[00:00:04]
WAS IT LAST THURSDAY, MARK? YEAH, LAST THURSDAY.
I'M GOING TO GIVE DON JUST ANOTHER COUPLE SECONDS HERE, BECAUSE I'M SURE HE WILL BE HERE, SO. IT STARTED JUST AS SOON AS I SEE THAT NAME POP UP.
ALL RIGHT, GOOD EVENING, EVERYONE.
[1. CALL MEETING TO ORDER]
IT IS 6:30 AND I WILL NOW CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER.TODAY IS THE 28TH OF APRIL, 2021 AND THIS IS THE MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS MEETING. I'M GOING TO BEGIN THE MEETING WITH EACH OF OUR BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SAYING THEIR NAME AND WHERE THEY ARE ATTENDING REMOTELY FROM FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD.
MY NAME IS ALEXIA MANSOUR AND I'M ATTENDING REMOTELY FROM OKEMOS, MICHIGAN.
MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER? MONIQUE FIELD-FOSTER I'M ATTENDING REMOTELY FROM OKEMOS, MICHIGAN.
TRUSTEE OPSOMMER? WHERE DID HE GO? OK, I'M GOING TO COME BACK TO HIM.
MEMBER NEWMAN? HELLO AND WELCOME. HELLO, MY NAME IS ALEX NEWMAN ATTENDING REMOTELY FROM EAST LANSING, MICHIGAN. MEMBER KULHANEK? HELLO THERE. HEY, THERE, DON KULHANEK ATTENDING REMOTELY FROM OKEMOS, AND I'LL COME SWING BACK AROUND TO TRUSTEE OPSOMMER? MY APOLOGIES, SORRY, DAN OPSOMMER ATTENDING REMOTELY FROM THE CITY OF LANSING.
ALL RIGHT, NOW THAT WE HAVE THAT LITTLE BIT OF DIGITAL PAPERWORK OUT OF THE WAY, WE WILL MOVE INTO THE AGENDA AND I'M LOOKING FOR A MOTION TO APPROVE.
[2. APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA]
DO I HAVE A MOTION? MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES.OK MOTION TO APPROVE FROM MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER.
SECONDED BY TRUSTEE OPSOMMER? AND ANY QUESTIONS OR CONVERSATION REGARDING THE AGENDA? OK, THIS IS A VOTE TO APPROVE THE AGENDA FOR TONIGHT'S MEETING, MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER? YES. TRUSTEE OPSOMMER? YES, MEMBER NEWMAN? YES, MEMBER KULHANEK? YES, AND THE CHAIR VOTES YES.
THE AGENDA IS APPROVED, SO WE WILL MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM, WHICH IS APPROVAL OF THE
[3. CORRECTIONS, APPROVAL AND RATIFICATION OF MINUTES]
MINUTES FROM APRIL 14TH, 2021 FEELS LIKE IT WAS JUST YESTERDAY, DOESN'T IT? DO I HAVE MOTION TO APPROVE? SO MOVED.ALL RIGHT, MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM APRIL 14TH, FROM TRUSTEE OPSOMMER.
DO I HAVE SUPPORT? HEY, I'LL SUPPORT.
THE CHAIR SUPPORTS AND ANY DISCUSSION REGARDING THE MINUTES OR ANYTHING THAT NEEDED CORRECTION? ANYBODY NOTICED? ALL RIGHT, THEN WE WILL GO TO A VOTE TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM THE 14TH . TRUSTEE OPSOMMER? YES.
MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER? YES. MEMBER NEWMAN? YES. AND MEMBER KULHANEK? YES.
OK, THE MINUTES FROM APRIL 14TH WERE APPROVED.
WE HAVE NO COMMUNICATIONS ON OUR AGENDA AND NO UNFINISHED BUSINESS.
SO WE WILL MOVE STRAIGHT INTO NEW BUSINESS.
[6A. ZBA CASE NO. 21-04-28-1 (Allied Signs, Inc.), 33650 Giftos, Clinton Township, MI, 48035]
WHICH BRINGS US TO ZBA CASE NUMBER 21-04-28-1 ALLIED SIGNS 33650 [INAUDIBLE] CLINTON TOWNSHIP, MICHIGAN, 48035.[00:05:02]
AND WITH THAT, I WILL TURN IT OVER TO MR. CHAPMAN. OK, SO THIS IS ZBA, NUMBER 21-04-28-1 ALLIED SIGNS REQUESTING A VARIANCE TO INSTALL A TWENTY EIGHT SQUARE FOOT WALL SIGN ON THE EAST BUILDING FACADE AT 2090 GRAND RIVER AVENUE. SO THE VARIANCE REQUEST IS FROM SECTION 866873C, WHICH STATES, IN THE CASE OF MULTITENANT STRUCTURES, ONE WALL SIGN SHALL BE PERMITTED FOR EACH TENANT HAVING AN INDIVIDUAL MEANS OF PUBLIC ACCESS UP TO A SIZE EQUIVALENT TO ONE SQUARE FEET BREACH OF ONE LINEAL FOOT OF BUILDING FRONTAGE OCCUPIED.THIS IS AN OVERVIEW OF THE SITE.
IT'S LOCATED AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF OKEMOS ROAD AND GRAND RIVER AVENUE.
SO THE PROPERTY IS POINT 0.963 ACRES IN SIZE AND IS ZONED C2 COMMERCIAL.
ON SITE, THERE'S A SEVENTY FIVE HUNDRED SQUARE FOOT MULTITENANT COMMERCIAL BUILDING, WHICH CURRENTLY HAS THREE TENANTS.
SO THE PROPOSED WALL SIGN IS FOR ATHLETIC OR PHYSICAL THERAPY, AND THEY ARE LOCATED IN THE EASTERNMOST AND IT'S THE BASE OF THE BUILDING AND ACCESS TO THAT SPACE IS LOCATED ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING.
SO THE TIME AND SPACE IS THREE THOUSAND AND ELEVEN SQUARE FEET IN SIZE FOR.
THEY HAVE 40 LINEAR FEET OF FRONTAGE ON GRAND RIVER AVENUE.
SO THEY ARE PERMITTED 140 SQUARE FOOT WALL SIGN ON THAT SOUTH FACADE.
A SIGN PERMIT WAS APPROVED BACK IN SEPTEMBER OF 2020 TO INSTALL THE EXISTING TWENTY EIGHT SQUARE FOOT ATHLETICO PHYSICAL THERAPY SIGN ON THAT SOUTH FACADE.
SO ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE BUILDING, THE VARIANCE REQUEST IS PROPOSING TO INSTALL A SECOND TWENTY EIGHT SQUARE FOOT SIGN.
THIS SIDE OF THE BUILDING IS SEVENTY SEVEN FEET, EIGHT INCHES IN LENGTH.
BUT THIS SIDE OF THE BUILDING DOES NOT CONTAIN ANY FRONTAGE ON A PUBLIC STREET OR CONTAIN A PUBLIC ENTRANCE.
SO THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A VARIANCE TO INSTALL A SECOND WALL SIGN ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE BUILDING. THAT IS NOT A FRONT FACADE.
AND THIS IS THE OVERVIEW THAT SHOWS WHERE THE SIGN WILL BE LOCATED ON THE BUILDING.
OK, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAPMAN. IS THERE A REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE APPLICANT HERE TONIGHT THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS CASE? IF SO, WE JUST REQUEST THAT YOU WOULD PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD BEFORE YOU BEGIN.
IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE ONE PERSON IN THE ATTENDEES, BUT I'M NOT SURE.
SO IF THEY COULD RAISE THEIR HAND IF THEY'RE HERE.
YOU HAVE BEEN PROMOTED TO PANELIST, AND IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO JUST STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD, AND YOU'RE WELCOME TO ADD ANYTHING THAT YOU WANT TO ADD TO MR. CHAPMAN'S PRESENTATION.
IF YOU'RE TALKING, WE CAN'T HEAR, YOU MIGHT BE MUTED.
LOOKS LIKE THE TECHNICAL DIFFICULTY THAT'S BEEN GOING AROUND TODAY HAS HIT HIM.
SO HE'S GOING TO CALL IN. YEAH, IT'S BEEN BAD ALL DAY.
[00:10:04]
IT SEEMS LIKE HE IS GOING TO TRY TO CALL IN.SO WE WILL HAVE HOMTV ON STANDBY TO GET THEM IN FOR US.
YOU KNOW, CONSIDERING WE'VE BEEN MEETING REMOTELY FOR OVER A YEAR, WE'VE BEEN PRETTY LUCKY, SO, [INAUDIBLE] THAT EVERYONE'S PATIENCE AND.
WITH TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES AS THEY ARISE.
LOOKS LIKE WE PICKED UP SOMEBODY ELSE IN THE PARTICIPANTS.
THAT MIGHT BE HIM. YES, HOPEFULLY THIS IS OUR, THERE WE GO.
YES, IS THIS MR. NUTLEY? YES, I'M SORRY, I WAS HAVING TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES, MY COMPUTER WAS FOR SOME REASON KEEPING ME ON MUTE.
THAT'S JUST FINE, WE CAN HEAR YOU NOW IF YOU JUST WANT TO STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD AND GO AHEAD AND ADD ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE TO ADD TO MR. CHAPMAN'SPRESENTATION.
OK, JAMES NUTLEY WITH ATHLETICO PHYSICAL THERAPY.
AND MY ADDRESS IS 4815 WEST 183RD COURT, CRESTWOOD, ILLINOIS, 60418.
AND AS I SAID, I'M A DIRECTOR OF PROJECT MANAGEMENT FOR ATHLETICO AND I APOLOGIZE FOR THE TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES THAT JUST ENDED UP HAVING TO GO THROUGH MY PHONE.
SO YEAH, WHAT WE'RE ASKING IS FOR A SIGN ON THE END CAP.
OBVIOUSLY WE LEASE THE SPACE BECAUSE IT IS A GREAT LOCATION ON THE HARD CORNER THERE OF GRAND RIVER. AND BASICALLY THOUGH WHAT WE FOUND IS AS YOU'RE TRAVELING DOWN GRAND RIVER ROAD, THE TREES, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GUYS HAVE A POSSIBILITY OF GOING TO GOOGLE MAPS, BUT IF YOU DO A STREET VIEW AND KIND OF ACT LIKE YOU'RE DRIVING DOWN GRAND RIVER, YOU'LL NOTICE THAT THE PYLON SIGN IS PRETTY MUCH BLOCKED BY ALL THE TREES IN THE PARKWAY.
AND THEN EVEN THE SIGN ON THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING IS FAIRLY WELL BLOCKED AND NOT VISIBLE AS YOU'RE COMING DOWN WESTBOUND GRAND RIVER.
SO WHAT WE'RE HOPING TO DO IS GET APPROVAL TO PUT A SIGN ON THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING, WHICH WAS A LITTLE MORE VISIBLE AND GIVES YOU A LITTLE MORE TIME TO TURN INTO THE DRIVE BECAUSE THE DRIVE IS ALSO ON THE FAR EAST END OF THE PROPERTY.
SO IF SOMEBODY SEES A SIGN AT THE LAST MINUTE, IT CAN ALSO BE A SAFETY CONCERN AND TRIES TO SLOW DOWN THE TURN IN TO THAT DRIVE.
YOU KNOW, IT CAN POTENTIALLY CAUSE FROM AROUND COLLISIONS.
BUT THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ASKING IS KIND OF PUT A SOMEWHAT SMALLER SIGN THAT'LL BE MORE VISIBLE AS YOU'RE GOING EAST, WESTBOUND, MY BAD, ON GRAND RIVER.
AND, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY IT'LL PREVENT ANY ACCIDENTS AND, YOU KNOW, LET PEOPLE KNOW WHERE WE'RE AT A LITTLE SOONER THAN LATER WHEN THEY'RE ALREADY PAST US OR NOT SEE US AT ALL.
SO DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? YES, WE APPRECIATE YOUR INPUT AND PLEASE STAY ON THE PHONE AND STAY NEARBY IN CASE WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR YOU FROM THE BOARD, OK? OK, AND I THINK OUR SIGN SUBCONTRACTOR IS GOING TO BE ON, WAS GOING TO BE ON AS WELL.
I DON'T KNOW IF, THEY MAY BE HAVING THE SAME TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES THAT I WAS HAVING BECAUSE I WAS SURPRISED HE DIDN'T SPEAK UP.
I DON'T HAVE ANYBODY IN THE ATTENDEES AREA, SO WE WILL KEEP AN EYE ON THAT.
AND ANYBODY THAT DOES JOIN IS FREE TO RAISE THEIR HAND.
AND WE CAN HAVE THEM ADDED AS THE PANELISTS SO THEY CAN JOIN IN THE DISCUSSION.
BUT FOR NOW, IF THERE'S NOTHING, IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING FURTHER TO ADD AT THIS MOMENT, WE'LL GO AHEAD AND GET INTO OUR DISCUSSION.
SO THANK YOU, MR. NUTLEY. AND WITH THAT, IF THERE'S NOBODY ELSE AND SINCE I DON'T SEE ANY OTHER ATTENDEES WAITING, WE'RE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND GET INTO BOARD TIME.
SO HANG TIGHT, MR. NUTLEY, AND WE WILL CALL ON YOU IF WE HAVE QUESTIONS, OK?
[00:15:04]
OK, THANK YOU I APPRECIATE YOUR ABSOLUTELY. ALL RIGHT.ANYONE HAVE ANY THOUGHTS OR QUESTIONS FOR STAFF OR THE APPLICANT THIS EVENING TO GET STARTED? ALL RIGHT, I SEE MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER, VERY TENTATIVELY.
IT'S NOT SO MUCH A QUESTION, IT'S PROBABLY A COMMENT.
YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD A LOT OF OF VARIANCE APPLICATIONS ON DUAL SIGN LOCATIONS.
BUT IF I RECALL, ALL OF THOSE HAVE BEEN IN SITUATIONS WHERE THERE'S PUBLIC ACCESS ON BOTH SIDES. AND THIS IS NOT THAT.
THIS IS, YOU KNOW, AN ISSUE AS FAR AS WANTING TO PUT A SIGN, BUT THERE'S THERE'S NO ENTRANCE THERE. THERE'S NO PUBLIC ACCESS THERE.
SO I'M HAVING A LITTLE BIT OF PROBLEMS WITH THIS ONE AS FAR AS THE NEED FOR IT. PART OF THAT, I GUESS, GOES TOWARDS YOU KNOW, I DRIVE DOWN GRAND RIVER ALL THE TIME AND I KNOW EXACTLY WHERE THAT BUILDING IS AND I KNOW WHERE ATHLETICO IS.
I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM BECAUSE IT'S A BIG SIGN THAT IF I'M RECALLING SO I KNOW EXACTLY WHERE IT IS. AND I JUST, AS FAR AS GOING THROUGH THE CRITERIA, I CAN'T MAKE THE SAME AS MUCH AS I DEFINITELY RESPECT AND HEAR WHAT MR. NUTLEY WAS SAYING AS FAR AS THE TREE LINE AND WANTING TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S NO TRAFFIC ISSUES.
I DON'T NECESSARILY SEE THE SAME SAFETY, PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES THAT I DO.
WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT A BUILDING THAT HAS PUBLIC ACCESS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BUILDING WHERE WE HAVE MADE THOSE DECISIONS BEFORE.
AND I ACTUALLY THINK THE PLANNING COMMISSION WAS GOING TO LOOK AT THE ORDINANCE IN THOSE PARTICULAR AREAS.
SO THAT'S AS I WAS READING THROUGH THIS, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I WAS WAS FALLING ON THIS WAS. YOU KNOW, AND THE OTHER PIECE, EVEN WHEN I LOOK AT NUMBER ONE AS FAR AS UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES, I'M KIND OF LIKE, WELL, EVEN IN THE MAP, IT KIND OF LOOKS LIKE I'M ALL OF THE OTHER BUILDINGS THAT ARE ALONG GRAND RIVER.
AND I THINK THAT MIGHT EITHER BE MCDONALD'S OR TACO BELL OR I CAN'T REMEMBER WHICH BUILDING IT IS.
THAT WAS IN THAT MAP THAT WE SAW THAT KIND OF LOOKED EXACTLY THE SAME WHERE IT'S LIKE YOU'VE GOT AN ENTRANCE ON ONE SIDE, THERE'S JUST BASICALLY GRASS ON ANOTHER.
SO I HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF DIFFICULTY ON FINDING THE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES AND THIS CIRCUMSTANCE AS WELL.
SO I AM DEFINITELY OPEN TO HEAR OTHER ARGUMENTS ON THIS.
BUT THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I'M LANDING.
THANK YOU, MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER.
I WILL SAY THAT I AM NODDING MY HEAD THROUGH THE WHOLE YOUR WHOLE STATEMENT BECAUSE THOSE WERE MY THOUGHTS. I DID DRIVE PAST TODAY AND I DO FEEL WHAT MR. NUTLEY WAS SAYING ABOUT THE TREES WHERE PANERA HAS PUT IN THEIR KIND OF LANDSCAPING IN THE FRONT THERE. BUT.
THIS SIGN, I FEEL LIKE THE SIGNS ARE NEXT TO EACH OTHER, SO I DON'T KNOW IF ANY OF THE REST OF YOU SAW THAT CORNER, BUT WHERE THE FRONT ELEVATION SIGN IS AND THEN WHERE THE, WHICH WOULD BE SOUTH FACING AND WHERE THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING SIGN, THE EAST FACING SIGN WOULD BE THERE ALMOST NEXT TO EACH OTHER.
SO AS YOU'RE DRIVING, I HAD A HARD TIME ENVISIONING, IF YOU COULD SEE ONE, HOW YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO SEE THE OTHER.
I DIDN'T HAVE THE THE VISUAL BLOCKAGE OF THE TREES ON MY DRIVE.
THAT BEING SAID, I DO COMPLETELY AGREE.
WE HAVE HAD QUITE A BIT OF THESE LATELY.
I MEAN, I CAN THINK OF JUST THREE IN THE PAST YEAR IN THIS GENERAL CORRIDOR.
I KNOW THAT, AGAIN, WE DID TALK TO MEMBER HENDRICKSON ABOUT THIS BEING A PRIORITY FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION. SO AS WE GO FORWARD, I DON'T THINK THAT THIS PARTICULAR I DO THINK THAT WE HAVE LANDED ON THIS THIS DOUBLE ENTRANCE, DOUBLE ACCESS ROAD SCENARIO BEING
[00:20:05]
TRICKY, AND I THINK THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S AWARE OF THAT.SO I DON'T FIND EVEN REVIEW CRITERIA SEVEN TO BE ABLE TO , YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK THAT THIS THIS PARTICULAR CASE IS THAT GENERAL, I DON'T KNOW, I'M HAVING A HARD TIME WITH THE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY.
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS ONE? YEAH, YOU SOUND JUST I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THE BUSINESS CASE, MR. NUTLEY [INAUDIBLE], BUT I YEAH, THERE ARE A HANDFUL OF CRITERIA THAT I JUST YEAH, I DON'T SEE THEM MEETING.
AND IT'S NOT JUST, YOU KNOW, ONE STICKY POINT THAT MIGHT BE INTERPRETED IN SEVERAL WAYS.
IT'S I FEEL LIKE THERE ARE SEVERAL, SO.
IT'S KIND OF WHERE I'M AT. OK, APPRECIATE THAT INPUT, MEMBER NEWMAN.
ANYONE ELSE HAVE THOUGHTS? TRUSTEE OPSOMMER, GO AHEAD.
BUT YES, I THINK, THANK YOU TO THE CHAIR, MARK AND KEITH, WHEN WE LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF THE SITE, WE DO SEE THAT 2014 ZBA REQUEST FOR THE WEST SIDE OF THE BUILDING.
FOR A SECOND SIGN. ASIDE FROM THE FACT THAT IT'S ON THE WESTERN FACING BASE OF THE BUILDING AND THIS APPLICATION IS FOR THE EASTERN FACING SIDE, ARE THERE ANY OTHER VARIATIONS OR DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THOSE APPLICATIONS OR ARE THEY RELATIVELY SIMILAR? WOULD THIS BE UP ON THAT FASCIA BEFORE IT KIND OF CUTS OFF AND TURNS TO CINDER BLOCK? YES, SO IT WAS LIKE IN THE EXACT SAME SPOT, BUT ON THAT WESTERN SIDE OF THE BUILDING, AND THAT WAS FOR PAYLESS SHOES AND IT WAS ON THAT SAME LIKE OVERHANG THAT WAS UP THERE.
I DON'T REMEMBER THE SIZE OF THE SIGN EXACTLY, BUT, YEAH.
OK, THAT'S HELPFUL, AND THAT'S A RECENT DECISION [INAUDIBLE] ABOUT SEVEN YEARS AGO.
SO I'M ALSO HAVING TROUBLE HERE, ONE OTHER SITE CONDITION THAT I'M CURIOUS ABOUT.
IS THERE A MONUMENT SIGN FOR THE THREE TENANTS? AND ARE THEY ELIGIBLE FOR A MONUMENT SIGN? IF NOT, I BELIEVE THERE IS, ISN'T THERE? KEITH? YEAH, YEAH, THERE'S A MONUMENT SIGN THERE.
SO IT'S OUT ON GREEN RIVER? YEAH. THAT WOULD BE OUT OF ON THE CORNER, RIGHT, OF GRAND RIVER AND OKEMOS, CORRECT? LET ME PULL UP THE AERIAL HERE.
ONE SECOND, IF I MAY, I DON'T KNOW IF I'M MUTED, BUT THERE IS LIKE A PYLON SIGN.
UH, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN SEE IT.
IT'S A HIGHER SIGN THAT'S ACTUALLY BLOCKED BY THE TREES AS WELL.
MR. NUTLEY? I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE IN OUR MINUTES, SO MR. NUTLEY HAS LET US KNOW THAT THERE'S A PYLON SIGN, WHAT WE WOULD ALSO CALL A MONUMENT SIGN THAT IS OUT TOWARDS THE CORNER.
WHEN KEITH IS DONE SHARING, I DID PULL UP THE GOOGLE STREET VIEW.
YOU CAN SHARE YOUR SCREEN. YEAH, LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THAT IF WE CAN.
SO GIVE ME JUST ONE SECOND HERE.
OK, CAN EVERYONE SEE? SO THIS IS THE WESTERN [INAUDIBLE] DIRECTION AND THIS WOULD BE LOCATED RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE DISCOUNT TIRE STORE.
SO THIS IS WHAT A MOTORIST WOULD SEE.
IT WON'T LET ME SHIFT TO THE RIGHT HAND LANE.
BUT THIS IS WHAT A MOTORIST WOULD SEE ROUGHLY IN THE LEFT HAND WESTBOUND LANE.
SO, YEAH, THE MONUMENT SIGN WASN'T, YOU COULDN'T SEE IT, BUT I DO SEE THAT THE FACE OF THE BUILDING VISIBLE.
I JUST HAD MOVED UP TO THE INTERSECTION TO LOOK AT THE MONUMENT SIGN.
YES, I AM HAVING A LOT OF TROUBLE FINDING THE [INAUDIBLE].
IT IS RIGHT THERE ON THE CORNER.
IT'S NOT, OK, SO MARK AND KEITH, THIS MONUMENT, THAT'S NOT REALLY A MONUMENT SIGN, YEAH, IT'S A PEDESTAL. YOU KNOW, IT'S SITTING ON A POST.
[00:25:01]
WAS THAT GRANDFATHERED? IS OUT OF COMPLIANCE AND NOT GRANDFATHERED OR COULD IT BE MOVED? IT, IF IT IS MOVED, THE LEADING EDGE OF THE SIGN, HAS TO BE 10 FEET BACK OF THE STREET RIGHT-OF-WAY LINE SO WHETHER IT'S OKEMOS ROAD OR GRAND RIVER AVENUE, IT COULDN'T BE CLOSER THAN 10 FEET.IT'S ALLOWED TO BE A MINIMUM OF, WELL, MAX, I SHOULD SAY, TO TWENTY FIVE SQUARE FEET.
AND IF IT IS A PYLON SIGN, IT CAN BE UP TO A HEIGHT OF 16 FEET.
AND THEY CAN HAVE AS MANY TENANTS AS THEY CAN FIT ON THAT.
SO IF I COULD SHARE MY SCREEN ONE MORE TIME WITH THAT CONTEXT OF WHAT MARK POINTED OUT, I'M JUST GOING TO DO MY OWN SCOTT HENDRICKSON IMPERSONATION, BUT I'M WONDERING ABOUT THIS BUMP OUT IN THIS ISLAND AND WHAT CAPACITY WE MIGHT HAVE TO IMPROVE, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE BUSINESS OWNER AND WHAT THE APPLICANT IS SEEKING TO DO.
BUT WITH THAT SIGN, I DO GET THE POINT WITH PANERA, BUT THIS IS THE ONLY MATURE TREE HERE. THEY DO HAVE SOME NEW PLANTING, BUT.
THE MONUMENT OR THE SIGN, IF YOU PUT IT BACK, WOULD BE CLOSER THAN THIS MATURE TREES, SO I THINK WE COULD GET SIGHTLINES.
SO THAT WAS MY THOUGHT, GIVEN THE SITE CONDITIONS AND THE VERY RECENT PRECEDENT THAT THE ZBA SET. I MEAN, IT'S TOUGH.
YOU KNOW, I EMPATHIZE WITH THE APPLICANT AND WE HAVE HAD DISCUSSIONS ABOUT GETTING THE SPEED REDUCED HERE, AND THAT WOULD HELP BUSINESSES, CERTAINLY IF WE COULD GET A LITTLE BIT MORE TRAFFIC COMING THROUGH THIS AREA, PEOPLE FLOW THROUGH PRETTY QUICKLY.
BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT THAT SIGN AT THAT LOCATION IS NECESSARILY THE FIX.
AND I WORRY ABOUT THAT PRECEDENT FOR ALL THE OTHER STRIP MALLS IN THIS C2 AND C3 AREA.
SO I THINK THAT COULD BE THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER SID\TE CONDITIONS WITH THE SAME NATURE.
THAT COULD COME INTO PLAY AT THAT POINT.
SO THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS AND I'LL TURN IT BACK OVER TO THE CHAIR.
I COULDN'T AGREE MORE THAT I MEAN, EVEN AS WE GET INTO THE VARIANCE CRITERIA, THE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE NOT THERE BECAUSE WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS THAT THAT SEVERAL THERE ALL ALONG THAT GRAND RIVER CORRIDOR THERE WILL LOOK AT THIS AND SAY, HEY, WAIT, WE NEED TO SIGN ON THE SIDE. I DO FEEL LIKE THAT COULD OPEN UP QUITE A BAG OF WORMS THERE THAT SHOULD BE TAKEN CARE OF INSTEAD WITH PLANNING OR WITH THE TOWNSHIP BOARD.
SO I DO FIND MYSELF STRUGGLING TO MEET QUITE A FEW OF THESE CRITERIA ALREADY.
I DO LIKE THE IDEA AND THINK THAT WHEN WE GET INTO MINIMUM ACTION, RETHINKING THAT MONUMENT SIGN AS A FORM OF SUBSTANTIAL JUSTICE FOR THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE.
BUT I DON'T SEE THAT THE SIGN ON THE EASTERN FACADE IS THAT MINIMUM ACTION THAT WILL SOLVE THIS ISSUE. SO I'M OPEN TO HEARING ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR WE CAN JUST GET INTO THE CRITERIA IF YOU ARE ALL WILLING PARTICIPANTS.
BUT CHAIR MANSOUR, WE DO HAVE A GENTLEMAN, JIM FIELDS, IN THE ATTENDEE SECTION FOR THIS HAND RAISED.
[INAUDIBLE] HI, MR. FIELDS, IF YOU'D LIKE TO STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD. THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF YOU WANT TO ADD TO THIS CONVERSATION.
AND HOPEFULLY WE DON'T HAVE THE SAME ISSUE.
MR. FIELDS, IF YOU'RE THERE, YOU ARE MUTED AND WE'RE NOT HEARING YOU.
ALL RIGHT. IS THAT, DID IT UNMUTE ITSELF NOW? YES, YOU CAN STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD AND THEN WHATEVER YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD TO THE COVERAGE. YES, JIM FIELDS, 1439 WARRINGTON, MOUNT CLEMENS.
AND I WAS TRYING TO LOG IN AND I GET STUCK IN YOUR QUEUE AND IT DIDN'T LET ME IN UNTIL NOW. SO, YEAH, I MEAN, THE PRESENTATION WAS BASED ON, YOU SEE THE VISIBILITY.
I WAS ABLE TO SEE THE DISCUSSION ON THE TREES BLOCKING THE WAY IN THE POSITION OF THE
[00:30:01]
SIGN. SO THERE'S NOT REALLY MUCH MORE I CAN ADD OTHER THAN THE SPEED LIMIT, WHICH YOU'RE WELL AWARE OF AND IN THE BLOCKAGES WITH THE VEGETATION AND THE GROWTH.SO I JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW I MADE IT.
I'VE JUST BEEN BATTLING WITH THIS THING, LOGGING IN, AND IT'S JUST CRAZY.
AND NOW YOUR MUTED. THERE YOU GO.
MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP WITH TECHNICAL ISSUES TODAY, I KNOW WE HAD SOME EARLIER, YES, SO WE APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE AND PLEASE STAY NEARBY AND WE'RE JUST GOING TO GET INTO OUR VARIOUS CRITERIA.
ALL RIGHT. LET'S GET INTO OUR VARIANCE CRITERIA.
WITH CRITERIA NUMBER ONE, BEING UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES EXIST THAT ARE PECULIAR TO THE LAND OR STRUCTURE THAT ARE NOT APPLICABLE TO OTHER LAND OR STRUCTURES IN THE SAME ZONING DISTRICT. YES, I'M SORRY, MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER? I WAS LIKE, I JUST HAVE ONE QUICK QUESTION.
GOING BACK TO WHAT TRUSTEE OPSOMMER WAS MENTIONING AS FAR AS THE SIGN, THE MONUMENT SIGN AND RELOCATING THAT.
WHAT IS THE PROCESS THAT THEY'D HAVE TO GO THROUGH IN ORDER TO ACCOMPLISH THAT IF THAT WAS AN OPTION AVAILABLE TO THEM? THEY WOULD NEED A SIGN PERMIT FOR THAT, AND ONE OF THE THINGS THEY WOULD HAVE TO SHOW US THE LOCATION OF WHERE THEY WERE GOING TO LOCATE THE SIGN SO THAT IT COULD BE SETBACKS.
AND THEN WE'D ALSO NEED TO SEE THE SIZE OF THE SIGN.
AND IF THEY ARE GOING TO PUT IT SOMEWHERE OUT A PYLON AND RAISE IT UP, THEN WE WOULD NEED IT ALL THE HEIGHTH. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT THEY WOULD DO OR THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY OR BECAUSE I TAKE IT THAT SOMEONE HAS ALL THREE TENANTS ON IT, THOUGH.
HOW DO YOU GO ABOUT? [INAUDIBLE] HAVE TO PROBABLY WORK WITH THE OWNER IF THEY'RE GOING TO MOVE THE FREE STANDING SIGN TYPICALLY ON SIGN PERMITS.
IT'S THE SIGN COMPANY THAT COMES IN FOR THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY OR AN APPLICANT TO APPLY. THAT ANSWERS MY QUESTION.
SO I WOULD ASK, I GUESS THIS THIS OPENS UP ANOTHER QUESTION FOR ME, FOR EITHER MR. NUTLEY OR MR. FIELDS.
IS THAT SOMETHING THAT IS THAT HAS BEEN CONSIDERED OR TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION AT ALL TO DO A OR MOVE THE MONUMENT SIGN TO A BETTER SITE LINE? OR IS THAT SOMETHING THAT GOING FORWARD COULD BE A POSSIBILITY REGARDING THIS? TO KIND OF SOLVE THIS PROBLEM FOR ATHLETICO? AND FOR ALL THE TENANTS IN THIS STRIP MALL? I THINK THAT SIGN WAS, CAN YOU GUYS HEAR ME OK? YES, WE CAN HEAR YOU. GO AHEAD.
OK, I THINK THAT SAYING IS PROBABLY GRANDFATHERED FROM THE PAST TENANT AND WOULD BE THE LANDLORD WHO PROBABLY DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF INTEREST IN SPENDING MORE MONEY SINCE HE HAS, YOU KNOW, A CENTER THAT'S RELATIVELY FULL.
I DON'T THINK THERE ARE ANY VACANCIES ANYMORE AT THIS POINT.
SO I SERIOUSLY, HAVING BEEN A LANDLORD IN MY PAST CAREER, I SERIOUSLY DOUBT HE'D HAVE THE INTEREST IN RELOCATING THAT FOR US AND MAKING IT LOWER.
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S KIND OF A TALL SIGN, TOO, THAT'S BLOCKED, SORT OF LIKE COMING WESTBOUND. SO IT DOES HAVE DECENT VISIBILITY, AS I RECALL, COMING EASTBOUND.
SO THE LIKELIHOOD OF HIM WANTING TO SPEND, I DON'T KNOW, THE OTHER GYM COULD PROBABLY TELL YOU MORE THAN I COULD. AS FAR AS THE COST OF THAT, I'M GUESSING EIGHT TO TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS WHEN IT'S ALL SAID AND DONE BY THE TIME THEY RUN POWER TO A BASE AND ALL THE DETAILS THAT YOU WOULD HAVE REQUIRE.
SO, YOU KNOW, THE GOOD NEWS IS WE DO HAVE A GOOD PANEL ON THAT SITE.
SO I APPRECIATE YOUR CONSIDERATION.
THANK YOU, MR. NUTLEY. I GUESS I DO HAVE.
JUST AGAIN, TRYING TO HELP SOLVE THE PROBLEM WITHOUT AND IF WE'RE NOT ABLE TO MEET THE REVIEW CRITERIA, THIS IS, I RECALL.
THIS FROM ANOTHER CASE WE HAD NOT TOO LONG AGO.
AND STAFF CAN HELP ME WITH THIS ONE.
IF THEY, THE BUILDING HAS A WINDOW FRONTAGE, THEY CANNOT PLACE A SIGN ON THE WINDOW THAT IS ALSO CONSIDERED A WALL SIGN, IS THAT CORRECT?
[00:35:03]
NO, THEY CAN HAVE A WINDOW SIGN IN ADDITION TO THE WALL SIDE.WINDOW SIGNS CANNOT COVER MORE THAN 40 PERCENT OF THE SURFACE AREA FOR A WINDOW.
SO THEY COULD HAVE A SIGN ON THE EASTERN FACADE AND A SIGN IN THE WINDOW OF THE SOUTH FACADE, AND THAT WOULD BE.
THAT WOULD NOT REQUIRE A VARIANCE? WELL, RIGHT NOW WE'RE TALKING AND THEY HAVE AN EXISTING WALSH SIGN ON THE SOUTH SIDE FACING GRAND RIVER. SO IF THEY WANTED TO PUT IN A WINDOW SIGN, THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED.
RIGHT. BUT IF THEY REMOVED THE SOUTHERN FACADE.
ENTRANCE ON THAT EASTERN SIDE, SO YOU'D HAVE TO GRANT A VARIANCE TO HAVE THE SIGN ON THAT SIDE. ALL RIGHT.
THAT THAT HELPS. THANK YOU FOR CLEARING THAT UP.
THAT WAS. THINKING OF THINKING CREATIVE WAYS TO GET AROUND THIS FOR THEM, BUT EITHER WAY, IT WOULD REQUIRE A VARIANCE TO HAVE A SIGN ON THAT ELEVATION.
I MEAN, IT SOUNDS LIKE IF WE HAD WINDOWS ON THAT EASTERN ELEVATION, WE COULD DO A SIGN IN THE WINDOW, BUT WE DON'T [INAUDIBLE].
SO THANKS FOR TRYING TO BE CREATIVE, THOUGH.
ALL RIGHT. I'M GOING TO GET BACK INTO THE TO THE CRITERIA THEN IF NO ONE ELSE HAS ANYTHING, ANY OTHER CREATIVE SOLUTIONS? OR STOP ME WHILE I GO THROUGH.
ALL RIGHT. BACK TO CRITERIA ONE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES.
I UNFORTUNATELY DO NOT FIND THAT I CAN MEET CRITERIA ONE, WHICH KIND OF MAKES THE REST OF THE REVIEW CRITERIA MOOT, BECAUSE IF THESE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES DON'T EXIST, THEN I DON'T MIND THAT WE CAN PROCEED THROUGH AND GRANT THIS VARIANCE.
SO I AM WILLING TO HEAR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES.
BUT BEING THAT IT'S A MULTITENANT SPACE ON A CORNER, WE HAVE A LOT OF THOSE IN MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP. IT DOES NOT HAVE A SECONDARY PUBLIC STREET ACCESS.
WHILE THESE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE NOT SELF CREATED, I DON'T FIND THEM TO BE UNIQUE, SO.
ANY OTHER ANYONE HAVE THOUGHTS OR A MOTION? I CAN GO THROUGH THE REST, BUT I DON'T THINK WE CAN'T MEET ONE OF WE'RE KIND OF AT A IMPASSE. IF WE CAN'T MEET ONE, THEN I MEAN, WE'VE GOT TO MEET ALL OF THEM.
SO I MOVE TO DENY THE VARIOUS REQUEST FOR ZBA CASE NUMBER 21-04-28-1 FOR ALLIED SIGNS INCORPORATED ADDRESS 33650 [INAUDIBLE] CLINTON TOWNSHIP, MICHIGAN 48035.
OH, THANK YOU, I HEARD THE VOICE, I DIDN'T SEE THE HAND.
SUPPORT FROM TRUSTEE OPSOMMER.
ANY DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION TO DENY THE VARIANCE? DON, YOU'VE BEEN QUIET TONIGHT.
I'M FINE. I'VE BEEN QUIET BECAUSE EVERYBODY'S BEEN DOING SO WONDERFULLY.
I ESSENTIALLY AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN SAID.
I LIKE EVERYBODY HERE, I THINK DRIVE THE STREET SEVERAL TIMES A DAY AND I'M WELL FAMILIAR WITH THIS CORNER AS WE ALL ARE.
AND AND I AGREE WITH YOUR STATEMENTS WITH REGARD TO CRITERIA ONE, SEVEN, AND I'M SURE SOME OTHER CRITERIA THAT I DON'T THINK THE APPLICANT CAN MEET.
AND SO THOSE THOSE ARE MY COMMENTS AND THAT I DO INTEND TO SUPPORT THIS MOTION.
THANK YOU. IT JUST NICE TO HEAR YOUR VOICE.
AND IN THAT CASE, WE WILL GO AHEAD AND GO TO A VOTE.
THIS IS A MOTION TO DENY THE VARIANCE REQUEST FOR ZBA CASE NUMBER 21-04-28-1.
MEMBER FIELD-FOSTER? MOTION TO DENY, YES.
TRUSTEE OPSOMMER? YES. MEMBER NEWMAN?
[00:40:03]
YES, TRUSTEE KULHANEK? YES, AND THE CHAIR VOTES YES.UNFORTUNATELY, GENTLEMEN, THE GYM'S YOUR VARIANCE REQUEST HAS BEEN DENIED.
I WILL SAY THAT I DO HOPE THAT BOTH THE TOWNSHIP BOARD AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION ARE, YOU KNOW, TAKING THIS MATTER VERY SERIOUSLY, BOTH ON THE SPEED LIMIT THERE AND ON SIGNAGE FOR THAT FOR THAT PARTICULAR ZONING DISTRICT.
I, UNFORTUNATELY, WE CANNOT MEET THE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE CRITERIA.
BUT I DO THINK THAT IF BOTH OF THOSE BODIES ARE TAKING THOSE MATTERS INTO CONSIDERATION, THAT THIS COULD BE SOMETHING FAIRLY SOON FOR ATHLETICO TO TAKE A LOOK AT AGAIN AND SEE IF THEY CAN WORK WITH THE TOWNSHIP BOARD ONCE THOSE THINGS ARE PLANNING AND BUILDING DEPARTMENTS. ONCE THOSE THINGS HAVE BEEN SET INTO MOTION.
SO WE DO REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME COMING IN AND YOUR PATIENCE WITH THE TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES. AND HOPEFULLY WE WON'T HAVE TO HEAR FROM YOU SOON BECAUSE YOU CAN GO THROUGH THE PLANNING AND BUILDING DEPARTMENT TO ADDRESS THOSE NEEDS.
SO THANK YOU FOR COMING TONIGHT, GENTLEMEN.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION.
OK. AND LET'S SEE, BASED ON OUR AGENDA, WE DO NOT HAVE ANY OTHER BUSINESS, SO I WILL OPEN THE FLOOR FOR PUBLIC REMARKS.
IF ANYTHING, ANYBODY ELSE WOULD LIKE TO BOYCOTT TONIGHT'S CASE OR ANYTHING ELSE FOR ANYTHING ELSE REGARDING THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS.
WE DO HAVE ONE, SOMEONE IN THE ATTENDEES AREA, IF YOU'D LIKE TO SPEAK FOR THE PUBLIC COMMENTS, YOU'RE WELCOME TO RAISE YOUR HAND AND WE WILL PROMOTE YOU TO A PANELIST AND WE WILL ALLOW HOMTV TO GIVE OUR PHONE NUMBER HERE.
SO IF ANYONE AT HOME WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK, THEY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY AS WELL.
ANYONE PARTICIPATING VIA COMCAST, HOMTV.
21 CAN USE THE TELEPHONE NUMBER(517)349-1232 IF THEY WISH TO.
AND THAT NUMBER'S (517)349-1232 .
ALL RIGHT IN THAT CASE, I WILL GO AHEAD AND CLOSE PUBLIC REMARKS AND OPEN BOARD MEMBER
[9. BOARD MEMBER COMMENTS]
COMMENTS IF ANYONE HAS ANYTHING THEY'D LIKE TO SHARE.I WILL JUST SAY AS THE CHAIR AND FOR THE REST OF US, WE SAY CONGRATULATIONS TO MEMBER HENDRICKSON AND HIS FAMILY ON THE ARRIVAL OF THEIR NEW LITTLE ONE LAST WEEK.
CAN'T WAIT TO HEAR MORE ABOUT IT.
AND I'M SURE HE WILL BE VERY SLEEP DEPRIVED FOR THE NEXT COUPLE OF MEETINGS.
SO WE MIGHT NOT SEE HIM FOR A WHILE, BUT WE DO WELCOME HIM BACK WITH OPEN ARMS WHEN HE IS ABLE TO HAVE COHERENT THOUGHTS, YOU KNOW, AS ALL NEW PARENTS STRUGGLE WITH.
BUT I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SAY, JUST AS WE STATED EARLIER, AND I GUESS I JUST WOULD LIKE TO SAY IT MORE FORMALLY AS CHAIR OF THE BOARD, THAT SOME OF THESE ISSUES THAT COME UP AND WE KIND OF DISCUSS THIS A LITTLE BIT AT OUR LAST MEETING WHEN WE HAVE THESE KIND OF RECURRING THEMES WITH SOME OF THESE APPLICATIONS THAT.
I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'RE AT A POINT WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE A FORMAL NOTIFICATION, BUT I CERTAINLY HOPE THAT I KNOW THAT MEMBER HENDRICKSON IS AS.
CHAIR OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND TRUSTEE OPSOMMER.
I WOULD HOPE AS WELL WE'LL TAKE THOSE BACK, THOSE THOUGHTS BACK TO THEIR BOARDS AND DISCUSS WHAT NEEDS THOSE ZONING DISTRICTS HAVE.
AND, YOU KNOW, RECONSIDER SOME OF THESE WAYS THAT WE CAN HELP BUSINESSES IN MERIDIAN TOWNSHIP BE SUCCESSFUL WITHOUT NEEDING ADDITIONAL TIME, MONEY AND ENERGY COMING THROUGH THIS BOARD PROCESS.
HOW CAN WE STREAMLINE THAT? WHAT NEEDS TO BE TAKING A LOOK AT WHETHER IT'S SPEED, WHETHER IT'S ACCESS TO PROPER SIGNAGE, WHETHER IT'S SIGHTLINES, THINGS LIKE THAT.
THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY OUR PURVIEW, BUT I KNOW THAT THERE ARE SOME OTHER BOARDS THAT CAN
[00:45:01]
HANDLE THOSE ISSUES FOR US.SO I HOPE THOSE THINGS ARE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION.
AND WITH THAT, I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO SAY.
SO I'M GOING STOP TALKING. ANYBODY ELSE THAT WAS USED TO SAY? IF NOT, I THINK THAT IS IT, ALTHOUGH I DO HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION.
WE DO HAVE SOMEBODY HERE THAT IS RETIRING VERY SOON.
WILL WE SEE YOU OUR NEXT MEETING, DIRECTOR KIESELBACH? I'M WITH THE TOWNSHIP UNTIL THE END OF MAY.
SO ANY CASES IN MAY YOU HAVE, I'LL PROBABLY BE HERE FOR THEM.
EXCELLENT. THAT IS GREAT NEWS.
I DIDN'T WANT TO SAY GOODBYE TONIGHT.
SO I DO HEAR THAT WE MAY HAVE A COUPLE AT OUR MAY 14TH SCHEDULED MEETING.
ALL RIGHT. WELL, IN THAT CASE, WE WILL SEE ALL OF YOU, INCLUDING DIRECTOR KIESELBACH NEXT ON MAY 14TH. OUR NEXT MEETING.
AND WITH THAT, I WILL CLOSE YOUR COMMENTS AND ADJOURN THIS MEETING.
THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING. EVERYBODY HAVE A GREAT.
BYE.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.