THE VARIANCE IS THE MINIMUM ACTION THAT WILL MAKE POSSIBLE THE USE OF LAND OR STRUCTURE IN A MANNER WHICH IS NOT CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST.
CARRY OUT THE SPIRIT OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
SECURE PUBLIC SAFETY, AND PROVIDE SUBSTANTIAL JUSTICE.
I THINK WE CAN VERY EASILY AGREE WITH THAT.
CRITERIA NUMBER SIX, GRANTING THE VARIANCE WILL NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT ADJACENT LAND OR ESSENTIAL CHARACTER IN THE VICINITY.
AS WE STATED PRIOR, IN THE PRIOR CASE, I THINK THIS WILL ONLY IMPROVE THAT AREA, AND THIS GIVES THE TOWNSHIP AND THE COUNTY SOMETHING THAT THEY'VE BEEN LOOKING TOWARDS BUILDING FOR SO LONG. CRITERIA NUMBER SEVEN, THE CONDITIONS PERTAINING TO THE LAND OR STRUCTURE ARE NOT SO GENERAL OR RECURRENT IN NATURE AS TO MAKE THE FORMULATION OF A GENERAL REGULATION FOR SUCH CONDITIONS PRACTICAL.
I DON'T SEE THAT HERE, SO WE CAN MEET CRITERIA SEVEN.
AND CRITERIA EIGHT GRANTING THE VARIANCE WILL GENERALLY BE CONSISTENT WITH PUBLIC INTEREST AND THE PURPOSES AND INTENT OF THIS CHAPTER.
ABSOLUTELY ASTOUNDINGLY AGREE WITH CRITERIA NUMBER EIGHT.
SO ON THAT NOTE, I THINK THE ONLY QUESTION I HAVE AND JUST AS A MATTER OF FUTURE THINKING, IS THAT EITHER OF THESE TWO PARCELS ON EITHER SIDE WILL NEED VARIANCES IF THEY'RE BEING BUILT UPON IN SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE.
IS THAT CORRECT? BECAUSE WE'RE MAKING NONCONFORMING PARCELS OR WOULD THAT ? [LAUGHTER] STUMPED THEM? NO, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS.
TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, THEY'RE STILL BUILDABLE PARCELS.
OK. IF YOU CAN MEET THE CURRENT STANDARD, THE END PARCEL IS BUILDABLE IT'S A MATTER OF WHAT YOU WANT TO BUILD ON. RIGHT.
RIGHT. WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH THIS ACTION IS ADDRESSING THE IMMEDIATE CONCERN THAT IS RAISED BY THE SPLIT.
RIGHT. SO OBVIOUSLY, THE SPLIT PARCEL IS ITS OWN THING, HAS TO BE A VARIANCE THAT'S TO BE CREATED BECAUSE IT'S NOT GOING TO MEET THE STANDARD.
WHAT WE'RE DOING IS ADDRESSING THE PROBLEMS THAT WE THEN CAUSED TO THE REMAINDER TO PARCELS.
OK. THEY STILL WILL HAVE, IF THEY WERE TO DEVELOP.
THEY STILL HAVE TO GO THROUGH SETBACKS AND PARKING AND LOT COVERAGE AND DRAINAGE AND ALL THAT JAZZ. YEAH. AND IF THEY HAVE ISSUES, THEN THAT IS A SEPARATE REVIEW.
ALL WE'RE ADDRESSING ARE THE TWO ISSUES RAISED SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE OF THE CREATION OF THE TRAIL PARCEL. SO THEY'RE NOT INHERENTLY NON-CONFORMING.
THEY ARE NOT CORRECT. WE ARE NOT CREATING A NON-CONFORMING PARCEL.
DIRECTOR SCHMITT COMING IN WITH THE KNOWLEDGE.
LOVE IT. ALL RIGHT IN THAT CASE.
NUMBER SIX ALONE, I THINK WOULD CARRY THIS.
OF COURSE, WE NEED TO HAVE ALL EIGHT.
MAKING [INAUDIBLE] INDUSTRIAL AREA, WHICH IS QUITE HONESTLY NOT THE MOST ATTRACTIVE PART OF THE TOWNSHIP. I WAS TRYING TO IMPROVE IT WITH THEIR BREWERY THERE, BUT IT'S STILL NOT A REAL PLACE THAT PEOPLE GO TO SHOW OFF THE TOWNSHIP AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO PUT A TRAIL THROUGH HERE. MAYBE ADDING MORE FOOT AND BIKE TRAFFIC TO THERE WILL ENCOURAGE OTHER DEVELOPMENT THROUGH THERE THAT WOULD BE MORE SCENIC, MORE ATTRACTIVE, CREATE EVEN SOME KIND OF FOOT TRAFFIC OR TRAIL TRAFFIC THERE.
YEAH. WE'RE DEFINITELY ENHANCING THIS PARCEL AND THE SURROUNDING PARCELS WITH THIS TRAIL.
ALL RIGHT. AND THAT NOTE, ANYBODY GOT A MOTION FOR ME.
I MOVED TO APPROVE THE VARIANCES IN ZBA CASE NUMBER 22-02-16-2 4887 & 4893 DAWN AVENUE. SUPPORT.
ALL RIGHT. SUPPORTED BY TREASURY DESCHAINE.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION OR ON THE CASE? ALL RIGHT. AND THAT CASE, WE WILL GO TO A VOTE.
WE LOOK FORWARD TO THIS TRAIL VERY MUCH.
MOVING ON, WE WILL GO TO OUR FINAL CASE OF THE EVENING.
ZBA CASE NUMBER 22-02-16-3 2090 GRAND RIVER.
[6D. ZBA CASE NO. 22-02-16-3 (2090 Grand River Avenue), Johnson Sign Company, 2240 Lansing Avenue, Jackson, MI 49202]
ALL RIGHT, MR. CHAPMAN, TAKE IT AWAY.SO THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A VARIANCE TO INSTALL A WALL SIGN.
[01:05:05]
THIS WALL SIGN WILL BE LOCATED AT 2090 GRAND RIVER AVENUE.THE PROPERTY IS .963 ACRES IN SIZE AND IS ZONED C2 COMMERCIAL AND IS LOCATED AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF GRAND RIVER AND OKEMOS ROAD.
THERE'S AN EXISTING SEVEN FIVE HUNDRED SQUARE FOOT MULTITENANT COMMERCIAL BUILDING, WHICH HAS THREE TENANTS.
THIS PROPOSED WALL SIGN IS FOR NOTHING BUNDT CAKES WHICH OCCUPIES THE WESTERNMOST TENANT'S SPACE OF THE BUILDING, AND ACCESS TO THIS SPACE IS LOCATED ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING. SO OUR ZONING ORDINANCE PERMITS ONE WALL SIGN FOR MULTI-TENANT BUILDINGS FOR EACH TENANT THAT HAS AN INDIVIDUAL MEANS OF PUBLIC ACCESS AND BUILDING FRONTAGE ON A PUBLIC STREET. SO THE SIZE ALLOWED IS THE EQUIVALENT TO ONE SQUARE FOOT FOR EACH LINEAR FOOT OF BUILDING FRONTAGE.
SO THE PROPOSED TENANT SPACE IS TWENTY FOUR OR TWO THOUSAND FOUR HUNDRED FOURTEEN SQUARE FOOT IN SIZE AND HAS THIRTY FIVE LINEAR FEET OF FRONTAGE ON GRAND RIVER AVENUE.
SO BASED ON THAT, THIRTY FIVE LINEAR FEET OF FRONTAGE, THE SITE IS ALLOWED FOR A THIRTY FIVE SQUARE FOOT WALL SIGN.
THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING A 52.57 SQUARE FOOT WALL SIGN ON THE SOUTH FAÇADE FACING GRAND RIVER AVENUE AND IS REQUESTING A 17.57 SQUARE FOOT VARIANCE.
OK, THANK YOU VERY MUCH WOULD THE APPLICANT LIKE TO COME UP AND JUST STATE YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD, PLEASE AND STATE YOUR CASE.
GOOD EVENING, JERRY URGO 3074 WALTON BOULEVARD, ROCHESTER HILLS.
I'M THE OWNER AND THE OWNER AND THE BUILDER, MY SIGN MAN WAS SUPPOSED TO BE HERE.
HE JUST TEXTED ME EARLIER TODAY THAT HE'S NOT GOING TO MAKE IT, SO I AM HERE.
I WAS GOING TO BE HERE ANYWAY, OBVIOUSLY IN SUPPORT.
SO WE'RE NEW TO THE COMMUNITY.
OUR BRAND'S BEEN AROUND TWENTY FIVE YEARS.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH US.
I BUILT MY FIRST ONE IN ROCHESTER HILLS.
THAT'S MY HOMETOWN WHERE I'M FROM, BUT WE'RE ALL SPARTANS.
[LAUGHTER] YEARS AGO, EAST LANSING, WE HAD ALREADY PINNED IT THAT WE WE WANTED TO BE EAST LANSING, OKEMOS. THIS IS WHERE WE WANTED TO BE.
SO HERE WE ARE. WE FOUGHT FOR THAT SPOT, FOUGHT AND FOUGHT.
IT'S HERE. IT'S EVERYWHERE WE WANT TO BE.
THE ISSUE WE'RE RUNNING INTO IS THE SIGNAGE.
WHEN I FIRST CAME DOWN OKEMOS ROAD FROM 96 TO THAT, I KNEW THE AREA, BUT I COULDN'T SEE THE BUILDING WHEN I PULLED UP TO THAT INTERSECTION BECAUSE OF THE TREES.
THE TREES ARE GREAT, BUT THE PROBLEM IN SPRING AND SUMMER, WHEN THEY FILL IN, THEY'VE GROWN. YOU CAN'T SEE THAT BUILDING.
SO THAT'S AN ISSUE TO SEE THE BUILDING AND THE SIGNAGE.
SECOND ISSUE IS OUR NAME, NOTHING BUNDT CAKES, HAS 17 CHARACTERS IN IT.
SO WHEN YOU SPREAD THAT OUT TO FIT THE SIZE, THAT SIGN GETS SMALLER AND SMALLER AND SMALLER. SO YOU GET THE SQUINTING PEOPLE TRYING TO FIND IT LOOKING THROUGH THE TREES.
SO THAT'S KIND OF, IN A NUTSHELL, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.
WE'RE TRYING TO NOT CREATE TRAFFIC ISSUES, PEOPLE TRYING TO FIND US THE STOP THE BRAKE CHECKS I'VE BEEN IN PUBLIC SAFETY 26 YEARS, I'M A FIRE CHIEF, ACTUALLY IN ROCHESTER HILLS, SO I GET THE PUBLIC SAFETY.
YOU HAVE 10 LANES OF TRAFFIC AT THAT INTERSECTION.
YOU HAVE PEOPLE TRYING TO FIND US TRYING TO GET IN THERE.
I JUST, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST THOSE TREES AND OTHER PART OF THE SITE PLAN.
BUT THOSE TREES. I LOVE TREES, BUT THEY DON'T DO ANYTHING FOR THE VISUAL OF THAT BUILDING. SO THAT'S WERE WE ARE AT.
OK? AND WHAT WAS YOUR NAME AGAIN, SIR? JERRY, URGO. URGO? YES. OK, THANK YOU SO MUCH.
MR. URGO. ANYBODY ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS CASE? IF NOT, WE'RE GOING TO GET IN TO BOARD TIME.
MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP HAVE A LOT IN COMMON IN TERMS OF SIZE.
YEAH VERY MUCH. THE DEMOGRAPHICS BOTH HAVE A BIG UNIVERSITY ATTACHED TO THEM.
I WAS BORN AND RAISED IN ROCHESTER HILLS.
I'VE WORKED THERE FOR TWENTY SIX YEARS.
I'M ACTUALLY RETIRING IN ABOUT TWO MONTHS.
SO TO DO THIS FULL TIME, MY WIFE RETIRED.
SHE WORKED FOR MCCOMB COUNTY AS A SOCIAL WORKER.
LIKE I SAID, I'VE BEEN IN THE FIRE SERVICE 26 YEARS IN THE CITY.
I LOVE THE CITY. AND YEAH, WHEN YOU DRIVE THROUGH HERE, THAT'S THEY CALL IT TREE CITY USA, AND THAT'S LIKE DRIVING THROUGH HERE.
SO. AND HOW MANY YOU HAVE YOUR STORE IN ROCHESTER HILLS? THIS WILL BE WHICH NUMBER STORE FOR YOU? THIS WILL BE OUR SECOND ONE. SECOND ONE.
I HAVE A QUESTION, AND YOU MAY BE ABLE TO ANSWER THIS MR. URGO REGARDING THE TREE ISSUE BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN A VARIANCE REQUEST FROM THE PHYSICAL
[01:10:07]
THERAPY LOCATION NOT THAT LONG AGO.AND PART OF THEIR ARGUMENT ALSO WAS THIS MATURE LANDSCAPING AND MY QUESTION WOULD BE IF THE LANDLORD, THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY, IS WILLING TO WORK WITH YOU, ALL TENANTS ON TRIMMING BACK THOSE TREES, WORKING ON SOME ADDITIONAL SIGNAGE, BECAUSE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE TALKED ABOUT IN THAT OTHER CASE AS WELL.
I'M CURIOUS WHAT, WHERE THEY'RE WILLING TO WORK WITH YOU ON THESE ISSUES, BECAUSE I'LL TELL YOU THE SAME THING THAT WE TOLD THEM, WHICH WAS IT'S NOT IMPOSSIBLE TO SEE.
I DO HEAR YOU WHEN THE TREES ARE FILLED IN, IT'S CHALLENGING.
BUT YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT IMPOSSIBLE TO SEE YOU CAN SEE IT.
BUT I DO HEAR YOU WITH ESPECIALLY WITH THE AMOUNT OF CHARACTERS.
ONCE YOU SAID THAT, I WAS LIKE, OH YES, I NOW I GET THE KERNING AND THE YOU KNOW, BEING ABLE TO PROPERLY READ THIS WORD, ESPECIALLY WITH BUNDT IN THE MIDDLE.
SO BUT ANYTHING YOU CAN OFFER AS FAR AS WHAT THE LANDLORD IS WILLING TO WORK WITH OR HELP OUT THE TENANTS IN THAT STRIP BECAUSE NOW IT'LL BE FULL AGAIN.
MM HMM. AND YOU KNOW, TO HELP KEEP THOSE TENANTS, WHAT IS THE LANDLORD WILLING TO DO TO WORK WITH YOU? WELL, THE TREES WERE PART OF THE ORIGINAL SITE PLANNER, SO THE TREES CAN'T BE CHANGED.
SO THEY WERE PART OF THAT INITIAL APPROVED SITE PLAN.
SO THOSE TREES CAN'T BE TOUCHED.
EVEN THERE'S A TREE IN OUR PARKING LOT.
YOU CAN KIND OF SEE IT IN FRONT OF THAT RED CAR THERE.
YEAH, THAT'S AN ISSUE FOR ME BECAUSE THAT THING IS WHEN I WAS LOOKING IN EARLY SUMMER, WE HAD THOSE STORMS COME THROUGH.
IF YOU REMEMBER THAT STORM, I WAS HERE LOOKING AT THAT PROPERTY AND THAT TREE HAD BEEN DUMPING LEAVES. YEAH.
AND IT'S BLOCKED ALL THE DRAINS, SO WATER SLOSHING OFF THE ROOF THAT TREES DROPPING BRANCHES, IT'S ACTUALLY STAINING THE BUILDING FROM THE TREE SHEDDING, I GUESS, IS WHAT THE TREE MAN TOLD ME.
BUT WE CAN'T TOUCH THOSE TREES BECAUSE THOSE TREES ARE THE ORIGINAL SITE PLAN OF THAT BUILDING THAT WAS APPROVED BY THE TOWNSHIP.
OK, SO WE CAN'T TOUCH THE TREES.
SO I GUESS MY CURIOSITY IS FOR STAFF, THOSE TREES CAN'T BE TRIMMED BACK, WERE THEY? GO AHEAD. OH NO.
I MEAN, THEY JUST CAN'T LIKE BUTCHER THEM DOWN TO NOTHING.
THEY CAN'T REMOVE THE TREES. AND THEY CAN'T REMOVE THE TREES.
SO AND I GUESS I WOULD GO BACK TO THE QUESTION WE HAD FOR CHICK-FIL-A.
HAS THERE BEEN ANY CAUSES FOR CONCERN TRAFFIC ISSUES BROUGHT TO THE ATTENTION OF BUILDING DEPARTMENT OR TOWNSHIP POLICE WHERE THIS HAS BEEN A SITE LINE ISSUE OR CREATING ANY KIND OF TRAFFIC OR ACCIDENT PATTERNS THAT WE SHOULD BE AWARE OF? FOR IN TERMS OF ACCESSING THIS SITE? YEAH. NO, NOT THAT I KNOW OF.
NO. I MEAN, I'M SURE THERE'S BEEN SOME AT THE INTERSECTION THERE, BUT THAT'S.
I HAVE A QUESTION FOR DR. SCHMITT.
I KNOW YOU'RE LOOKING AT OUR SIGN ORDINANCE FOR VERY DIFFERENT REASONS REGARDING CONTENT.
YEAH. REGARDING THIS RATIO OF ONE SQUARE FOOT PER LINEAR FOOT OF FRONTAGE, IS THAT COMMON, AMONGST OTHER COMMUNITIES YOU WORK WITH? OKAY. GREAT QUESTION. YOU KNOW, I THINK I THINK YOU SEE A WIDE VARIATION IN WHAT THAT NUMBER IS. THAT CALCULATION IS HOW ALMOST EVERYBODY DOES SIGNAGE, RIGHT.
YOU HAVE TWENTY FIVE LINEAR FEET OF SPACE.
YOU GET ONE OR ONE AND A HALF OR TWO OR I'VE SEEN THREE SQUARE FEET OF SIGN PER LINEAL FOOT. SO EVERYONE GENERALLY DOES THAT CALCULATION THE SAME WAY.
IT'S JUST WHAT THAT MULTIPLIER NUMBER IS.
I WILL SAY THAT I'M USED TO SEEING TWO, BUT IT'S NOT UNREASONABLE.
I THINK THE SITUATION YOU RUN INTO HERE THAT THE MR. URGO POINTED OUT WAS AND KEITH AND I TALKED ABOUT THIS BRIEFLY IS, YOU KNOW, THE LETTERS ARE ROUGHLY THE SAME AS THE OTHER.
YEAH. IT'S THEIR NAME IS REALLY LONG.
[LAUGHTER] AND SO THAT'S THE, YOU KNOW, IT'S TOUGH TO KIND OF PLAN FOR A SITUATION LIKE THAT WHERE YOU HAVE A 17 CHARACTER WORD OR NAME.
I THINK THAT WE ARE, YOU KNOW, I'M NEARING, IF YOU GUYS COULD JUST GIVE ME SIX FREE HOURS, I COULD FINISH THESE THING UP, BUT I'M REAL CLOSE.
IF WE COULD GIVE THAT TO YOU WE WOULD, I PROMISE.
I'M REAL CLOSE TO HAVING A FINALIZED DRAFT.
AND THIS IS SORT OF ONE OF THE LAST COUPLE OF THINGS THAT WE NEED TO HONE DOWN TO TALK TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION ABOUT IS, YOU KNOW, DOES THIS NUMBER STILL WORK FOR US?
[01:15:02]
AND I KNOW THE QUESTION'S COME UP SEVERAL TIMES.AND SO IT'S SOMETHING WE'RE TRYING TO TAKE A GOOD HARD LOOK AT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER RECOMMENDATION WE MAKE IS A GOOD RECOMMENDATION BECAUSE I THINK YOU KNOW WHAT I FOUND IN MY CAREER, ESPECIALLY AS I'VE GOTTEN A LITTLE OLDER AND WISER.
IS THAT MOST OF THESE COMPANIES HAVE GONE THROUGH SUCH EXTENSIVE TESTING AND REVIEW.
IT'S NOT THE OLDEN DAYS WHERE THEY WOULD JUST LITERALLY MCDONALD'S WOULD ASK FOR THE LARGEST GOLDEN ARCHES THEY POSSIBLY COULD.
EVERYBODY KNOWS WHAT THEIR PACKAGES ARE NOWADAYS, AND THEY LITERALLY HAVE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A COMPANY OUT OF WHATEVER STATE THAT GETS THE ENTIRE PACKAGE FOR THE EAST COAST, CHICK-FIL-A OR THE ENTIRE PACKAGE FOR ARBY'S.
AND SO THEY HAVE JUST A STANDARD SET THAT THEY KNOW THIS IS BASED OFF THE SPEED OF THAT ROAD, WHAT THAT SIGN SHOULD BE.
AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SEEING HERE IS JUST THE WORDS REALLY LONG.
SO SORRY I WENT ON A BIT OF A TANGENT THERE.
THE ANSWER IS THE ONE IS ON THE SHORT NUMBER OF WHAT I'VE SEEN HISTORICALLY.
WE APPRECIATE THE TANGENT BECAUSE IT GIVES SOME CONTEXT AS FAR AS WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.
AND I APPRECIATE JUST THE THOUGHT PROCESS OF WHERE THE TOWNSHIP IS HEADED AND WHERE WE SHOULD MAYBE BE THINKING ABOUT WHAT'S APPROPRIATE, MAYBE WHAT'S NOT.
YEAH, WE'VE HAD A LOT OF SIGNS.
[LAUGHTER] SO GOING BACK NINE YEARS WHEN I WAS FIRST APPOINTED TO THE ZBA, WE SAW A LOT OF SIGNS. SO IT'S NOTHING NEW.
AND I KNOW YOU WORKED ON THIS BOARD FOR MANY YEARS.
AND YOU HAVE SEEN FAR MORE THAN I DID.
AND WHEN I MENTIONED A CERTAIN BACK THEN BOARD MEMBER, THE IDEA OF MAYBE ONE WAS TOO LOW.
THAT WAS JUST ABSOLUTE HERESY OVER THERE BECAUSE MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP WAS EXTREMELY PROUD OF IT'S SIGN ORDINANCE, BECAUSE IT KEPT OUR SIGNS FROM BECOMING OBNOXIOUSLY BIG AND GAUDY.
BUT WE'RE NOW LOOKING AT A VERY DIFFERENT PROBLEM IN THE TOWNSHIP ISN'T A BUNCH OF GAUDY SIGNS, IT'S A LOT OF EMPTY STOREFRONTS.
YEAH. I'M NOT SAYING THE TWO ARE DIRECTLY RELATED, BUT THE TOWNSHIP BOARD IS LESS CONCERNED ABOUT SIGNS SIZE RIGHT NOW AS IT IS VACANT COMMERCIAL SPACE.
YEAH. AND I THINK YOU LOOK AT A COMMUNITY LIKE BIRMINGHAM.
OK, I GREW UP IN WATERFORD AND NOT FAR FROM ROCHESTER.
NOT FAR FROM BIRMINGHAM. YOU'VE GOT GREAT DENSITY.
YOU'VE GOT A WALKABLE DOWNTOWN.
YOU CAN SAY WHATEVER THE HECK YOU WANT THERE.
AND PEOPLE WILL FOLLOW YOU AT THE LETTER BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE THERE.
AND IT'S EXTREMELY DESIRABLE COMMERCIAL SPACE.
THAT'S NOT TRUE. YOU KNOW, AS MANAGER WALSH LIKES TO SAY, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A GOOD OFFERING HERE IN MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP, BUT WE'RE NOT AN A-PLUS PLUS, OK? WE'RE A SOLID B IN TERMS OF WHAT WE OFFER TO COMMERCIAL TENANTS, AND WE NEED TO DO THAT.
BUT STOP WALKING AROUND LIKE WE'RE THE VERY BEST AND YOU'RE GOING TO DO WHATEVER THE HECK WE WANT AND YOU DON'T LIKE IT, HIT THE ROAD.
AND THERE HAVE BEEN BOARDS THAT HAVE HAD THAT KIND OF APPROACH BECAUSE WE'VE HAD IN YEARS WHERE WE HAD PLENTY OF COMMERCIAL APPLICANTS, PLENTY OF RESIDENT APPLICANTS AND JUST A QUESTION DECIDING WHO WE'D SAY NO TO.
WELL THOSE DAYS HAVE PASSED, PARTICULARLY ON THE COMMERCIAL SIDE.
AND SO I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE SIGN ORDINANCE AT THE BOARD LEVEL AND IT CAN BE BASED ON DIRECTOR SCHMITT'S RECOMMENDATIONS AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S RECOMMENDATIONS. WE WILL BE IN THE NEAR FUTURE.
BUT I THINK IT'S ALSO FAIR TO SAY THAT THE SIGN ORDINANCE HAS BEEN ONEROUS FOR A LOT OF YOUR APPLICANTS AND A LOT BEFORE THAT.
YEAH, I WOULD DEFINITELY AGREE WITH THAT.
I DO THINK IN THIS CASE, I'M JUST GOING TO JUMP RIGHT INTO UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES BECAUSE I THINK THAT WE WE'VE SAID IT BEFORE AND I KNOW THERE THERE CAN BE OPPOSITION TO THIS. BUT I DO THINK THAT THIS PARTICULAR LOCATION DOES BENEFIT FROM A UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE. NOT ONLY BE IN THE CORNER, I KNOW THAT THERE'S OTHER CORNER LOTS IN THE TOWNSHIP. THERE'S FOUR CORNERS HERE WITH COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS ON THEM.
ALL OF THEM HAVE DIFFERENT ISSUES.
ALL OF THEM HAVE DIFFERENT UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES SIGHTLINES, LANDSCAPING.
BUT THE SPEED OF TRAFFIC THERE, SO I CAN DEFINITELY MEET THAT CIRCUMSTANCE. AND AGAIN, I CAN MEET CIRCUMSTANCES NOT SELF-CREATED AND THEY ARE NOT SELF-CREATED. AND I MEAN, THEY COME ALONG WITH WITH BEING IN THIS PROPERTY.
CRITERIA NUMBER THREE, STRICT INTERPRETATION WOULD RESULT IN PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES.
I'M TRYING TO VISUALIZE AND I WILL SAY I WOULD LOVE TO SEE MR. URGO JUST THAT NOTHING BUNDT CAKE SHRUNK DOWN TO THE SAME SIZE AS THE PAYLESS SIGN TO SEE HOW ILLEGIBLE IT WOULD BE.
[01:20:01]
BECAUSE I CAN SEE THAT AND I KNOW THE PAYLESS SIGN, RIGHT? SO I KNOW WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO SAY, BUT I KNOW THAT IT SAYS FOOTWEAR AND I KNOW THAT I CANNOT READ FOOTWEAR.SO, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE OLD ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT.
[LAUGHTER] I KNOW PAYLESS I NEVER PAID ATTENTION TO THE FOOTWEAR PART. YES, OH, YES.
SO THAT'S JUST WHERE I'M THINKING, I'M GUESSING THE PAYLESS WAS WITHIN THE SIGN RANGE.
WOULD YOU VENTURE TO SAY YES, THAT IS CORRECT.
SO I'M LOOKING AT THE TWO AND I CAN SEE WHERE MAYBE YOU COULD KNOCK A COUPLE OF FEET OFF.
MAYBE THAT WOULD BE THE MINIMUM ACTION, BUT IS IT REALLY CREATING THAT MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE TO THIS VARIANCE? OK, SO YOU WENT DOWN TO.
I WENT DOWN TO FIVE, YEAH, I SKIPPED SORRY.
NO PROBLEM. SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, AS I THINK ABOUT WHEN WE HAVE THIS CONVERSATION ON SIGNS AND OBVIOUSLY ONE VARIANCE DOESN'T HAVE ANY BEARING ON ANY OTHER VARIANCE.
WE TAKE THEM EACH AS THEY COME.
BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, I MEAN, I AM PERSUADED BY THE PUBLIC SAFETY ASPECT OF IT.
I MEAN, IN THE PAST, I'VE ALWAYS BEEN PERSUADED BY THE PUBLIC SAFETY ASPECT OF IT.
YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT TREES THERE THAT IF THEY OWN THEM, THEY WOULD CUT THEM DOWN SO YOU COULD ACTUALLY SEE THEM, BUT THEY DON'T.
AND AS PART OF THE SITE PLAN, THEY CAN'T MOVE THEM AND YOU CAN ONLY TRIM THEM BUT SO MUCH. AND YOU KNOW, NOT TO ADMIT ANYTHING ON THE RECORD, BUT I KNOW HOW FAST I'VE GONE DOWN, YOU KNOW, GRAND RIVER.
IT'S NOT THANK YOU. IT'S NOT LIKE, WE'RE GOING REALLY SLOW GOT, WHAT, LIKE TWO LANES FOUR LANES TO CUT ACROSS, THEN YOU'VE GOT OKEMOS ROAD THAT'S COMING THROUGH THERE.
I'VE GONE PAST WALGREENS, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT PAYING ATTENTION AND THEN REALIZE, OH CRAP, I GOT TO TURN BACK AROUND TO GET TO IT.
SO THIS BEING, YOU KNOW, COMING IN AS SOMETHING NEW, I JUST REALLY CAN SEE THE, YOU KNOW, THE ISSUES. AND IF WE TAKE IN CONSIDERATION EVERYTHING GOING ON WITH CHICK-FIL-A ACROSS THE STREET, YOU KNOW, IT IS A VERY CONGESTED AREA.
SO HONESTLY, I THINK ANYTHING THAT COULD MAKE IT EASIER TO FIND A LOCATION RATHER THAN HAVING TO LOOK IF YOU'RE NOT PAYING ATTENTION OR IF YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW IT'S THERE, WOULD BASICALLY WOULD HELP.
AND SO I THINK NOT GRANTING IT, THAT IS THE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY YOU'RE LOOKING AT, CAUSING MORE CONGESTION, MORE POSSIBILITIES FOR ACCIDENTS THAT ARE NOT NECESSARY.
WELL, AND I'LL BE HONEST, THE I ALSO SEE THE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY OF IN THIS PARTICULAR BRAND. I KNOW WE CAN'T FOCUS ON A PARTICULAR BRAND NECESSARILY, BUT NOT IF YOU'RE NOT FROM THAT AREA AND HAVEN'T BEEN FAMILIAR WITH THE BRAND BEING ABLE TO ACTUALLY LEGIBLY SEE, WHAT ARE WE? WHAT ARE WE? YOU KNOW, WHAT IS IT? I DO THINK THAT THERE'S SOMETHING TO BE SAID ABOUT THAT, YOU KNOW, AND I THINK THAT GOES TO CRITERIA FOUR WHICH IS THE ALLEGED PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES WOULD RESULT IN A FAILURE WOULD UNREASONABLY PREVENT THE OWNER FROM USING THE PROPERTY.
I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE A CHALLENGE.
I THINK IT'D BE A CHALLENGE IF YOU COULDN'T READ IT.
YOU COULDN'T SEE BUNDTS. YOU COULDN'T SEE CAKES.
WHAT ARE WE SELLING HERE? I DO THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE CHALLENGING, AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE DO TRY TO FOCUS ON THE VARIANCE GOING WITH THE BUILDING AND BEING IN PERPETUITY.
BUT I MEAN, I THINK THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THAT ISSUE REGARDLESS OF WHO'S IN THIS BUILDING. YEAH.
WE ARE. SO THAT SAID, WE CAN MEET CRITERIA FOUR AND FIVE.
CRITERIA SIX GRANTING THE VARIANCE WILL NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT ADJACENT LAND.
I THINK THAT WE'VE ESTABLISHED THIS IS NOT A ISSUE OF ADVERSELY AFFECTING RATHER CREATING A BETTER ENVIRONMENT IN THAT CORNER AND LESS OF A TRAFFIC CONCERN.
AND CRITERIA NUMBER SEVEN I THINK WE CAN MEET, WHICH IS THAT IT'S NOT.
I DO, WE ARE KIND OF SAYING IT'S RECURRENT, BUT I THINK THE TOWNSHIP IS AWARE OF IT.
[01:25:01]
AND WE AND DIRECTOR SCHMITT ALREADY ELOQUENTLY STATED WHAT HE WOULD LIKE TO SEE GOING FORWARD. SO I THINK THAT WE WILL LEAVE IT AT THE HANDS OF THE BOARD AND THE PLANNING AND BUILDING DEPARTMENT FOR THAT.YEAH. I THINK ONE THING THAT I ACTUALLY APPRECIATE IS NORMALLY WHEN WE GET THESE REQUESTS IT'S FOR A SECOND SIGN ON THE CORNER, WHICH ALSO, YOU KNOW, I GET, BUT I APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT TO ADDRESS THIS, YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S LIKE, JUST LET ME MAKE THE SIGN A LITTLE LARGER.
YEAH. AND I THINK THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE DEALT WITH BEFORE.
AND FINALLY, CRITERIA NUMBER EIGHT, GRANTING THE VARIANCE WILL BE GENERALLY CONSISTENT WITH PUBLIC INTEREST AND THE PURPOSES AND INTENT OF THIS CHAPTER.
AND I THINK, AS TREASURER DESCHAINE STATED, I THINK THAT THAT DIRECTLY AFFECTS THE PUBLIC INTEREST AND PURPOSES AND INTENT OF THIS CHAPTER TO BRING IN BUSINESS TO THE TOWNSHIP, FEEL THOSE EMPTY STOREFRONTS AND BRINGING THINGS THAT PEOPLE IN OUR TOWNSHIP WANT AND MAKE IT A MORE DESIRABLE TOWNSHIP.
SO I CAN MEET ALL EIGHT CRITERIA.
SO IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THOSE? I JUST HAVE A QUESTION.
GO FOR IT. MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER.
IS ONE OF THESE IN GRAND RAPIDS.
YEAH, A FRIEND OF MINE, SCOTT, HE'S ACTUALLY BUILDING A SECOND ONE.
HE JUST GOT APPROVED FOR A SECOND ONE, SO THERE'LL BE TWO IN GRAND RAPIDS.
OK. DO I HAVE A MOTION? YES, TREASURER DESCHAINE GOT TO IT.
I MOVE APPROVAL FOR APPROVAL OF ZBA CASE 22-02-16-3, LOCATED AT 2090 GRAND RIVER AVENUE.
OK. QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ON THE MOTION.
ALL RIGHT, WE'LL GO TO THE VOTE.
MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER MOTION TO APPROVE.
OK, YOUR VARIANCE HAS BEEN APPROVED.
WE WELCOME YOU TO MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP.
THANK YOU. AND HOPEFULLY WE'LL BE OPENING END OF MAY.
OUR FAMILY'S ALWAYS LIKE TO HEAR WHEN WE DO SOMETHING.
IT'S LIKE, OH, BUT IT'S COMING NOW [INAUDIBLE].
WE VOTED ON THIS. OH MY GOSH, THESE LITTLE BUNDT CAKES ARE AMAZING.
MY HUSBAND WAS JUST LIKE BUNDT CAKES.
THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. HAVE A GREAT EVENING.
THANK YOU. WE WISH YOU LUCK IN MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP.
THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. ON THAT NOTE, DOES ANYBODY NEED A BREAK? ARE YOU GOOD? GOOD TO MOVE FORWARD? WE'VE GOT TWO OTHER SMALL PIECES OF BUSINESS HERE.
ALL RIGHT. WE'RE MOVING RIGHT THEN INTO ELECTION OF 2022 OFFICERS.
[7A. Election of 2022 Officers]
I MOVE THAT THE CURRENT CHAIR REMAINS A CHAIR.SUPPORT. YOU'RE STUCK WITH ME.
OK, WELL, ON THAT NOTE I WILL PUT THAT TO A VOTE.
THE SECOND YES. OK. ALL RIGHT.
SO THAT MEANS OUR CURRENT VICE CHAIR REMAINS THE VICE CHAIR.
HE'S NOT SWORN IN YET, BUT I MEAN, SHE JUST WANTS TO GET OUT OF IT.
SHE JUST DOESN'T LIKE RUNNING THE MEETINGS.
[LAUGHTER] I'M NOT OFTEN GONE.
AND SHE DID A GREAT JOB ANYWAYS.
THEY HAVE THE FASTEST MEETING ON RECORD.
I TRIED TO BEAT IT THE FOLLOWING MEETING.
OK. AND THAT NOTE, THE CHAIR REMAINS AND THE VICE CHAIR REMAINS.
THE VICE CHAIR, MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER SAID YES.
AND TREASURER DESCHAINE SAID YES.
AND VICE CHAIR VOTES TO KEEP THE VICE CHAIR.
YEAH, YEAH, OK, SHE SAYS YEAH, YEAH.
YES AS WELL. AND THE CHAIR SAYS YES AND TREASURER DESCHAINE SAYS YES.
OK, NOW MOVING ON TO THE LAST BIT OF BUSINESS FOR THE EVENING.
[7B. ZBA Criteria Ordinance Update]
I WOULD BE VERY BRIEF.ALL RIGHT. I LIKE BRIEF AND THE CRITERIA WILL BE MORE BRIEF.
[LAUGHTER] [INAUDIBLE]. I HAVE TOLD MY STAFF THE ENTIRE TIME THAT I HAVE BEEN HERE, THERE ARE NO SACRED COWS.
JUST BECAUSE WE'VE DONE IT THIS WAY, IT DOESN'T MEAN WE NEED TO CONTINUE DOING IT THIS
[01:30:02]
WAY. ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS WE LOOKED AT WAS THE ZBA STANDARDS, BECAUSE HISTORICALLY THE MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP ZBA HAS OPERATED WITH STANDARDS THAT ARE OUTSIDE OF THE STATE ENABLING LEGISLATION. OK.I HAVE CONCERNS WITH THAT IN THAT IF YOU WERE TO TURN SOMETHING DOWN BASED ON A CRITERIA THAT IS NOT FOUND IN THE STATE OF THE ENABLING LEGISLATION, IT WOULD PUT US AT LEGAL RISK. WHAT I'M RECOMMENDING IS AS WORKING WITHIN OUR CURRENT LANGUAGE, BRINGING IT AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO ESSENTIALLY WHAT IS IN THE STATE, ENABLING LEGISLATION WHILE STILL TRYING TO MAINTAIN SORT OF THE INTENT OF THE COUPLE OF STANDARDS WE ARE PROPOSING TO REMOVE. SO WE WOULD GO FROM EIGHT TO FIVE.
THERE ARE FIVE IN THE STATE OF THE ENABLING LEGISLATION.
WE ARE LARGELY UTILIZING THAT LANGUAGE, ALTHOUGH WE ARE TRYING TO INCORPORATE, LIKE I SAID, SOME OF THE LANGUAGE IN BLUE THAT YOU SEE STRUCK OUT.
AND THE LANGUAGE IN BLUE IS WHAT IS EXTRANEOUS TO THE STATE.
YES, THAT IS LANGUAGE THAT IS OUTSIDE ENOUGH OF THE STATE ENABLING LEGISLATION THAT I AM NOT COMFORTABLE LEAVING IT AT THIS POINT.
GREAT. SO THIS IS THE PROPOSAL WE HAVE.
WE WILL WE. THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAS INITIALLY SEEN IT HAS NO MAJOR CONCERNS.
WE ARE ASKING IF THE ZBA HAS ANY CONCERNS AND I DON'T NEED THEM RIGHT NOW.
IF YOU WANT TO TAKE IT WITH YOU AND THINK ABOUT IT IN LIGHT OF THE CONVERSATION YOU HAD THIS EVENING, THAT'S FINE.
AND JUST SO YOU KNOW, WE ARE GOING THROUGH A SERIES OF SORT OF WE'RE CALLING THEM QUALITY OF LIFE ORDINANCE CHANGES RIGHT NOW.
THESE ARE ALL I DON'T WANT TO SAY SMALL BECAUSE ALTHOUGH THEY'RE SMALL IN NATURE, THEY'RE FAIRLY MAJOR CHANGES.
THIS BEING ONE OF THEM, YEAH, BUT WE ARE PLANNING ON WE'VE INTRODUCED, SAY, EIGHT OF THEM. I NOW BELIEVE NOW TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
WE'LL BE BRINGING SIX OF THEM FORWARD FOR PUBLIC HEARING IN MARCH.
THIS BEING ONE OF THEM WITH AN EYE TOWARDS HAVING THESE ADOPTED, PROBABLY BEFORE YOUR MAY MEETING IF WE'RE BEING REALISTIC.
I'D LIKE TO SHOOT FOR APRIL, BUT IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO BE IN MAY.
SO NO NEED TO COMMENT THIS EVENING.
IF YOU WANT TO TAKE IT WITH YOU, DIGEST A LITTLE BIT.
THINK ABOUT IT. SHOOT ME AN EMAIL, SHOOT KEITH AN EMAIL, AND WE CAN TRY AND INCORPORATE ANY COMMENTS TO THE EXTENT WE CAN.
BUT LIKE I SAID, WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO TIE THIS DOWN TO THE STATE, ENABLING LEGISLATION AND GET US A LITTLE CLOSER TO THE STRAIGHT AND NARROW.
THAT SOUNDS GREAT. ONE QUICK QUESTION FOR YOU ON THIS.
IS IT SEVEN WOULD JUST BE ELIMINATED? IS THAT THAT'S THE CONDITIONS PERTAINING OR NOT SO GENERAL OR RECURRENT, THAT IS ONE THAT WE GET STUCK ON, THAT WE USUALLY GET PAST BECAUSE WE JUST KNOW THAT WE CAN'T BASE EVERYTHING ON WELL, WE NEED I MEAN, I'M THINKING LAKE LANSING, I'M THINKING SIGNAGE.
I'M THINKING ALL OF THESE RECURRENT CASES.
IS THAT I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE AT SOME POINT SOME WAY AS A BODY TO STILL ADDRESS THOSE RECURRENT.
OK? TO THE EXTENT THAT THAT'S IN THERE, THAT IF YOU HAVE, FRANKLY, IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE THAT'S COME UP MORE THAN ONCE, IF YOU GET TO A SECOND REQUEST, THAT'S NEARLY IDENTICAL.
WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT IT AS TO WHY THIS IS HAPPENING.
HAS THE MARKET CHANGED? HAS THE RESIDENTIAL CONSTRUCTION STANDARDS CHANGED? WHAT HAS CHANGED THAT IS NOW LEADING US TO HAVING VARIANCES COME UP ON A REGULAR BASIS FOR THE SAME QUESTION.
MY GOAL WOULD NEVER BE TO HAVE YOU SEE SOMETHING THREE TIMES.
A SECOND TIME, OK WE NEED TO TAKE A LOOK.
BY THE THIRD TIME, WE'VE GOT A PROBLEM AND WE SHOULD HAVE A FIX IN THE WORKS OR WE SHOULD HAVE HAD THREE DENIALS, RIGHT? BECAUSE THERE'S ALL THAT'S THE OTHER.
THE FLIP SIDE OF THIS IS IT COULD BE SOMETHING THAT IS SO RECURRENT, BUT THAT STAFF AND THE TOWNSHIP BOARD AN THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THE ZBA ARE ALL LIKE THAT IS NOT SOMETHING WE ARE INTERESTED IN GETTING INTO.
RIGHT, RIGHT. AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT GETS TO MY COMMENT PREVIOUSLY THAT AT SOME POINT WE REALLY NEED TO RELOOK AT THE WHOLE LAKE LANSING OVERLAY DISTRICT.
WE'RE TRYING TO ADDRESS THE TWO MAIN ISSUES, BUT IT'S CLEAR THAT THE WHOLE ORDINANCE IS NOT WORKING. YEAH. SO LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT IT.
SO WE'RE GOING TO TAKE TAKE OFF YOUR TWO RECURRENT THINGS AND THEN TAKE A MORE HOLISTIC LOOK. GREAT. GREAT.
ON THAT NOTE, I MEAN, THAT'S AND I I'M GLAD TO SEE THAT GO, TO BE HONEST, AND I'M GLAD TO HEAR THAT THAT'S KIND OF THE HOPE GOING FORWARD TO ADDRESS THOSE THINGS MORE HOLISTICALLY AND LOOK AT THOSE PIECES AS THEY ARRIVE.
I THINK THIS WILL SPEED UP AND IT'LL LESSEN MY NEED TO REHASH ALL EIGHT OF THOSE, EVERY SINGLE CASE. I HAVE TO ADMIT AS A PLANNER, I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU GUYS GOING THROUGH THE STANDARDS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE'VE ONLY BEEN SUED ONCE AND IT WAS BECAUSE MY ZBA DIDN'T LISTEN TO ME AND THEY DIDN'T GO THROUGH THEIR CRITERIA AND DENY THE CASE.
[01:35:01]
YES, WE GOT SUED WITHIN 48 HOURS.GOING THROUGH THE CRITERIA IS NOT A BAD THING.
YEAH. IF YOU'RE HAVING ROBUST CONVERSATION, THAT IS ALWAYS HELPFUL, ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE MOVING TOWARDS A DENIAL.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN TOLD BY THE LAWYERS ON MULTIPLE TIMES.
AND I ALWAYS AND YOU KNOW, AS AS BRIAN BEACHAINE SO ELOQUENTLY TAUGHT US, YOU KNOW, IT DOESN'T HURT. IT KEEPS THINGS MOVING FORWARD.
IT KEEPS US HAVING LIKE A GOAL IN MIND FOR WHERE TO GO WITH THE CONVERSATION.
IT CREATES A RECORD. SO, AND IT CREATES A RECORD.
I LIKE IT A LOT I LIKE THESE SIMPLIFIED RULES.
THIS IS A CITIZEN'S BOARD HERE.
NOT MEANT FOR PROFESSIONAL PLANNERS OR ARCHITECTS IT'S MEANT FOR OUR CITIZENS TO BE ABLE TO SIT ON THIS BOARD AND MAKE FAIR AND ACCURATE JUDGMENT ON THESE REQUESTS.
AND WITH THIS CRITERIA, YOU CAN BRING SOMEONE IN WHO DOESN'T HAVE A ZONING BACKGROUND AND THEY CAN UNDERSTAND THESE RULES AND MAKE WISE, PRUDENT CHOICE BECAUSE OF IT.
WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU.
THAT WILL SAVE US QUITE A BIT.
OK. ON THAT NOTE, IF THERE IS ANYBODY FROM THE PUBLIC THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK, PLEASE DO
[8. PUBLIC REMARKS]
SO NOW.OR YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF, PUT IT ON THE PUBLIC RECORD AND SAY HELLO.
YOU CAN DO A BETTER JOB THAN WHAT I BUTCHERED FOR YOU.
WELL, I KIND OF FEEL BAD NOW BECAUSE I AM A, YOU KNOW, PROFESSIONAL PRACTICING PLANNER.
AND THIS GENTLEMAN JUST SAID, YOU KNOW, THIS BOARD IS NOT MEANT FOR THOSE SPEAKERS] EACH OTHER. I THINK I'M GOING TO RESEND MY APPLICATION HERE, NO.
YOU CAN KEEP US HONEST AND KEEP US FROM GETTING TOO FAR OFF THE RESERVATION, BUT WE ALL SHOULDN'T NEED TO BE PROFESSIONAL PLANNERS.
THAT'S CORRECT. WE APPRECIATE YOUR BACKGROUND, AND WE HAVE HAD JUST RECENTLY TOO.
YEAH WE HAVE. HAVE HAD MEMBERS THAT HAVE GONE ON TO THE TOWNSHIP.
WE WELCOME THE EXPERTISE AS WELL.
SURE, SURE. SO I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GUYS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME OR ANYTHING.
NO SORRY SAY YOUR NAME ONE MORE TIME, TIM.
IT'S PRONOUNCED KOENIG BECAUSE IT'S SUPER GERMAN.
GOT IT. SOMEWHERE DOWN THE ROAD MY FAMILY DESCENDANTS DECIDED TO CHANGE IT AND MAKE IT DIFFICULT. SO, HEY, LITTLE MORE THAN 15 YEARS.
I'M RIGHT NOW TRANSPORTATION PLANNER.
I'VE BEEN DOING THAT FOR A LITTLE MORE THAN 10 YEARS.
AWESOME. BUT I JUST MOVED BACK TO THE AREA.
I USED TO LIVE HERE WITH MY WIFE.
AND IN 2016 I MOVED DOWN TO FLORIDA AND I DID LAND USE AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DOWN IN FLORIDA FOR FIVE YEARS AND I COULDN'T STAND IT.
I MEAN, IT'S GOOD TO KNOW IT WAS DIFFICULT FOR US.
FLORIDA'S A VERY DIFFICULT STATE TO WORK IN, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE OF THE POLITICS AND THE PEOPLE AND A LOT OF RETIREES.
AND IT'S THE FIRST THING I THOUGHT OF WHEN I WALKED IN.
HERE IS GOD. I HOPE THIS ISN'T LIKE THE ROOM WHERE THE ACTUAL TOWNSHIP BOARD MEETS BECAUSE THIS IS LIKE A THIRD OF THE SIZE OF WHAT I'M USED TO.
THE CITY I WORK FOR WAS IN SARASOTA.
IT'S ROUGHLY THE SAME POPULATION SIZE ABOUT 56 OR 57 THOUSAND PEOPLE AND I'VE, YOU KNOW, DONE PRESENTATIONS IN FRONT OF PEOPLE IN FRONT OF TWO HUNDRED TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY WHERE THE FIRE MARSHAL HAD TO KICK PEOPLE OUT.
OH MY GOODNESS. SO IT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT BALLGAME DOWN THERE.
BUT SO I'M KIND OF LOOKING FORWARD TO THE MORE MELLOW SITUATION HERE.
WAY MORE MELLOW. I MEAN, YOU'VE GOT A GOOD INDICATION OF KIND OF HOW WE RUN THROUGH THINGS. WE ALL GET ALONG.
WE RESPECT EACH OTHER'S OPINIONS WHEN WE DON'T AGREE AND LISTEN TO WHAT THE APPLICANT IS SAYING AND ASK A BUNCH OF QUESTIONS.
OH, I THINK YOU ALL DID A VERY GOOD JOB.
I THINK THE CHAIR RAN A PRETTY GOOD MEETING.
YES. AND IT WAS INTERESTING BECAUSE I PUT IN MY APPLICATION BACK ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO NOW I LIVED IN THE CITY OF ROCKFORD ON THE WEST SIDE AND ACTUALLY WAS ON THEIR PLANNING COMMISSION THERE, BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS THERE.
OH GREAT. AND I WAS PROBABLY THE ONLY PLANNER ON THE WHOLE ON EITHER OF THOSE.
YEAH, BECAUSE THEY WERE ALL JUST CITIZENS.
AND I WOULD REALLY GET TICKED OFF AT SOME OF THOSE MEETINGS BECAUSE A LOT OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE ON THERE WERE OLDER AND THEY LIVED IN THE COMMUNITY FOREVER, AND THEY BASICALLY WOULD MAKE THEIR DECISION BASED ON WHO THEY SAW ON THE STANDS.
YEAH. SO I GET UP THERE AND I'D SAY, WELL, I GOT TO, YOU KNOW, I LIKE THE IDEA, BUT I GOT TO DENY YOU KNOW VOTE DENY THIS [INAUDIBLE] BECAUSE I'M, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO PROTECT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. AND THEY'RE GOING, WHAT'S THAT.
RIGHT? AND I WAS LIKE, WELL, WHAT ARE YOU DOING SITTING UP HERE? SO IT'S INTERESTING.
AND YEAH, THERE WAS A LOT OF BUTTING HEADS BETWEEN THE MEMBERS, WHICH DIDN'T MAKE IT VERY NICE. GRANTED, I WAS ONLY ON IT FOR ABOUT TWO YEARS AND I END UP MOVING AND I HAD TO GET OFF IT. SO NO, IT'S I WAS REALLY PLEASED TO SEE HOW YOU GUYS ACTED AND WORKED WITH THE APPLICANTS AND ASKED THE GOOD QUESTIONS AND THE WORK WITH THE STAFF.
SOUNDS LIKE YOUR STAFF'S VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO WORKING WITH THEM AS WELL. YES.
MY WIFE GREW UP HERE AND WENT TO HASLETT HIGH.
AS I SAID. O GOOD. AND I GIVE HER CRAP ALL THE TIME.
LIKE ALL THE WISE ONES ARE THAT'S OK. YEAH.
WE TRY TO BE AS RESPECTFUL AS POSSIBLE TO ONE OTHER LISTENING TO EACH OTHER.
AND I THINK THAT JUST THE WAY THAT QUESTIONS ARISE AND WE'RE ABLE TO HAVE DISCUSSIONS IS ONE OF THE BEST THINGS ABOUT THIS BOARD.
[01:40:03]
AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE'RE ALL JUST TRYING TO HAVE A NICE PLACE TO LIVE.SO AND MR. TREASURER OVER THERE, YOU DIDN'T HAPPEN TO COME FROM THE CATA MEETING, DID YOU? I DID. OK. I THOUGHT YOU LOOKED FAMILIAR.
YEAH. I'M ACTUALLY THE FORMERLY, I GUESS.
I DON'T. I DON'T KNOW HOW, BUT WHEN I GOT HIRED TO TRI-COUNTY, I'M THE FORMAL TRANSIT REP FOR TRI-COUNTY. SO I WORK WITH THE TRANSIT AGENCIES WITH CATA AND.
OK. THERE YOU GO. MORE WITH NOT SO MUCH WITH THE DIRECTOR THERE.
I WORK MORE WITH MATT [INAUDIBLE] AND THEN BUT I WORK WITH ALL THE OTHER TWO AGENCIES, [INAUDIBLE] AND CLINTON TRANSIT. OK, PRETTY MUCH SO.
I THOUGHT YOU LOOKED THERE BECAUSE I REMEMBER YOU HAD A PRETTY GOOD COMMENT ABOUT DELTA TOWNSHIP. I WON'T SAY IT HERE.
I MEAN, IT DOESN'T MATTER THE MEETING'S OVER, BUT [LAUGHTER] SAVE THAT JUICY STUFF FOR THE BOARD MEETING.
I WAS PARTICIPATING ONLINE VIRTUALLY.
ON ZOOM YEAH. AND HE WENT IN TO HIS QUESTION ABOUT AND I WAS LIKE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A VERY GOOD POINT. YEAH. SO THANK YOU. THIS IS A COMMUNITY OF FORTY FOUR THOUSAND PEOPLE.
THEY ARE PROFESSIONAL, BY AND LARGE.
THEY REALLY ANY REASONABLE MILLAGE PUT BEFORE THEM IN THE PAST 20 YEARS THEY'VE PASSED AND THEY EXPECT THE SAME QUALITIES IN THEIR REPRESENTATIVES.
AND WE'VE HAD SOME BOARDS THAT I'VE WITNESSED THAT ACT LIKE A BANANA REPUBLIC UP HERE.
AND THAT JUST SHOULDN'T BE. WE DON'T NEED MEMBERS STAND UP AND POUNDING THE DESK, SAYING THAT SHE WOULD VOTE FOR SOMEONE BESIDES THE PERSON STANDING NEXT TO THEM, OR THEY JUST HAVE MADE IT EXTREMELY PARTISAN PERSONAL AND OFTENTIMES VINDICTIVE.
AND THAT'S JUST NOT THE WAY MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP RESIDENTS LIVE THEIR LIVES, AND THEY NEED A BOARD THAT REFLECTS THEIR VALUES.
AND SINCE THEN, THE PAST FIVE YEARS THIS BOARD HAS PUT INTO PLACE COMMISSIONERS WHO REFLECT THOSE SAME PROFESSIONAL, GENEROUS AND GOOD NATURED YET FAIR QUALITIES THAT WE TRY AND PROJECT TO THE COMMUNITY.
SO, YEAH, WELL, ON THAT NOTE, I'M GOING TO CLOSE PUBLIC COMMENT AND GO TO BOARD MEMBER COMMENTS.
[9. BOARD MEMBER COMMENTS]
AND I'M GOING TO SAY WELCOME TO OUR NEWEST BOARD MEMBER.AND I ALSO WANT TO SAY A QUICK BEST WISHES AND GOOD LUCK TO DAN OPSOMMER, WHO HAS MOVED ON FROM OUR BOARD TO THE TOWNSHIP, WORKING AS THE DEPUTY MANAGER FOR THE TOWNSHIP, WHICH IS FANTASTIC FOR HIM.
AND HE'S BEEN ON THIS BOARD FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS NOW AND HE'S BEEN GREAT TO GET TO KNOW AND HE'S BEEN INVALUABLE AS FAR AS HIS INPUT ON OUR BOARD AND ON THE TOWNSHIP BOARD.
AND I KNOW HIM AS A TRUSTEE AND ALSO JUST GIVE MY DEEPEST CONDOLENCES ON BEHALF OF THE ZBA FOR THE PASSING OF SUPERVISOR STYKA, WHO I HAVE TO SAY IS JUST HE WAS JUST A FANTASTIC GENTLEMAN AND SUCH A KIND PERSON.
SO WARM, SO WELCOMING, SO INCLUSIVE.
AND HE IS ONE OF THE JUST PILLARS OF THE COMMUNITY AND REALLY HAS, YOU KNOW, BEEN PART OF THIS COMMUNITY FOR DECADES AND DONE SO MUCH FOR FIRST THE BOARD OF EDUCATION AND FOR THE TOWNSHIP BOARD.
AND I THINK THE TOWNSHIP HAS REALLY GROWN UNDER HIS SUPERVISION.
AND REALLY, IT'S WITH OUR DEEPEST, DEEPEST CONDOLENCES TO HIS WIFE AND HIS SONS AND HIS GRANDKIDS THAT WE SAY, REST IN PEACE TO SUPERVISOR STYKA.
IS THERE ANYTHING ANYBODY LIKE TO ADD TO THOSE BOARD MEMBER COMMENTS? I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR THAT.
YEAH. TREASURER DESCHAINE GO AHEAD.
TO THE SUPERVISOR HIS LOSS WAS SUDDEN.
THE ACCIDENT WAS JUST A FEW DAYS AGO AND WE WERE ALL HOPING FOR THE BEST.
AND SADLY FOR HIM, IT DIDN'T TURN OUT THAT WAY.
HE LEAVES A REALLY BIG GAP ON THE BOARD.
HE'S BEEN A VERY EFFECTIVE LEADER AND HE COMES FROM A WHOLE CAREER IN PUBLIC SERVICE THAT HE TAUGHT MANY OF US HOW TO BE THE BEST PUBLIC SERVANTS WE COULD BE.
SO WE'LL BE WORKING HARD TO FIND A REPLACEMENT FOR HIM AND ALSO FOR TRUSTEE OPSOMMER SO THE BOARD'S IN A BIT OF A TRANSITION RIGHT NOW.
BUT WE'RE COMMITTED TO CONTINUING TO WORK TOGETHER.
WE'VE BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL IN THE PAST FIVE YEARS AND WE'RE GOING TO AS WELL.
MOST OF US ARE IN THE STATE OF MOURNING OVER THE LOSS OF RON STYKA AND SO AS SOON AS FUNERAL ARRANGEMENTS ARE KNOWN THEY'LL BE ANNOUNCED AND IT'LL REALLY BE A COMMUNITY FUNERAL. IF PEOPLE AREN'T THERE IN PERSON, THEY'LL BE THERE IN SPIRIT BECAUSE RON TOUCHED SO MANY LIVES, AS HAS HIS WIFE, GEORGIA, AND THEIR SONS.
SO IT'S A BIG LOSS FOR THE ENTIRE MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT RON LIKED TO DO WAS TO SAY, YOU MIGHT HAVE GONE TO OKEMOS SCHOOLS,
[01:45:01]
BUT YOU LIVE IN MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP.YOU MIGHT HAVE GONE TO HASLETT SCHOOLS, BUT YOU REALLY LIVE IN MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP.
HE REALLY WANTED THIS ONE, MERIDIAN.
NO. BECAUSE PEOPLE STILL SAY THEY'RE FROM OKEMOS [INAUDIBLE] [LAUGHTER].
HE TRIED. HE DID REALLY TRY REALLY BE PROUD TO BE IN MERIDIAN.
AND THAT'S THE KIND OF PERSON HE WAS BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER, NOT DIVIDING THEM BUT BRING THEM TOGETHER AND FINDING COMMON GROUND.
YEAH. SO WE'LL MISS HIM GREATLY.
THANK YOU. YEAH, THANK YOU, TREASURER DESCHAINE FOR SHARING THAT.
ALL RIGHT. WELL, ON THAT NOTE, I THINK THIS MEETING IS OFFICIALLY ADJOURNED.
PERFECT. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH.
THANK YOU.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.